Advocacy & Safety - Denver Critical Mass

Has anyone participated in the Denver critical mass ride lately? I was thinking about doing it this month, but I was reading about riders getting tickets and generally harassed by the police. Is this still going on?

All the more reason to participate.

No, but I'd like to ride in one. I'd probably even make the ride down there in the Summer.

I ask again. What is the point of intentionally slowing and blocking traffic and violating the rules of the road in order to gain publicity for cyclists? It just pisses people off and reinforces notions that bikes don't belong on the streets.

Why don't the cyclists just ride in a long group, obeying traffic laws. That way, the cops can't harrass them and drivers will get the idea that cyclists are entitiled to ride on the streets also.

What is the Critical Mass??

What is the Critical Mass??
A group of anarchists who chose the bicycle as a means to displace there anger upon society :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_Mass

I'm with San Rensho on this one...

I think its a ride they did in Boulder??? Where all the angry bikers got together and rode in an effort to create recognition for roadbiker's rights to the road. But if I remember correctly, it was precieved pretty negatively....bad press....that sort of thing. Kind of a black eye for our sport, again IF I remember correctly.

Yeah not interested in doing that. The way to make a point and get it across is in a positive manner.

My boyfriends father use to be a State Senator and he said that he received the most death threats when it came to giving cyclists more rights on the roads.

I respect what they are trying to achieve but it can be done in a good way. :)

I ask again. What is the point of intentionally slowing and blocking traffic and violating the rules of the road in order to gain publicity for cyclists? It just pisses people off and reinforces notions that bikes don't belong on the streets.

Why don't the cyclists just ride in a long group, obeying traffic laws. That way, the cops can't harrass them and drivers will get the idea that cyclists are entitiled to ride on the streets also.

yep. seems counterproductive to me.

I think the Denver CM is pretty civil compared to some places. I haven't ridden one, personally, but I'm thinking about it.

I don't participate, but here's the rationale.

When traffic congestion occurs, it's not because motorists decided to get together at 5:30 p.m. and have a parade. It's because everybody gets out of work at 5 p.m., traffic happens, and the result is congested traffic.

Critical Mass is an illustration of a bicycle version of this. It (supposedly) is not "organized" so it's not a parade -- several cyclists all happen to show up on the same street at about the same time, and the result is congested bicycle traffic.

When motorists do it, nobody cares. When cyclists do it, they get harassed, ticketed, and get their bikes impounded.

RFM

The one critical mass I witnessed (here in Denver), the folks riding didn't just ride through an intersection causing congestion. They circled and circled in the intersection, bringing traffic to a stand still. Completely counter-productive to the cause. Like most well-intended grass-roots movements, it looses its original desire well along the way....

I think its a ride they did in Boulder???

The Boulder Thursday Ride (http://www.cruiserbikeride.org/) is not a Critical Mass. Participants are strongly encouraged to obey traffic rules and ride courteously.

RFM

My boyfriends father use to be a State Senator and he said that he received the most death threats when it came to giving cyclists more rights on the roads.


:eek:

Thats nuts!

I don't participate, but here's the rationale.

When traffic congestion occurs, it's not because motorists decided to get together at 5:30 p.m. and have a parade. It's because everybody gets out of work at 5 p.m., traffic happens, and the result is congested traffic.

Critical Mass is an illustration of a bicycle version of this. It (supposedly) is not "organized" so it's not a parade -- several cyclists all happen to show up on the same street at about the same time, and the result is congested bicycle traffic.

When motorists do it, nobody cares. When cyclists do it, they get harassed, ticketed, and get their bikes impounded.

RFM

the fact that you had to explain it to me and others means the "message" isn't being that effectively communicated... I guess.

the fact that you had to explain it to me and others means the "message" isn't being that effectively communicated.

Well... yeah. I get it, but it had to be explained to me also.

I suspect most participants don't really get it either. They're just anarchists having fun.

RFM

Thats nuts!
No, that's the typical (american) "Ohmygawd, something slower than I am, GET OUT OF MY WAY. You should be on the sidewalk!" Attitude.

I'd rather ride in traffic then ride a CM.

Wow, Critical Masses are a lot different here.

It's usually about 12 people riding choppers or other bikes just cruising around.

I ask again. What is the point of intentionally slowing and blocking traffic and violating the rules of the road in order to gain publicity for cyclists? It just pisses people off and reinforces notions that bikes don't belong on the streets.

Why don't the cyclists just ride in a long group, obeying traffic laws. That way, the cops can't harrass them and drivers will get the idea that cyclists are entitiled to ride on the streets also.+1

And then they complain that they're being "harassed" when they get ticketed for violating the law.

+1

And then they complain that they're being "harassed" when they get ticketed for violating the law.

No, they complain that they're being harassed when they get struck with and knocked down by motorized police vehicles, and then arrested, when they're NOT violating the law.

No, they complain that they're being harassed when they get struck with and knocked down by motorized police vehicles, and then arrested, when they're NOT violating the law.If that were true, there are remedies. Have they exercised their remedies?

If that were true, there are remedies. Have they exercised their remedies?

Yep, they keep on winning in court...

Yep, they keep on winning in court...Winning what? Because if they exercised their remedies, they wouldn't have to keep going to court...

I'd seen the CM in denver several times, and participated once. That was a while ago, so I don't know if things have changed. It was a slow, short ride with not much traffic, but a police escort (on motorcycle) which was pretty ridiculous. I have used my bicycle to go to the Denver Library for about two years now, and just happened to be there at the same time as CM that evening so figured why not - get to see some bikes, see some people, I figured it might even be fun. But I can safely say that you're not missing anything.

Winning what? Because if they exercised their remedies, they wouldn't have to keep going to court...

Explain: when a police force regularly ignores the court system, what can ordinary people do about it?

Explain: when a police force regularly ignores the court system, what can ordinary people do about it?Are you saying that the police department has had a court order issued against it to stop certain practices, and it is ignoring that court order?

I find that hard to believe.

Or maybe you're saying that innocent cyclists have had their rights violated, and they've won huge judgments against the city, but no matter how much money the city shells out to innocent cyclists, the police department continues to violate their rights?

I find that hard to believe as well.

Which brings me back to my original question...



If that were true, there are remedies. Have they exercised their remedies?

The police routinely violate the rights of cyclists participating in Critical Mass, in order to discourage participation in the ride, in cities all over the US. If you were the paranoid sort, you would think that there was a concerted coordination of this effort at the federal level.

If you were the paranoid sort, you would think that there was a concerted coordination of this effort at the federal level.

You mean sorta like Critical Mass?

You mean sorta like Critical Mass?
The unfunded grassroots bicycling celebration? No, I mean the government-sanctioned, well-funded, organized, protofascist police state variety.

What a great idea, riding in a circle to cause more traffic.

Without you Canada would be without traffic problem on the last friday of the month.

Thanks guy,

Are you saying that the police department has had a court order issued against it to stop certain practices, and it is ignoring that court order?

I find that hard to believe.

Or maybe you're saying that innocent cyclists have had their rights violated, and they've won huge judgments against the city, but no matter how much money the city shells out to innocent cyclists, the police department continues to violate their rights?

I find that hard to believe as well.

Which brings me back to my original question...
Instead of continuing to be vague, you could actually explain what aforementioned remedies are. Methinks I will be under impressed when I find out though...

As to the topic at hand: It's very simple. CM promotes ill-will towards cyclists. Even if the intellectual justification is sound, reality will still rear its ugly head. No, I have no statistics except for the numerous people I've talked to who say they support the idea of cycling, but it really pisses them off when bikers get a very self-righteous attitude and disobey traffic rules and such.

If you want to be part of the traffic, obey traffic laws. If you don't like traffic laws, you're free to walk your bike on the sidewalk (just don't j-walk).

It's very simple. CM promotes ill-will towards cyclists.

Riding VC will solve that though right? It sure seems that all of the threads on here about cyclists getting buzzed and harassed are from people who ride according to the law. Why are they still getting treated like dirt?

The police routinely violate the rights of cyclists participating in Critical Mass, in order to discourage participation in the ride, in cities all over the US. If you were the paranoid sort, you would think that there was a concerted coordination of this effort at the federal level.

From the videos I've seen, CM, at least in New York, seems to be a deliberate provocation consisting of a "sit down strike" of sorts designed to block intersections and bring traffic to a complete halt. Of course that type of behavior will bring police action, but its not a "fascist state conspiracy" against cyclists. The impression CM gives is that the participants are college students who just learned about anarchy in poli-sci class, think its cool and want to try it out.

As I stated before, I agree with the concept of critical mass, that large groups of cyclists get together to demonstrate that they have a right to the road, I just disagree with their tactics. Blatantly, intentionally and flagrantly violating the law will not garner any support from non cyclists and is an invitation to a justifiable (in many people's minds) police crackdown on "anarchist bicycle hoodlums".

Riding in a large group and obeying traffic laws and trying to flow with traffic will get much better results.

how come cars can clog up roads, block traffic at intersections and run red lights en masse whenever, with disregard by other drivers, but bikes are not allowed to do the same? one of the principles (if there is one) of critical mass is that bikes ARE traffic. get a few thousand, probably over a hundred thousand bikes around the globe clogging up the streets once a month.

foment ill will from cagers? that's already a lost cause - collectively, drivers HATE bicyclists. critical mass rides have nothing to do with cagers hating cyclists.

whats the read on critical mass rides in other, non North american countries? I wonder what critical mass in bogota is like? or berlin?

personally, i like san renshos idea and think the effect of critical mass rides simply going around a few blocks in a downtown area, like a big drill team, would sooo have a better effect. kind of like those shriners in their little cars in the parades....

When traffic congestion occurs, it's not because motorists decided to get together at 5:30 p.m. and have a parade. It's because everybody gets out of work at 5 p.m., traffic happens, and the result is congested traffic.

Critical Mass is an illustration of a bicycle version of this. It (supposedly) is not "organized" so it's not a parade -- several cyclists all happen to show up on the same street at about the same time, and the result is congested bicycle traffic.

When motorists do it, nobody cares. When cyclists do it, they get harassed, ticketed, and get their bikes impounded.


Excellent description, richardmasoner. I'm surprised by how many cyclists on bikeforums are deathly opposed to critical mass. I've gone on several critical mass rides in Chicago. Chicago is a pretty unique cycling town where the mayor supports critical mass and often times the police help cork intersections and calm down irate motorists (I have mixed feelings about the cops helping out, but at least they are not as hostile as it sounds in other cities).

Here http://www.chicagocriticalmass.org/adamboston.html is an excellent description of CM from former Chicago masser Adam Kessel in response to Boston CM critics (My favorite quote from the article: "I ride because I find the mass creates a temporary autonomous zone (to borrow a slogan); a place where bicycles do have the right of way--and not just on paper; an ephermal non-imaginary safe, quiet, clean, and fun use of the public good, the streets which we all pay for and the air which we all breath."

How many people opposed to CM have ever gone on a CM ride?

-Pete

Instead of continuing to be vague, you could actually explain what aforementioned remedies are. Methinks I will be under impressed when I find out though...

As to the topic at hand: It's very simple. CM promotes ill-will towards cyclists. Even if the intellectual justification is sound, reality will still rear its ugly head. No, I have no statistics except for the numerous people I've talked to who say they support the idea of cycling, but it really pisses them off when bikers get a very self-righteous attitude and disobey traffic rules and such.

If you want to be part of the traffic, obey traffic laws. If you don't like traffic laws, you're free to walk your bike on the sidewalk (just don't j-walk).I was hoping to tease out the actual facts of what happened, thus, I wasn't spoon-feeding the CMer with the "correct response."

If a law enforcement officer violates your constitutional rights, you can file a civil rights action against the agency. For example, if you are ticketed for something that is legal, let's say ticketed for riding in the lane when the law says you have a right to be in the lane, or if you're arrested for doing something that is legal, you have a good argument to be made that your civil rights have been violated. Penalties for civil rights violations can be quite steep.

The fact that this isn't being done leads me to believe that the claims of "harassment" are rather overstated; there's no shortage of civil rights attorneys who would be perfectly willing to tackle police violations of civil rights.

From what I've read on other threads, CM claims of legal riding are grossly exaggerated at best. Typical examples of actual, as opposed to imagined harassment, include ticketing for offenses that haven't been committed. On the other hand, police also ticket for offenses that they don't normally ticket for-- riding at night without lights, etc. That may be "harassment" too, but the behavior isn't legal. If a CM rider CHOOSES to break the law, the rider should be graceful enough to accept the consequences, instead of whining about being "harassed." A typical example of various shades of CM Harassment:


I was at last night's CM. It is a sad joke what our tax dollars are being used for. Police from all over New York City are brought into Manhattan to harass and intimidate and generally disrupt this ride. At no other time do cyclists need to worry about being ticketed for riding without a light or a helmet or a bell. In fact, while being ticketed last night, restaurant delivery guys were riding by without any of the above and some were riding against traffic.


I was written up for not using the bike lane - on an avenue in which there is no bike lane! Bogus tickets like this are quite common at NYC CM. And no, the ticket does not particularly upset me as I know it will be dismissed.

I’m aware of exactly ONE civil rights action filed, in Boston. At trial, the testimony from the cyclist was that he wasn’t violating any laws and was arrested unlawfully; the testimony from the police officers was that the arrest happened in the midst of a CM ride in which cyclists were riding in both lanes—i.e., breaking the law—of a road on which bicycles are prohibited. Not surprisingly, the jury sided with law enforcement.

The impression CM gives is that the participants are college students who just learned about anarchy in poli-sci class, think its cool and want to try it out.Er, shouldn't that be "trust-fund college students"? :D

how come cars can clog up roads, block traffic at intersections and run red lights en masse whenever, with disregard by other drivers, but bikes are not allowed to do the same?Any car running a red light is subject to the same penalty. In fact, it's illegal in many states to go through a green light if you can't clear the intersection before the light changes to red.

Your argument neglects a critical point here, as well. That is, the cars "clogging up the roads" aren't doing it intentionally-- they're individuals, driving home as individuals. They're not on a group drive, intentionally designed to clog up roads at the busiest time of day, just as everybody is trying to get home for the weekend.

The CMers can't make the same claim. Well, since they're apparently willing to make any number of specious claims, I suppose they can make that false claim as well.


one of the principles (if there is one) of critical mass is that bikes ARE traffic.Yawn.


foment ill will from cagers? that's already a lost cause - collectively, drivers HATE bicyclists. critical mass rides have nothing to do with cagers hating cyclists.I would argue the opposite. Critical mass rides have a LOT to do with cagers hating cyclists.

I would suggest that if CMers obeyed the law, there would be NO reason for motorists trapped in traffic to resent them. But when they intentionally violate traffic laws, intentionally clog intersections, intentionally harass drivers, yes, drivers will begin to hate them back.

How many people opposed to CM have ever gone on a CM ride?

-PeteHow many people opposed to **** have ever tried it?

How many people opposed to **** have ever tried it?

Well said.

Well said.

Except that CM is not ****!

Except that CM is not ****!True. But the point is you don't always have to try something to know what your opinion of it is.

I would argue the opposite. Critical mass rides have a LOT to do with cagers hating cyclists.


Interesting theory, we don't have a critical mass ride in my city, why do so many drivers still hate cyclists? Is it possible that they really just don't like cyclists being out on the road, no matter how "legal" somebody rides, they think you just shouldn't be there?

True. But the point is you don't always have to try something to know what your opinion of it is.

And my point is that not all analogies are analogous. There are some things that you do have to experience to credibly comment on. There are many misconceptions about CM. That's all I'll say though because I haven't experienced CM myself either.

Interesting theory, we don't have a critical mass ride in my city, why do so many drivers still hate cyclists? Is it possible that they really just don't like cyclists being out on the road, no matter how "legal" somebody rides, they think you just shouldn't be there?I didn't say it has *everything* to do with it. I do maintain, however, that we are responsible for *some* of the antagonism out there. Every time we ride illegally, every time we harass motorists for being motorists, every time we behave arrogantly or rudely, we're creating ONE MORE negative encounter.

And my point is that not all analogies are analogous. There are some things that you do have to experience to credibly comment on. That's why I phrased my response the way I did.

I didn't say it has *everything* to do with it. I do maintain, however, that we are responsible for *some* of the antagonism out there. Every time we ride illegally, every time we harass motorists for being motorists, every time we behave arrogantly or rudely, we're creating ONE MORE negative encounter.

I understand your point and I agree that we are responsible for *some* of the antagonism. I wish I could really believe that if we all rode according to the law, and were respectful to drivers that we would get the same back, but I don't see it happening like that. The best I could hope for is that more people ride, even for recreation, and that they may have a little more respect (or sympathy on some roads) for that person pedaling down the side of the rode. It's a longshot I know...

...
My boyfriends father use to be a State Senator and he said that he received the most death threats when it came to giving cyclists more rights on the roads.
Wow! Sounds like the strong arm of hegemony. Not a whole lot more appealing than CM.

I think that if you want to increase ridership,you have to appeal to a broader, more voting base than CM. I figure that for every 100 adult recreation riders you add, you might get 2-8 commuters and about the same to write a letter.