biketony

After reading about airless tires in various bicycle forums, I took the plunge and bought a set for my bicycle (a KHS Urban-X) and a 16" tire for my B.O.B. trailer. I was tired of flat after flat after flat, thinking that a somewhat harsher ride was better than flat after flat... As it turned out, the 'ride' with the Nu-Teck tires was fine. I had two other problems: incredible slickness and equally incredible pedaling effort. The fellow at Nu-Teck suggested rubbing the tires with kitty litter (not used kitty litter!) to remove the silicone that remains on the tire from the manufacturing process. Yes, this did help, but the tires were still too skittish-and this was on dry pavement. Suddenly, it was not fun to ride my bike. To be clear, I use my bike like a pick-up truck. I don't mind pulling a laden trailer-I do this often. However, with the airless tires it wasn't merely a 'little less speed' or a 'little more effort', it was a LOT more effort; I was working to go downhill. To anticipate the questions, I made absolutely sure that nothing was rubbing, and I made sure that the tires were not rotating somewhat independently of the rims.

I really do applaud the airless tire manufacturing attempt. It's too easy to snipe at folks who are interested in trying something different. My opinion (based upon this experience) is that the technology just isn't there yet. And it most likely will be there soon. I AM keeping the 16" tire on the trailer; that seems to work out ok. Ironically, that was my original idea: get an airless tire for the trailer, so as not to need to have another spare tube on board.

My LBS put a pair of Serfas tires (26 x 1.5) on my bike this morning. The joy is back.

CliftonGK1

It sounds like you've had the similar experience that I've read about from everyone using airless tires (any brand.) Once they're on (which can be quite a chore) it feels sluggish and slippy.
I'm not sure why airless manufacturers can't use their compound for the airless inside section of the tire and bond or heat weld an over-casing of a better gripping compound for the outer tread of their tires.

nashcommguy

What size and psi rating are your nu-tecks? I've got a set on the way and the OWNER called me to suggest I upgrade from 90 to 110 rated psi. No charge. I said, "ok, do it." I run 700x28mm kenda kwests w/tuffys @ 95 psi. I'm getting 110 psi, 700x35mm solid tires for exactly the same reason. Flats, flats and more flats. Were they difficult to mount? How many miles did you put on them, etc.?

CB HI

Heard that statement before; about 15 years ago!

banerjek

Anyone considering solid core tires should consider Schwalbe Marathon Plus (not just regular marathons). Nothing can be flat proof, but those stand head and shoulders above the rest. They give a good ride and good traction. They are very heavy, but they don't slow you down that much.

biketony

The tires I had were 26 x 1 3/8, with an equivalent psi of 50-60. I did not put many miles on the tires (less than 10); I had them on for only a few days, and my experience (again, MY EXPERIENCE, I am not slamming anyone, anything, or making general statements that I can't back up) was such that I could not stand to have them on my bike. As far as getting them on my bike, that was easy with the installation tool. Now, I have read comments from people who really liked airless tires, and had positive reports. I envy them. I DO find the tire on my trailer to work fine, although I only used it for one brief errand which was less than a 2 mile round trip.

jfaust97

I would be interested in trying some airless tires before I buy them...
Would you willing to let me try/rent them from you before I commit to spending the dough and possibly be disappointed?

Thanks
Jeremy Faust

Redrom

I think the psi is the culprit. I'm still in the testing phase with mine (27 x 1 3/8 from airfree.com). First I tried 90 psi but they felt slow and mushy like they were 60 psi. They said on the website that rider/load weight is a factor with the ride of tires from this material and that the psi equivalence ratings were for people weighing up to 180 lbs. I'm right around that, so I asked to upgrade to 120 psi and they sent 130 psi no charge as an exchange. While I haven't been able to put many miles on them yet, the initial tests feel like exactly what I was hoping for.

I'd recommend that before giving up, try a higher psi if available - max it out if you're carrying an additional load besides yourself. Personally, I'd expect a slow & mushy ride on 50 psi of any tire, period.

nashcommguy

+1 for the psi being the culprit.

My pneumatics are Kenda Kwest 700x28mm w/Tuffys, Zefal 10mm rim strips mounted on Sun CR-18 presta rims. The tubes are under sized @ 18-25mm to allow rooom for the Tuffys. Have been running them overinflated to 95 psi. The Nu-Tecks are 700x38mm @ 110 psi.

Just tried the Nu-Tecks for the first time yesterday. The mounting process went as well as one could expect. Got the tire in place by using a couple of cable-ties strapped around the rim and tire. Then a dish soap/water solution applied w/a soaked sponge to the inside of the tire and rim. Enough for lubrication, but not enough to drip all over the place. Placed the mounting tool on the axle(s) and tightened the skewer until the tool couldn't move laterally. Held the tire between my feet and knees w/t starter area(where the cable ties were attached) parallel w/t hub. Slipped the plastic part onto the rim and began turning the rim/tire away while pulling the tire lever towards me. It's important to make sure the tire 'seats' onto the rim properly, so having a rubber mallet on hand would be a good idea. Once you start, keep slow steady pressure w/t lever. It looks like it'll never make it, but the tires are surprisingly flexible. Had to 'work' the tire once it went on, but was able to get it(them) seated w/o alot of trouble.

When going for my first test run the differences between the Nu-tecks and pneumatics showed up right away. Turning right on blacktop after riding straight to the end of my gravel driveway the sensation was one of the tire slipping out of the rim, though it didn't. My immediate thought was, "I see why people don't like them". Continued my test run up and down my street making sharp turns and doing short climbs standing up. Stops, starts, quick turns(like when you avoid glass or other debris) and tuck position descends. Decided they 'feel' different, but really needed to go for a 20 miler for a true test.

Embarked on the test ride in full gear...minus the pump, tubes, tire levers, patch kit. It was about 6 PM, 75 degrees and dry road conditions, very little wind. Went on one of my standard, short rides w/some minor climbs/descends. Saw a few other cyclists and had to curb an urge to stop and inform them re my tubeless tires...managed to resist the temptation and simply waved. At the turnaround point is a long mild descend after turning right off the roadway. While approaching back I saw another cyclist go by from right to left. He was about my size and down on the drops. When turning onto the road behind him he had about a 1000-1500 ft lead. Had about 8 miles to see if I could catch him...I didn't. Worked hard to close the distance to about 500 ft in 3.5 miles...then my taillight fell off @ about 20-22 mph. It was a gift, so I just couldn't leave it. Wasn't trying to compete just test the limits of the tires in focused, group-ride type conditions.

So, here's my conclusion: The jury's still out. While I think the concept is great and I'm glad I got them they definately are more squirelly than pneumatics. The feel is similar to they way pneumatics act when the road is wet and the tires are a little underinflated. When rolling straight they're fine, but any adjustment has a very different sensation from standard tires. My experience was one of having to 'work' the whole time as the rolling resistance doesn't allow for any long descends in tuck position. Hardcore roadies would, probably hate them and one can imagine they'd wear on you when doing a century...metric OR standard. I can also imagine they'd be iffy on a 40-45 mph descend. Will find out today as I'm going to do a 50.

Sorry if this post comes off like a blog. There's been alot of discussion re tubeless tires and I'm trying to communicate my impressions from the perspective of a utilicyclist, DIY mechanic, hardcore Fred and wannabe roadie. I'll post back, but my overall impression so far is they're great for urban commutes 15 miles and under. If you use a hybrid or mtb and run your psi @ 60-75 get Nu-Tecks rated @ 85-105 psi, if possible. If you're a speed merchant and run 25mm @ 90-95 psi get at least 110 psi , maybe 130 like the above poster. Hit them w/some 400 grit sandpaper before riding the first time and that should take care of the 'slick' feel. Don't expect them to act like pneumatics when you ride because they wont.

Bklyn

Some guy named Sheldon writes:

Airless Tires

Of all the inventions that came out of the bicycle industry, probably none is as important and useful as Dr. Dunlop's pneumatic tire.

Airless tires have been obsolete for over a century, but crackpot "inventors" keep trying to bring them back. They are heavy, slow and give a harsh ride. They are also likely to cause wheel damage, due to their poor cushioning ability. A pneumatic tire uses all of the air in the whole tube as a shock absorber, while foam-type "airless" tires/tubes only use the air in the immediate area of impact.

Airless tire schemes have also been used by con artists to gull unsuspecting investors. My advice is to avoid this long-obsolete system.

nashcommguy

Yeah, I've seen the quote by Sheldon Brown before. He's entitled to his opinions and is truly an informative source. Have been refering people to his website for years. Have learned and applied many of his suggestions to successful conclusion in doing rebuilds, upgrades, wheelbuilding, etc. In this case w/the Nu-Tecks, however I completely disagree. They ARE heavier and slower, but don't give a harsh ride. The tires I ordered are oversized @ 38mm, but are not much bigger than the 28mm I've been running. Have done 70 miles over the last 2 days and though I had to work the whole ride both times I'm happy w/my level of dissatisfation.

In the past there may have been 'con-artists' operating in the bicycle industry, but I would be hesitant to include the folks at Nu-Teck in that group. $100.00 is pricey, but when you're riding at night, loaded and bundled up in 0-20 weather the last thing you'd want is a flat.

So far I've only tried them on my unloaded, steelframe roadie in good weather on dry roads. I've got a commuter-day tourer w/rack, bags, lights, etc and will swap the wheels over and see how they respond under load. My concern isn't the feel of the tires so much as if/when you pop a spoke how do you get the mother's off to replace it? On an extended, non-supported tour of Ireland and the UK a few years ago the main problem I had was the number of flats...14 in 7 weeks according to my journal. Also, broke 3 spokes...all ds, rear. Have been using Mr. Tuffy's for years, but STILL get punctures from time to time.

As stated in my previous post I think for urban commutes under 15 miles w/a psi upgrade of 20 or more the benefit of NEVER having a flat would far outweigh having to adjust to the feel.

biketony

I'd be very interested in hearing from a cyclist after going downhill on wet pavement with a loaded bicycle on these tires.

Bikepacker67

What is up with all the flats?
Run some Armadillos, make sure your psi is correct, and be done with it already.

I had exactly 3 flats over 3000 miles on these (I've since replaced with a new set, no flats yet over 800m).

Redrom

I did a 25 mile ride along MUP a couple of weeks ago using the air-free tires. Lots of wet & hilly conditions and even some ice and snow still on the bike trail. I'll tell you, while the ride is a little different, it's not different in a bad way, more like the difference you feel between two bikes you like to ride. What really sticks out for me is the freedom I feel, not having to carry the additional gear to deal with flats, and not having to worry that I'll be fixing a flat on a cold day with my fingers going numb, (or I suppose on a hot day while being swarmed by mosquitoes). This particular MUP has pavement that was "cut" with ground glass twenty years ago. I hardly saw another cyclist, because I've learned that as the pavement has worn away, the glass protrudes and gives regular flats to tube-tired cyclists.

One noticeable difference in these tires is that when you get the psi setting up high enough so that it rides with the stability of a tubed-tire, they loose any "shock absorption" effect which comes with a tubed-tire. This weekend I'm picking up a single-sprung Brooks Saddle (Flyer), that I wanted anyway because the trails are littered with root bumps and the roads are all torn up from a winter of clearing the snow (I just moved here to Mass.)

Uh, don't know about "loaded"; I didn't start drinking until after the ride.

Bikepacker67

The path from Belchertown to Northampton?
Have they fixed those darn roots yet?

Ya, and who's bright idea was it to make a bike path out of recycled glass, eh? Some lefty knucklehead at Smith College?

Redrom

Oh, see I joined it with the Florence Trail and even looped around Look Park. That's gotta be 25 easy.

Don't look at me re: roots & glass, I just got here, eh?

nashcommguy

Have put over 350 mi on my Nu-tecks since I got them. Got caught in a rainstorm and expected to start sliding all over the place as is their reputation. No discernable difference. They gripped the newly wet asphalt just fine. And I didn't play. Took corners as hard as I normally would in the rain. Wanted to test the limits. They ARE slower in general, but I like that aspect...it makes me work harder.

Did have one mishap. As I was turning off the asphalt roadway into a pod mall parking lot I hit the concrete driveway at a weird angle and didn't lift up on the bars(brain freeze, I guess). The tire separated from the rim and got jammed in the forks. I was clipped in and managed to NOT fall over before I unclipped. Carried the bike to a safe spot and thought, "NOW what the eff am I gonna do?" "How am I going to get the tire back on w/o the tool?" Well, I was able to work it back on and go on my way. I like them, anyway.

On my day tourer/commuter they felt normal though a little slow. Think I'll get smaller tires(28mm) and up the psi rating to 130 and they should be fine. As far as "hearing from someone who's gone downhill in wet conditions and loaded" I think normal caution would suffice just fine. I'll post back at 3000 miles.

biketony

I envy you your mainly positive experience. I just could not get past the-for me-extremely slippery nature of the tires. I couldn't do anything without one tire (or both) slipping. It was like walking on ice while wearing slick sole shoes. Doing any quick maneuver one does on any garden variety ride was beyond me. FWIW I have good balance, and am a competent rider. Maybe I got some sort of ultra slippery tire! In any event, I still have the 16" Nu-Teck on my BOB trailer. Please keep us posted on your experiences, Nashcommguy.

ryansupak

I've got the nu-tecks. I bought at 30 PSI over the maximum rated -- that seems to "correct" for the feel pretty well.

I find they're responsive and fast, if a bit strange-feeling.

rs

M_S

I have bad luck with flats (or is it my imagination) but everything I've heard says they are not meant for wet conditions, which rules them out for Portland.

But hey, if they work for you, great.

Edit: Well, apparently it didn't work for you. But at least you tried

Sammyboy

I rode an airless rear some years ago through a British winter, 10 miles a day. It was murder. Hurt my ass, skittered all over the road on downhills (the slightest bump disconnected the bike from the road), harder work, and my rim was fairly soon toast.

Ya Tu Sabes

I, too, tried airless a few years back, and was kinda disappointed. The ones I got (don't remember the brand now) were wicked-hard, to the point where they were just killing my ass on my daily 20-mile round trip. The speed and handling were alright (these were 700x25s on a fixed gear commuter), but in the end, the tush pain wasn't a good trade off for no flats, and I went back to pneumatics. Obviously, to each his own, but my feeling is that changing flats isn't as bad as walking around with a sore posterior, and Mr. Tuffys have done well for me in terms of avoiding flats.

phoebeisis

In the late 70's I got a set of flatless tires, and I used them for several years. They consisted of the heavy triangular shaped tire with a flat rolling surface at the top of the flat topped pyramid of rubber.The rolling surface was about 3/8-1/2" I think. On the inside of the rim you placed a section of very heavy polyethelene tubing-maybe 1/2" outside diameter- 3/8" inside diameter. It was a real bear to get the tire over the rim. You had to trim the tubing to size, and then tape the two loose ends.
The ride was harsh, but the rolling resistance was pretty low;I don't remember it being more than a normal high pressure 28mm clincher. The main downside was the rough ride. A second slight downside was the rims would get knocked out of true much more quickly.
All and all they were pretty good. I'm surprised that nothing better has been developed in 30 years(I shouldn't be ,since car tire folks have been trying for almost 90 years since they switched from solid tires).I took them off once I didn't need my tires to be absolutely flat free(I was commuting). The ride was very harsh.
Luck,
Charlie

biketony

Yes I did try!

In three weeks, Mrs Biketony and I are making our much-anticipated move to Portland. I look forward to meeting all of you Portland Bike Forum folk-with or without airless tires!

martybucs

Glad I found this thread. I just ordered a set. Now, I'm a bit nervous, but optimistic.

I've recently returned to cycling and have been making the short, albeit hilly, commute to work for a month now and have had 2 flats - both small punctures.

I'm an old guy and need the exercise, so my doctor tells me, but I don't need practice fixing flats.