Recumbent - (Actionbent) recumbents - some questions

Folks,

I'm looking at getting an inexpensive recumbent and specifically an
Actionbent because these are the only new recumbents I know so far
that are reasonably priced.

I reckon that for such a price the bike will be like an ordinary
Walmart bike so to speak, only a recumbent one. I do not expect light
weigth or anything high tech such as a Challenge, for instace. If
it's reasonably weel-built, it's OK. This would be my first recumbent
and I could not like it after. And moreover, it's kind of difficult -
if not impossible - to convince the wife to spend more than that on a
bike.

I'd like to have some input from experienced recumbent riders, and
possibily from Actionbent riders.

1) What is the difference between having two 20" wheels vs. one 26"
at the back and a 20" at the front ?

I have the impression that with two 20" wheels one would have to rpm
more on the crancks to get going since the wheel diameter is
smaller. is this the case ?

2) Rain. I will be using the recumbent for commuting to work.
It'll stay outside all the day. Although I won't ride when it's
pouring, what about light rain ? Does one gets wetter on a
recumbent than on an ordinary bike because of the position ?

Also, having the bike sitting outside under possible heavy rain -
will that soak the seat ?

3) 20" wheels - are they easily found ? What about tubes for these ?

4) Chain routing idlers. I've read they can be noisy. Are
alternatives relatively easy to find ?

5) USS versions - a mirror for me is important. I have one on my
regular bike as I always like to see what traffic comes from
behind without moving the head. A Cateye bar-end is simply nice.
With a USS recumbent, does one have to wear special mirror gizmo
attached to a helmet or to glasses, or is there another way ?

6) Cables. Do we need then to get special length cables for rear
brakes and rear derailleurs ?

7) Chain(s). When replacing the chain, I guess two chains are put
together. I'm used to remove the chain for cleaning. For this I
use a PowerLink or somesuch name that makes it easy to remove.
Is it possible to use these with these extra long chains ?

I tend to prefer one with the rear suspension. The Roadster has
such, is lexx expensive than others, and already has the new FRP seat.
But it has two 20" wheels. The RaodRunner is more expensive, has no
suspension, but has a 26" wheel at the back and a disc brake at the
front. I still have to look after the JetStream and Rail Metro
models.

Hey, thanks a lot in advance for any comments/suggestions/ideas.

Cheers.

I'm not much of a recumbent expert, but I'll put in some answers below.




1) What is the difference between having two 20" wheels vs. one 26"
at the back and a 20" at the front ?
I have the impression that with two 20" wheels one would have to rpm
more on the crancks to get going since the wheel diameter is
smaller. is this the case ?

Larger diameter wheel retains the inertia better than smaller diameter wheel when you stop pedaling. It feels that it take less effort to keep the larger diameter wheel turning at high speed, but larger diameter wheels are harder to accelerate.

2) Rain. I will be using the recumbent for commuting to work.
It'll stay outside all the day. Although I won't ride when it's
pouring, what about light rain ? Does one gets wetter on a
recumbent than on an ordinary bike because of the position ?

Also, having the bike sitting outside under possible heavy rain -
will that soak the seat ?

With a mesh seat, you might be able to retain less water if the bike sits in rain for long period of time.

3) 20" wheels - are they easily found ? What about tubes for these ?

Some recumbetns take regular BMX size wheels, those are easily found for replacement tubes and tires, the narrower 20" wheels/tires/tubes are harder to find stock in bikeshops, but not hard for bikeshop people to order them for you.

4) Chain routing idlers. I've read they can be noisy. Are
alternatives relatively easy to find ?


Wind noise are much louder than chain idlers, it shouldn't be a concern

5) USS versions - a mirror for me is important. I have one on my
regular bike as I always like to see what traffic comes from
behind without moving the head. A Cateye bar-end is simply nice.
With a USS recumbent, does one have to wear special mirror gizmo
attached to a helmet or to glasses, or is there another way ?

Go with a helmet or glasses mount if you must have a mirror, with USS recumbent you might as well turn your head around if you mount a mirrow at the handlebar.

6) Cables. Do we need then to get special length cables for rear
brakes and rear derailleurs ?

Regular length cable could be a bit short for rear derailleur cable, but that depends on how long of a bike you choose to have.

7) Chain(s). When replacing the chain, I guess two chains are put
together. I'm used to remove the chain for cleaning. For this I
use a PowerLink or somesuch name that makes it easy to remove.
Is it possible to use these with these extra long chains ?

Yes, you can use a Sachs/SRAM powerlink on multiple chains. The longer chain require less maintenace also.

I tend to prefer one with the rear suspension. The Roadster has
such, is lexx expensive than others, and already has the new FRP seat.
But it has two 20" wheels. The RaodRunner is more expensive, has no
suspension, but has a 26" wheel at the back and a disc brake at the
front. I still have to look after the JetStream and Rail Metro
models.

I tend to feel dual suspension on a recumbent is an overkill, if you want plush ride, use a wider rear tire with less psi in the tube. Recumbents are heavier in compare to diamond frame bikes already, add rear suspension is just weighing it down even more. You're not riding the recumbent off-road when you need constant contact to the ground that's bumpy. Recumbent don't climb hills as well as diamond frame bike, add rear suspension just make it even less efficient.
Try looking for a used Vision R40 USS recumbent, should be around $400 to 600 easy. My GF and I both tried many different recumbetns before settling on them. 20" vs 26" rear wheel, USS vs OSS, LWB vs SWB, we tried them all. She's 5'0" and prefer OSS.



Good luck



Hey, thanks a lot in advance for any comments/suggestions/ideas.

Cheers.

I'm not much of a recumbent expert, but I'll put in some answers below.

WOW! Great response.


I did want to comment on this:

"I reckon that for such a price the bike will be like an ordinary
Walmart bike so to speak, only a recumbent one."

The AB bikes are a better quality product than a Target/Wal Mart cycle. The components, while not top end, are better than what you get on a cheap bike.

If you want to talk to ActionBent riders visit here: http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/actionbent/

Great questions Carcassonne. First of all, indeed sign up for the Actionbent Yahoo group and ask about the bike you are considerig from actual owners. People there are very active and will be happy to answer your questions. As to some answers:
1. Wheel size is a preference thing. with 20" wheels, you loose some of the top end of conventional gearing. It is nothing to write home about or complain about. If you want the particulars, please check out Sheldon Brown's web page: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears/ and set the calculator to "gear inches". If you anticipate some serious hills, 20" wheels are easier to gear down than 26" wheels. 26" wheels gives you more clearance to your jockey wheel cage on the rear derailleur... and you get more air in the rires for cush. 20" wheels are stiffer (read: less flexy on side loads).

2. Wet is wet. With a seat like a spoon, it will puddle water in the bottom unless you provide drain holes. A normal rain suit should keep you dry and maybe some shoe covers. The stock pad on the seat will hold some water... optional open cell seats will hold a lot of water. There are some other options that we can get into if you decide on a particular model. There is something called an Air-Mesh seatcover that I know little about. People normally cover their seat with like an oversized showercap when they leave it in the rain.

3. There are 2 20" wheel sizes... LBS deal mostly with what is know as a 451 size... many recumbents come with 406 size wheels. You rarely find this size tire in a local shop unless they are recumbent dealers. Since the choice of tires is HUGE in the industry, mail-order is probably the most popular way to go for getting exactly what you want. The bike will likely come with Primo Comet Kevlars. There are good low-price-point tires that are relatively fast (light weight) and reasonably puncture resistant. Ifr you need flat-proof reliability, your search begins. There are plenty of 406 size tires on the market.

4. Actionbents idlers are not known for their robstness and quality. If you choose a bike with a relatively straight chainline, the idler will do little work. The Teflon chain tubes work well on the Actionbent models but for most, you have to figure out the best way to route the tubes. The idlers on Actionbents are not noisy. One elite upgrade is the Terracycle idler... People will swear they go 50% faster (J/K!).

5. Depending on whether you get bar-end shifters or twist shifters, bar-end mirrors work fine and a large selection. If the bar-ends are already used, most people will put bull-horns on their handlebars to get more places to mount things. There are also several mirrors that mount directly to the handlebar tube.

6. You don't need to worry about cables for quite a while. The setup from Actionbent is of good quality. My trike has braze-ons for keeping the tubing short and all the cables are standard replacement stuff.

7. The powerlink is a good idea. I use the SRAM 2 piece masterlink for 9 speed chains. The chain is usually sufficient for the shorter rider (the chain will probably be a KMC Z9000 which is SRAM compatable). If you need the boom setup for the taller rider, tell Actionbent to send an additional length of chain with the bike (highlite this and mention it in every correspondance :) ). You can buy long chains from the Hostle Shoppe (11' and 14') when the time comes. The KMC chain is pretty tough, so this too will be a while coming.

Suspension? ...all depends on your creature comfort needs. I think I'd really like a fully suspended 'bent specially if I like to keep the tires inflated to max pressure. If you a purist, then clean simplicity is no suspension and minimal accoutriments. Here I would have to say that seeking out a few recument shops is well adviced. Even if you need to drive a few hours to get there, you won't know what you're getting into unless you try it before you buy it. If you like some other models, you will like the Actionbent as well. WHile you're at it, you can check out over seat and under seat steering. There are a lot more options with 'bents than you have with DF bikes... and then there is that long wheel base option (if you have the space for it). This too is an interesting breed many will swear by for commuting and touring. Some bodies just arn't meant to work while laying down, if you know what I mean.

I will also second the keeping an eye out on used 'bents. Are you also a BROL member? This is key to getting information on 'bents in general: http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/index.php
You can find a lot of very good used 'bents on this site and some very good advice on almost anything.

Actionbent bikes are designed by different designers and all built by TW/Bents. Some are quirky and others are diamonds in the rough. You want to talk to users and ask them what they "don't" like about their choice. TW/Bents is an excellent frame builder and the components are well choosen matching the mid-level bike market (certainly not Wal-Mart). The only thing you give up is the middle man lining his pockets with up to 40% markups... That is why they are so affordable. Randy Shulman at Actionbent does try to satisfy every customer above and beyond many importers. A TW/Bent rep (the: Kevin) is also somewhat excessible if things go horribly wrong.

Sorry about the epic response, but those interested will read through it. BTW... I love my Actionbent Tadpole Trike. It is one of my few great investments in bike-o-bilia and it is a whole lot of fun!

I reckon that for such a price the bike will be like an ordinary
Walmart bike so to speak, only a recumbent one.

I've often said that I think Actionbent and other direct-from-the-importer are bad deals unless the buyer is mechanically adept, but it doesn't mean they're cheap like a WallyWorld bike. What you get for your money is a basic bent with 'OK' components, and you save money by not paying the middleman; which in this case would be a LBS. By not paying the LBS, you don't get assembly and you don't have them to handle adjustments, warranty issues, etc, which is the kind of support that first-time owners often need. For someone like me, who has always done most of his own maintenance anyway, and for whom building a bike up from little pieces is no big deal, one of these bikes would be a reasonable buy.



2) Rain. I will be using the recumbent for commuting to work.
It'll stay outside all the day. Although I won't ride when it's
pouring, what about light rain ? Does one gets wetter on a
recumbent than on an ordinary bike because of the position ?

Also, having the bike sitting outside under possible heavy rain -
will that soak the seat ?

It would be best to cover the seat if it's going to be parked in the rain. Very open foam, like air conditioning filter foam, can simply shake out. Other stuff will hold varying amounts of water, right up to the upholstery foam that RANS and Bacchetta use which can hold a ton of water for days and weeks after getting wet. Drilling holes in the seat pan doesn't help unless the holes are huge!

As far as you getting wet, I've found that
1. Fairings help! Your face will get wetter, but they'll protect the rest of you somewhat.
2. High bottom brackets get your feet up out of the wheel spray.
3. Water will pool on your chest or stomach, and if your rainsuit has a zipper, the water will find its way through and get you wet.
4. If you have OSS, water will run from your wrists to your elbows and pool there.
5. If you have a high bottom bracket with no fairing, expect water to run up your legs, too.
6. Of course, if commuting in the rain is expected, you should have fenders no matter what you're riding.

All told, I'd rather ride an upright in the rain.



4) Chain routing idlers. I've read they can be noisy. Are
alternatives relatively easy to find ?

Idler noise is exaggerated. A properly set up idler will not make much noise. An improperly set up idler or chain tube will make a lot of noise, and possibly affect shifting.



I tend to prefer one with the rear suspension.

Ugh! Why do you think you prefer suspension? Or is that just a holdover thought from uprights? Since bents are road bikes, suspension is only for control at speed, on very rough pavement. Remember, the bent rider is already suspended on a foam seat instead of perching on a fence rail.

Thanks everyone for the comments so far ! I have to read them carefully.

Cheers.

WOW!
If you want to talk to ActionBent riders visit here: http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/actionbent/

Is there a way to only browse the articles without going through all that registration (eg. like gmane browsing of mailing lists) ?

Cheers.

I wish you could, Carcassenne, but they do this to keep the spam under control. It is pretty painless to register for Yahoo and then it is a simple click to join the group. You can also turn off the option to have every message emailed to you. The Actionbent group is the only one I allow to email me every message.

BTW... as blazing pedals illudes to having to assemble the bike, I think Randy is offering up to $50- to have a bike shop set up your new 'bent. Good think is that the major components are already assembled. Normally you set up the chain, add cables, install pedals, seat and steering bar. Then simply adjust the derailleurs and the brakes. It took me 2 hours to assemble my trike and about 2 weeks to tweak everything into the right feel. If you have bicycle assembly experience, it is a no-brainer. If not, you should get some basic knowledge anyway. BTW... I'am pretty sure you're frame will come with a 3 year warrantee.

I'm not worried about assembling the bike. As I see it, it'll be a fun thing to do. I'm not foreign to fiddling with a bike, so I do not see any challenge (no (expensive) recumbent pun intended) with assembling the bike. I already took a look at the pdf instructions for the RoadRunner which I'll probably get since from comments I'll let go of the suspension.

I already do not have much of a good impression on suspension from this winter riding as I prefer the Cannondale BB with front fork locked to a fully suspended inexpensive (German-made) MTB bike equipped with studded tires for sliding and general control in the snow.

Cheers.

Everybody has pretty much answered your questions. I'm a little late to the party, but I do have a full suspended Road Runner with 1500+ miles on it last year. I have no complaints, other than it has made riding fun again and I want to be out on it all the time. Other commitments slow me down! My bike has been checked out by some of the bigger bike shops and pronounced as a good buy after everybody had to ride it! Granted, it is not a high dollar Euro bike, but well worth the time to assemble your "bike in a box" and save some $$!
Questions? Ask away. And I am a member of the AB group on Yahoo, too, if you want to go there.
I have enjoyed bent riding so well that I now have a second one. (Not an AB) :rolleyes: Man cannot have too many machines!!!

...............jim

The Roadster has a larger crank up front to accomodate the 20" rear tire.

Check out Calhoun Cycles for accessories. Look at their Evolution mirrors that mount on the handlebars. You should be able to find a place to mount one on your USS bar. I just put one on my OSS bar, and I like it better than the Myrrcycle mirror sticking out the end of the bar.
http://www.calhouncycle.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=9&idproduct=7

You can also order good 'bent tires from Calhoun.

Depending on what you want, I'd also check out the Rans Tailwind. I don't know where you are, but there might be a dealer near you. I test rode one, and it was easy to ride, and would be great for riding in town. It's list is $995, but Rans has discontinued it, meaning you might find some used demo models for much less. Spin Cyclz has some left, but that could also be buying 'bent unridden over the internet. I think Nanda has a demo Tailwind in stock, but you'd have to call him about prices. Bikes with seats like the Rans seat are very nice on rough roads. I have at least 3-4 inches of padding in the seat. Here's a pic of me test riding a Tailwind.
http://www.spincyclz.com/index.html