General Cycling Discussion - Kryptonite lock failed??

Today, I rode in to teach my aerobics class. After I finished, I went out to my bike, and I was surprised to find a plain, Kryptonite u-lock attached to my bike with a note from management to see them for the key. I was perplexed because I had the Kryptonite Chain on my bike. I mean, why do I go through the stress of carrying that heavy-@ssed chain around anyway?

Well, I call management, and they came out and explained that one of the other instructors had their bikes stolen last week and they had a Kryptonite Chain, and apparently, someone cut the chain and stole their bike. So from now on, unless there was a u-lock on the bike, they planned on locking everyone's bike with their own u-locks and make us call inside to get someone from management come out and unlock the u lock. Strange... :confused:

Anyway, I told them I appreciated their efforts to protect us, but I couldn't believe that someone actually snapped the chain and stole the bike. They said that they considered the Kryptonite chain to be unreliable, and that I should carry a u-lock to ensure my bike is protected. I am now trying to figure out if the instructor was just negligent and improperly locked their bike and as a result, the bike was stolen, or if it IS true that these chains are unreliable. Has anyone heard of the Kryptonite chains being broken at all? I thought they were supposed to be the best on the market, yet someone managed to break through the chain in no time and steal a bike.

I ended up asking management to not lock my bike- I assured them I will come with two locks from now on- my chain and the paltry u-lock I now own. While I'm impressed with the concern of my club, I am also basically worried that I am a bit overconfident in the fact that these chains are supposed to be infallable. Obviously, it seems like they don't work as well as they were advertised to work, since the thief managed to cut through the chain so quickly and easily.

What's the verdict?

Koffee

HI,
I use the same chain. And I hope it works, because I simply could not replace this bike. It took me a whole year to get it together. I didn't go with the U-Lock because I go everywhere on the bike; and a lot of places don't have a good place to lock the bike.

A four-foot bolt cutter will make short work of pretty much any chain, even a Kryptonite New York, and professional bike thieves know what tools they need. IMO, the closer you are to an urban center, the less you can afford to compromise.

(My own unwillingness to compromise makes things simple: If my bike can't come in, neither can I. I never lock my bike outside anywhere, ever.)

I think the U-Lock + cable is still probably the best strategy, combined with riding an ugly, unattractive bike if you have to leave it outside.

RichC

Let me tell you folks some bad news. I am a tool freak and I have several tols in my shop that could enable me to get your bike faster than you could with your key.

The huge u-bolt style locks are the toughest I have seen but I even have a cutter that can snap those in one squeeeze of the handles. One of my old jobs required that I be able to cut padlocks off and I collected the tools to do so. I have not met a hardened shaft samller than 1/2 inch I could not snap in a few seconds.

If you lock it in a public area in plain view it is much safer. But under no circumstances leave it locked outside after dark. If some one wants that bike and they have the relatively cheap tools to get it it will be gone.

You also have to consider what you are locking it too. Would it be easy to break or cut the anchor you used? Locking your bike to a tree with a chain? A good axe with that tree as a backing plate will chop a chain of sizes smaller than 5/16th and most bike chains I see are much thinner than that.

Locks are to keep honest people honest. A skilled and well equipped theif will steal whatever he wants.

I feel ya, man... really, I do.

But this happened in front of a huge fitness club during prime time hours, right in front of the taxi stand (which is 2 steps away from the bike stand). I will photograph the area and post it next week, if I remember. Plus, the bike stand is literally in front of the windows of the management- their wall that faces the bike racks are literally less than 5 feet from the window, and the whole wall for the management office, which extends for about a quarter block, is all glass. I'm thinking- "in front of all this, how could someone snap the chain this quickly?". It seems like there's something odd going on here, or I am just being naive.

I'm still perplexed.

Koff

There is exactly one solution to the security problem: ride a beater to any occasion which requires you to leave your bike unattended. I have lost two bikes to thieves, but both were $20 yard sale specials.

You may appreciate the facilities management's concern for your bike security, but their tactics are too paternalistic and condescending for my tastes. You have the right to secure (or not secure) your bike in any fashion you see fit. A simple verbal or posted warning would have been better than inconveniencing you to seek out someone with a key.

You can bet that is about as secure a place as any to lock the bike. Considering that I'd say the risk is almost zero.

Will the management allow you to store the approved device at the front desk?

If you're saying the approved device is my bike or the lock, then no. You cannot bring your bike inside the building under any circumstances. :(

It's no big deal for me, I'll just bring two locks. I usually have my cheapie Kryptonite u-lock on me, plus the chain. I was just feeling too lazy to bring it today. Too bad for me- I had to wait 5 minutes to get management to come out and explain the situation to me, then get them to unlock the bike. It was just a surreal situation, that's all.

Sam, how long does it take to snap a chain that thick?

I have my two Kryptonite Ulocks- they are dead locks, and Kryptonite wanted me to send the locks back to be replaced, but I'm thinking I will get them to let me bring it in to Performance and trade them in for new ones, then I will use my Kryptonite New York 2000 U lock and the Kryptonite New York 2000 chain. Now, if they STILL break through all that, at that point, they can have the freakin' bike! Short of strapping it to my back, I can't see what more I can do. I never lock it anyplace unless it's a secure, visible location. That HAS to be as much as I can do without appearing obsessive about security.

Koff

Originally posted by Rich Clark
A four-foot bolt cutter will make short work of pretty much any chain, even a Kryptonite New York, and professional bike thieves know what tools they need. IMO, the closer you are to an urban center, the less you can afford to compromise.

(My own unwillingness to compromise makes things simple: If my bike can't come in, neither can I. I never lock my bike outside anywhere, ever.)

I think the U-Lock + cable is still probably the best strategy, combined with riding an ugly, unattractive bike if you have to leave it outside.

RichC

I agree with this post 100%...I don't trust ANY locks and if my bike has to be outside I don't go there...(unless I walk of course)

Originally posted by Koffee Brown


Sam, how long does it take to snap a chain that thick?

Koff

I have a pair of bolt cutters that will sever a link in a 1/2 inch chain in one swipe. About 5-10 seconds to place the cutter around the chain and another 2-5 to snap it. As a matter of fact I recently lost a key to a very large pro grade master lock and was so impressed at how handily my cutters snapped the lock. Made me realize once again how easy it is to break a lock and steal anything.

But in the visible area you describe I doubt it would happen. It would be so obvoius what is going on.

There are sevral places around here that I am ok with locking the bike up. But they are also very visible and publicly frequented.

I had the pleasure of breaking a kryptonite NY u-lock with a pair of 36" bolt cutter's (rented from Ace, $15 a day). It was hard work, and took around 5 minutes to do so, but not impossible.

(Ace did not have 42" or 48" bolt cutters in stock...)

Although the management of your heatlh club may be acting with good intentions, it is unacceptable for them to sieze your property by putting their lock on it without your consent. Do they also install wheel boots on automobiles to prevent cars from being stolen? If the management is so concerned about your bike, why don't they allow you to store it inside the building?

Good point.

Dunno... :confused:

<scratching head>

Maybe I'll bring this point up to them next week and see what happens.

Koff

[i]
Locks are to keep honest people honest. A skilled and well equipped theif will steal whatever he wants. [/B]


No WAY!

You will not be able to steal my bike. As there : one big steel U lock. one thick chain with combination lock. Three steel wire cables with key lock. One cryptonite combbinatation lock chain , extra heavy duty , made for BOATS. Another cryptonyte half inch cable with round lock that can not be cought without slipping. Plus, the bike will be outside where lots of people walk by.!

Thieves are same plane stupid people, even if they have "tools", they need to have some brain... I have another, more effective protective device, of my own design, that is not for public, it is secret, it is not very legal, if not to say more, and it will scare away 90% of thieves.

Originally posted by supcom
Although the management of your heatlh club may be acting with good intentions, it is unacceptable for them to sieze your property by putting their lock on it without your consent. Do they also install wheel boots on automobiles to prevent cars from being stolen? If the management is so concerned about your bike, why don't they allow you to store it inside the building?

I agree, what if they decide to take your underwear off, to save it from attempts to steal.
Same logic... draw the difference line...
What kind of Managment is this... You are not living in some wild country... Chicago...

Originally posted by Inoplanetyanin
I agree, what if they decide to take your underwear off, to save it from attempts to steal. Sorry??:confused: Your mind obvioulsy works in mysterious ways if you can connect protection of a bike to removing someone's underwear.

I need to be able to remove locks as well and have a scratch built gadget that will lever open a U lock in about 30 seconds without (usually) hurting anything else. The oxy/acetylene unit is also very effective.

Originally posted by MediaCreations
Sorry??:confused: Your mind obvioulsy works in mysterious ways if you can connect protection of a bike to removing someone's underwear.
You miss the point, mister.
It's not protection of a bike, it's a not asked for TAKING CARE of SOMEONE personal PROPERTY...

using underwear is exxageration, to give some dramatism...

to the post...

Originally posted by Rev.Chuck
I need to be able to remove locks as well and have a scratch built gadget that will lever open a U lock in about 30 seconds without (usually) hurting anything else. The oxy/acetylene unit is also very effective.

OF COURESE! If there are tools to CUT the steel BODY OF THE CAR in a HALF, often in only several minutes, there ARE going to be tools to remove some bicycle lock, it's just not all of it can be used in front of the store, without getting someone's attention!

This is just another case of the "50 pound bicycle" rule.
"All bicycles weigh 50 pounds:
A 20 pound bicycle needs 30 pounds of locks&chains;
A 30 pound bicycle needs 20 pounds of locks&chains;
A 40 pound bicycle needs 10 pounds of locks&chains;
And a 50 pound bicycle does not need a lock&chain."

Do things UNUSUAL way, suprize the thief, make a full of him, be creative, THINK! think what he is going to think and do the oppposite, 179º to the other side!

Combine locks, select good places, avoid living the bike for too long in "pustynnyh" areas...

I am going to make a NEW thread related to bike anti theft issue!

Originally posted by Inoplanetyanin
OF COURESE! If there are tool to CUT the steel BODY OF THE CAR in a HALF, often in only several minutes, there ARE going to be tools to remove some bicycle lock, it's just not all of it can be used in front of the store, without getting someone's attention!

You seem to assume that if the thief catches someone's attention, that someone will take action that will prevent the theft of the bike. While this is a possibility, I would think that it is unlikely. How many people will put themselves at risk simply to stop the theft of some bike? I would expect not many.

The best strategy is to make it not worth the thieves time for the value of the bike. If you have a 30 year old Schwinn protected by three separate locks, you're probably not going to run into trouble. On the other hand, if you have a brand new $3000 carbon fiber bike, you're a fool to let it out of your site on the street of any large city - regardless of the number of locks.

Two simple technologies that should make short order of any bike lock: Cutting torch and disk grinder.

I work a block from police headquarters. There are post and ring bike stands right out front. I lock up and walk the rest of the way. Even then I use a Kryptonite U-bolt and another Kryptonite cable lock for the front wheel.
So far so good.

Originally posted by supcom
You seem to assume that if the thief catches someone's attention, that someone will take action that will prevent the theft of the bike. While this is a possibility, I would think that it is unlikely. How many people will put themselves at risk simply to stop the theft of some bike? I would expect not many.


Of course there is no guarantee that someone WILL try to stop, but remember word WITNESS? ;)

Besides, there are some people who DO take some action...

Originally posted by Waxbytes
This is just another case of the "50 pound bicycle" rule.
"All bicycles weigh 50 pounds:
A 20 pound bicycle needs 30 pounds of locks&chains;
A 30 pound bicycle needs 20 pounds of locks&chains;
A 40 pound bicycle needs 10 pounds of locks&chains;
And a 50 pound bicycle does not need a lock&chain."

Everybody here who owns a freeride or dh bike can take offence to this...:mad:

I would say 90% of people take no action.. I remember a few years ago there was a tv show, they had a guy trying to break into a car on the street. Not one person tried to stop him, some even offered to help. They just thought he locked himself out of the car. Same principle here, all person would have to say is I lost my key. So unless someone specificaly knows that is you're bike, just try to make it as dificult as possible.

And if there is a witness, how the heck are you going to get that person to step up???????????

You all keep talking about cutting locks.

All it takes is some ***** and know how and you can brake a lock in seconds with no noise and one ever noticing. No need for big cutters.

Before you ask, I know this because we had a rash of bike thefts in an old neighberhood so we had to figure out how these guys were steeling the bikes right infornt of populated areas with no one noticing anything (and we all know how attentive people are to their enviorment:rolleyes: ).

:beer:

You don't need that type of equiptment anymore to break the New York Chain folks. The CV-Lock made by Kryptonite has been compromised big time. I was talking to a LBS owner last month and he showed me a device that will pick quite effectively the round-headed key used in Kryptonites' CV-Locks in seconds. It's incredible. NO ONE BIKE IS SAFE ANYMORE!

What makes this so crazy is you can buy this device!

You are correct no matter what you do, if you have something a thief wants he will get it. All you can do is try to make it inconvenient for him to get it. The locks will prevent some thieves who don't know the value of a bike, not the professional thief who knows what he is after.

He just because you have a 50lb bike you still need locks! Look at the banshee it must weigh almost that much :) How about 10 U-bolts and 10 New York chains. :)
So you invest about $1000 in locks.

Originally posted by SamDaBikinMan
Let me tell you folks some bad news. I am a tool freak and I have several tols in my shop that could enable me to get your bike faster than you could with your key.



What about my Abus Granit Chain and Lock? ;)

Overkill yeah, but it's all I got! (from my scooter you see..)

You could always leave the U-lock at the fitness club attached to the bike rack. That way you don't have to carry it.

I'd do that, but I go everywhere by bike. I need my locks with me at all times.

:(

The interesting solution is to park you bike with no or minimal lock. The management watches uses a HP rifle to take out a few thiefs eventually they learn. The right solution is to have an inside place to let you store it.
Joe

Maelstrom, I can understand your point. However I don't know may people riding ther DH bike around as a commuting bicycle.
So I think it unlikely to be needing to be locked up for hours downtown etc. Though I would find it interesting to see one
of the pencil legged junkies that steal bicycles try and pedal away fast on a DH bike.

A man, who owns good tools and portable oxy/acetylen torch, usually has something better to do than stealing old bikes.

Obviously, it is not always the case, since the bike was stolen near this club. It would be interesting to know what exactly and specifically happened to that man's bike. At least someone had to know it. Was there a cut chain left on the ground? Or the bike just disappeared in the thin air?

It seems it would be counterproductive for criminals to have the cut or otherwise damaged chain taken with them. It would be the "red hands" evidence. Unless the lock was picked neatly and taken away to avoid leaving finger prints behind.

If we know the exact information we may plan our actions on this info. If we just hear an urban legend, it gives us nothing.

I have heard that the narrower the shackle on a U-lock, the more difficult it is to break it--something about harder to work with. It sounds best to use the smallest U-lock that's practical. Funny theft story: A very tall racer was using his fixie for some errands in Portland. He left the 66cm custom Davidson outside a store on a very busy Southeast Portland street. He found it two blocks away; apparently a short bike thief who'd never ridden a fixed wheel took it for a joyride and had to ride it into some landscaping to stop! Maybe this was the reforming of a thief?

Originally posted by Waxbytes
Maelstrom, I can understand your point. However I don't know may people riding ther DH bike around as a commuting bicycle.
So I think it unlikely to be needing to be locked up for hours downtown etc. Though I would find it interesting to see one
of the pencil legged junkies that steal bicycles try and pedal away fast on a DH bike.

I guess I just live in an area where almost all the riders use thos bikes as commuters too ;)...I didn't actually look at it that way as I ride my ht as a commuter and it weight 37 pounds and is worth close to 3000$...:)