Advocacy & Safety - Why bike lane opponents ride in bike lanes.

There seems to be a lot of confusion on the point about why bike lane opponents like myself sometimes ride in bike lanes. I would like to dedicate a thread to clearing it up once and for all.

Yes, bike lane opponents do ride in bike lanes. This may seem contradictory, but remember, we're opposed to the presence of the bike lane stripe, not use of the the space it demarcates.

To understand this, picture in your mind a road with a bike lane with which you are familiar. For sake of discussion, let's refer to the space to the right of the stripe as roadway margin space, and to the space in the outside vehicular traffic lane adjacent to the bike lane as the outside lane primary travel space.

When you're riding in a bike lane, you're in the roadway margin space, and cars in the adjacent lane are passing you using the outside lane primary travel space.

Now, on a road like this, many of us who oppose bike lanes also (not coincidentally) prefer to ride in the outside lane primary travel space where we are more conspicuous, especially when faster same direction traffic is not present. But, we certainly use the roadway margin space, when safe and reasonable to do so, to allow faster traffic to pass us. The thing is, we use that roadway margin space for those good reasons whether or not it happens to be demarcated with a bike lane stripe. The same reasons apply whether or not the roadway margin space happens to be demarcated with a bike lane stripe. That's why we sometimes ride in bike lanes, even though we're opposed to bike lanes.

I hope this makes sense.

And I thought was part of a public service to improve the sweeping of bike lanes, using bike instead of car tires. :D

In addition, we may also use a paved shoulder in this manner, treating the shoulder as additional width of the lane, as if the white stripe were nonexistent. However, we may not use a bike lane or paved shoulder, riding in the "outside lane primary travel space," if a situation exists that may jeopardize safety or be otherwise unreasonable.

In addition, we may also use a paved shoulder in this manner, treating the shoulder as additional width of the lane, as if the white stripe were nonexistent. However, we may not use a bike lane or paved shoulder, riding in the "outside lane primary travel space," if a situation exists that may jeopardize safety or be otherwise unreasonable.
+1

i purposely try to avoid shoulders because where I live, they are always filled with broken glass and nails...

It's just a river of glass and nails ... most of the bike lanes around here are exactly the same as the shoulders - you guessed it - full of glass and nails.

crap.

i purposely try to avoid shoulders because where I live, they are always filled with broken glass and nails...

It's just a river of glass and nails ... most of the bike lanes around here are exactly the same as the shoulders - you guessed it - full of glass and nails.

crap.
Crap clutter is one of many reason to avoid bike lanes and shoulders.
Still, sometimes none of the reasons apply, and so the space demarcated by the bike lane or shoulder stripe is appropriate to use.

I had to read the post about four times to cut through the really confusing over-statement of his case here. In other words, he doesn't like bike lanes because he thinks he's safer and more conspicuous riding on the side of the road near the shoulder. He thinks the cars are going to treat the bike lane like a shoulder. Geez! Just say it.

I think it's pretty comical that HH will go to such lengths to try to get people to understand his anti-bike lane (but still rides in them anyway) position but will go to no lengths to understand how experienced cyclists can favor bike lanes (but still ride outside them sometimes anyway).

If there is no painted stripe, then isn't it called a "wide lane" and not a bike lane?
Forgive my ignorance and we have no bike lanes at all where I live.

I think it's pretty comical that HH will go to such lengths to try to get people to understand his anti-bike lane (but still rides in them anyway) position but will go to no lengths to understand how experienced cyclists can favor bike lanes (but still ride outside them sometimes anyway).
I make every effort I can to understand why some experienced cyclists favor bike lanes. And I bet I do understand it, and can explain it, better than you.

I had to read the post about four times to cut through the really confusing over-statement of his case here. In other words, he doesn't like bike lanes because he thinks he's safer and more conspicuous riding on the side of the road near the shoulder. He thinks the cars are going to treat the bike lane like a shoulder. Geez! Just say it.
I'm sorry, the post doesn't even attempt to explain why I or anyone else is opposed to bike lanes (and the reason is not "because he thinks he's safer and more conspicuous riding on the side of the road near the shoulder").

The OP attempts to explain why those of us who do oppose bike lanes, sometimes choose to ride in bike lanes anyway.

While I do believe many drivers (not cars) do see and treat bike lanes like shoulders, that's not directly relevant to the point of this thread.

We're missing option "D" - Hypocrisy.

so, you ride in bike lanes, head? you favor them sometimes.

this thread IS hilarious. what are you trying to say, head?

you do realize you're misinterpreting roadway striping don't you?most of us vehicular cyclists know how to ride on roads with bike lanes, helmie.

If there is no painted stripe, then isn't it called a "wide lane" and not a bike lane?
Forgive my ignorance and we have no bike lanes at all where I live.
Yes, if you have a road with bike lanes, and then remove the bike lane stripes, what remains are WOLs, or Wide Outside Lanes.

If you have a road without bike lanes, then the outside lanes may be wide or narrow. By "wide" I mean "wide enough for a bike and vehicle to safely travel side-by-side both fully within the lane". By "narrow" I mean not as wide enough to be "wide".

A wide lane is at least 14 if not 15 feet wide. Any lane much narrower is typically too narrow to be shared, except perhaps at very low speeds.

so, bike lane opponents ride in bike lanes? interesting....

OK, I just don't get it.
Is it the paint that offends you? Such as hanging your elbows over the painted line? Are you afraid that a car will whack your arm off in passing to close and you are going to get cited for traveling outside of your lane because your arm was hanging over the painted stripe?

cars need to overtake vehicles and bikes safely, crosseyed cricket. regardless of lane position.

cars need to overtake vehicles and bikes safely, crosseyed cricket. regardless of lane position.
this I know
I'm just trying to figure out what in the name of all that which is good and sweet in Odins beard this thread is all about.

somehow explaining his hipocracy.

helmie doesn't like bike lanes, but he uses them when he likes them.

somehow explaining his hipocracy.

helmie doesn't like bike lanes, but he uses them when he likes them.

Well I don't like using condems, but I DO use them when it is necessary.
Though I'll not advocate against using condems.

Naw, i think its MORE like Mormons that drink AND gamble- but only in Nevada. -never in Utah. ;)

Naw, i think its MORE like Mormons that drink AND gamble- but only in Nevada. -never in Utah. ;)
I read that nine times before I realized it didn't say "morons".
hehe

There are plenty other threads that detail why one wouldn't want bike lanes. I think he's pretty much saying the space would be just as useful without the stripe, and he's going to use it as such.

There are plenty other threads that detail why one wouldn't want bike lanes. I think he's pretty much saying the space would be just as useful without the stripe, and he's going to use it as such.

but where I live, if there is a shoulder available, then you would not be allowed to use that space UNLESS there was a bike lane there

yeah, but wide outside lanes are NOT as useful as bike lanes. a bike can always get stopped by congested traffic in wide outside lanes, but bike lanes allow bikes to pass congested traffic.

additionally, a bike lane presents LESS ambuigity on a road than a wide outside lane. additionally, in a wide lane, attempting to control a wide lane leaves cyclists open to being passed on both sides.

now, helemt head says he doesn't like bike lanes, but he likes them when he rides in them. he uses bike lanes to his advantage, similar to other vehicular cyclists. he swerves in anod out of lanes a bit much, but he's free to ride all crazywampus, but most vehicular cyclists find his technique of weaving in and out of a lane depending on traffic overtaking as unwarranted and unnecessary.

helemt is against bike lanes politically, not the benefits he receives when using them. when he actually rides. i believe he's posted he drives his commute more often than he rides. I can see where bike lanes make less sense to a guy that drives a lot, i can see that.

anyway, helemt head is against bike lanes, except when he uses a bike lane.

= Like mormons that only drink and gamble in Nevada, but drive to Sacramento from Salt Lake City often.

OK, I just don't get it.
Is it the paint that offends you? Such as hanging your elbows over the painted line? Are you afraid that a car will whack your arm off in passing to close and you are going to get cited for traveling outside of your lane because your arm was hanging over the painted stripe?
Again, this thread is about why those who oppose bike lanes ride in bike lanes.
If you are interested in why someone would oppose bike lanes in the first place, you might want to check out the bike lanes sticky thread.

My post was in regards to "Option 3" in the poll. I don't understand what you are asking or hinting at.

My post was in regards to "Option 3" in the poll. I don't understand what you are asking or hinting at. All I am asking is whether the OP explains to you why those who oppose bike lanes ride in bike lanes. There is no hinting.

Your questions... Is it the paint that offends you? Such as hanging your elbows over the painted line? Are you afraid that a car will whack your arm off in passing to close and you are going to get cited for traveling outside of your lane because your arm was hanging over the painted stripe?... all seem to be related to the question of why someone might oppose bike lanes, which is not what this thread is about.

Well then, nope. It doesn't.
Maybe i'm too drunk, it's 3:30AM gosh darnit!! It's too early for me to understand anything other than a hangover!
Stop asking me all these questions, can't you see what it is doing to me?
*grabs a rope and chair*

Okay, now I know I am too messed up to be posting still.
That post above my last one totally changed on me, I must be seeing things!!
stupid purple elephants

We're missing option "D" - Hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is claiming to have standards to which one himself does not conform.

If bike lane opponents were opposed to riding in bike lanes at all times (even when it is appropriate to do so), yet they rode in bike lanes themselves, that would be hypocrisy.

But bike lane opponents are opposed to bike lanes per se; they are not opposed to riding in bike lanes (at least not when it's appropriate to do so). So for bike lane opponents to ride in bike lanes (when it is appropriate to do so) is not hypocrisy.

Having said that, I know at least one opponent of riding in bike lanes. But he claims he never rides in them himself, so he's not a hypocrite either.

so, you don't agree with bike lanes, but ride in them when it suits you. hypocrite.

a bike lane does define space on a road, just line other lane stripes, and a bicyclist can take advantage of that space. lane striping presents less ambigious road position than wide outside lanes, that can be driven in willy nilly by auto traffic, clog lanes, clog intersection approaches, etc.

and vehicular cyclists know how to use a bike lane- well, not all of them!

so, helemt head, in my analogous eye,

you like a mormon that doesn't drink or gamble, except when in Nevada, because there are casinos that serve free drinks there, and you drive between Vernal and San Diego a lot.