General Cycling Discussion - North Road v. Albatross v. Mungo v. All-Rounder v. Wald 8095 v. Priest v. Dove ...

What's the difference between all these swept back handlebars with a little rise? Originally seen commonly on 3 speeds, they have a good "ergo" angle and upright riding position. Many cyclists group these different bars in the a single category that could best be called "North Road" or "3 speed" handlebars. But what are the differences really? Variations include the following factors (common to most handlebars really, but important for this context):

(1) Width - some are as narrow as 50cm (Dove), others are as wide as 58cm (Wald #8095).
(2) Material/Weight: most are steel/cromoly, but some are aluminium. Wider bars weigh more.
(3) Rise - most seem to rise up from the stem an additional 4cm to 6cm, though this is not a strict limit.
(4) Sweep - The angle of the grips relative to a line perpendicular to the top tube of the frame (i.e., perfectly "flat bars" have a 0 degree sweep, the albatross, which is parallel with the frame at the grips has a 90 degree sweep).

I'll try to provide (or add) a link to each of the bars on this list:

(A) The North Road (http://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_n-o.html#northroad)
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/180/383023249_e14ea2ae48_m.jpghttp://farm1.static.flickr.com/183/384867736_85440e414c_m.jpg
The North Road bar was very common on 3 speed bikes decades ago, some even call it a 3 speed bar. They range from 20" to 23" wide. From 50cm on harriscyclery (http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?ID=411) in a Nitto variety to 58+ on the wald #8095 below, and more.
The material is commonly cromoly, though Nitto makes both cromoly and aluminium versions (in either 54cm or 56cm).
The sweep is approximately 70 degrees.

North Road refers to this specific model of handle bar, though different companies make bars by this name (like the Nitto North Road or the Soma North Road) or it can refer to this whole category of bars (basically any 3-speed lookin' bar).

From the responses: "NR's are probably the closest bars for matching the natural wrist pronation of the typical human. Mounting them upside down does not alter this. All of these can be set up to relieve pressure on your arms/hands. Choose a good weight bearing saddle that will support your ischials."

(B) The Albatross (http://hiawathacyclery.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=11)
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/129/383023251_efc7311dd1_o.jpg
Nitto made bar with flavors including 54cm or 56cm wide (you hands should be about alligned with your shoulders, these 54cm bars felt too narrow for me but I have wide shoulders).
Material is either cromoly (bit cheaper) or aluminum (not so cheap).
Someone else seems to have created a tiny Albatross fan club/discussion here. (http://bessasandackerman.com/blog/?p=46) The grips on some pictures of the Albatross are angled away from the front (about 70 degrees like North Roads). However, the Rivendell site picture has the grips parallel to the top tube. (http://www.rivbike.com/webalog/handlebars_stems_tape/16122.html) The Albatross seems to be very similar to the North Road outside of the different grip sweep angles.

From the replies: "The major difference between albatross bars and north road bars are that north road bars do not sweep back as much as albatross bars do. North road bars sweep back at an angle that is very similar to that of the human hand in a resting position (which is why so many people find them comfortable)."

(C) The Wald #8095 (http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=8QD&q=wald+8095&btnG=Search)(such a sexy name!) seems to be more generic/common cromolly version of the North Road (actually most that you see are probably Wald) though a bit wider than the Nitto or Soma versions ... sites say 22" or 23" (which is just over 58cm). See also,the Wald Cruiser, #867 (http://www.amazon.com/Wald-Cruiser-867-Handle-Bar/dp/B0006JI0AC/ref=pd_sim_sg_1_img/002-8434679-5716835)
From the comments:
"Touring Bars are the classic form of North Road bars. These are steel, 22" (not 23" - they may vary a bit), not heavy at all - besides, what's a few oz's?"
I have a set of these from a friend:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/178/385897294_f87ea03df0_o.jpg

(D) The All-Rounder (http://images.google.com/images?q=all-rounder%20%20handlebar&btnG=Search&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=8ks&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi) -
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/181/383023257_11c0294007_o.jpg
what makes the all-rounder different from the Albatross? According to Sheldon Brown: "A semi-straight style of handlebar popular on sportier English 3-speeds (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/english-3.html). It resembles a mountain-bike (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_m.html#mountainbike) bar with a slight rise (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_ri-z.html#rise), but is usually quite a bit narrower than a mountain-bike bar." Humm ... narrower :rolleyes:
Like Mary's - "for all intents, these are All-Rounders found on some original mixte and 3-speed type bikes, little or no straight area adjacent to the clamp, less sweep angle. By a wide margin, 3-speeds came with 20" NR's, not All-Rounders."

(E) Priest - similar to Dove and Albatross ... no longer made by Nitto and considered replaced by the Dove and Albatross.

(F) Dove (http://www.rivbike.com/webalog/handlebars_stems_tape/16123.html)- (replaced the Priest Bar according to this post.) (http://www.rivbike.com/webalog/handlebars_stems_tape/16123.html)
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/174/383023260_dae621bf73_o.jpg
"The priest bars/dove bars are pretty much the same thing and as far as I know the dove bars replaced the priest bars. Dove bars are pretty similar to albatross bars as they both sweep back almost parallel with the top tube. The albatross bars are wider though at 54 and 56 cm while the dove bars are 51ish cm wide. I've tried both the albatross bars (56cm steel version) and the dove bars. The albatross bars definantly had a cruiser feel to them while the narrower dove bars feel a bit sportier. If I were to do it again I'd stick with the albatross bars."
"Very much like the Falcon bar but made by Nitto of Japan like nobody else can do! Clamp is 25.4 mm and it takes mountain-bikey brake levers and shifters."
"It measures about 51.5 cm at the ends, rises 6 cm, sweeps back about 16 cm, and weighs 390g"

(H) Promonade - (http://www.bikecult.com/works/parts/nittoB603a.jpg)
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/167/383023276_cadeb3f406_o.jpg
Okay, not quite like the others, but worth mentioning. Flatter in the front with no bends forward of the stem, longer grip area (like the Dove kinda).

General handlebar advice from Rivendell: (http://www.rivbike.com/html/101_pureopinions.html)
Handlebars 101:
There are two handlebar diameter standards:
1) Mountain bike (7/8") These take traditional mountain bike components like grip shifters, thumb shifters, rapid fire shifters, v-brake levers, etc. The Falcon, Dove, and Albatross bars fall into this category.
2) Road bike (15/16") These take traditional road bike components like caliper brake levers, STI or Ergo shifters, bar end shifters, etc. The Moustache, Dream, and Noodle bars fall into this category.
--Possibly confusing the issue is that there are two stem clamp diameter standards that usually (but not always) correspond to the bar diameter. Most mountain bike bars have 25.4 mm (1") clamp diameters and most road bars have 26.0 mm clamp diameters (except some old Cinelli's were 26.4 so you had to use both their stem and bars). Some old road bars also came in 25.4 mm clamp diameters. Also some bars come with a 25.8 diameter clamp area but they work with the 26.0 stems.

Of course "best" is subjective, but here are some criteria I know I'm concerned with:
(1) I'm heavy even for a clydesdale (300+ though dropping at 3.71lbs/week for 4+ weeks ... this means I have a good amount of forward weight even with proper adjustments {link** (http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=266139)),
(2) I have wide/broad shoulders (so I'd like a wider-ish handlebar),
(3) I like/need a relatively upright riding position, I don't care about component weight much at all,
(4) I ride a few miles each way to school and back a few times a week, 20-30 (and gaining) rides on the weekends.
(5) The bars should be transferable (shim would be okay) from the bike I have (1996 Klein pulse comp, mountain bike) to the bike I want (newish Jamis Coda, hybrid/touring/commuter bike with flat bars ... {link** (http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=265419)thus the need for a replacement set of bars). (Just which diameters this involves I'm a bit shaky on, but nothing I can't figure out with a little time on Sheldonbrown.net, though your advice is appreciated).

As people post better descriptions and links or pictures I'll add them to this top post. Hopefully by the end I'll have figured out which bars may fit me best and others who have the same questions will have a resource to easily help them answer their questions about these comfortable and handsome handlebars!

Thanks to everyone who posts!

New kid on the block, Titec H-Bar

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/3320/hbarfj6.jpg

Just got a set, threw em on the Cross-Check but really haven't ridden enough to "these are really super duper neato keano".

Those seem good for getting a little more aero and stretched out, but I'm looking at something a little more, well, mellow and upright.

Anyone else regarding the North Road type handlebars? Please provide links or pictures if you can =)

I just got a bar for my single speed mountain bike called the Boomerang bar from NYC Cycles on Ebay. It is flat but has 30 degrees of sweep which pulls the grips back about 4 or 5 inches. I think it's about 26 inches wide. They sell for about $10 plus shipping. Here's a picture of it on my bike. I am using about 140mm stem on it otherwise the grips would be behind the steering tube.

Boomergang looks pretty cool. Here's a link to all the interesting handlebars on NYCBicycles. (http://www.nycbikes.com/catalog.php?item_type=Handlebars&item_cat=COMPONENTS)

Here's a pic of the boomerang:
http://www.nycbikes.com/images/items/_mid_328_1.jpg

Looks like Noah's Arc Bar:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/144/383060225_8461046fbb_o.gif

I don't have much advise for you, but I will fan the fire of greater selection. I recently purchased these from my LBS. They called them "wrap around bars" and had them laying somewhere in the back of the shop. They pulled them out when I went in there looking for Trekking bars, and sold them to me for $10. These were made by Haro, but I have no idea what the technical name of them is.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/161/360859603_6d9d138688.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/166/360859370_7f70e98bb8.jpg

New kid on the block, Titec H-Bar

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/3320/hbarfj6.jpg

Just got a set, threw em on the Cross-Check but really haven't ridden enough to "these are really super duper neato keano".
unless Jones sold the rights, thats an infringement on their H-bar

http://www.singlespeedoutlaw.com/issue5/content/hbar.jpg
http://www.jonesbikes.com/update/images/hbar-postions-side.gif

Ooh, almost forgot the Jones Bar ... lost of hand positions (not my thing though, I don't need the more aero placement, really just the more upright.

This above is apparently just a different version of the Jones Bar ... see this website (http://www.bikeman.com/content/view/1035/48/)

Please keep the handlebars coming, and any additional information you have about the differences between the bars from the first post is highly appreciated (especially about differences between the North Road and the Albatross).

The priest bars/dove bars are pretty much the same thing and as far as I know the dove bars replaced the priest bars. Dove bars are pretty similar to albatross bars as they both sweep back almost parallel with the top tube. The albatross bars are wider though at 54 and 56 cm while the dove bars are 51ish cm wide. I've tried both the albatross bars (56cm steel version) and the dove bars. The albatross bars definantly had a cruiser feel to them while the narrower dove bars feel a bit sportier. If I were to do it again I'd stick with the albatross bars.

The major difference between albatross bars and north road bars are that north road bars do not sweep back as much as albatross bars do. North road bars sweep back at an angle that is very similar to that of the human hand in a resting position (which is why so many people find them comfortable).

The Wald handlebars are a cheap knock off of north road bars. I've seen them in a bike shop around here and in my opinion the Nittos do look a lot nicer.

Fantastic, thanks "here and there" ... Here's a good pic based on your name (this is a sculpture in Oakland near my house):
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/188/382301913_929822860f.jpg

"Many Oaklanders are frustrated by the misuse of the most famous quote said about their city, "there's no there there," uttered by Gertrude Stein (http://www.answers.com/topic/gertrude-stein) upon learning as an adult that her childhood Oakland home had been torn down. Contrary to popular belief, the comment was not meant to disparage the city, but rather to express a sentiment similar to "you can't go home again (http://www.answers.com/topic/the-great-gatsby)". Modern-day Oakland has turned the quote on its head, with a statue downtown simply titled, "There." Additionally, in 2005 a sculpture called HERETHERE was installed by the City of Berkeley on the Berkeley-Oakland border at Martin Luther King Jr. Way. The sculpture consists of eight foot high letters spelling out the words "HERE" and "THERE" in front of a ramp that carries the BART (http://www.answers.com/topic/bay-area-rapid-transit) rapid transit tracks from its elevated section in Oakland to the underground section in Berkeley."
See here (http://www.answers.com/topic/oakland-california)

Keep the ideas coming in, I'll do an edit of the top post tonight to get all the additional infomation in.
Thanks everyone

I like the bars that Jitensha Studio in Berkeley has made for them by Nitto.
http://jitensha.com/eng/flatbar05.html
The angle of the grips feels just right.
Here they are on my wife's Raleigh:
http://thumb9.webshots.net/t/59/659/7/36/88/2217736880068014369VNpklt_th.jpg (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2217736880068014369VNpklt)

Wow, the Jitensha bars look far out, that looks like an evolved flatbar to say the least.
Jitensha's pic:
http://jitensha.com/eng/images/nittofltbr.jpg
There are two others that are pretty groovy too:
http://jitensha.com/eng/bars_e.html
http://jitensha.com/eng/images/hndlbrbg.jpg

I like the bars that Jitensha Studio in Berkeley has made for them by Nitto.
http://jitensha.com/eng/flatbar05.html
The angle of the grips feels just right.
Here they are on my wife's Raleigh:
http://thumb9.webshots.net/t/59/659/7/36/88/2217736880068014369VNpklt_th.jpg (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2217736880068014369VNpklt)


Good find. Looks similar to the On-One Mary bar but cheaper and silver. Looks like there could be another Nitto product in my inventory.

Good find. Looks similar to the On-One Mary bar but cheaper and silver. Looks like there could be another Nitto product in my inventory. The On-One Mary:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/169/383011853_b8362fc546_m.jpg
Good call, they are remarkably similar! I wonder if there's a substantial difference in width?

I never noticed, but you're right. They are very similar to the shape of the On-One Mary.

I just don't like the Scott atb bullhorns I have on my Trek. I have to reach too far forward to find a comfortable grip. How do you think those bars would look on it?

http://thumb9.webshots.net/t/55/55/9/47/62/2244947620068014369ZmdEeX_th.jpg (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2244947620068014369ZmdEeX)

Wow. Ok, here we go:

Wald #8095 Touring Bars are the classic form of North Road bars. These are steel, 22" (not 23" - they may vary a bit), not heavy at all - besides, what's a few oz's?
http://i5.tinypic.com/33df2fr.jpg
http://i11.tinypic.com/47a1xjt.jpg

or, if you prefer, upside down:
http://i8.tinypic.com/2hz0o3m.jpg

North Roads differ from:

Mary: for all intents, these are All-Rounders found on some original mixte and 3-speed type bikes, little or no straight area adjacent to the clamp, less sweep angle. By a wide margin, 3-speeds came with 20" NR's, not All-Rounders.

Albatross, Promenade: very similar to each other in that they have nearly a 90degree sweep. Classy, but perhaps somewhat impractical for long rides.

Cruisers: typically very wide with a pronounced arc forming the sweep, almost semi-circular. Hang out the laundry. :D

Out of these, NR's are probably the closest bars for matching the natural wrist pronation of the typical human. Mounting them upside down does not alter this. All of these can be set up to relieve pressure on your arms/hands. Choose a good weight bearing saddle that will support your ischials.

You will find that a 3-speed will set you up straighter than a modern bike because the top tubes were shorter on those. If you go with NR's you won't be bolt-upright at all, even less so with the Mary's. The posture you will get will likely be quite good for long trips.

Wow. Ok, here we go:
http://i11.tinypic.com/47a1xjt.jpg
Does anyone know what those grips are called? Want to try something similar out but they're kinda expensive. These look similar but hopefully cheaper?

I got some North Roads from a friend ... they're narrower than I imagined (20" as you mention here)


North Roads differ from:
Mary: for all intents, these are All-Rounders found on some original mixte and 3-speed type bikes, little or no straight area adjacent to the clamp, less sweep angle. By a wide margin, 3-speeds came with 20" NR's, not All-Rounders.
Mary's and all-rounders at the same? I though the all-rounders had a little more rise to them, is that not the case?
And, sorry for my ignorance, but what is "sweep angle" referring to? Wider sweep means less parallel with frame, closer to perpendicular? Or is it just the opposite?
Are all-rounders wider than Mary's or North Roads?


Albatross, Promenade: very similar to each other in that they have nearly a 90degree sweep. Classy, but perhaps somewhat impractical for long rides.
So when I see bars that do not have the 90 degree sweep (meaning they're basically parallel with the frame?)


Cruisers: typically very wide with a pronounced arc forming the sweep, almost semi-circular. Hang out the laundry. :D
Yeah, too wide ... really I'm just looking for a slightly wider version of the North Road bars is seems.


Out of these, NR's are probably the closest bars for matching the natural wrist pronation of the typical human. Mounting them upside down does not alter this. All of these can be set up to relieve pressure on your arms/hands. Choose a good weight bearing saddle that will support your ischials.
Well, got a good saddle, B-67 from Wallbike. Off to sheldonbrown's glossary to look up ischials =)
Probably won't be mounting upside down though I agree with others who say it looks "hip".

Thanks, most in depth and informative post so far. Later today I'll add parts of your comparative descriptions to the top post.

The On-one Mary has a 37.5mm rise and Jitensha Studio flat bar has no rise at all. The Jitensha bar is a copy of an old 3ttt bar. Mr. Hiroshi's wife's bike has the original 3ttt bar. I compared them and the shape is almost identical, but the 3ttt's are narrower. I think the extra length in the grip area is to make room for modern brakes and shifters. I shortened mine because I'm not using modern brakes and shifters.

I've read that statement about North Roads and "natural wrist pronation" before. I must be built wierd, because I've got some old steel Walds and they're not the most comfortable bar for me. The grips sweep back a bit too much.

Your ischial tuberosities are your sitbones. These are the parts of your butt that need supporting. Specialized makes a sizing device many call the "ass-o-meter" that measures the width of your sitbones to determine the proper saddle width. You want a saddle to support your sitbones firmly. If they are allowed to sink into a big fat gel pad, pressure is then transferred to other parts of the body that aren't designed to handle it.


The North Roads are good bars for getting around town. Most folks prefer their handlebars to be the same width as their shoulders. Too narrow and you feel cramped, can't breathe. Too wide and you get shoulder soreness. But everyone's different, YMMV, etc.

The various trekking bars people posted offer a lot of handpositions while still keeping you pretty upright. If you are doing some long rides, these would be good choices.

Do a search in the SS/FG forum and the Roadie forum for more handlebars. While the Roadie forum will have all drop bars, the SS/FG crowd will have all sorts of fashionable, practical and questionable but cool-looking bars.

Here's some Oury mountain grips. $10 a pair from speedgoat.
http://www.speedgoat.com/images/products/HT6300.jpg

What Dirtdrop says about the Mary/Jitensha comparison is true. The All-Rounder is a term that was used in England to describe a type of bar that resembles the Mary, but can have even less rise, being nearly as flat as the Jitesha. I had two of them on old Viking touring bikes. They were about 19" wide. Wald #815 is a version. I think I can say that Dirtdrop is not a-typical. NR's are just another approximation of design among many that happen to fit alot of people.

Grips:
Sorry, can't remember. I got them at a MTB store in town a long time ago. They seem pretty good. That little flair feature doesn't really do anything. The others mentioned here are probably just as good.

North Roads come in 22" (ok, sometimes they actually measure 23") and 20", which is the original width. Having broad shoulders, I prefer the wider. Nitto makes them in 20" and they're pricey, alloy, and very nice.

Sweep generally refers to the back-angle as measured from the clamp. Example: a straight MTB bar has little to no sweep, being in line with the clamp. Conversely, a 90degree sweep is perpendicular to the clamp and parallel (in-line) with the top tube.

Geezo, several really helpful replies in such a short time. I'll do my best to update my first post tonight, but it's Friday so who knows what my BAC will be 7 hours from now.

So the albatross comes in 560mm which is about 22", maybe a little less. The NR comes in 20" or 22" and sometimes measures 23" ... I tried out a 540mm albatross (at velosport in Berkeley) but it felt quite narrow (hard to tell not on the bike). My friend gave me an old rusted but sturdy NR that is 22" center to center of the holes at the ends of the bars. Measured my chest width, about 43cm (I believe 39 or 40 is average). I'm going to put it on tonight or tomorrow and ride around in the rain (fun). But even that bar looks a bit narrow ...

Anyone know where I might find a 23" North Road Bar?

And thanks for the oury grips heads up, current grips seem okay, really the problem is posture/weight distribution ... really, if I was riding harder there'd be more weight on my legs and less on my hands and seat, but being a little upright in the meantime seems to work okay. Ergon grips seem nice and available for under $25, I'll consider them but after figuring out the positioning situation ...

My current grips: WTB DUAL COMPOUND BICYCLE GRIP
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/140/384850920_623908439d_o.gif
More info here (http://phattire1.stores.yahoo.net/wtbdualcomtr.html) for what it's worth. They're okay, pretty sticky, $5 at LBS.

Thanks, thanks, thanks.

OK, I actually went out and measured my NR's at 23" from center to center. So, with Wald #8095, that's what you get. The clamp diameter is 1" (25.4mm). I think I paid about $15. The Nitto's are 19.5" (50cm) which is similar to original British bars.

I can't remember if this got covered: Ordinary MTB brake levers and thumb shifters will work with the Wald. Bar-end shifters will also work with no problems.

I just measured my steel Wald North Roads. They're 21" c to c. It should also be mentioned that steel bars get rusty and they tend to slip in the stem clamp.

unless Jones sold the rights, thats an infringement on their H-bar


Since he licensed the design to them, I guess it wouldn't be.

I just measured my steel Wald North Roads. They're 21" c to c. It should also be mentioned that steel bars get rusty and they tend to slip in the stem clamp.

Hmm... maybe they just pick a spot under the chop-saw and let 'er drop. :eek: After reading your post I went and measured my other set and it's a solid 22"! Go figure. Haven't had the rust or slipping problem yet, but there's still time... :rolleyes:

I just measured my steel Wald North Roads. They're 21" c to c. It should also be mentioned that steel bars get rusty and they tend to slip in the stem clamp. The donated bars from my friend are almost 21.67" end to end, 21" center to center:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/132/385897282_ee49df71cc.jpg

By the way, here's my old vs. new:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/149/385897593_446333c49a.jpghttp://farm1.static.flickr.com/183/387039965_6bf4dae07b_m.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/165/385897467_5009390951.jpghttp://farm1.static.flickr.com/165/387040405_f058a1d245.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/142/385897975_66acb2cc55.jpghttp://farm1.static.flickr.com/139/387040313_0d2abf1820_o.jpg

My donated North Road bars do have the rust issue, I'll call it a theft deterrent:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/159/387040528_3bbe21d17b_o.jpg

Fantastic, thanks "here and there" ... Here's a good pic based on your name (this is a sculpture in Oakland near my house):
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/188/382301913_929822860f.jpg

"Many Oaklanders are frustrated by the misuse of the most famous quote said about their city, "there's no there there," uttered by Gertrude Stein (http://www.answers.com/topic/gertrude-stein) upon learning as an adult that her childhood Oakland home had been torn down. Contrary to popular belief, the comment was not meant to disparage the city, but rather to express a sentiment similar to "you can't go home again (http://www.answers.com/topic/the-great-gatsby)". Modern-day Oakland has turned the quote on its head, with a statue downtown simply titled, "There." Additionally, in 2005 a sculpture called HERETHERE was installed by the City of Berkeley on the Berkeley-Oakland border at Martin Luther King Jr. Way. The sculpture consists of eight foot high letters spelling out the words "HERE" and "THERE" in front of a ramp that carries the BART (http://www.answers.com/topic/bay-area-rapid-transit) rapid transit tracks from its elevated section in Oakland to the underground section in Berkeley."
See here (http://www.answers.com/topic/oakland-california)

Interesting, thanks for sharing. :)

The new handlebars look good (that's a nice saddle too :D). I ended up ordering some north road bars this week (the wald version) that will likely replace my dove bars.

Interesting, thanks for sharing. :)

The new handlebars look good (that's a nice saddle too :D). I ended up ordering some north road bars this week (the wald version) that will likely replace my dove bars. I'm pretty happy with the new bars, though installing new cables and cable housing was a hassle (needed to be about 4-6 inches longer).

I'm thinking of replacing the short, high angle stem with the original which is maybe a 10 degree rise and 110mm (current stem is about 45 degree rise, 65mm long). It's also a bit narrow for me, maybe I can get my hands on something an inch wider. And it's not a wald as I speculated; just something from a early 80's schwinn or some such. Same deal though.

My impression was that I was substantially more upright ... I could take my hands off the bars and early sit upright with no real work. Probably should be a bit more forward, but I can't get my seat further back to counter balance a bit so I'm not going to mess with it beyond returning to a shallower angle, longer stem. Great short ride today, finally a break in the rain.

Worked on it in the Missing Link bike shop in Berkeley ... they have a room just for people to work on bikes with loaner tools ... and what loaner tools! They have everything including work stands and good lighting. I was really happy to find chain grease and proper cable housing cutters, saves tons of time and makes for a much better end result. I'll be back there again and again.

Now, to find some food ... and on that note I've lost 19.8 lbs since january 3rd! Yip!

jbrams:
Congratulations on the weight loss. I've lost 50lbs in the past 1-1/2 years.

A note on the bar position relative to your posture: Be aware that the old Brit 3-speeds were very short in the cockpit compared to more recent bikes. Not only did they have very short stems, but they had short top tubes as well. That means that your present posture is not as upright as you may think - it just feels that way because of the sudden change. If you stretch out the setup, you may negate the advantages of a more ergo bar by actually putting the weight right back where you didn't want it. You'll likely find that the single hand position on NR's works against you.

My setup is an adjustable stem, but it is set at about 80mm, which puts the middle of the grips in a line crossing thru the quill. My spine is about the same angle as the seat stays - not bolt upright

jbrams:
Congratulations on the weight loss. I've lost 50lbs in the past 1-1/2 years.
Right back at you, good work being consistent over such a long period; I hope I can do the same.


A note on the bar position relative to your posture: Be aware that the old Brit 3-speeds were very short in the cockpit compared to more recent bikes. Not only did they have very short stems, but they had short top tubes as well. That means that your present posture is not as upright as you may think - it just feels that way because of the sudden change. If you stretch out the setup, you may negate the advantages of a more ergo bar by actually putting the weight right back where you didn't want it. You'll likely find that the single hand position on NR's works against you.
That makes sense, I'll keep the current stem, but I think the problem may be that the angle of the grips relative to the ground is too flat -- I'm going to move angle of the grips down (i.e., center of handlebars same height, ends of handlebars lower). My hands were rotated forward a bit more than was natural though it would have been closer to natural if I were sitting VERY upright. I don't think I'll get a chance to do more than a couple miles tonight, reporting back soon.


My setup is an adjustable stem, but it is set at about 80mm, which puts the middle of the grips in a line crossing thru the quill. My spine is about the same angle as the seat stays - not bolt upright
I'm looking at getting a Jamis Coda (you probably already knew since you've been so helpful on each of my threads) which comes with an adjustable stem - I understand they're not the best for weight or for hard riding, but for my purposes and given my fit problems, I'm really looking forward to having this as another option.

That being said, do you know if the shifters and brakes that come on the Jamis coda's flat bars will work on the North Road or similar bars?

"...do you know if the shifters and brakes that come on the Jamis coda's flat bars will work on the North Road or similar bars?"

Can't say for certain, but I have used my bar-ends on my Trek 520 along with a set of Avid SD-7 brakes levers on the Wald bars. Perfect fit. The bars are .875" (7/8" or 22.2mm) on the outside and about .781" (25/32" or 19.8mm) on the inside.

Definitely tilt the bars to suit. I like mine at about 3-5 degrees down, or, nearly level.

Trek 520 with Wald NR's - Avid levers- factory barcons:
http://i5.tinypic.com/49atmwx.jpg

Great post, it's very helpful but...
In comparing the Nitto north Road and Albatross, the [multiple] pictures of the Albatross on Rivendell's site very clearly show that the sweep is nowhere near 90*. It looks identical to the North Road and, in fact, Hiawatha Cycles who is a Riv dealer and deals in many things Nitto claims they cannot tell the difference between the bars. Maybe the "Albatross" design has changed? Maybe the North Road is now being sold as an Albatross at Riv?
Who knows...

Since posting this I've purchased the Albatross bars and was given a some North Road bars. Here's the difference:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2347/2034376240_22fe91be0a_o.jpg

Basically, the shape is very similar except the curvature at the point furthest forward ... the albatross has a wider, bigger curve where you can easily place your hands in a couple different positions. The North Road has a little crook that is smaller which you can put your hands on top of or hook your thumb underneath. The picture I drew is out of scale, but it points out the main difference between the two.

If you're riding with either set of bars the feel is very similar for the "normal" hand position (at the ends) assuming all else is equal (angle relative to ground, height, etc).

I padded my albatross with gel tape which makes for a comfy riding position. This would be next to useless and harder to do on the North Roads.

I enjoy both handlebars, but the Albatross gets my pick for its satin finish and it's just "springer" than the North Roads I have ... it really bounces in a very good way that fits well with my bike and my own size/weight/issues. But the North Road can be found for much less and for most people the price difference will make the North Road a more reasonable choice unless you really prefer the different forward hand position of the Albatross.

That being said, I have the steel, 56cm Albatross bars ... there is also a 54cm Aluminum alloy version that is more well loved by the fixie crowd and some others. The feel is different, but the shape of the different metal versions is essentially the same.

Also, there were many bikes with "North Road" bars over the years and the shape, size, weight, and other factors seem to have varied a little between manufacturers and over time. So there may be a North Road bar that is different from what you've seen/ridden so if you're looking for something different it may well be out there ... somewhere.

I'll take some pictures another day to give a more accurate representation of the differences, just not this morning before work ... oy.

That really helps. Is the "crook" on the NR really as sharp as in your sketch? I'd love to see photos if/when you can find the time - I'm trying to decide which of these bars to buy - leaning towards a NR in 54 cromo.
Thanks again!

That really helps. Is the "crook" on the NR really as sharp as in your sketch? I'd love to see photos if/when you can find the time - I'm trying to decide which of these bars to buy - leaning towards a NR in 54 cromo.
Thanks again!
Kinda, it's that sharp but it's not that long ... it doesn't stick out that far in front of the handle bars. Too hard to describe, I'll try for pictures tonight or this weekend.

Some images I've posted before but relate to this thread.

http://homepage.mac.com/awcg/.Pictures/Bike/Handlebars/All.3.jpg
Flat, Albatross, North Road

http://homepage.mac.com/awcg/.Pictures/Bike/Handlebars/Alb.mary.jpg
Albatross on top of an On-One Mary

http://homepage.mac.com/awcg/.Pictures/Bike/Handlebars/North.mary.jpg
North Road on top of a Mary

Have an Albatross bar on my 1x9 all purpose CrossCheck. At first i didn't like it, as the handgrips didn't seem to be a comfortable angle. I fiddled with the bike fit, seat and stem changes. Then i angled the
rear of the Albatross slightly upward, so the bar ends were a cm or two above the intersection with the stem. The handle bar is just above seat height, This has worked out to be pretty comfortable, wrapped
bar tape around the U-shaped sections which i lean into for climbing or on a windy day. Now I'm pretty happy with the set up {or just use to the set up**.

Allen G-
Whats the width on your A-bar and NR bar? The NR seem quite a bit narrower - I know the A-bar is available in 56 (as well as 54) and the NR in 54 but there appears to be a bigger discrepancy in size between the 2 bars in your picture.
I'm wondering if the NR bars you have are the second model offered by Nitto, sometimes sold as a North Road and sometimes labeled the "Allrounder". This bar is about 50cm c-to-c and has a significantly different shape than the North Road bar I have been asking about.
Links here might clarify what I'm describing:
North Road 54cm:
http://tinyurl.com/24scjo

Allrounder AKA North Road AKA 50cm:
http://tinyurl.com/2fdmw5

Thanks!

After comparing lots of pix and numbers, I'm still not entirely clear so...
Can anybody tell me definitively which bar has more sweep - the A-bar or the NR?
I'm looking for the bar which puts the grip area closest to parallel to the top tube.
Thanks!

That "North Road" is the same as the Allrounder in the link you posted, 50cm.
The "NR" has less sweep, but the bend is smaller and sharper. The Albatross's bar ends are more parallel, but the "bends" at the front of the bar are larger and more suitable to use as alternative hand holds.

When it comes to the types of bars discussed so far I've got time on the Jones H-Bar, the On-One Mary and the 56cm Albatross, and I've also imported the Black Sheep Ti Mountain Moustache Enduro bar (http://www.blacksheepbikes.com/) for a customer and had the chance to compare it directly with my Albatross bars. The Ti bar is wider and doesn't sweep as much as the Albatross, and the curves have more distinct placements, providing flatter, more sharply demarcated hand placement areas.

Jeff Jones is definitely cool with Titec having licensed the H-bars. They become more affordable, so more people can enjoy the benefits of them, he gets justly compensated for his intellectual property and it doesn't take time from work that demands his personal attention. I've yet to try the Titec versions, but they have three main differences as compared to his originals:

1) They are bulged to require a 31.8 stem. Jeff's originals used an unadorned 25.4 center crossbar stock to fit with any standard removable-face MTB stem. His favorite when he started out was the Thomson Elite stem, but he has subsequently switched to the Thomson X4 31.8mm stem, so he has designed a custom shim that is machined for him at Paragon that is an exact fit for the X4. This combination provides a number of benefits including extra stiffness and durability as well as lower weight.

2) The crosspiece on the Titec bars sweeps up and forward. This allows most to use stems of the same length and rise that they would use for a standard riser MTB bar. The Jones H-Bar, having a flat, straight crossbar works best with a longer stem with more rise than one would use with a standard riser bar.

3) The Titec bars are aluminum and relatively affordable. The Jones bars are Titanium, cost a ton and, as I mentioned above, often require investment in a new stem as well.

So how do they work in practice? The rearmost position on the Jones and Titec H-Bars is very similar in angle to the normal position on the On-One Mary, but the Mary has less fore-aft range, so if the rearmost positions are matched for reach the forward-most position on the H-bars may feel too far forward for many. I prefer to adjust stem length to match the center control position on the H-bars with the normal position on the Mary. This gives me useful positions both farther forward and narrowly aero than I can get with any of the other options discussed so far, but as far back as anything short of the Albatross, at the same width and sweep as the Mary. This wide and back position is great for descents (much better than the Albatross because of the better bracing angle) but also useful for both more relaxed cruising and various unweighting maneuvers (manuals, bunny hops and such).

I like the angle of the Mary, but it isn't anywhere near as versatile as the others. The positioning is nice, but no matter how nice the trick they are a bit of a one-trick pony when compared to the Albatross, the Moustache (Nitto or Black Sheep) or the H-bar variants.

I am changing handlebars and found this series of posts very worthwhile. Thanks

I am changing handlebars and found this series of posts very worthwhile. Thanks
Excellent, good to hear! Let us know which bars you're considering or which you've decided on.

Great thread with lots of information...I may have a unique situation however.

I would like to change my mountain handlebars from risers to more of an upright bar for touring...like the Nitto Promenade or similiar. I would like to use my ultegra barcon shifters and the currently installed Tektro v-brake levers. Will any bar work? Suggestions if otherwise? Currently has grip shift installed...

Resurrecting an old thread on handlebars:
Has anyone tried the Pyramid Touring North Road Alloy Bike handlebars? Will grip shift and brake levers fit? I'm looking for a narrower width than cruisers. My bike is a Giant Suede with riser bars that seem to have 0 to miniscule sweep back. It's a 7 speed, (derailleur) so need room for the shifter and brakes. My other bikes I rode back in my youth were 3-speed and a Schwinn Suburban with tourist type bars.

Thanks.

thanks for all the info re: bars. does anyone know if the crmo albatross bars will fit the tektro inverse brake levers? it says the levers fit bars with internal bar end diameters of 19.6 to 20.6mm. i don't know the internal dia. of the crmo albatross... any help would be appreciated! thanks!

thanks for all the info re: bars. does anyone know if the crmo albatross bars will fit the tektro inverse brake levers? it says the levers fit bars with internal bar end diameters of 19.6 to 20.6mm. i don't know the internal dia. of the crmo albatross... any help would be appreciated! thanks!



I've been thinking the same thing! Fortunately, I've kept my old Riv catalogs, and one from 2003 lists the internal diameter as 20.0..... so it will be OK. Considering the Alabatross is made for bar-ends, any shifter or brake lever meant for the ends of bars should work.

The Tektro levers look like nice.... the reach is adjustable too. Velo Orange has them in all siver in case you were not aware.

Using these levers with the Albatross let's the whole grip be used ...... nice. I'll probably stick the thumbshifters near the middle .