Classic & Vintage - 80s- and early 90s... do they belong here?
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I have been lurking for sometime now, and the past posts on this forum deals with very old, and even vintage bicycles.
I am a lover of the older bikes (late 80s, and early 90s) such as the Manitou Hardtails, the Ritchey P-series, the early steel Konas, the early bombproof XTRs, early Cook Bros cranks, Joe Murray, pre-Litespeed Merlins, pre-Trek Kleins, Fat Chance, Araya rims .....
So, do these belong here? :)
Ride hard, and ride safe!
Zeck, I'm not an expert on what is considered a classic. But mostly the classic term applies to early 80's on back and mostly Italian on the upper end, French and British bikes in the middle and Japanese and American made bikes filling out the bottom area. But any of these countries have had their bombs that would not make it. It's a combination of highend frames and highend components such as older top models of Campy Nuovo Record, Zues, Huret Jubilee, Simplex (non plastic). There is weak showing now for early 80's called lightweights from America and Japan with top line stuff from Suntour called Superbe and to a lessor degree Suntour Cyclone and Shimano 600. The only late 80's and early 90's stuff that might be considered of value is the bikes that are hand made such as Richard Sach, Rivendell, Henry James, and a few other small custom hand made bikes; but I believe even those would depreciate in value-just not as much as the production house bikes.
YAY my Trek's a classic! :D
05-08-03, 03:58 AM
If memory serves me, Classic Rendezvous, the largest classic/vintage group/forum around, has a cutoff date of '82. I posted a question last year on my '87 Paramount and got several unhappy letters about my "new" bike, etc., etc. So they are pretty serious about their cutoff dates. Our forum is considerably more relaxed on this (thankfully).
I think you can have vintage bikes and classic designs.
For example a Pedersen of any age I would consider a classic.
05-09-03, 12:07 PM
I subscribe to the Classic Rendezvous list but I don't think they have any kind of monopoly on what is or what is not "classic." Personally... I think the old Breezer, Ritchey, Chris Chance, etc MTB bikes are as classic as anything out there. These guys took old ideas and applied them to new modes of thinking and the results were responsible for shaping the future of the sport. I don't think it gets any more classic than that. I always thought of the term "classic" as having a timeless quality, personally. :D
The generally accepted rules are different for road bikes (pre-indexing, i.e., approximately pre-1984) than for mountain bikes (old-school, up to about 1992 or so). Therefore, I can reasonably claim that everything in my stable fits this category. (I don't think anyone would exclude my 44-year-old Capo, but I think the Schwinn mountain bike's chainstay-mounted U-brake qualifies it, as well.)
I believe that CR list has a 20 year cut off
(although there was some discussion about
indexed shifting etc.) then again as pointed out
above they do promote "keepers of the flame"
(i.e. lugged steel custom builders), Richard Sachs
would qualify but Ben Serotta wouldn't.
Yeah I think for here 80's to early 90's is
fair game for discussion.
05-19-03, 08:52 AM
Yeah... 20 years. My Trek is in but my Pinarello is not. Getting there though. Don't understand it myself. I mean... sure, I like old Motobecane and Raleigh as much as the next guy but stuff that Tom Ritchey and Serotta have turned out blow all but a select few of those bikes off the road. I just passed on picking up a Nova Special from the 80's and a Road Logic from the 90's last week. Waiting to find the right Chris Chance or Dave Tesch so me and the CR guys can have something to talk about ;)
05-19-03, 08:00 PM
There's a distinction between Classic and Vintage, isn't it?
Strictly speaking, any bike design that stood the test of time should be termed as a classic. As such, my 2000 Trek 520 is a classic because its design has evolved gradually over 20 years.
As for Vintage? I could suggest "old", but I could also suggest "no longer manufactured". On my 1980 tourer, I had parts like the Shimano Deore drivetrain that used Dynadrive pedals, a smaller chainring with an "obsolete" 86-mm bold circle, Weinmann centrepull brakes... all items that can't be replaced cheaply except by "New Old Stock".
i agree that there is a difference between classic and vintage (at least to me). i am not familiar with vintage period other than that they are very old, and at least collectible.
classic would (in my books) refer to timeless designs or first among a new technology/design, and already discontinued and relatively rare.
example, fat chance yo eddy, fat chance ti, p-series from ritchey, early bontragers, pre-trek kleins, pre-litespeed merlins, first manitous, early yetis, early konas, etc. most definately all are pre-1995.
anyway, that is my interpretation. i love classic rides (as defined above) and am looking for a place where like minded people hang out.
Classic: Campy N. Record or S. Record components.
Simplex derailleurs, Mafac brakes. Galli components,
Zeus components. Pre index, all friction shifting, Rear
spread to no more than 126mm.
Vintage, 20 years old or more (for an example).
And yes, I think you can have one without the other
(30 y/o Frame with sti, or ergo shifting, 10 speed etc,
or 2003 Richard Sachs signature frame with all NOS
campy S. Record components).
well, now thats clear as mud.
05-24-03, 07:47 PM
This is a subjective distinction, not to be dictated by collectors. Why would my '84 Rockhopper be less of a classic than my Bob Jackson or Flying Scot? Is it about age, exclusivity, price?
I prefer criteria like functionality of design, to mere rarity value. Pound for pound my Rockhopper is the best value, most versatile bike I ever bought. Does that make it a classic? Who cares? It's not for sale and it's scruffy state betrays the hard and varied tasks it's performed- racing, training, touring, commuting.......
Back in the day, I could never afford a Ritchey- but I can tell a classic when I see one:)
all my bikes are classic, all six are early bmx, one built by me to rid the road, to me a classic what you like. and you can tell, keep cruzing ride a one speed
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