Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - Lights? Batts or Gen?

According to the internet a BUCKPUCK is a line of LED power modules that provide true current regulated drivers for LEDs.

By the way; the last time this subject came up here on this forum, there were some that were rigging up LED flashlights to their handlebars for backup lights or for some their main lights. I made the comment that I bought a 2 AA Maglight 1 watt LED light and thought the light was bright for what it was. UPDATE: The first LED Maglight (the actual brand) light I had was indeed fairly bright but after about 3 weeks of rarely using it it began to turn off by itself shortly after being turned on, like something was getting hot so a safety thing took over because it would last about 1 minute when first turned on but subsequent turn ons after that were dramatically shorter; so I took it back and got another one. The 2nd one for some reason wasn't as bright as the first one and about a week later the head came real loose so I had to take it back. The 3rd one still wasn't as bright as the first one, and about 3 weeks later it too would turn off by itself just as the first one did. When I went back to get a 4th one, Walmart no longer had the 2AA Maglight LED's on the shelf (was that because of problems?), so I got a 2AA Maglight Krypton bulb unit instead. One thing I noticed about this light is that is appears to be brighter then the 1 Watt LED unit but has that warmer yellow white color instead of the colder blue white; also the Krypton light has a wider response to going from spot to flood whereas the LED model response was very limited.

Here are my repetitive feelings on the issue, with a few new things thrown in:

Myself and the two guys I've been doing brevets with ride these primary lighting systems (we all ride recumbents):

me- Dinotte 200 lumen 5W LED (highly recommended) running off 4AA 2600 mAH rechargeable batteries (from battery space). I run this light on the low setting and am getting 4+ hours of perfectly regulated lighting, even with temps around 40 F. (I am thoroughly impressed)

Friend 1- schmidt dynohub with solidlights dual 3W LED.

Friend 2- schmidt dynohub with 2 Inoled 20 headlights.

All three lights are pretty comparable in effectiveness, but go about it in a different way.

The Dinotte beam is circular but a very nice beam that is not too narrow to give the "riding in a hallway of light" feeling but bright enough to give me confidence at 25 MPH.

The solidlights, while being technically the highest powered lights, put out a much less focused beam pattern which lights up alot of road, but doesnt cast its beam that far. I'd love to see this light with more focused LEDs/lenses.

The Inoled 20's are very nice and have a focused beam with a sharp cutoff at the beam's top edge. Although lower powered than the solidlights they seem to be better suited for fast descending (which recumbents are known for).

I got the battery powered lights for these reasons:
-This is my first brevet series and i didint want to commit 6-700 bucks to a product intended for a sport I may dislike.
-my recumbent uses 26" wheels, my commuting bike/road bike are 700c so aside from randos and touring the schmidt hub would be unused. I can use the Dinotte on any bike i please and i can use it as a great flashlight too.
-If i do get a dynohub wheel built, i can still use the Dinotte for a super backup system that sacrifices nothing.
-I didnt have the time to have a wheel built up before my 300k, so no choice here.

That said, I'd love a dynohub!! wanna buy me one?

Things to think about:
-Light placement: get them on the fork blades (we all run them low on the fork blades), crown or handlebar so that your light comes with you when you turn your bars. Having them low on the fork blade really allows potholes to cast long shadows making them more apparent, and thus safer riding for you.
- I really like the idea of an extra light used for fast descents, it should help conserve battery durring climbs but also act as a backup light if you use a dyno. the extra speed/safety may be worth the weight.

Thats my 67 cents.

-Leo

I picked up an Inolight 20+ from Peter White to use with my soon to be installed SON hub. I believe it's a two watt LED.

Unfortunately I can't comment on it's usefulness yet since the bike is still being assembled. It should be interesting to compare it to my offroad lighting systems.

~Jamie

Yes, it's a 2-watt LED...would love to hear how it performs! :)

me- Dinotte 200 lumen 5W LED (highly recommended) running off 4AA 2600 mAH rechargeable batteries (from battery space). I run this light on the low setting and am getting 4+ hours of perfectly regulated lighting, even with temps around 40 F. (I am thoroughly impressed)



I can't figure out which Dinotte product you have because the specs you quote don't meet the specs on their website.

I called Dinotte and this is what I was sold based on my requirements, it was more expensive than the normal 5 watter but i didnt get the charger or batteries so it came to 170ish with 5 battery carriers, 3 rubber bands, 2 nylon sheaths, the headlight adapter, a few velcro cord keepers and of course the light body. I recommend you call them and tell them what you'd like, they were very helpful. The more powerful/efficient LED in my light is the LED that most of their lights are now being spec'd with i think such as their 500L behemoth. Over 4 hours in chilly weather on rechargeable batts (Lithium Ions should give even more run time) and quite a bit of light seems impossible, but these new LED are just so efficient.

I cant wait to see what kind of dyno lighting will be possible with 2 super bright/efficient 3W LEDs and lenses similar to E6's. That would be something like 260 or more lumens, a crazy amount of light with no bulb burnouts, strobing at low speed or inefficient halogen bulbs. You could run a bottle generator off the real wheel and have a HID rivaling 500ish lumens with 0 batteries, but that would be crazy...

Anyways, give them a call if you like their number's on the web somewhere.

Cheers,

-Leo

Ahhh...that explains everything! Thanks Idesfor1. :)

There's a company called Reelight (http://reelight.com.linux98.123hotel.dk/index_en.php). They sell front & back flashing lights powered by magnets attached to the spokes. The lights themselves attach to the hub at the skewer. If anyone has experience with these, let's hear it.

Also, here is a hack (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/581888/10_police_flashlight_hack/)for turning a $10 flashlight into a light more powerful than a Surefire E2. Replace the bulb with a krypton bulb, and add three new lithium batteries - and vie ola, a super bright flashlight.

Yes, it's a 2-watt LED...would love to hear how it performs! :)

I've got the Inolight 20+, the beam is very nice, broad and bright. Be sure to get a wired tailight if you are using a dynohub as mine was fried after a 35+ mile descent on a 400k brevet 2 months ago. Peter White was very good about replacing the light and throwing in a wired tailight at no charge. That said I've been using a Schmidt dyno hub with two e-6 halogen lights for the past several brevets I've ridden. I was a bit nervous about riding with the Inolight 20+ again but several randonnuers I know have been using them with wired taillights, no problems (I've been on 40+ mile descents with them in the dark).

I have the Inolight 20+ on my touring/commuting bike now powered with a Shimano dyno hub.

I've got the Inolight 20+, the beam is very nice, broad and bright. Be sure to get a wired tailight if you are using a dynohub as mine was fried after a 35+ mile descent on a 400k brevet 2 months ago. Peter White was very good about replacing the light and throwing in a wired tailight at no charge. That said I've been using a Schmidt dyno hub with two e-6 halogen lights for the past several brevets I've ridden. I was a bit nervous about riding with the Inolight 20+ again but several randonnuers I know have been using them with wired taillights, no problems (I've been on 40+ mile descents with them in the dark).

I have the Inolight 20+ on my touring/commuting bike now powered with a Shimano dyno hub.

Thank you for your input! There's no way that I can justify spending the money on dynohubs but bottle dynamos may be do-able. Budget's pretty tight which is a real problem.

I can't figure out which Dinotte product you have because the specs you quote don't meet the specs on their website.


It is confusing. They have been coming out with newer 200L lights. If you look at the upgrade page, buying a 5W light you get the upgrade to the newer 200L for free. I imagine after the upgrade promotion the website will be updated to reflect the new lights.

That being said. Their 500L "Brevet Package" looks interesting. Really bright but small light. 3 batteries and 2 chargers for up to 30 hours of light. Not bad.

For all the generator fans. I do agree they are pretty cool. But you keep saying how much better they are than lights. One thing nobody talks about though is that they are a mechanical device. I would imagine therefore that they can and do break down. How is their overall reliability/serviceability?

-D

For all the generator fans. I do agree they are pretty cool. But you keep saying how much better they are than lights. One thing nobody talks about though is that they are a mechanical device. I would imagine therefore that they can and do break down. How is their overall reliability/serviceability?

-D

Schmidt hubs have a very good reputation for reliability.

Here's a quick vote for batteries. Been riding with my Niterider Moab this season and the light is amazing. On its lowest setting it burns for 14 hours and is considerably brighter than any generator-run light that I've seen. It's spendy -- I got mine for $570 -- but that's not so different from many generator systems as to be a real consideration. The burn-time is long enough that the only rides where that would ever be an issue would be uncrewed 500+-mile races (where you have no night-time follow vehicle) or a 1200K. (And if you're fast enough, neither of those is a problem, either.) I plan on riding PBP with this light, without recharging the Li-ion battery. The argument that I'd make for such a system is that the vast majority of riding we randonneurs do calls for a huge amount of light over a short amount of time (i.e., just one complete day-night cycle). The Moab delivers that.

Alright, unleash the hounds!

I really like my cheapo Princeton Tec EOS bike light, upgraded with the new generation Seoul SSC P4 LED (see candlepowerforums.com for "PT eos mod" ); brighter and more spill light than the stock version. After adding a case for rechargeable AA batteries (instead the AAAs it uses by default; and my present setup) it is supposed to last for 20 hours on mixed high/medium output usage.
Two of these lights would already be luxury for roadbiking. The light itself is available for about $30 and is waterproof ; new LED and a new reflector are costing about $7 each.

The candlepower forum has many discussions on PT EOS mods like this one:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=149500

Machka's message on page one talking about flashlights for headlights is actually right on:

I was at a local Target store in Minnesota and they had a 6 watt LED flashlight and that
was brighter than both of my headlights put together and then some. It was expensive
but brighter than any other LED light I've seen yet.

I'd love to get one and tear it apart to turn it into a headlight.

I also was given as a gift two aluminum cased flashlights that have 18 white leds in
them (each!) and they are also brighter than my two Casio EL300s put together. I'm
considering rigging them up as headlights to see how they do - they use 3 triple A
batteries apiece.

LEDs by far have the longest battery light per lumen over other light sources - the
other thing to consider is that with LEDs since they are dimmer usually than most
light sources you might need to get multiples of them to increase light output or if
you are doing an uber long ride you may need to stagger their use to insure you
have light for the duration of ride you're attempting in the dark.

Machka's message on page one talking about flashlights for headlights is actually right on

though, I think that the flashlights that Machka might've been referring to, the ones that you might find in Europe on PBP are a slightly different animal (http://www.velo-orange.com/refl.html) than the one you're discussing, since a lot of folks who sport those lights do it as an homage to the early bike tourists from pre-war days.


ie.
http://pics.livejournal.com/cris/pic/000558b6/s640x480

there's definitely a certain retro-chic coolness to matching a chrome flashlight to a silver rack and chrome fenders, but that's rather different from a fancy, modern, LED light setup.

If you're interested in DIY'ing something, you could check out the bikecurrent (http://lists.topica.com/lists/bikecurrent/) list, which is all about do-it-yourself electronics setups. I spent a good chunk of my 600k riding with a guy who built his own light setup with a trio of 3-watt Luxeon LEDs. You can a brief description of his rig on his blog (http://www.jkassen.org/loadpage2.php?pageid=65).

Machka's message on page one talking about flashlights for headlights is actually right on:

I was at a local Target store in Minnesota and they had a 6 watt LED flashlight and that
was brighter than both of my headlights put together and then some. It was expensive
but brighter than any other LED light I've seen yet.
.

I went to their web site but only found a 3 watt LED called the Eddie Bauer V2, and that was the same manufacture (and style) that I bought a light from a Target store about 3 years ago that broke very easily.

I'll head to the Target near my house after work to get the specs and brandname, it was
around fifty US dollars (like I say, they don't give them away) and the bummer part of it
is that the power switch was a momentary switch from what I could tell - you couldn't
tell it to stay on.

I had problems with that Eddie Bauer LED light as well as with the MagLight LED light which surprised me, I had 3 failures with the Maglight. I now have the 2 AA Krypton Maglight since Walmart no longer had any of the LED ones, and this one works better?! Weird since it's the same light style, takes the same 2 AA batteries, same everything except the bulb and it was cheaper.

(snip)

Originally Posted by IronMac
Yes, it's a 2-watt LED...would love to hear how it performs!

(end snip)

I've had my new Surly LHT frame since Friday and ridden it about 250 km now including about 60 km on country roads in the dark. The SON hub combined with my Inoled 20+ is really, really good. It's not as bright as my offroad, helmet mounted light that only lasts four hours of runtime but it is light years better then any of the more commonly used battery powered lights.

My primary concern is it's usefulness at touring speeds averaging about 20 km/hr. I was running at 26 - 32 km/hour on those country roads with no concerns about being unable to see far enough ahead.

I combined it with a dynamo powered rear tail light with LEDs as well so the potential issue of melting the circuit board mentioned by another poster is taken care of.

Other things I love about this lighting setup over battery powered lights:

- The Inoled 20+ is rated for 30,000 hours of runtime meaning that I can actually have daylight running lights that are indeed very visible to cars, pedestrians etc

- I chose a tail light that can be powered by AA batteries or the dyna hub and includes a mode where it will run from the dyno hub until power drops too much so it switches over to the batteries

- The Inoled has a standing light that's also very visible at night for those times when you aren't moving

- The absolute freedom from worrying about battery run time

- My inability to actually tell that I have the dynohub on the bike with or without the lights turned on

About the only downside that I've noticied so far is that in very tight, non-road turns the beam isn't quite wide enough to allow you to see completely around the turn. This seems to only be a problem on multi-use paths that like to curve alot. A headlamp or a second Inoled 20+ would probably fix this to a great extent.

~Jamie N