Commuting - A bike to do it all- Cannondale Bad Boy?

I do a 4 mile urban commute with option of a crushed stone shortcut. I like to explore and sometimes end up on dirt roads, stream crossings, railroad beds etc. I have done this for years on a cheap steel mtnbike but I just got tired of being passed on the way to work by people on skinny tired road bikes. A jerk at the LBS talked me into a hybrid-big mistake: two days in the hospital and a separated shoulder. I love the stability and riding position of a mtn bike frame. I have been test riding a Cannondale Bad Boy. It feels FANTASTIC. Wonderfully stiff, amazingly light, totally in control on the pavement, and really fast. But I am wondering about the 28 mm tires. Am I kidding myself that I can take this thing off the asphault? I do not plan to switch wheels and I think 37 mm is as fat as you can get on that frame. Can I have it both ways? Is there a bike that will do it all? Is it the Bad Boy?

Thanks for the advice. JF

I'm a little curious as to why the hybrid is the reason you ended up messing up your shoulder, but aside from that, any tire from 30mm and upwards will be fine, so long as you are comfortable on the frame, and know to pick your spots and stay alert on the gravelly stuff.

I'm a little curious as to why the hybrid is the reason you ended up messing up your shoulder,


Front tire left the road on a tight turn at 25 mph on clean dry pavement. Maybe not enough weight up front. LBS guy thought maybe I was a little too agressive for that kind of bike. A little late to figure that one out. My doc laughed and started telling me about HIS bike crash and separated shoulder...

Thanks for your opinion.

You can slap 700c CX tires on it for off-roading fun. It won't be as fast on the street as slicks, but it'll give you some traction on dirt trails.

I love mine. It's an older one with 26" tires. Awesome fun bike.

isnt the bad-boy a hybrid? (albeit a hybrid on steroids?)

Look at the Scott Sub, it's a possibility!

http://www.scottusa.com/category.php?UID=315

Can I have it both ways? Is there a bike that will do it all? Is it the Bad Boy?

Thanks for the advice. JF You can get bikes that'll do it all, but I honestly don't think it's the Bad Boy, as it's still more mountain bike than road. You'll certainly pass your fair share of fat-tire knobbie riders, but a 48 tooth crank along with the upright / non-aero posture means that you'll still be struggling to keep up with dedicated road bikes. The Bad Boy is an undeniably slick bike, but its appeal is, like the titular Bad Boy archetype, image. Ninja black finish, swanky graphics on the downtube, black rims, sleek lines, black components ... oh, did I mention how black this bike was? ;)

You can take a lot of road bikes off asphalt with 28mm tires. Hell, last year, I did a 100 mile ride that was basically doubletrack and carriage roads on a touring road bike with 28mm tires, and I saw a lot of guys riding with me on some pretty thin and graceful cyclocross bikes. My girlfriend and I have taken our bikes camping several times, and I've been totally fine with the gravel and dirt roads that you'll find in places like Acadia National Park. But you should ask yourself where you do most of your riding. If it's a lot of trails and technical singletrack with maybe half pavement and urban commuting, then the Bad Boy would probably work out. If it's mostly pavement and only an occasional foray off into the dirt, with mostly fire roads and rail beds, but nothing too specifically gnarly, then I'd look at a cyclocross or light touring bike.

I used to be a fan of the upright mountain bike position, too ... but that fades after a week of riding in the drops; and is replaced with the happiness of being able to draft or be drafted by other riders on the pavement.

Sounds like you were riding too fast for your ability. You know the old saying "A bad workman always blames his tools". What did you expect to happen taking a sharp turn at 25mph.

In my way of thinking a do it all bike would have to accommodate a tire larger than 37mm which is about 1.5". I'd say 2.35" or 60mm is more like it.
Also, the head angle of a Bad Boy is 70 degrees. That's very slack. I'd say 72 degrees is more like it.
There are bikes that take fat tires and have 72 degree or steeper head angles. They are 29er mountain bikes. But be careful, some 29er frames have a slack head angle such as the Cannondale Caffeine, 70 degrees.
A slack head angle is an artifact of the deficiency of 26" wheeled mountain bikes. They have a slack head angle to keep you from going over the bars.
The hipper 29er makers have discovered that a slack head angle is not needed because 29er wheels roll over trail obstacles better. So, their bikes have steeper head angles, more like a road bike.
I like the Surly karate Monkey but it's steel and may be heavier than you want. Niner makes some light aluminum 29er hardtails. Also check out Soma's offerings.

In my way of thinking a do it all bike would have to accommodate a tire larger than 37mm which is about 1.5". I'd say 2.35" or 60mm is more like it.
Also, the head angle of a Bad Boy is 70 degrees. That's very slack. I'd say 72 degrees is more like it.
There are bikes that take fat tires and have 72 degree or steeper head angles. They are 29er (700c) mountain bikes. But be careful, some 29er frames have a slack head angle such as the Cannondale Caffeine, 70 degrees.
A slack head angle is an artifact of the deficiency of 26" wheels. The slack head angle is to keep you from going over the bars.
The hipper 29er makers have discovered that a slack head angle is not needed because 29er wheels roll over trail obstacles better. So, their bikes have steeper head angles, more like a road bike.
I like the Surly Karate Monkey but it's steel and may be heavier than you want. Niner makes some light aluminum 29er hardtails. Also check out Soma's offerings. Any of them can be run with a rigid fork.

isnt the bad-boy a hybrid? (albeit a hybrid on steroids?)

Yes, it is. The 26" varieties were more of a MTB with slicks. The current 700c line is firmly hybrid - whatever that really means.

I'm not really sure how a style of bike is going to make you crash. I could see if you were saying it was the tires, or a junk front shock.

Anyway, I would recommend getting something with at least clearance for 35c. That would give you access to plenty of good road tires, and most of the cross tires. Whether the bike itself is a flatbar hybrid, or a dropbar cross bike seems more about personal preference.

Hmmm - this (general) topic seems to come up often. As many responses already implicitly suggest, you might consider the following: the real (as opposed to subjective) difference in average/sustainable speed at a high pace is between road geometry/drop bar (road race, cross, light touring) and off-road geometry/flat bar bikes: the former place you in a more aerodynamic position which utilizes different muscle groups in pedalling -- wheel size has nothing to do with it (gearing can be altered easily to account for this). I would suggest that the Bad Boy feels fast (and is prob. faster) than your old mtb simply because it's lighter, has better rolling tires, and road-oriented gearing. If you switched (as you could) to high quality 1.5" slicks on 26" wheels on the BB, very little if any real difference in speed, imho. Put another way, as others have suggested, think through what you like/how you will use the bike. If you like sustainable high speeds, stay mostly on pavement, why not a good road or cross bike with suitable tires? If (as you say) you really like the mtb feel/position, and do spend a good amount of time off-road on non-technical terrain, then why not just get a really good, light h/t (e.g. instead of the Bad Boy buy an F600 or [now] Caffeine F3) for less money and put on appropriate tires/perhaps play with the gearing if necessary. You'll fly past riders on knobbies just as well as with the BB, and even with the BB you still won't be able to play with the roadies!;)

A slack head angle is an artifact of the deficiency of 26" wheels. The slack head angle is to keep you from going over the bars.WTF? :roflmao:

Well, let's not lose sight of the fact that this is a four-mile commute.

Bad Boy would be perfect for that. I think they're pretty slick looking, too.

WTF? :roflmao:

+1! Where on (flat) earth did this one (70d h/a on mtbs to stop endos) come from?!? Had the urge to respond similiarly above, but wanted to address the OP's concerns! Oh well.

Well, let's not lose sight of the fact that this is a four-mile commute.

Maybe a Bianchi Milano or a Raleigh Sports if the road is pretty flat... :D

A slack head angle is an artifact of the deficiency of 26" wheels. The slack head angle is to keep you from going over the bars.


If we're slinging mud at 26" wheel bikes, I'd suggest needing a larger wheel diameter to prevent endos is an artifact of not equiping the bike with a 7" travel fork.

:D

I loved my '06 BB Ultra, until it got ripped off a month or so ago. They're great all-around bikes, especially for city commuting. But they are a major target for thieves, so keep it inside or at the very least, locked up with one of those massive chains. My heart is still broken over losing Black Sugar.

If we're slinging mud at 26" wheel bikes, I'd suggest needing a larger wheel diameter to prevent endos is an artifact of not equiping the bike with a 7" travel fork.

:D
Or not having mad skillz! :lol:

[QUOTE=ghettocruiser]If we're slinging mud at 26" wheel bikes, I'd suggest needing a larger wheel diameter to prevent endos is an artifact of not equiping the bike with a 7" travel fork.

Well said! I wonder -- is the gang over at the mtbr 29er board sending out moles to burrow into BF?
Just remember, switching to a 29er will magically i) make you faster in ALL situations, ii) dramatically improve your bike handling skills in ALL situations, and iii) end global warming. Oh, and iv) no more endos!;)

I loved my '06 BB Ultra, until it got ripped off a month or so ago. They're great all-around bikes, especially for city commuting. But they are a major target for thieves, so keep it inside or at the very least, locked up with one of those massive chains. My heart is still broken over losing Black Sugar.

Good point. I saw a BB disc at REI, and felt such a sudden urge to own it -- even though I had just finished building my dream commuter. I imagine they're stolen a lot.

The Bad Boy seems very similar to the Trek FX, which my wife rides. Should be perfect for the OP's ride. She rides on dirt roads a lot with the road slicks. I suppose if we were doing some muddy trails I could get her some knobbies.

Bad Boy specs (http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/07/cusa/urban/badboy/model-7BR.html) Trek 7.5 FX specs (http://www2.trekbikes.com/bikes/bike.php?bikeid=1341000&f=26)

To me, the Trek specs out as the nicer bike but really matters is does the bike fit you.

Slack head angles and super long travel suspension forks are both artifacts of the deficiency of 26" wheels.

I just recently bought a Surly Crosscheck and find it is the best of all worlds.. Uses 700c wheels, can be used on and off road as well as light touring if you decide to that down the road.. I outfitted mine with a triple crankset so I can ride most of the trails in the mountains.. They can be found built for under 1000.00 new.. The can run tires up to 700x45..

http://www.surlybikes.com/crosscheck_comp.html

Sounds like you were riding too fast for your ability. You know the old saying "A bad workman always blames his tools". What did you expect to happen taking a sharp turn at 25mph.

My Specialized hard rock ate that turn up every day for four years. 25 mph was conservative becuase the hybrid felt so squirrely. And indeed it was ! that's why I am now leery of tall bikes with short wheelbase and a small 'trail'. Bad boy is a mountainbike frame with roadish tires.

Seems like I pushed some buttons here. I appreciate everyone's ideas. The Scott bike looks very interesting and someone actually sells it here in Pittsburgh. I will also check out the surly and Trek 7.5, both close contenders to the BB (but not so BLACK). Everyone seems to agree, it's how it feels under you that counts. It's good to know that I dont really need super-fat tires to go off road now and then.


Last question: slick, knobbie or some kind of mixture. Anyone have an opinion?

Good rides!

JF

Seems like I pushed some buttons here. I appreciate everyone's ideas. The Scott bike looks very interesting and someone actually sells it here in Pittsburgh. I will also check out the surly and Trek 7.5, both close contenders to the BB (but not so BLACK). Everyone seems to agree, it's how it feels under you that counts. It's good to know that I dont really need super-fat tires to go off road now and then.


Last question: slick, knobbie or some kind of mixture. Anyone have an opinion?

Good rides!

JF

Slick or inverted tread slicks for me. Never knobbies unless on the trails, or snow.

If you're going to be riding on stone,I'd suggest Specialized Infinities. I've got a set on my Fuji and like them. They have some tread,but take 100psi and roll smooth. They also have puncture protection. Not sure how skinny they get,but they make 32's and 35's.

+1 on the cross-check. I dig mine. I went with my cross-check to experience building my own bike from the frame up, but I just like building things. It doesn't look as cool as the Bad Boy, but it has everything it needs to ride on the road or off the road.

With a little creativity the cross-check could be the "blackest" on the road. Black frame, cranks, bars etc...