Mountain Biking - New Brakes

I jst got back from my LBS where I ordered about 100 bucks worth of stuff. I am getting new shifters,new brake levers,and new brakes.The Brakes are Deore V-brakes. I also dropped off my rear wheel to have it trued and tensioned. I hope my LBS shop dude likes me now:D No, I really like giving him business.

Fubar, did you have Canti's before?
You are going to love the stopping power of the V-brakes. Enjoy

Originally posted by Joe Pozer
Fubar, did you have Canti's before?
You are going to love the stopping power of the V-brakes. Enjoy

Yup I sure did, I got stinkin' tired of not getting the stopping power I wanted. It was more than power though, the canti's just didn't have the right feel when I used them.I am hoping that the V's will have a better feel. Next year, when I totally upgrade my bike I am going to get a new shock and hopefully put a disc up front.

So far I have been incredibly disappointed with the performance of my new brakes. I should have spent just a few dollars more and gotten Avids. Dad Gummit, you get what you pay for. Sometimes I think the prices these days are outrageous,but there is no substitute for good quality and performance. I am learning really fast, cheapest doesn't mean less money.

What's wrong with the brakes Fubar? The stopping power, the feel of them?
Eventhough they are Deore, they should still be much more powerful then the Canti's.

Maybe you have gunk on your rims. Clean the rims and use find sandpaper on your brake pads. See if that works.

Well, the springs in the brakes do not have equal tension, so it is very hard to adjust them correctly. Many times what happens is when I pull the brake lever, the calipers come up to the rim, and then I release one of the levers and only one caliper goes back to its original position, and the other caliper stays on the rim. My rear brake is terrible, it took me about 20 ft to stop going about 8 MPH. I have no idea what to do, I should have gotten Avids.

First, yeah, you should have got the Avids :D I got the single digit 2.5's and they were so easy to set the pads. Stopping power and feel are excellent. As far as your brakes not centering, there should be a tension adjuster on each arm. Tinker with that a little and I'm sure you'll be happier with the V's over canti's once you get them dialed in. The difference is night and day. No experience with the Deore V's, but they should be much better than your old canti's.....................

Good luck and enjoy

Originally posted by fubar5
Well, the springs in the brakes do not have equal tension, so it is very hard to adjust them correctly. Many times what happens is when I pull the brake lever, the calipers come up to the rim, and then I release one of the levers and only one caliper goes back to its original position, and the other caliper stays on the rim. My rear brake is terrible, it took me about 20 ft to stop going about 8 MPH. I have no idea what to do, I should have gotten Avids.

Did your LBS set these up for you? If not they should have you bought them there! Take them back and get the mech to adjust them and watch.
If not let me know and I will tell you how this is done.

I set them up. My LBS wants to charge me more money than I have to set them up. I am beginning to hate my LBS.

Originally posted by fubar5
I set them up. My LBS wants to charge me more money than I have to set them up. I am beginning to hate my LBS.

Sounds like a justified dislike to me! :(
The LBS should have installed these for you.
Take it in, talk to the owner, express your dismay nicely...
Then if they are uncooperative, time for a new LBS.

It shouldn't be that hard fubar...And for your bike shop to want to charge you after you bought the brakes from them...Well that just plain sucks! Bastards!!! :D Does your mounting boss have three holes? Where you place the pin enitially determines how much resistance your springs are gonna have. Make sure you have both arms mounted the same. You may want to inspect the tension adjusting screw on each arm and back them out so they are about the same before you start. With a little patients, you should be able to get them set. My Avids took just a little tinkering. The Deores should be similar. I'm sure someone can get a little more in depth than me... :p

Fubar, (and all others concerned). As a bike shop mechanic, I'm surprised to hear that they're charging you to install the brakes if you bought them at the LBS. Our shop policy is as follows: 1. We can't compete with mail order prices and don't intend to. We offer service, that comes at a cost. 2. If you buy a part from us, it gets installed gratise (free), unless it is a complete groupo and then it wouldn't be very much. 3. We have the proper tools we have the proper knowledge (most of the time), and we guarantee our work and warranty the product. That's worth something to you and us. 4. If you buy mail-order and ask us to install the parts, yes you will be charged for our time, usually as much as it would cost to buy the part from us initially. That is about as fair as we can be.

With that said, a little life lesson for all. Advice on adjustments is usually free unless you're a PITA, and you know if you are. If you hang out and have a friendly demeanor, and the shops not busy. We usually let our friends come in and work on their bikes in our shop. (bringing us snacks, drinks, you know the usually brown nosing stuff helps!) But most of all be nice, we deal with enough rude people everyday, we're all cyclists and all share a common pleasure. You'll get further with sugar than salt. Apply that to everything else in your life as well.

Now as far as your brakes go as mentioned above, make sure the calipers are mounted so the spring pin is in the same location for either side. I start at the middle hole and ride for a couple of days, if I want more power, I'll use the bottom hole and readjust the brakes again as follows:

1. Loosen the bolt on the caliper that holds the cable and turn you barrel adjuster at the lever 1 full turn out, and reclamp the cable.
2. Align your pads by removing the spring from the back of one of the caliper arms. This will cause that arm to pull tight against the rim. Loosen the brake pad bolt and line it up with the rim. Use a credit card between the rim and the pad at the back of the pad for a slight toe-in. Snug up the bolt. Then use the brake lever to squeeze the brake snug to fully tighten the pad. Tuck the spring back under the arm and repeat on the other side.
3. There are small screws on each caliper arm that adusts the spring tension. I personally like a lot of stopping force, so I screw these in all the way and then back out 1/2 turn.
4. Squeeze the lever and back out the spring adjustment screw of whichever side doesn't go back. Do this repeatadly untill the calipers return at the same rate and distance. Use small adjustments repeatadly.
5. As your cable stretches and it will if new. Use the barrel adjuster at the lever to set the initial contact feel at the lever. This is personal, I like mine about 2/3 of the way out, so if I have to grab a whole lot of brake, I have plenty there. Once you get to the point where the barrel adjuster is all the way out, put it all the way back in and retension the cable.

Hope that helps, and you should have plenty of power from the Deore's. Believe it or not, a lot of racers are using Deore's over XTR because they're easier to adjust and lighter. So IMHO, you done good boy!

Lator Gator:beer:

Here's a good site for bike repair info:

http://www.parktool.com/workshop.htm

Thanks for the advice vfboomer, I am going to reinstall/adjust the brakes all over again.

Wildhare, my rear mounting boss has three holes, right now I have the brake in the bottom. But I am still getting bad performance. But I'm gonna keep messing with it.

Originally posted by fubar5
Thanks for the advice vfboomer, I am going to reinstall/adjust the brakes all over again.

Wildhare, my rear mounting boss has three holes, right now I have the brake in the bottom. But I am still getting bad performance. But I'm gonna keep messing with it.

If you have them in the bottom, that is the "weakest setting." The top hole is the "strongest" setting. On a front fork set it on the top hole. There should be only two. On the back set it in the top hole. This will give yuo the most return action on the spring. Some do not like to set it on the top hole in the back they prefer the middle. Personally I like to cough and have the brakes engage.
When you go to adjust the screw, start off withthem half way in. This way you can adjust with some room. If you start all the way in you have no adjustment space going in.
When you make a screw adjustment, say the drive side you back it out a half turn, then adjust the non drive in a half turn. This insures equal tension from the center of the wheel.

Hunter, you're absolutely right about the hole location, I was thinking upside down I guess. Whoa is me!! But it is Friday and it's been a long week, please forgive me.

Lator Gator

I've been messing around with my brakes and tried out a few of the suggestions I got here. They work better now, not perfect, but they are getting better. I also did some adjustment to my brake levers and that helped a lot with the overall feel. I am a pretty lousy wrench I think.

I have been tinkering with my brakes some more guys, and they are getting better and better. One the rear brakes I have the stopper pin in the top hole of the rear boss mount, and I made some changes to the brake pads. In the font I put a new brake cable and tinkered with the tension screws. The difference is great, I can actually stop now:) which means I can ride faster. I think in the rear I am going to swap my B spacers (there are two sizes), because I think part of the problem with my rear brake is that the brake pads are to close to my rim, so I can't make adjustments without making the pads hit the rim.

my bike came with cantilever style brakes and since i ride in a variety of weather conditions this was somewhat of a hazard during the wet months here in Oregon. I quickly upgraded to the new (then 1996) shimano LX linear pull or what some people call V-brakes and was amazed how much less force was required. But the predictability of them is what made me a fan. In rain and dry conditions i could feel confident that my "pull" would result in what i expected. BTW, i'm thinking of upgrading to a hayes disc brake...what cha think about hayes on back and standard V's on the front?

Jamale,

I think the Hayes are great brakes, the Shimano XT's are good as well. I do however, think you should run the disc on the front and the vee-brake on the rear, since most of your stopping should come from the front.(Better control, better stopping, less skidding out) Try using more of your front brake on your next ride, something like 60 % front and 40% rear.

L8R G8R:cool:

Great advise Vfboomer...i do currently use my front brake more than my rear brake when it comes to downhill type of rides. But having never ridden a bike with disc's, i'm a little concerned about the "feel". This may be my lack of experience showing concerning discs..and i'll admit that....but is there a more or less "feel" when it comes to hayes?
OH...and after reading your post about installation of bike comps...does that include tube installs? (a little story here) I had a real bad experience when i had somehow lost my tools while on a treacherous ride and barely made it to a bike shop. I had aprox 20 miles left to go til i got home, and "they" wouldn't let me use a tool (even tho i had patches) so I had to pay for a tube and installation because i didn't have tire levers to do this simple task. the tube was 5 bucks and the install was also 5 bucks. not expensive but needless to say...i was alittle miffed at the lack of "community" and will never go there if i need anything that is available somewhere else...but i was just wondering what you thought about the policy of not loaning tools and then charging for installs of anything that is purchased from the store.
Thanks for the reply!
J

When i had my avid 1.0 brakes on my klein, the cables and all that crap always got water and mud in them...after a year of putting up with that $h!t, i finally spent the money on magura hydraulic rim brakes. I got the hs-33 raceline's, they have the dial on the lever. They are the sweetest brakes other than disc. The brake pads actually just snap on, simple as that. I use the dial on the lever so much...i dont know how i could do without it. Spend the extra money and get some maggie's...they are the best, no matter how much they weigh.

gosh...i love this place i found...(bikeforums.com)
I want to take the plunge and go discs front and back! (I think) I don't have any biker friends who are component saavy in the style that i ride, so i'm the one who's always the guinea pig! I've been to several websites and haven't seen a comparison between the mechanical vs. hydraulic. I'm not strictly a downhiller but more of a cross-country junkie who's not afraid of demanding steep declines and I prefer rough terrain. I love it all...'cept street. Weight is consideration however reliability and cost rank high on the list too. So here's the questions...

1. which brake do you think would suit my situation better? (mech. vs. hydrau. or ???)

2. on Ebay, what would be a fair price?

3. Any special considerations/info for a new disc user?

oh yeah...my LBS guy questions my desire for a new braking system, (he's a road racer and an excellent mechanic and nice to work with) and has warned me of the early problems with discs, so if i'm just being "silly" about wanting disc's vs my trusted Vee-brakes...please say so. I can take it!
thanks again!!

Nothing "silly" about wantin' stop your bike the best way possible :D I'm happy with my Avid single digit 25's. Switching to disks seems like it would be pretty expensive when you add up "everything" that's involved. Unless you are having problems with your current setup (or you have lots of money) I'd stick with what you've got. But that's just me...If I were building another bike from the ground up, then Iwould take a serious look at disks.

Okay...here is my take on discs vs Vees...
Disc brakes are much more powerful than Vees plus in the long run they require much less maintenance after the initial install. I run Magura Louise on my bike and I haven't had to do any maintenance on them in almost two years, just change brake pads.
Are they necessary? Well, only you can decide that. After riding a bike with discs for the past two years I couldn't imagine buying a new bike without them.

Mechanical discs...From what I've read the Avids and Hayes mechanical are supposed to be excellent alternatives to the hydraulics at a much lower price. The only drawback is that you still have to worry about changing cables. This problem can be alliviated (sp?) by using Goretex type cables.

Once again, I agree with Joe Pozer. The hydraulic disc are by far much better. However, that comes at a price. The Avid mechanicals are not quite as good, but better than Vee-brakes, they modulate well and very easy to set-up. Do you need discs? Depends on how and where you ride. You're from Oregon, so I would say "Yes" to needing them. The benefits come into play in foul weather, lots of mud, water crossings, bent rims...etc.

I personally have two bikes, one with and one without discs. They both stop very well. However, I live in FL and most of the time my biggest decent only lasts 15 - 20 seconds. In the Northwest your decents could last 15-20 minutes. In that much time, your vee-brakes will fade (due to the build-up of heat of the rim) and you will lose your stopping ability. Eariler discs also had this problem, but new models have overcome this.

The big question to ask yourself is this. Are you going to keep your current bike for at least another 2-3 years? If you answer, yes, than upgrading makes sense. If no, than wait till you buy a new bike and get one with the discs on the bike.

MSRP on a good set of brakes, rotors, hubs(lets say wheels) will run you in the neighborhood of $500.00 +/-. Used, probably around $300.00. But then you've got to ask yourself, "why are they selling them if they are in such good shape...etc."
You can purchase a new bike with discs for around $1000.00 and the longer you wait, the cheaper the bikes will get.

That's just my opinion, if you can get a complete set of brakes(hyraulics), and wheels for under $300.00 you've done well. Mechanical will obviously be cheaper, but if you ride agressively, I'd stick with the hydos.

L8R G8R

Hayes has some Mechanical discs now. If you go with discs you might want to check them out.

Yo Fubar,let me shed some light, firstly V or linear pull design calipers offer a lot more leverage than centre pull canti's,you already know this ,2nd stay with the "middle" hole on your brake bosses, 3rd standard shimano pads are very abrasive,please do you're rims and you a favour and grab some koolstop pads,thinline eagle's if my memory serve's me right, sure they are softer, but they offer more braking power, and less wear on the rims and It's easier for you to replace a set of pads than rims !. If you're dishing in the rims is correct and the axle's centered in the drop-outs it should be fairly straight-forward to adjust the spring tension..you're going for equal movement/distance from the rim,with "most" brands this is possible, but with Dia-Compe"s this simple task often becomes a stress fest..ie: set them up, squeeze the brake lever a couple of times and their offset again, !!! Oh and one tip!! don't tighten the caliper mount/bolt to much , do it up comfortably tight ie:do it up easily and when it stops.....an 1/8 of a turn more.!, any more can result in "splayed" ends on your caliper bosses, and that will "bind" the arms slowing their movement and once again making it real hard to calibrate..enjoy dude.. -Buddy.