Training & Nutrition - What's a good LOWER Ab workout?

Hey guys.. I was kinda reluctant to ask.. but...

What's a good lower ab workout? Like.. something to get the 2 of em right above your waist?

I got the other 4 to come out.. but not those... what can I do?

I've been doing crazy amounts of crunches, and leg lifts.. with only "ok" results.

Any suggestions?

Thanks guys!


-Matt :beer:

try pilates-type exercises. crunches really only work your upper abs.

Lie down on the gound, flat on your back with your arms tight by your sides and your hands underneath your butt. Now, while keeping your legs totally straight and tight, lift them up of the ground and into the air untill they form about a 70 degree angle with the ground. Lower legs very slowly (at least five seconds) back to the ground, BUT DON'T PUT THEM BACK ON THE GROUND UNTILL YOU'RE DONE WITH A SET! Do maybe 20 or so (whatever you can handle...) in a set and two or three sets (untill failure).

- Maurizio

I hate to say this but those 2 are purely genetics. Check out 70s and 80 bodybuilders. some of the most ripped people but still without those 2 subsections of the abdominal wall. If you got em you got em. Also keep in mind your abs are one large muscle not seperated, not 6 seperate muscles.

That said...loose more body fat. Try some bodybuilding techniques for loosing every ounce of water in your skin and that last pound of fat. You muscles are probably substantially large enough to show if you have them. :)

Try reverse crunches. Lie on your back, and bend your legs and knees as if you were sitting in a chair. Pull your knees toward your upper body, lifting your tailbone off the floor, and then slowly lower them to the first position. Don't put your feet on the floor, unless you get tired. To make it more intense, do upper body crunches at the same time, pulling your elbows toward your knees and you work all the abs at the same time.

Also, try lying on your back, your legs bent perpendicular, feet toward the ceiling, hands behind your head. Lift your tailbone, as if someone is pulling on your feet from above. Hold it and lower slowly. Do a few sets of each of these. Lower abs are harder to work but don't obsess about having ripped, six pack abs. I don't! I'm too short waisted but it does tone your abs for sure.

In addition to reverse crunches which were already mentioned I also do hanging leg raises to hit lower abs.Use wrist straps(or one of those ab slings)to hang from a pullup bar and raise legs 90 degrees (in a crunch type movement)with (or without )knees bent trying to avoid swinging as much as possible.However as Maelstrom mentioned I don't usually train abs that much rather rely on fatloss to make the abs visible.

This is a common mistake. The abs are one muscled, you can't "work the lower abs". Since it is all one muscle if you could just work part of it that would be changing the shape of the muscle, which is impossible.

The problem is, right at the bottom of the abs is the first place where excess fat is stores, especially on men. For this reason it is the upper ones that you see come out first. The thing is no matter how hard you work your abs if you have some fat over the lower ones you will never see them. Abs are made in the kitchen, not the gym. The idea of spot reducing fat is a falacy.

Dude is right... you CANNOT work just upper abs or just lower abs. It is one muscle. That's like saying you want to work the middle tricep but not the other two surrounding it. It's just not possible.

HOWEVER, because in aerobics, the terms "upper abs" and "lower abs" are used a lot, I think people tend to think of the rectus abdominus as 2 muscles. It's not. It's one muscle.

Having said that, if you're not seeing the results, consider that you may have too much bodyfat. You can't spot reduce, but if you work on diet and exercise, you'll see overall fat reduction. Eventually, you will slim down in the abdominal area, and when you do, the muscle you've put on from doing the leg lifts and crunches will come through. While you're doing the diet and exercise, continue to do your ab crunches, leg lifts, reverse curls, and also throw in the bicycling ab workout too. Check on google for an explanation of this.

It takes a lot of effort to get the results. You'll probably have to play around with what you're doing to get the results you want, but be prepared to work hard, budget yourself for 6 months to a year, and once you achieve your results, keep in mind, there's maintenance that must be done to keep the results too.

Koffee

yep. i agree with the posts here (Spire)...

unless you're abs are totally weak (which they're probably not if your uppers are defined) it's mostly about body fat.

i am a super-lean ectomorph so i have always had ripped abs even back when i was a skinny little runt and weighed only 135 lbs (at age 18 when i was 6' tall). that said, mine today are a little less ripped than they were even 5 years ago i think just because of age (i'm 32 now and 165lbs at 6'1" - although still sub 9% body fat, how much exactly not sure - i actually keep a little on for racing reserves) but you can still see all 8 divisions...

if you really want to improve the abs, do more cycling and running and eat fewer calories and fewer heavy foods.

Whatt!!?? :eek: Nathank, you believe Spire, but no props to me? :eek:

;) Just kidding. What you mentioned in your last sentence sums it up in a nutshell...

Koffee

uh... what koffee and spire said....

Whatt!!?? Nathank, you believe Spire, but no props to me?

Koffee... well your post wasn't there when i posted (i started the post then had to take a break).

besides you said about the same thing. :)

i think you are maybe the only person on the forums who routinely comes close to writing posts as long as mine! :) (but good informative posts of course)

Originally posted by Koffee Brown
Whatt!!?? :eek: Nathank, you believe Spire, but no props to me? :eek:

;) Just kidding. What you mentioned in your last sentence sums it up in a nutshell...

Koffee

And I said the same thing first but no one mentioned...I was just going to live with it :D

Oh Maelstrom!

My bad! You said it first... so you da man! Somehow, I didn't even see your post in the first place.

Doh!

Nathank, I can understand- you were posting. Good thing, or I would have been really hurt! ;)

Yeah, I got big posts- but it's cause we both have stuff to say, and we're gonna take our time saying it! That's right!

;)

Koff

what ever guys. I beat you all to it. I deserve ALL the credit, no props to any of you :D :p

While the abs are all one muscle and upper and lower can't be isolated the abs are "clusters" of muscle seperated by connective tissue and you can focus on the upper clusters by moving just the torso and the lower by moving the pelvis.By the way for the record I mentioned he lose the fat second lol.

No dude... Maelstrom said it first... yo usaid it second. So Maelstrom is the man de jour!

;)

Koff

Apparently you didn't read my post as well as his as thats exactly what I said.

RWTD...

Alright, you kinda da man... in fact, everyone with testosterone on this thread is equally da man. That gives me blanket coverage, just in case I missed anyone else's thread! ;)

Man, I hate to break it to you, but I attended a lecture given by a guy who is a researcher in the exercise physiology field, and you cannot isolate the abs into upper or lower abs, no matter what. Think of my analogy one more time- and consider that all muscle is separated by bundles of connective tissue (I had to skin and dissect a human body in anatomy class, so I've seen it firsthand). Having said that, you cannot have one part of the muscle move and the other part doesn't. Connective tissue doesn't give you that ability.

This is the researcher that gave the lecture about abs. He blows me away every time he speaks:

http://www.unm.edu/~lkravitz/Article%20folder/abdominal.html

Read this article. It's good. He's one of the best lecturers out there, he's clear and concise, and he's easy to read.

Koffee

Notice I said focus not isolate .The way I look at it exercises targeting just the upper or lower abs are basically doing partial reps not taking the muscle through its full range of motion thus targeting a certain region.When I do an ab exercise I chose one such as reverse crunches where I can crunch the torso from the top and bottom (by lifting the rear off the ground). If you just start from one end and crunch you are not going to optimally recruit the muscles on the other end .

Originally posted by Koffee Brown
This is the researcher that gave the lecture about abs. He blows me away every time he speaks:

http://www.unm.edu/~lkravitz/Articl.../abdominal.html


http://www.poster.net/kravitz-lenny/kravitz-lenny-piercing-4000923.jpg

If Dr. Len Kravitz looked that good, I'd lick his toes! Honestly!

;)

Just kidding. Dr. Kravitz is always joking about the name problem- he's just the coolest obsessive-compulsive I know!

Koffee

lenny kravitz's bottom two show...

when doing crunches or reverse crunches make sure to concentrate on the abs doing the work. Feel the abs pulling . Don't roll your shoulders or lift your legs with with leg muscle. You should place your hands on your chest not behind your neck. This way you are not pulling on your neck. At the top of each movement hold it for a second and feel the the muscle squeeze. Also if you want a six pack visualize a six pack while you are doing the movements.

Originally posted by kingajo
when doing crunches or reverse crunches make sure to concentrate on the abs doing the work. Feel the abs pulling . Don't roll your shoulders or lift your legs with with leg muscle. You should place your hands on your chest not behind your neck. This way you are not pulling on your neck. At the top of each movement hold it for a second and feel the the muscle squeeze. Also if you want a six pack visualize a six pack while you are doing the movements.

Due to the way levers work, it takes more work to do a cruch (reverse or otherwise) with the arms behind the neck (but like you say you should not pull, so that should not actually touch the neck) or even fully extended. Bascially, the force required to move something is the distance from the weight to the fulcrum multiplied by the weight, so moving the weight farther away from the center of rotation increases the force required to move it.

Originally posted by Koffee Brown
RWTD...

http://www.unm.edu/~lkravitz/Article%20folder/abdominal.html

Read this article. It's good. He's one of the best lecturers out there, he's clear and concise, and he's easy to read.

Koffee

I get a 404 on this, has the page moved or something?

Try this link (http://www.unm.edu/~lkravitz/Article%20folder/abdominal.html)...

Originally posted by Joe Gardner
Try this link (http://www.unm.edu/~lkravitz/Article%20folder/abdominal.html)...

Wow, now I see why Koffee is so impressed by this guy.

I just skimmed through this article and he basically agrees with what I said about putting more focus on the upper or lower ab regions.

Yes, in a way...

BUT in his lecture, he emphasized that there was no way you could isolate the upper and lower abs. He actually used those exact terms. He had to, because we all got confused from reading his article.

He is da bomb, though.

Koffee

Hours and hours of sex.

Originally posted by SamDaBikinMan
Hours and hours of sex.

I concur.

All you married people make me jealous.

The question wasn't whether or not you could isolate the abs or how many muscles they are composed of but how to best work the lower abs .Clearly Lenny concured with me you need to lift the pelvis to optimally target the lower abs just raiseing the torso will be less effective.

Originally posted by RWTD
The question wasn't whether or not you could isolate the abs or how many muscles they are composed of but how to best work the lower abs .Clearly Lenny concured with me you need to lift the pelvis to optimally target the lower abs just raiseing the torso will be less effective.

So more sex eh?...

Originally posted by SamDaBikinMan
Hours and hours of sex.

3 minutes at a time... ;)

You mean 3 minutes of rest at a time...right.

Is that what you call it? :lol: (sorry Sam!)

You people have a one track mind.Don't get me started lol.

Oh God what have I started
http://mysmilies.creativesell.net/contrib/ed/smileeek.gifhttp://216.40.249.192/s/cwm/3dlil/la.gif


Where is A.Troll when you need her?

Sam,

Please let's not provoke!

Should I get in on this new lower ab workout? Sounds trendy... dunno...

Koffee, it certainly is not a new workout. Probably the oldest form of exercise known to man. Best thing is it's fun too, with a well conditioned training partner that is.

I think I'll excuse myself and apologize for being a pig. It may be too late for that though.

Ok, you HAVE to know I was kidding, Sam!

I am not that lame! Surely you must know that (and I'm calling you "surely")?

;)

I gotta get me some of that sweet stuff myself. I probably could get rid of this gut I built up over the winter....

Koff

Originally posted by SamDaBikinMan
Hours and hours of sex.

Thank you! I was about to post SEX and saw your post!! Not only does it promote lower back and upper ab strength, it's FUN!!! Wheee!!!

Wow. thanks for the tips fellas.

I never had a chance to come back in here & look @ the responses.

I'm gunna do some of those hanging crunches..

and stop eating fast-food.

My upper 2 "sets" of abs show.. just not the lower ones.

I'm 5' 11" and weigh 145LBS ...

:beer:

how does cycling rate as an abs exercise ?

About 1 on a scale of 1 to 10....

:D

Originally posted by Koffee Brown
About 1 on a scale of 1 to 10....

:D
OK Koffee (sorry about the delayed response :confused: ) What about one of those wheel things with a handle both sides,I made one for my daughter but she goes to the gym now , how good are they ????

cheers greywolf :beer: