I'm inspired now. Thanks the the recent Iowa Bicycle Summit that is. I am tired of the way to slow progress being made regarding bicycle facilties. Not to say nothing is being done, there is.
First here is what is being done:
1. The Parks & Rec. Director has a file on Complete Streets info.
2. Funding for Safe Routes to School has been applied for for the new Unity Elementary School.
3. The bridge project is underway, the funding for it should be completed in the next month or so.
Here is what needs to be done & what I will push hard to get done.
1. Adopt a Complete Streets Policy for Sioux City. The info. is doing no one any good sitting in a file somewhere. I'm going to approach the MPO, the city. gov. & parks & rec. dept. about this all at the same time.
2. Find out what the funding, if granted for the Safe Routes to School, is going to be used for for Unity Elementary & advocate for all of the schools to be included & funded in the future. I'm also going to approach the private schools about this as well. The funding can be used for both public & private schools.
3. Push for Riverside Blvd to be put on a road diet. See this thread for details on that: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=266811
I am going to do this with or with out the help & support of the Siouxland Trails Foundation. It will be easier with. I will be very aggressive but diplomatic with this as well. I know that sounds contradictory but I think I can pull it off.
Tell me what you think about these ideas. Any questions or comments are welcome.
The BikeForums Team
-adv-
This is an archived thread, you can find the full version of this thread, with images, links and more content here.
That's taking on a lot. We've got individuals whose full-time focus is on safe routes to school only. Good luck and I hope you get things accomplished.
chipcom
I wouldn't go giving out your blog address to the people you are trying to lobby/influence. :lol:
N_C
I wouldn't go giving out your blog address to the people you are trying to lobby/influence. :lol:
:beer: :love: ;) :p
N_C
That's taking on a lot. We've got individuals whose full-time focus is on safe routes to school only. Good luck and I hope you get things accomplished.
Maybe. Thankfully I have enough time to deal with these things. I don't have any kids, so no activities to deal with there. I am involved with a lot of other things but still have time to take on & advocate for these challenges & changes.
AndrewP
Start collecting data on Unity Elementary School traffic, so if funding is approved, you will have before and after info to support doing this for other schools (or maybe you will know that the money spent was wasted).
Helmet Head
I'm inspired now. Thanks the the recent Iowa Bicycle Summit that is. I am tired of the way to slow progress being made regarding bicycle facilties. Not to say nothing is being done, there is.
First here is what is being done:
1. The Parks & Rec. Director has a file on Complete Streets info.
2. Funding for Safe Routes to School has been applied for for the new Unity Elementary School.
3. The bridge project is underway, the funding for it should be completed in the next month or so.
Here is what needs to be done & what I will push hard to get done.
1. Adopt a Complete Streets Policy for Sioux City. The info. is doing no one any good sitting in a file somewhere. I'm going to approach the MPO, the city. gov. & parks & rec. dept. about this all at the same time.
2. Find out what the funding, if granted for the Safe Routes to School, is going to be used for for Unity Elementary & advocate for all of the schools to be included & funded in the future. I'm also going to approach the private schools about this as well. The funding can be used for both public & private schools.
3. Push for Riverside Blvd to be put on a road diet. See this thread for details on that: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=266811
I am going to do this with or with out the help & support of the Siouxland Trails Foundation. It will be easier with. I will be very aggressive but diplomatic with this as well. I know that sounds contradictory but I think I can pull it off.
Tell me what you think about these ideas. Any questions or comments are welcome.
What is the problem that you're trying to solve, and how will these efforts solve this problem?
N_C
What is the problem that you're trying to solve, and how will these efforts solve this problem?
The first problem is no Complete Streets Policy for Sioux City. A Complete Streets Plicy will ensure & require that when a roadway project is undertaken, whether new construction or re-construction bicycle facilities, what ever may be required for such, will HAVE to be taken into consideration & be a part of the project.
Second, continue with the Safe Routes To School. Make sure it is not limited to just one school & include the private schools. This is not necessarily a problem. But Sioux City officials have a bad habit of only doing something for one area & not looking at or including the whole picture. In this case that would be all of the public schools. So this could become a problem.
Finally, R'side Blvd being a road diet, will, I think, make things a lot safer & easier for all roadway users, but especially cyclists. If it works with R'side then the efforts, I hope, will be transfered to Hamilton Blsd & possibly Floyd Blvd, both of which are or have sections that are 4-lanes undivided.
Helmet Head
The first problem is no Complete Streets Policy for Sioux City. A Complete Streets Plicy will ensure & require that when a roadway project is undertaken, whether new construction or re-construction bicycle facilities, what ever may be required for such, will HAVE to be taken into consideration & be a part of the project.
What is the problem with projects where bicycle facilities are not taken into consideration & are not part of the project? (I'm not saying there isn't one, I'm trying to understand what you perceive the problem to be)
N_C
What is the problem with projects where bicycle facilities are not taken into consideration & are not part of the project? (I'm not saying there isn't one, I'm trying to understand what you perceive the problem to be)
The problem is they are currently not taken into consideration.
IMO there should not be a policy in place to require it, bike facilties should be taken into consideration with out a policy. But as they are not a policy needs to be adopted to "force their hand".
As much as this should not have to happen it is the sad truth of it. If bike facilties were taken into consideration things would be a lot differant on the roadways in this community.
Helmet Head
The problem is they are currently not taken into consideration.
IMO there should not be a policy in place to require it, bike facilties should be taken into consideration with out a policy. But as they are not a policy needs to be adopted to "force their hand".
As much as this should not have to happen it is the sad truth of it. If bike facilties were taken into consideration things would be a lot differant on the roadways in this community.
I understand that bicycling facilities are currently often (if not always) not taken into consideration for new roadway projects.
I'm asking WHY is it a problem that bicycling facilities are not taken into consideration?
You say things would be a lot different on the roadways in this community if they were taken into consideration.
HOW would they be different? HOW would that be better over what you have now?
What problem(s) would get solved, and who currently has these problems, and how would these problems get solved?
(I'm asking you these questions to force you to answer them, an important process to go through if you want to have a convincing position)
Edit: Also, and by the way, when I went through a similar process for my own community, I came up empty. I couldn't come up with any strong answers to any of these questions, so I stopped advocating for this kind of stuff. I don't see the point. But maybe when you go through the process you will uncover something compelling.
N_C
I understand that bicycling facilities are currently often (if not always) not taken into consideration for new roadway projects.
I'm asking WHY is it a problem that bicycling facilities are not taken into consideration?
You say things would be a lot different on the roadways in this community if they were taken into consideration.
HOW would they be different? HOW would that be better over what you have now?
What problem(s) would get solved, and who currently has these problems, and how would these problems get solved?
(I'm asking you these questions to force you to answer them, an important process to go through if you want to have a convincing position)
Edit: Also, and by the way, when I went through a similar process for my own community, I came up empty. I couldn't come up with any strong answers to any of these questions, so I stopped advocating for this kind of stuff. I don't see the point. But maybe when you go through the process you will uncover something compelling.
The problems include but are not limited to, & I'm not going to list all of them:
1. Overall roadway conditions. From poor to down right horrible. Sioux City, being a agricultural hub, there is a lot of semi-truck traffic. This tears up some of the roadways. Others are just simply neglected.
2. Speed limits at which motorists actually drive. There needs to be more traffic calming in certain areas.
3. Roadway width, lack of a BL, signage advising motorists to share the road, or lack of a wide enough roadway with no BL to safely share the roadway.
One other thing. The city officials are aware of these issues. They just like to put their heads in the sand when it comes to them. They'd rather spend too much time deciding on whether or not to adopt a discrimination policy for the gay community. Not that that is not important, it is. But they spend too much time on issues like that & not enough on the more immediate in your face, need to be dealt with immeadatley issues. Part of the problem is the roadways are controlled by the public works division. Which controls the Parks & Rec. Dept. as well as the water & sewer depts. In other communities the roadway division & parks are rec. are their own depts.
Helmet Head
The problems include but are not limited to, & I'm not going to list all of them:
1. Overall roadway conditions. From poor to down right horrible. Sioux City, being a agricultural hub, there is a lot of semi-truck traffic. This tears up some of the roadways. Others are just simply neglected.
2. Speed limits at which motorists actually drive. There needs to be more traffic calming in certain areas.
3. Roadway width, lack of a BL, signage advising motorists to share the road, or lack of a wide enough roadway with no BL to safely share the roadway.
One other thing. The city officials are aware of these issues. They just like to put their heads in the sand when it comes to them. They'd rather spend too much time deciding on whether or not to adopt a discrimination policy for the gay community. Not that that is not important, it is. But they spend too much time on issues like that & not enough on the more immediate in your face, need to be dealt with immeadatley issues. Part of the problem is the roadways are controlled by the public works division. Which controls the Parks & Rec. Dept. as well as the water & sewer depts. In other communities the roadway division & parks are rec. are their own depts.
We're getting closer, but we're still not quite identifying the problem(s) that you want to solve. Let's use your #1 as an example.
The problem you're trying to solve is poor roadway conditions. Presumably, the poor road conditions are potential hazards, that can lead to damage, injury and even death. Also, rough road conditions are arguably unpleasant to cycle on, and, so, are likely to discourage cycling. Those are the problems (related to your #1) that you seek solutions for. That's what I'm trying to get you to identify.
What about #2 and #3?
N_C
We're getting closer, but we're still not quite identifying the problem(s) that you want to solve. Let's use your #1 as an example.
The problem you're trying to solve is poor roadway conditions. Presumably, the poor road conditions are potential hazards, that can lead to damage, injury and even death. Also, rough road conditions are arguably unpleasant to cycle on, and, so, are likely to discourage cycling. Those are the problems (related to your #1) that you seek solutions for. That's what I'm trying to get you to identify.
What about #2 and #3?
I don't know what you're getting at here. Yeah poor road conditions are a hazard. Does this discourage cycling? I do not know. Does the speed motorists drive discourage cycling? I do not know. Does the lack of facilities do the same? Again I do not know. The answer could be yes these thigs do discourage cycling. If it does then correcting these things will encourage cycling. If these things do not discourage cycling just make it difficult then correcting them will simply make cycling better. I do not have the time nor the patience to conduct a study as to whether or not these things do discourage cycling.
I see these problems as a cyclist because they directly affect me when I ride & others I ride with. I will stop short of saying I am working to improve these things for my benefit & the benefit of other existing cyclists in my community. I hope it has a greater impact then that. I hope it encourages more people who are not cyclists to get out & ride & become cyclists. If it does not, ok at least things improved for the existing cyclists.
Cynikal
I wish you luck on this. Sounds like good work. Try to get as many people as possible to help. many voices are better than one and more people equal more skill sets.
I also agree with HH, have a clear problem. You will find this will help get people behind you.
Helmet Head
I don't know what you're getting at here. Yeah poor road conditions are a hazard.
Why are poor road conditions a hazard? What might happen due to poor road conditions that wouldn't happen if the road conditions were not poor? Is it bad? How bad? How likely is it to happen? Know the problem you're trying to solve. Be able to describe the problem you are trying to solve.
Does this discourage cycling? I do not know. Does the speed motorists drive discourage cycling? I do not know. Does the lack of facilities do the same? Again I do not know. The answer could be yes these thigs do discourage cycling. If it does then correcting these things will encourage cycling. If these things do not discourage cycling just make it difficult then correcting them will simply make cycling better. I do not have the time nor the patience to conduct a study as to whether or not these things do discourage cycling.
That's fine, but then you cannot have a compelling argument advocating for these changes based on these reasons. So, then, what are the reasons that you can use as a basis? What I'm looking for is: X is a problem. X is a problem because of a, b, c. X can be solved by doing Z. Doing Z will solve X because blah, blah, blah.
I see these problems as a cyclist because they directly affect me when I ride & others I ride with. I will stop short of saying I am working to improve these things for my benefit & the benefit of other existing cyclists in my community. I hope it has a greater impact then that. I hope it encourages more people who are not cyclists to get out & ride & become cyclists. If it does not, ok at least things improved for the existing cyclists.
I am trying to get you to describe succinctly and precisely the problem(s) you are trying to solve.
If you think you've already done that, please copy/paste the relevant words from this thread into your reply to this post.
If not, please let me know what they are.
chipcom
I'm getting some popcorn. It was just a matter of time. HH vs N_C - just when you thought it was safe to go back into A&S.
CrosseyedCrickt
yeah, all we need now is for Sarge to return
I-Like-To-Bike
I'm getting some popcorn. It was just a matter of time. HH vs N_C - just when you thought it was safe to go back into A&S.
Hey this is classic A&S. I still have some cheese doodles left over after the Super Bowl. Godzilla vs. Megalon have got nothing on this duo for entertainment value.
BTW Good Buddy; Your avatar has become veddy, veddy interesting! Tee Hee.
derath
BTW Good Buddy; Your avatar has become veddy, veddy interesting! Tee Hee.
Yeah, wassup with the new avatar? Trying to soften your image by holding a puppy?
-D
chipcom
Hey this is classic A&S. I still have some cheese doodles left over after the Super Bowl. Godzilla vs. Megalon have got nothing on this duo for entertainment value.
BTW Good Buddy; Your avatar has become veddy, veddy interesting! Tee Hee.
Butt Buddy! How ya doin man? Which one of us is the 'reacher' and the 'reachee' today? :love:
chipcom
Yeah, wassup with the new avatar? Trying to soften your image by holding a puppy?
That's Thor, Dawg of Thunder. I figured I needed a bodyguard. :D
Falkon has already done an interesting swapperoo with it for his avatar that made me snort milk all over my keyboard.
I-Like-To-Bike
Butt Buddy! How ya doin man? Which one of us is the 'reacher' and the 'reachee' today? :love:
Yikes! Don't open that can of worms! http://www.majordickwinters.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/eusa_naughty.gif One of the posters on A & S isn't too stable and might get ideas.
derath
Waiting for the "Taking a more agressive & pro-active approach II" thread to start.
-D
chipcom
We musta come in at the intermission.
N_C
I have explained what some of the problems are. I don't have enough time to list them all. If HH or anyone else does not understand this then sorry but these are some of the problems plain & simple I don't know how else to explain it. Things are being done to correct these problems.
chipcom
I have explained what some of the problems are. I don't have enough time to list them all. If HH or anyone else does not understand this then sorry but these are some of the problems plain & simple I don't know how else to explain it. Things are being done to correct these problems.
Don't feel bad...you think talking to me is frustrating? When it comes to discussing cycling facilities and advocacy, HH will make you want to bang your head against the wall while slitting your wrists. Avoid talking bike lanes and driver education and you might make it out just slightly scarred. ;)
joejack951
I have explained what some of the problems are. I don't have enough time to list them all. If HH or anyone else does not understand this then sorry but these are some of the problems plain & simple I don't know how else to explain it. Things are being done to correct these problems.
So do you plan on putting as much effort into your advocacy work as you've shown here in this thread or do you plan on taking things a little more seriously in the real world? Did any of HH's questions at least get you thinking about how to present your argument? I would hope so. If you've noticed, he's trying to get you thinking like the average road user who has no idea what effects certain roadway designs or conditions have on a cyclist. You'll need to sell your ideas to people like that if you want to make any changes. Do you really thinking Joe Schmoe Pickmeup Driver has thought about has parallel bar drainage grates might affect a cyclist? These are the types of details you'll need to provide so that the work that is done actually makes a difference. Judging by your last statement though it sounds like the ball is already rolling.
N_C
Don't feel bad...you think talking to me is frustrating? When it comes to discussing cycling facilities and advocacy, HH will make you want to bang your head against the wall while slitting your wrists. Avoid talking bike lanes and driver education and you might make it out just slightly scarred. ;)
As a former politician, or is it once a politician always a polictician, did you ever have to deal with an advocacy organization or individual asking for a Complete Streets Policy, that a roadway be put on a diet, that funding be requested for a Safe Routes To School program, or something similar? If none of these, then anything at all regarding bicycle facilties or advocacy? If you did have to deal with it what happened?
Helmet Head
N_C, regardless of the context, it is always important to ask, and be able to answer, "What problem are we trying to solve?" It's not as easy as it it sounds, but it's essential to answer before moving on to thinking about solutions... Otherwise, you don't really know what problem you're trying to solve, and, so have no way to know where to start, or when you're done, or anything in between.
Give it some thought, and another shot. You'll be glad you did.
chipcom
As a former politician, or is it once a politician always a polictician, did you ever have to deal with an advocacy organization or individual asking for a Complete Streets Policy, that a roadway be put on a diet, that funding be requested for a Safe Routes To School program, or something similar? If none of these, then anything at all regarding bicycle facilties or advocacy? If you did have to deal with it what happened?
I had to deal with the rebuilding of our entire main street and all the competing factions who had their own ideas what it should look like. Unfortunately, despite my own cycling lifestyle, the cycling 'advocates' were split between those who wanted bike lanes and those who vehemently opposed them, preferring just wide lanes. Both sides came off as extremists who refused to compromise. In the end, because the 'advocates' spent so much time bickering amongst themselves and could not compromise, the project had no bike lanes and instead of wide outside lanes, medians were installed with trees and shrubs (the beautification folks DID have their act together) that died and fell into disrepair within a year of planting.
The moral of the story - if you want to get something done, you have to have the support of people and organizations that have proven voting power, speak with a unified voice, and are willing to compromise and accept long term solutions rather than getting everything they want in the short term. In short you gotta have your ducks in line and the right people/groups behind you....which means sometimes you gotta give them something in return for their support.
As much as I pick on HH, having a debate in here with him and everyone else can only help you to get your ducks in line...if you can't articulate the plan and it's long and short term benefits and have options for the potential roadblocks and pitfalls, you won't have credibility - but the political part, building consensus and gathering support, is something you can only do there, on the ground. Now, to be brutally honest...I think your skills in that area need improvement - a diplomat you are not You tend to give the perception that you are tooting your own horn and that people who do not agree with you are the enemy. That doesn't cut it when you are trying to get people to do something that might be easier for them not to bother with. You gotta make it easier to do what you want than not to, you gotta stroke em and cuddle em and treat em like they are your best friend.
You have to persuade the right people to support what you want done, not by trying to sell them on what YOU believe, but by showing them how it meets THEIR wants, needs and goals, even leading them to think some things are their own ideas, rather than yours, allowing them to take credit, whether it is due or not, and giving up non-core pieces of your plan as trade-offs to help them soothe the interests of their own constituencies. Indeed, sometimes it's better to let others, with more power, skill and influence, take the lead to push the project through and take the credit, even if you are still the one doing all the grunt work. Sometimes you get more done by pushing and prodding behind the scenes rather than trying to take the lead and make your face the public face. If you want credit, you're going to be disappointed...credit goes to those pretty folks with the smiles and charisma that makes people like them and want to follow them. Like me, you ain't one of those people, so you gotta be the one who pulls their strings behind the scenes and get your satisfaction from seeing the job get done.
You know me, I don't pull any punches, I call em like I see em, so don't get offended by me telling you straight. Others will have other advice...look at what they are saying, rather than how they say it and how it affects your ego. You think ILTB and me always got along? Ha, we used to tear each other apart until we got past the egos and saw that we agreed more than we disagreed and were spending more time attacking each other rather than listening to what the other was saying. Sometimes you gotta look past how something is said to understand what is being said.
Helmet Head
As much as I pick on HH, having a debate in here with him...
For the record, there is no debate between N_C and me. There is nothing to debate.
I'm just trying to help N_C think a little deeper about what he is doing, and why.
chipcom
For the record, there is no debate between N_C and me. There is nothing to debate.
I'm just trying to help N_C think a little deeper about what he is doing, and why.
Ok discussion....or inquisition...it all has value.
Helmet Head
Ok discussion....or inquisition...it all has value.
Hopefully. Depending on whether N_C does the thinking and writes out his answers...
Bekologist
HH, looking at the issues N_C faces in Iowa is not viewable as a problem/solution equasion. it is a quality issue.
quality of life, quality of community. quality of riding.
Problem/solution is dichotomous and does NOT address what N_C is looking at. Status Quo versus improvements in quality of non motorized transportation infrastructure, N_C.
Don't listen to HH, he's the anti-cyclist. he's just mining for information to use against community bicycling advocacy, bro.
Bekologist
Waiting for the "Taking a more agressive & pro-active approach II" thread to start.
-D
Wouldn't that be a loaded Helmet Head poll on "taking a more proactive approach" with a leading question and skewed anwsers, Derath?
N_C
I had to deal with the rebuilding of our entire main street and all the competing factions who had their own ideas what it should look like. Unfortunately, despite my own cycling lifestyle, the cycling 'advocates' were split between those who wanted bike lanes and those who vehemently opposed them, preferring just wide lanes. Both sides came off as extremists who refused to compromise. In the end, because the 'advocates' spent so much time bickering amongst themselves and could not compromise, the project had no bike lanes and instead of wide outside lanes, medians were installed with trees and shrubs (the beautification folks DID have their act together) that died and fell into disrepair within a year of planting.
The moral of the story - if you want to get something done, you have to have the support of people and organizations that have proven voting power, speak with a unified voice, and are willing to compromise and accept long term solutions rather than getting everything they want in the short term. In short you gotta have your ducks in line and the right people/groups behind you....which means sometimes you gotta give them something in return for their support.
As much as I pick on HH, having a debate in here with him and everyone else can only help you to get your ducks in line...but the political part, building consensus and gathering support, is something you can only do there, on the ground. Now, to be brutally honest...I think your skills in that area need improvement - a diplomat you are not You tend to give the perception that you are tooting your own horn and that people who do not agree with you are the enemy. That doesn't cut it when you are trying to get people to do something that might be easier for them not to bother with. You gotta make it easier to do what you want than not to, you gotta stroke em and cuddle em and treat em like they are your best friend.
You have to persuade the right people to support what you want done, not by trying to sell them on what YOU believe, but by showing them how it meets THEIR wants, needs and goals, even leading them to think some things are their own ideas, rather than yours, allowing them to take credit, whether it is due or not, and giving up non-core pieces of your plan as trade-offs to help them soothe the interests of their own constituencies. Indeed, sometimes it's better to let others, with more power, skill and influence, take the lead to push the project through and take the credit, even if you are still the one doing all the grunt work. Sometimes you get more done by pushing and prodding behind the scenes rather than trying to take the lead and make your face the public face. If you want credit, you're going to be disappointed...credit goes to those pretty folks with the smiles and charisma that makes people like them and want to follow them. Like me, you ain't one of those people, so you gotta be the one who pulls their strings behind the scenes and get your satisfaction from seeing the job get done.
You know me, I don't pull any punches, I call em like I see em, so don't get offended by me telling you straight. Others will have other advice...look at what they are saying, rather than how they say it and how it affects your ego. You think ILTB and me always got along? Ha, we used to tear each other apart until we got past the egos and saw that we agreed more than we disagreed and were spending more time attacking each other rather than listening to what the other was saying. Sometimes you gotta look past how something is said to understand what is being said.
In other words you're saying in part I gotta kiss ass to get what I need done, done? Sorry I don't do that, My own personal ethics & values will not allow me to be a kiss ass. I will leave up to other like minded folks. Meaning others in the Siouxland Trails Foundation, or STF, there are a few who have no problem doing that & they know I do.
You're also saying I need to be a salesman. That game I am really good at, I do it for a living. Basically I tell a customer what they need based on what they voluntarily tell me by answering questions I ask, then I say ok, let's make this happen & I usually get the sale.
Thankfully I do have the support of the STF & at least have the ear of the Parks & Rec. Dept. & it would probably not be too much of a stretch to gain the attention of other city depts. Or for the STF board, these are the fine folks who tend to be the ass kissers, to do so. As you may have noticed I am not very tactfull when it comes to this, it is not a strong suit anyway. I present the ideas & why I think it should be done, then others take it from there. One differance though, compared to last year is I now follow up on the progress on what is being done. Last year I did not do that & some things fell by the wayside. there is also such a thing as too much ass kissing & compromise as what happened with the bridge project. I will now make sure I am involved to try to ensure this does not happen again.
N_C
Here is what I have done so far regarding the 3 things I am currently focusing on.
First I asked what will it take to adopt a Complete Streets Policy. What more needs to be done? I asked if we need to bring the MPO, the city council, the parks & rec. dept. & the STF together for a sit down to discuss this & make it happen. I did not state the info. is not doing any good sitting in a file somewhere. I controlled myself in this respect, though I wanted to say it. I am awaiting an answer on what more needs to be done to adopt a Complete Streets Policy. I hope it is being researched & worked on & I will follow up on it.
Second I asked if we are starting with Unity Elementary School regarding a Safe Routes To School & will work our way from there. I mentioned it is a good idea to start with one, see how well it works & then go from there. I also advised that I will be contacting the Catholic Diocese & other private schools to bring this idea to their attention as well.
Finally I advised that I think Riveside Blvd should be put on a road diet & suggested how easy it is to do so & what can be done regarding this & that if does not work it can easily be changed back. I await a response to that. Again I will follow up with this. I did cite personal experiences & examples for myself & others in STF I have ridden bike with on R'side Blvd as part of the reasons for putting it on a diet. But I did not let personal emotions cloud my judgement on this, no matter how passionate I may feel about it.
Leaving personal emotions out of the equation is sometimes difficult to do & I have to bite my tongue at times.
N_C
HH, looking at the issues N_C faces in Iowa is not viewable as a problem/solution equasion. it is a quality issue.
quality of life, quality of community. quality of riding.
Problem/solution is dichotomous and does NOT address what N_C is looking at. Status Quo versus improvements in quality of non motorized transportation infrastructure, N_C.
Don't listen to HH, he's the anti-cyclist. he's just mining for information to use against community bicycling advocacy, bro.
A better qualtiy of life is exactly what myself & STF are trying to accomplish here.
What has happened is Sioux City has suffered economically for a long time. Now things are really turning around. There are new businesses moving in, new shopping facilties being constructed, new housing being built, etc. Unfortunatley though the Parks & Rec. has been left by the way side during all of this when it should have been involved & included in the construction process. Who knows? Maybe a new city park could have & could still be added as a result. Along with that are the bicycle facilities as well. Now it seems we need to play catch up to make sure bike facilities are at least required to be considered when the existing projects continue & new projects are started.
I-Like-To-Bike
In other words you're saying in part I gotta kiss ass to get what I need done, done? Sorry I don't do that, My own personal ethics & values will not allow me to be a kiss ass.
Chipcom,
This is the response to your well thought out and sincere recommendations. Quite the diplomat, eh?:rolleyes:
My recommendation to you - don't waste time on this "ethical" hard case.
derath
Wouldn't that be a loaded Helmet Head poll on "taking a more proactive approach" with a leading question and skewed anwsers, Derath?
Sorry Bek, but you missed the joke. But that is ok, you weren't around earlier to know what I was talking about.
Shame too, cause it was pretty funny.
-D
chipcom
In other words you're saying in part I gotta kiss ass to get what I need done, done? Sorry I don't do that, My own personal ethics & values will not allow me to be a kiss ass. I will leave up to other like minded folks. Meaning others in the Siouxland Trails Foundation, or STF, there are a few who have no problem doing that & they know I do.
You're also saying I need to be a salesman. That game I am really good at, I do it for a living. Basically I tell a customer what they need based on what they voluntarily tell me by answering questions I ask, then I say ok, let's make this happen & I usually get the sale.
There is a difference between kissing butt and stroking ego...as a salesman you should know this, if you want to participate in the political arena, it's a requirement.
N_C
There is a difference between kissing butt and stroking ego...as a salesman you should know this, if you want to participate in the political arena, it's a requirement.
You see kissing butt & stroking ego as 2 differant things, I see it as the same. Kind of a you say tomato & I say tamato, that's fine. As a salesman I do know this, but I try not to do it. Do I lose sales as a result? Yes. Am I one of the top sales people in my office? No. Because I personally think it is deaming to stroke ego's or kiss butt I am not as an aggressive salesman as I could be.
I am however very good at doing research, presenting the ideas & letting others stroke the ego's & kiss butts. I don't mind if those that do the stroking & kissing take the credit for it. I don't need recognition to feel good about doing something like this. I personally think that those that stroke & kiss need to feel good by taking the credit because maybe they feel uncomfortable with kissing & stroking in the first place. So they need something to offset it, ie taking credit, I don't have a problem with that.
Because I would rather not play in the political arena I'll stick with the researching & presenting of ideas end of it.
BTW, no offense meant with my response to yours when I said "you're saying I need to kiss ass". Like you I call it as I see it & try not to pull punches.
Bekologist
you cannot negotiate a weak position with strongarm tactics, N_C.
You need to sell the others on the sundry advantages 'bikethink' will bring your community.
N_C
you cannot negotiate a weak position with strongarm tactics, N_C.
You need to sell the others on the sundry advantages 'bikethink' will bring your community.
Correct. That is why I am better at doing the research, presenting it to the appropriate people & letting them do the stroking & kissing in the political arena. It is also why the research I do needs to be the correct research & accurate. There is such a thing as too much research though. But I have yet to have that happen.
Bekologist
"bikethink" can and will have positive effects on sioux city, N_C.
Help make it happen!!!! you da man...
chipcom
Well do as you please, but remember that you gotta convince them butt-kissers to go out and do their butt-kissing for what YOU want them to be kissing butt for...rather than what someone else, maybe those opposed to your idea, ARE kissing THEIR butts for.
Look at it this way...which is more important, the issue you are trying to advance, or your own pride and vanity? Nobody's saying to compromise core principles, just to be nice and make people feel good about themselves. Another rule of getting things done....you gotta check your ego at the door.
Helmet Head
HH, looking at the issues N_C faces in Iowa is not viewable as a problem/solution equasion. it is a quality issue.
quality of life, quality of community. quality of riding.
Problem/solution is dichotomous and does NOT address what N_C is looking at. Status Quo versus improvements in quality of non motorized transportation infrastructure, N_C.
Don't listen to HH, he's the anti-cyclist. he's just mining for information to use against community bicycling advocacy, bro.
Everything can be viewed as a problem/solution.
For example, making chocolate chip cookies solves the problem of a desire for something warm, crispy, sweet and chocolaty being unfulfilled.
"Quality issues" are about the problem of the level of quality of something being too low. Such a problem needs to be described in terms of what it is that has a quality level that is too low, what that level is currently, explaining the ramifications of that quality being as low as it is, what benefits there would be from higher quality, what that higher level should be, and why.
In this case, understanding the problem(s) that you (N_C) want solved is only the first step.
Understanding the problem(s) that others want solved is also essential.
Ultimately, you want to identify and propose solutions that solve their problems as well as yours, with emphasis on how they solve their problems (assuming they could care less about your problems, unless they happen to be the same).
It's not about "kissing butt". It's about working together with those whose cooperation you require to solve your problems.
Thinking in terms of problem(s)/solution(s) is essential to accomplishing that.
N_C
Here is the email I sent to the STF secretary & president & the parks & rec. director of Sioux City:
****,
Will you please send this to everyone in the foundation?
This is a trailer to a 90 min. video called Contested Streets. While Sioux City does not have as bad of a problem with congestion as other larger cities the problem is still there, just on a smaller scale, that could become larger as the city grows. We need to think of ways to reclaim our public spaces in this community, beyond what we are already doing.
Please watch the short trailer & I will do what I can to obtain the full version of the video. The trailer shows some really great ideas of what has happened in other cites around the world that Sioux City should use as a model.
I think part of this includes having a Complete Streets Policy & Safe Routes to School for all of the schools in Sioux City, both public & private. If we work on melding together Complete Streets, Safe Routes to School & reclaiming the public spaces this community will be a whole lot better for it. We need to adopt a new perspective & get rid of the old traditional way of thinking when it comes to infrastructure, like roadway construction. So what do you say? let's think about ways to do this using the info. in the web sites below.
We have made a good start on some of these things. But so much more needs to be done. Even if it is utilizing ourselves as a think-tank just to come up with ideas for a later time. But there are things that should be done right away. The first of which is a Complete Streets Policy.
So help me out here. Let's do what we can to make this happen. Who's on board?
What do you think? I did the research & presented the ideas. Didn't really stroke any ego's or kiss butt, didn't have to. That is up to others to get these ideas implemented. I hope it happens.
One other thing I have heard & get the feeling there are those in the foundation who think our focus should be on the trails only & not other facilties. At times this attitude has almost made me want to stop my efforts. So far there has not been any in-fighting over the issue & I hope there isn't any.