Alright, San Francisco.... Critical Mass. I understand, the city isn't very good for cyclists. Actually, it's terrible for a a city that's trying to be so energy efficient. I understand your movement. Does blocking traffic once a month solve that? I don't think so, because people see it coming.... and it's gone the next day. Business as usual. IMO, it's more for fun than it is for some sort of movement. Not saying I'm right, that's just the way I see it.
Alright, Berkeley? We have bike lanes, bicycle boulevards, and pretty well lit streets. Why do we have a critical mass? I stay off Shattuck, San Pablo, University and sidewalks. Every other street is pretty damn biker friendly. So.... what exactly are you fighting for? Do you just want to block traffic? Yes, the drivers are downright terrible... blame the DMV for that.
Does anyone just ride their bike not only for commuting, but just because it's fun and enjoyable? No agenda, no politcal statement, no feeling to block traffic to get a point across to a community that bikes exist, but just biking because you actually like biking more than driving?
I dunno, I just have this feeling that even if a city were to surrender to a Critical Mass, the Critical Mass would still exist... just with a different agenda of some sort.
Drunken ramble... but just how I see it. Bicycle safety and education about the laws of riding and wearing helmets... hell yeah. All for that. Maybe Critical Mass in a way encourages people to join some sort of bicycling community. I'd be down with that movement... it's just advertised poorly.
Edit: I hit something funky and discontorted the text. Yes, I just used "discontorted" in a sentence.
ken cummings
02-06-07, 03:29 AM
I can understand SF, it was laid out by a man who did not know it had serious hills. Berkley was saner.
chipcom
02-06-07, 05:56 AM
Does anyone just ride their bike not only for commuting, but just because it's fun and enjoyable?
I would imagine most ride because it's fun without some wacky political agenda behind it.
slowandsteady
02-06-07, 06:34 AM
Does anyone just ride their bike not only for commuting, but just because it's fun and enjoyable?
It is a toy. It is for playing. There are legitimate political issues. This ain't it.
I don't enjoy biking more than driving. I don't enjoy driving more than biking. They are mutually exclusive. I don't understand why some people feel there needs to be some sort of rivalry between the two. I love my horse too. But I am not going to start riding it to work or the grocery store or start blocking traffic with it.
Tom Stormcrowe
02-06-07, 06:51 AM
It is a toy. It is for playing. There are legitimate political issues. This ain't it.
I don't enjoy biking more than driving. I don't enjoy driving more than biking. They are mutually exclusive. I don't understand why some people feel there needs to be some sort of rivalry between the two. I love my horse too. But I am not going to start riding it to work or the grocery store or start blocking traffic with it.
I don't consider a bike a toy, it's transportation, exercise, vacation travel...in short, a lifestyle.
N_C
02-06-07, 07:16 AM
Everytime I ride I have some sort of agenda, though not a political one. My agenda is for fun, to get to my destination when I am commuting, to complete a charity ride & once a year to complete RAGBRAI.
slowandsteady
02-06-07, 07:44 AM
I don't consider a bike a toy, it's transportation, exercise, vacation travel...in short, a lifestyle.
My car is a toy too.
A lifestyle is behavioral. A bicycle is just a tool.
For example. I have a small hobby farm. My lifestyle is to raise small farm animals and to be somewhat self sufficient in regards to providing myself with food that isn't prepackaged. That is the lifestyle. Whether I go about doing this with goats, chickens, and corn or ducks, cows, and wheat is irrelevent.
Your lifestyle and values are ones of transportation, exercise and travel. You enjoy using a bike as one of the tools, but the bike itself is just a hunk of metal. How many hunks of metal are sitting in people's garages as we speak who do not share your values of transportation, exercise and travel? The bike itself is irrelevent. It can't make people have these values. It can't make people get off their butts and move. That comes from within.
rando
02-06-07, 07:46 AM
yES!
genec
02-06-07, 08:02 AM
I aways have an "agenda" be it exercise, transportation, or just simple fun (wanting to feel the sun in my face and the wind in my hair).
crtreedude
02-06-07, 08:05 AM
Efficiency is my agenda. I don't like to wait for my wife when going to the office. I don't like to leave when she does, I don't like having two vehicles. And I don't want to have to figure out when I am going to have time to excercise.
It does cause comment when people see us leave and return at the same time - her in the car, I am on the bike.
chipcom
02-06-07, 08:48 AM
It does cause comment when people see us leave and return at the same time - her in the car, I am on the bike.
el patron es muy puto - pedaling his butt all over the village :D
Helmet Head
02-06-07, 09:44 AM
I almost always have an agenda, like to get to a certain destination within a certain amount of time.
eubi
02-06-07, 09:46 AM
I like to interest Scouts in bicycling. So most of my "recreational rides" are with them.
Agenda: Hopefully a few of them will enjoy cycling enough to continue it after Scouts.
I am an overweight tightwad. Scrooge was a spendthrift. So I bike as part of my daily commute.
Agenda: Save money and get slimmer.
But I never thought of cycling that way until this thread.
fordfasterr
02-06-07, 09:47 AM
My agenda is to: KILL KILL KILL !
chipcom
02-06-07, 09:48 AM
My agenda is to: KILL KILL KILL !
That breath 'll do it. :eek:
Ed Holland
02-06-07, 09:51 AM
Yes, I just ride. To and from work, to the tune of 100+ miles/week and for recreation when I get the time.
Thats it as far as I'm concerned, although its cheaper to commute by bike, and healthier too.
Ed
SingingSabre
02-06-07, 10:34 AM
I ride it for commuting...because it's more fun than driving.
rando
02-06-07, 11:46 AM
actually I guess I do have an agenda-- I bike commute, so for transportation, exercise and fun.
crtreedude
02-06-07, 11:51 AM
Yes, the patron gets looks - but it sure makes the workers proud that I am tougher than any of them. In a farm community, you don't want to be a wimp.
bikedaddy
02-06-07, 12:26 PM
I do it for the babes!
banerjek
02-06-07, 01:38 PM
I would imagine most ride because it's fun without some wacky political agenda behind it.
People already think I'm nuts. No need to actually be one.
richardmasoner
02-06-07, 02:01 PM
Does blocking traffic once a month solve that?
That's kind of the point of CM -- people in their cars block other traffic every day of the week. Rush hour traffic is a critical mass of cars on the roads. So cyclists do it once a month and big deal.
RFM
slowandsteady
02-06-07, 02:24 PM
That's kind of the point of CM -- people in their cars block other traffic every day of the week. Rush hour traffic is a critical mass of cars on the roads. So cyclists do it once a month and big deal.
RFM
Ah, the two wrongs make a right logic. I see.
chipcom
02-06-07, 02:27 PM
That's kind of the point of CM -- people in their cars block other traffic every day of the week. Rush hour traffic is a critical mass of cars on the roads. So cyclists do it once a month and big deal.
RFM
Too bad the motorists are pretty much clueless to CM's alleged intentions and message and see it as yet another reason to get us off the roads, rather than sharing them. With friends like this, cyclists don't need enemies. Perhaps if they spent more time trying to communicate the underlying message and less time ticking off motorists in a vaccum, they might make some progress...but I suspect that like many political groups, their vested interest lies in ensuring the problem perpetuates, rather than solving it.
oneredstar
02-06-07, 02:43 PM
I ride with an agenda at times and at others I am just out to have fun. I fully support what Critical Mass is doing. I know that many people have issues with it, but I think it has its place. I have never been to a Bay area critical mass but I assume it is quite large and has an active group of participants. I live in such a small city with non-progressive view points that I was actually kicked out of a Critical Mass for taking up another lane, I found it amusing but still throw my support behind the movement.
TRaffic Jammer
02-06-07, 02:49 PM
I don't ride with an agenda, a diary, or a day planner, but I do carry my laptop. :)
I love to ride, it's really that simple....the rest is gravy.
banerjek
02-06-07, 03:09 PM
...but I suspect that like many political groups, their vested interest lies in ensuring the problem perpetuates, rather than solving it.
"Oceania has ALWAYS been at war with East Asia!"
Large Font
02-06-07, 03:17 PM
It is a toy. It is for playing. There are legitimate political issues. This ain't it.
I don't enjoy biking more than driving. I don't enjoy driving more than biking. They are mutually exclusive. I don't understand why some people feel there needs to be some sort of rivalry between the two. I love my horse too. But I am not going to start riding it to work or the grocery store or start blocking traffic with it.
A bike is a toy if you are rich, or live in a rich country. In the rest of the world a bike is transport.
Population of China; over 1 billion.
Most popular form of transport; Bike
Population of USA; 300 Million.
Most popular form of transport; personal car
Country with the most bikes; USA (hanging on garage walls?)
lyeinyoureye
02-06-07, 06:02 PM
"Oceania has ALWAYS been at war with East Asia!"
:roflmao:
RomSpaceKnight
02-06-07, 08:06 PM
I am extremely militant at times. Give me an excuse and I block traffic, kick and pound on cars, walk over their front hoods and lean in through windows and scream obscenities at them. Lucliky Cnada has strict gun control laws. And I do need an excuse for this behaviour, usually I am retaliating in kind.
Blue Order
02-06-07, 08:18 PM
Well, of course I ride WITH an agenda. When I ride, I'm not polluting; when I ride, I'm not burning fossil fuels and contributing to global warming; when I ride, I'm making my city more liveable; when I ride, I'm taking care of my personal health, and having a blast.
Of course I have an agenda.
Blue Order
02-06-07, 08:20 PM
Too bad the motorists are pretty much clueless to CM's alleged intentions and message and see it as yet another reason to get us off the roads, rather than sharing them. With friends like this, cyclists don't need enemies. Perhaps if they spent more time trying to communicate the underlying message and less time ticking off motorists in a vaccum, they might make some progress...but I suspect that like many political groups, their vested interest lies in ensuring the problem perpetuates, rather than solving it.+1
Tapeworm21
02-06-07, 09:52 PM
Well, of course I ride WITH an agenda. When I ride, I'm not polluting; when I ride, I'm not burning fossil fuels and contributing to global warming; when I ride, I'm making my city more liveable; when I ride, I'm taking care of my personal health, and having a blast.
Of course I have an agenda.
No, you're doing nothing for the environment. If EVERYONE were like you, ok... it might be a little less smoggy. But in reality, nobody is saying to themselves, "Wow, the air feels a little cleaner, Blue Order must be on his bike again today." You're not polluting for transportation, but how much does the factory that made your bike pollute? What about heating your apartment/house? They burn fuel just to deliver that bag of Organic Tortillas you bought today. There's no way around it... biking has such a SLIGHT SLIGHT factor on pollution it doesn't even matter. The only positives to your riding is for your own personal health and you're having fun... hell yeah!
Blue Order
02-06-07, 10:14 PM
No, you're doing nothing for the environment. If EVERYONE were like you, ok... it might be a little less smoggy. But in reality, nobody is saying to themselves, "Wow, the air feels a little cleaner, Blue Order must be on his bike again today." You're not polluting for transportation, but how much does the factory that made your bike pollute? What about heating your apartment/house? They burn fuel just to deliver that bag of Organic Tortillas you bought today. There's no way around it... biking has such a SLIGHT SLIGHT factor on pollution it doesn't even matter. The only positives to your riding is for your own personal health and you're having fun... hell yeah!I am emitting several tons of carbon less each year than I would be if I drove. Of course I'm having an impact. Not enough to offset all of the negative impact everybody else is having, but certainly enough to make a lighter footprint for myself. And if everybody got on a bike, there would be a cumulative offset that would make a difference. Every time I ride, or walk, instead of driving, I'm showing somebody else that it can be done.
UmneyDurak
02-06-07, 10:40 PM
I actually saw CM in Berkeley, when going through Sproul on my way back from a training ride. Seemed more about celebration of cycling, and having friendly fun. I saw all sorts of bikes. People were friendly and would chat with anyone! I rode on shattuck multiple times. Seemed fine to me.
This is more aimed towards the bay area.
Alright, San Francisco.... Critical Mass. I understand, the city isn't very good for cyclists. Actually, it's terrible for a a city that's trying to be so energy efficient. I understand your movement. Does blocking traffic once a month solve that? I don't think so, because people see it coming.... and it's gone the next day. Business as usual. IMO, it's more for fun than it is for some sort of movement. Not saying I'm right, that's just the way I see it.
Alright, Berkeley? We have bike lanes, bicycle boulevards, and pretty well lit streets. Why do we have a critical mass? I stay off Shattuck, San Pablo, University and sidewalks. Every other street is pretty damn biker friendly. So.... what exactly are you fighting for? Do you just want to block traffic? Yes, the drivers are downright terrible... blame the DMV for that.
Does anyone just ride their bike not only for commuting, but just because it's fun and enjoyable? No agenda, no politcal statement, no feeling to block traffic to get a point across to a community that bikes exist, but just biking because you actually like biking more than driving?
I dunno, I just have this feeling that even if a city were to surrender to a Critical Mass, the Critical Mass would still exist... just with a different agenda of some sort.
Drunken ramble... but just how I see it. Bicycle safety and education about the laws of riding and wearing helmets... hell yeah. All for that. Maybe Critical Mass in a way encourages people to join some sort of bicycling community. I'd be down with that movement... it's just advertised poorly.
Edit: I hit something funky and discontorted the text. Yes, I just used "discontorted" in a sentence.
Big_knob
02-07-07, 12:29 AM
This is more aimed towards the bay area.
Alright, Berkeley? We have bike lanes, bicycle boulevards, and pretty well lit streets. Why do we have a critical mass? I stay off Shattuck, San Pablo, University and sidewalks. Every other street is pretty damn biker friendly.
All of that list really mean nothing,adds up to squat.
Although maybe a white line(bicycle lane) does make make some people feel safer & isolated from rolling 3,000 LB battering rams:rolleyes:
Lit streets? Heh, i would rather be in the dark streets with bright lights on the bike.
I am sure probaly more people are hit in the day than at night. Googleabulous!
As far as sidewalks go, i ride them all the time.usually 17 to 20+ MPH.
MOst of the time in the urban ride i use the Delta air horn to let people know i am approaching.
Does anyone just ride their bike not only for commuting, but just because it's fun and enjoyable?
Yep.
Blue Order
02-07-07, 03:29 PM
Lit streets? Heh, i would rather be in the dark streets with bright lights on the bike.
I am sure probaly more people are hit in the day than at night.Absolutely backwards. Most bicycle accidents occur at night.
slowandsteady
02-07-07, 03:42 PM
Absolutely backwards. Most bicycle accidents occur at night.
Most bicycle accidents happen whenever the BMX'rs are riding.
Big_knob
02-07-07, 05:20 PM
Absolutely backwards. Most bicycle accidents occur at night.
Not around here. Which would make sense for everywhere anyways since the highest amount of traffic is in the day.
All my Bike/auto kisses have happened in the day & i do do quite a bit of night riding also.
Big_knob
02-07-07, 05:27 PM
Most bicycle accidents happen whenever the BMX'rs are riding.
:rolleyes:
Funny you mention that though , i plowed into one of them a couple of months ago.
there was two of them doing hops not paying attention to surroundings. they were not initially in the way but i yelled "on your left" anyways one of them looked.. then low & behold the other kid coasted right in front of me! T-boned him but good!
Knocked him & bike about 3 ft & flat on his *****...lol
on initial impact my rear wheel went up what felt like about 2 ft. but managed to keep from endoeing.
He was laying there looking up at me with this bewildered look as i was helping him up & making sure he was alright i gave him a good pep talk mentioning to him next time it may just be a 3,000 lb battering ram instead of a 200 lb rolling knob.
the time of collision: day time.:)
Blue Order
02-07-07, 05:47 PM
Not around here. Which would make sense for everywhere anyways since the highest amount of traffic is in the day.
All my Bike/auto kisses have happened in the day & i do do quite a bit of night riding also.For purposes of statistics, nobody cares about when all of YOUR accidents have happened. It's irrelevant information. Statistically speaking, MOST bicycle accidents happen at night.
Helmet Head
02-07-07, 05:52 PM
I'd like to know how cyclists with properly lighted/reflected bikes fare at night vs cyclists during the day.
I suspect the skew at night is due mostly to dark cycling. Take them out of the equation and night cycling might actually be safer, except that there are probably more drunk/sleepy drivers and cyclists then too.
Big_knob
02-07-07, 05:53 PM
For purposes of statistics, nobody cares about when all of YOUR accidents have happened. It's irrelevant information. Statistically speaking, MOST bicycle accidents happen at night.
You have proof? show me proof!
you think that i don't count in your great statistics?
EVERYONE is SUPPOSED to be included in statistics.Some people are so hung up on reading garbage that they actually lose touch with actual reality:rolleyes:
you trying to start a tongue-fu war or something?:)
Blue Order
02-07-07, 05:55 PM
I'd like to know how cyclists with properly lighted/reflected bikes fare at night vs cyclists during the day.
I suspect the skew at night is due mostly to dark cycling. Take them out of the equation and night cycling might actually be safer, except that there are probably more drunk/sleepy drivers and cyclists then too.Yeah, I don't know if the statistics take lighted vs. dark cyclists into account. I suspect all of the factors you've mentioned skew the statistics towards nighttime riding.
here's another one: Most cycling fatalities involve DUI.
Helmet Head
02-07-07, 05:57 PM
here's another one: Most cycling fatalities involve DUI.
On the part of the motorist?
Big_knob
02-07-07, 06:06 PM
Yeah, I don't know if the statistics take lighted vs. dark cyclists into account.
Yeah, i am sure there is a lot of things you don't know,statistically speaking that is.:rolleyes:
Blue Order
02-07-07, 06:18 PM
You have proof? show me proof!I just did a quick search through the relevant book, and couldn't find it, but yes, I will present "proof" as soon as I can find the statistics in that book.
you think that i don't count in your great statistics?The FACT that your accidents have all happened during the day doesn't alter the FACT that most accidents have happened at night. You seem to think it does, for some unfathomable reason.
EVERYONE is SUPPOSED to be included in statistics.Some people are so hung up on reading garbage that they actually lose touch with actual reality:rolleyes:Your accidents are a drop in the bucket. Do you REALLY believe that the accidents that YOU personally have been involved in are so significant percentage-wise that the statistics are now skewed towards the day? Talk about losing touch with reality. :rolleyes:
Blue Order
02-07-07, 06:18 PM
Yeah, i am sure there is a lot of things you don't know,statistically speaking that is.:rolleyes:When you actually learn something about subjects you're speaking authoritatively about, please do let us know.
Blue Order
02-07-07, 06:19 PM
On the part of the motorist?That point isn't clear, from what I've read.
Tom Stormcrowe
02-07-07, 06:33 PM
My car is a toy too.
A lifestyle is behavioral. A bicycle is just a tool.
For example. I have a small hobby farm. My lifestyle is to raise small farm animals and to be somewhat self sufficient in regards to providing myself with food that isn't prepackaged. That is the lifestyle. Whether I go about doing this with goats, chickens, and corn or ducks, cows, and wheat is irrelevent.
Your lifestyle and values are ones of transportation, exercise and travel. You enjoy using a bike as one of the tools, but the bike itself is just a hunk of metal. How many hunks of metal are sitting in people's garages as we speak who do not share your values of transportation, exercise and travel? The bike itself is irrelevent. It can't make people have these values. It can't make people get off their butts and move. That comes from within.
Let me clarify for better accuracy then, it's a lifestyle CHOICE.