Living Car Free - If you had to use an automobile..

If you had to use a motorized vehicle, which one would you drive?

Personally, I like the Smart, but considering the costs of importing it to the states, it's not as desirable as it is at UK prices, and it's not expecting in the USA for awhile anyway (http://www.smartusa.com/).

Other than that, i'd probably look at something like a ZAP, such as this cute/incredibly ugly/lime green thing: http://www.zapworld.com/ZAPWorld.aspx?id=308

If you had to use a motorized vehicle, which one would you drive?


An ebike, and I do. At present it is the only electric vehicle that competes with gasoline vehicles in $/mile. As much as I HATE oil based transportation and desire for an alternative the cost is simply prohibitive--at least given my income--to consider an electric car conversion, hybrid, even a Xebra.



Personally, I like the Smart, but considering the costs of importing it to the states, it's not as desirable as it is at UK prices, and it's not expecting in the USA for awhile anyway (http://www.smartusa.com/).

Other than that, i'd probably look at something like a ZAP, such as this cute/incredibly ugly/lime green thing: http://www.zapworld.com/ZAPWorld.aspx?id=308

From what one owner reports on the "electric-powered" forum the Xebra gets about 220-250 watt-hours/mile which makes it one of the most efficient consumer electric cars to date, but as I have already noted my ebike is far, far more efficient. Furthermore, the SLA batteries in the Xebra cost hundreds of dollars to replace while the six SLA batteries in my ebike cost about $18 a piece. If that's not convincing enough my range on the bike is limited only by how much human power I choose to input to the vehicle. In practice my bike probably has in excess of a hundred mile range with reasonable pedaling. Compared to the Xebra's 25-40 mile range (if you're willing to run the SLA battery completely flat which is not advisable).

A train :) (subway or streetcar that is). Excellent capabilities in bad weather, and capable of speeds up to 60 km/h or more in an urban setting.

A train :) (subway or streetcar that is).
Yeah! Give me a well planned urban rail system with roll on / roll off bike accessibility.

I'm talking more about what the average person would consider an automobile (Car, truck, motorcycle)

And I wasn't talking about the electric ZAP, I was talking about the eco-flex model

Which auto? Hummm, strange thread for this forum, but then I would probably lean towards the 2008 ULSD powered Jetta TDI. I'm conflicted because diesels are dirty, but get great mileage.

Really now
Why would some one come here and make people drive?

trol troll your boat.

I would probably go for a scooter - or maybe a tuk-tuk / indian style autorickshaw. I've seen them with 4 passengers (or more) and they can haul goods fairly well-not the base scooter, just the asian version.

In my neck of the woods, there are no flex cars, no public transportation whatsoever and our one taxicab company employs drivers that, frankly, frighten me. So, for us to go totally car free would be impossible due to the number of times we need to go further than a bike would be practical. So, we are looking to trade my Jetta in for a Prius. Is it the perfect solution? No but it is about as close as we can get if we wish to stay where we are (which we do).

Good morning ellenDSD,

What is your situation exactly? Or rather what are your transportational requirements? I live in as rural a setting imaginable. We have zero public transportation save for a welfare van that the city runs for the injured and the elderly. The nearest greyhound bus station is thirty-five miles from the city and the Amtrack runs to only two other cities (Meridian, MS and New Orleans, LA). Tough situation, but I make do. I'm more than willing to share my solutions.

Bus. Or at least carpool in a van.

The nearest greyhound bus station is thirty-five miles from the city and the Amtrack runs to only two other cities (Meridian, MS and New Orleans, LA).
The key to riding Greyhound: minimum luggage, more stoic patience than you believe possible, and a good sense of humor.

The key to riding Amtrak: keep calling for the current train derailment and delay status and do not under any circumstances rely on the published schedules.

Sorry for interrupting the auto discussion. To return to the OP's question, I guess I'd drive a generic subcompact if I had to.

If you had to use a motorized vehicle, which one would you drive?

I'd have Jesse James cross me a Humvee with an early '70s Cadillac convertible. ;)

http://www.aquada.co.uk/humdinga.php

Someone should show the humdinga to the GM execs; would be right up their alley.

Why would some one come here and make people drive?
Yes, asking people what car they'd have if they had one is making people drive. I can't imagine how overwhelmingly forceful my hypothetical question was over the minds of those who saw it. I apologize for my superliminal messages.

If I had to drive (and if I actually got a license), a VW would be my choice.

My father used to have a classic white VW and it was the cutest car. Well it was a cute car until 2 teenagers stole it and damaged it by flipping it while driving down a country road. :(
There's something to be said for the old VW, they were built tough. The 2 joy-riders hardly got a stratch in the accident.

There's something to be said for the old VW, they were built tough. The 2 joy-riders hardly got a stratch in the accident. Funny you should say that. My mom was actually in a fairly major incident in a VW way back when. Had to go through surgery and such, which wasn't helped by the fact that somehow her X-rays and her sister's got mixed up. She won't even think about getting in a modern beetle now.

It's a rat circus out there.
http://www.lastinterceptor.com/features/0405phr_falcon_01_z.jpg

Well, if I HAD to use a vehicle it would depend on the NEED.
If I had to pick up a 1000lbs of mulsh I'd chose a truck. If I had to drive my family cross country (for whatever reason) i'd get the smallest most economical vehicle that would haul all of us plus our junk.
If I were running from the cops it'd be fast and inconspicuous. ;)

I would use a car WITH a bike on top, just to throw the anti-car hippies into amazing conniption fits.

How 'bout this? Better yet, there was a water bed inside.

Picture taken on a day of bicycle races held at the Hockenheim Germany Formula 1 Race Track.

Good morning ellenDSD,

What is your situation exactly? Or rather what are your transportational requirements? I live in as rural a setting imaginable. We have zero public transportation save for a welfare van that the city runs for the injured and the elderly. The nearest greyhound bus station is thirty-five miles from the city and the Amtrack runs to only two other cities (Meridian, MS and New Orleans, LA). Tough situation, but I make do. I'm more than willing to share my solutions.

Good morning right back to you!

My requirements include a minimum of two trips per month up the I-77 to either attend meetings or pick up my step-daughter. Bi-weekly there is a run to the neighboring town to do the grocery shopping (my family eats organic and while we have a local grocery that has organic staples like milk, etc. that I can bike to it is more economic for our food bill and my time to just jot up the road for the BIG run).

Good morning right back to you!

My requirements include a minimum of two trips per month up the I-77 to either attend meetings or pick up my step-daughter. Bi-weekly there is a run to the neighboring town to do the grocery shopping (my family eats organic and while we have a local grocery that has organic staples like milk, etc. that I can bike to it is more economic for our food bill and my time to just jot up the road for the BIG run).

Obviously, we both appreciate the need to limit the amount of fossil fuel used in our daily lives--I am striving to live a very car-lite livestyle in an anti-bicycle culture and you wrote that you were concerned enough to consider investing in a hybrid. I realize that I'm not going to engage you to the point that I convince you to attempt to go carless or even car-lite. What I would suggest is that you consider that every trip and every mile that one can substitute for driving the auto contributes to your overall efficiency. While I use my 4cyl gasoline econobox when it is necessary most of my errands are run on the bikes. In effect, if you were to take my total miles traveled (bicycle and car) and divide by the gallons of gas over the year my little Nissan gets something like 150+ mpg--compare that to a Prius, he he.

This doesn't happen overnight and requires careful planning, consolidating, and creativity on your part. As a family of five in a location without public transportation, I can say it is possible to reduce your fuel usage drastically if you take it one step a time. Anyway, I hope this offers some encouragement to you in your situation.

Obviously, we both appreciate the need to limit the amount of fossil fuel used in our daily lives--I am striving to live a very car-lite livestyle in an anti-bicycle culture and you wrote that you were concerned enough to consider investing in a hybrid. I realize that I'm not going to engage you to the point that I convince you to attempt to go carless or even car-lite.

Uh oh! I think I've given the wrong impression... I/my family are car lite. And I do my very best to combine my car trips. For example, if I know I have a meeting to go to in the next town, that is when I choose to go to the organic grocery store. That way, I'm not going out of town twice if that makes sense. Otherwise, unless someone is sick or there is a compelling reason to drive, we bike.

So for those times when we must drive, we want to make the least impact possible thus the Prius. Considered an econobox box too (I love the Yaris liftbacks!) but with two kids and a dog, we need the larger size.

Uh oh! I think I've given the wrong impression... I/my family are car lite. And I do my very best to combine my car trips. For example, if I know I have a meeting to go to in the next town, that is when I choose to go to the organic grocery store. That way, I'm not going out of town twice if that makes sense. Otherwise, unless someone is sick or there is a compelling reason to drive, we bike.

So for those times when we must drive, we want to make the least impact possible thus the Prius. Considered an econobox box too (I love the Yaris liftbacks!) but with two kids and a dog, we need the larger size.

Preaching to the choir, huh? I wish that once just once I would get such a response from a friend or neighber when I try explain why I bike.

So for those times when we must drive, we want to make the least impact possible thus the Prius. Considered an econobox box too (I love the Yaris liftbacks!) but with two kids and a dog, we need the larger size.
Some of those econobox models are not so great environmentally. In 2004, I bought a Toyota Corolla, not realizing it has a very poor emissions rating. And I can see why... it stinks when you start it up. A terrible sulphur smell. Fortunately, the Prius is rated much higher than the Yaris.

http://epa.gov/greenvehicles/E-TOYOTA-Yaris-07.htm
http://epa.gov/greenvehicles/E-TOYOTA-Prius-07.htm

My Corolla is really miserable:
http://epa.gov/greenvehicles/E-TOYOTA-Corolla-04.htm

Some of those econobox models are not so great environmentally. In 2004, I bought a Toyota Corolla, not realizing it has a very poor emissions rating. And I can see why... it stinks when you start it up. A terrible sulphur smell.
That's your catalytic converter dying, nothing else between the intake and exhaust tip will produce the rotten egg stench. If it's the close coupled convertors, stuffed inside the exhaust manifold, then it's time to throw money at it before the converter material starts to fall apart and then gets sucked back through the exhaust valves at mid to high rpm's off throttle, because then the ceramic slivers shred your engine. But maybe it's the secondary converter, it's much less catastrophic when that one falls apart; it would only plug up the rest of your exhaust system. But you wouldn't want to leave the exhaust plugged up, you'd cook the manifold converters and they'd shred your engine anyways.
I apologize if it sounds like I'm gloating or anything. I've been down this road before! [John Astin]But I'm feeling much better now![/John Astin]

I am an insurance adjuster and carry 24' extension ladder, laptop & printer everywhere I go. I drive VW Diesel cars, currently a 1997 Passat which gets me up to 50 Mpg, 1000 miles per tank highway without the roofrack. It has plenty of torque to pull a 4x8 trailer full of whatever, at 35-40 Mpg. General mixed driving mostly in town I get 46.

BTW Hybrids are a joke.

Something like Truckasaurus, but with better mileage.

That's your catalytic converter dying, ......


I may not agree with you on this only because when a car is first started, it has to warm up the catalytic converters before they actually work ...

Also, a cold engine runs rich on start-up (which can explain the horrid exhaust fumes) .. in order to run smooth and warm up faster.... once the engine reaches operating temps, it leans out to the standard air fuel ratio that the manufacturer programmed it to ...

I would not run to the mechanic and ask them to change the catalytic converter ... specially on the close-coupled one on the manifold... those cost over $ 1000 for a just about any 4 cyl car ... The mechanic will **** you on this one....

Newer cars such as this one have dual oxygen sensors which detect a failure of the primary cat which is the one worth a damn anyway...

If you have a check engine light, then read the code and that will tell you if the primary or secondary cat has failed......

If you had to use a motorized vehicle, which one would you drive?

Another car thread eh? :rolleyes:

All cars stink upon startup and most new cars have an auto-enriching cycle (revs a little higher than idle and runs rich air/fuel mixture, may even limit the car shifting into a higher gear if automatic) upon first start for the sole purpose of warming up the catalytic converter faster so it actually starts catalyzing. Drive for half an hour and then smell the exhaust gas, should be very little to no smell.

In my neck of the woods, there are no flex cars, no public transportation whatsoever and our one taxicab company employs drivers that, frankly, frighten me. So, for us to go totally car free would be impossible due to the number of times we need to go further than a bike would be practical. So, we are looking to trade my Jetta in for a Prius. Is it the perfect solution? No but it is about as close as we can get if we wish to stay where we are (which we do).

Why are you trading in the Jetta if you don't mind my asking?

If environmental considerations are among the reasons you are car light then keeping the car you have is scads better than buying a new one. Reason is that the environmental cost of manufacture on the one you have has already been paid. A new car requires further consumption of precious resources in its manufacture and the emittance of tons of greenhouse gases.

Every year we manufacture millions of excess new cars that the auto companies "force" us to buy with the lure of discounts and cheap loans. We trade-in our slightly used ones which are then resold to people who usually can't afford new (but hope to someday). Those people dump their cars on the poor or unsuspecting family members.

My point is that even this lowest of the low used cars is still, usually, pretty good and reliable transportation. We just seem to "tire" of them to quickly. Like they are some sort of fashion statement.

Take a look at Cuba to see how long cars can last if it weren't for Detroit shoving new ones at us each year.

For a car-lite person, such as yourself, the environmental case for trading up to a new more fuel efficient model is even harder to make. If one only drives a few times a month then I'd say the Hummer I've got in my driveway now is better for the environment then the new Prius I might replace it with.

Side note on the Prius and hybrids in general:
Hybrids are city cars. If your driving mostly consists of running down the highway at 50MPH then you are no better off then if you had a Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic. Better to run one of these with their fuel sippng 4 cylinder engines. Hybrids have battery packs full of nasty chemicals that will have to be replaced, at great expense, long before the rest of the car wears out.

Why are you trading in the Jetta if you don't mind my asking?

Not at all :)

For the record, I agree with you about trading in. The Jetta is a perfectly fine car that will give us years of service and with all the bells and whistles, it will do it comfortably too. However, in addition to the Jetta, we are also thinking about trading in my husband's '94 Ford Thunderbird so we will be going down to one car. One car! That excites me! That Ford has been my husband's baby since he bought it new so getting him to trade it in is no small undertaking and a little incentive is necessary... The way it works out moneywise, if we ditch the Jetta and the t-bird, drive the Prius when we need it and use bikes the rest of the time, then we can afford to get hubby his dream motorcycle - a Yamaha something or other. Plus there is the message that goes with driving a Prius that I like. So, to uncomplicate my answer... I want to go down to one car and in order to do it, I have to work my husband so that everybody is happy. Make sense?

Now if we can't work it all out to get the kind of deal we want, etc., etc., etc. then we will continue to drive the Jetta for quite a bit longer.

Well I would think keeping the Jetta and just trading in the Thunderbird for the motorcycle might be the way to go. But it sounds like you are really jonesing for the Prius.

Personally I think the hybrids a a tad overrated. Just last night it was reported that the purported mpg for these cars were found to be too high and are going to be reduced.


Plus there is the message that goes with driving a Prius that I like.

But is the message reality?

Good luck!

For the record, I agree with you about trading in. The Jetta is a perfectly fine car that will give us years of service and with all the bells and whistles, it will do it comfortably too. However, in addition to the Jetta, we are also thinking about trading in my husband's '94 Ford Thunderbird so we will be going down to one car.
I've just been through this. My family has gone from multiple to one vehicle recently. If everyone in the family is thinking about cycling or walking for short trips, that one car lasts quite a bit longer. The Jetta might be perfectly fine for many more years. However, if the all family members are not into cycling and walking -- at least in the vicinity of your house -- then one car might not be enough. For my house, we wanted to avoid the extravagance of the extra vehicle and my wife also likes to cycle and walk for exercise, so it seems to be working out... In fact, our per-year car mileage seems to have gone way down.

All cars stink upon startup and most new cars have an auto-enriching cycle (revs a little higher than idle and runs rich air/fuel mixture, may even limit the car shifting into a higher gear if automatic) upon first start for the sole purpose of warming up the catalytic converter faster so it actually starts catalyzing. Drive for half an hour and then smell the exhaust gas, should be very little to no smell.
Nope. They all stink. Always have, always will.

Well I would think keeping the Jetta and just trading in the Thunderbird for the motorcycle might be the way to go. But it sounds like you are really jonesing for the Prius.

Personally I think the hybrids a a tad overrated. Just last night it was reported that the purported mpg for these cars were found to be too high and are going to be reduced.



But is the message reality?

Good luck!

Yeah, I love the Prius and yeah, I do not think I am really going to get 60mpg out of it. It is just so beautiful for a car - IMO anyway :)

And yeah, we might just keep the Jetta. As I said, it IS a really nice car. We got the demo model and man, it has it ALL. I'm convinced that there is a cappuccino maker somewhere on that sucker; I just haven't found it yet!

Going down to one car... big challenge! In our figuring, contemplating, etc. we figure that if we go the 'one car route' we'll try for a year. If it doesn't work out, we can always do something different.

If you had to use a motorized vehicle, which one would you drive?

i'd have a street-legal-altered 4-stroke supercross bike (250cc), and/or a sandrail/dunebuggy!