Electric Bikes - Electric Bike Update(for those who have abandoned the original thread)

Hi all!
I read with interest the thread started by Joe concerning electic bikes. It's kind of tough to read all the posts, but I spent about half an hour today, reading through them.

There are a minority who believe that ebikes are not bikes at all, and are something like motor bikes.

I commute 42 km's a day. It is possible for me to do the entire trip many days, but I'm limited in the winter by the fact that ice and snow make it dangerous to bike. As an experiment this winter I bought an electric hub for an adult tricycle.

I invite you to visit my journal on crazyguyonabike (http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/ebike) and let me know your opinion.

If that's your bike, you'd better go outside and check to see if it's still there. Someone may have lifted it up and off of the pole.
Is the electric hub on the front wheel? If so, don't you lose a lot of traction since most of the weight is on the back wheels?

Thats just as good as locking your bike like this:

http://www.myspacecomedy.com/images/funny/bike-lock.jpg

Do you really think you could lift that bike over the pole? It looks like it wieghs 300lbs.

Although the bike doesn't wiegh 300 lbs, it would take a couple of hefty guys to lift it that high. Thanks for your concern, but I took the picture after I'd removed the lock on the rear wheel and frame. That's quite enough security for dropping in at the liquor store in a 'tony' part of Toronto.

As far as the front wheels go, It's a brushless hub so I have to pedal to get it going. I have spun the wheels in snow and on ice, and it tends to slide to the right. On dry pavement, the traction has been great. Strangely it is the rear wheels that seem to spin most often. I've just changed the front crank for a much larger one so when I'm pedalling with some assistance I can go about 25-30 kmp/hr. I have a 42 km commute each day, so I really need to keep a fairly high top speed. It's taking me about an hour each way currently, that's averaging about 20 km/hr. Pretty good considering getting there is mostly up hill. Check this (http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/ebike) out!

Thats just as good as locking your bike like this:

http://www.myspacecomedy.com/images/funny/bike-lock.jpg

That has got to be the funnest (sp?) lock up photo I've seen ever. Yah sometimes the posts arn't there or they're way over sized if you find it and not U-lock friendly. A mini grocery shopping center I saw recently have some really suck lock ups. It's just a concreate block with a small eyelet hole in it. I laughed when I saw that. Hell I'mnot even sure if the Kyrptonite NYC chains will go through the hole. Time sliek that a chain is hugely favored but said chain is 5.5lbs and costs $160-$170 CDN >_<;



Zero_Engima

What was your reason for going with a delta over a tadpole?

Does pedaling move one or both of the back wheels?

Hi all!
I read with interest the thread started by Joe concerning electic bikes. It's kind of tough to read all the posts, but I spent about half an hour today, reading through them.

There are a minority who believe that ebikes are not bikes at all, and are something like motor bikes.

I commute 42 km's a day. It is possible for me to do the entire trip many days, but I'm limited in the winter by the fact that ice and snow make it dangerous to bike. As an experiment this winter I bought an electric hub for an adult tricycle.

I invite you to visit my journal on crazyguyonabike (http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/ebike) and let me know your opinion.

You ride 42km's? That's about my distance from north of the city to downtown. Where abouts are you in T.O? How much did the bike cost? What size are the tires? What is the bikes range (pedal assist that is)? Can you turn the assist off and ride full manual? Are you allowed on bike path/trails with that? Do you ride that on city roads or on the sidewalk?

Cool looking bike.


Zero_Enigma

I've ordered an Estelle E bike (http://www.estelle.de/fahrradmodelle.asp) from Worksman (http://worksman.com/) for my father (great price (http://worksmancycles.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/page18.html)). When it comes in I'll post pics and give a run down on how it compaires to my Giant Lite (http://www.electricvehiclesnw.com/main/lite.htm).
The Estelle has a front hub motor like the trike in Stokell's post and the Giant's drive is inline with the chain.

http://www.croydon-lcc.org.uk/images/twist.jpg
Giant Lite/Twist

http://worksmancycles.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/media/estelle.jpg
Estelle City

--A

Nice Workman bike tho I'm wheriy (sp?) or locking that up outside when at the mall for a movie or shopping/groceries. For a quick hot chocolate or quick stop to a convience store sure but what gets m is how it looks liek he battery can be taken easily.

Currie seems to have some bikes with a concealed battery. While the concealed battery makes the bike look stock and not out of the ordinary I'm curious as to if the user has access to the battery should they which to upgrade or replace a dead battery.

http://electric-bikes.com/bikes/diagnose.html I found this site handy for the bike info.

http://www.currietech.com/html/izipCatalog/CTI_izipMainProd.html Currie Izip Trekking has a concealed battery. Looks good too tho the curve in the frame does kill some useable accessory space. Not bad 48lbs which you could carry a short distance or onto the subway.




Zero_Enigma

What was your reason for going with a delta over a tadpole?
Hieght and price. This is a city commuter bike for the winter. Visibility is critical as I have to bike into the suburbs where everyone is speeding, inattentive or stoned. Sometimes all three!

Does pedaling move one or both of the back wheels?
Just one, I think it is the one on the right side, the other one just coasts. Now I also have front wheel drive!

You ride 42km's? That's about my distance from north of the city to downtown. Where abouts are you in T.O? How much did the bike cost? What size are the tires? What is the bikes range (pedal assist that is)? Can you turn the assist off and ride full manual? Are you allowed on bike path/trails with that? Do you ride that on city roads or on the sidewalk?

Cool looking bike.


Zero_Enigma

I live in the Beach and ride up to Markham. It's difficult to cost out the bike because I assembled it from parts. Check out my journal (http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/ebike). An adult trike costs around $550. Add the custom paint and the brushless hub kit and the cost goes up to around $1200.

The tires are 24 inch. Originals on the back and a really good bulletproof Schwalbe on the front.

As far as assistance goes, it is mostly good on hills. There are lots of those on the way there and back. The electrical assistance is my choice. Once I get moving about 5 kms the hub will assist me if I have it turned on. I have a deadman's switch on the left side of the handlebar.

The Ontario government has legalized these bikes for a test period of three years. You have to be over 16 and wear a helmet. No license or insurance required. You can ride on roads, bike lanes and multi-use paths. In Toronto riding a bike on a sidewalk is good for a $110 fine. Strangely trikes are exempt from the Municipal Code.

The Ontario government has legalized these bikes for a test period of three years. You have to be over 16 and wear a helmet. No license or insurance required. You can ride on roads, bike lanes and multi-use paths. In Toronto riding a bike on a sidewalk is good for a $110 fine. Strangely trikes are exempt from the Municipal Code.

I know about legalized status. I saw that around Oct (I think) 2006. Up north of the city the sidewalk thing is not enforced. At least I've not seen anyone get pulled over on the sidewalk yet. Downtown I can understand if a cop pulls you over as it'll be more crowded down there. The cops up here don't mind. I've seen many adults on bikes when I've pulled up right beside the cop cruiser on my bike on the road. They just look at me and I wave back and they look at the other bikes on the sidewalk waiting for the lights to change and looking at the adults on bike crossing the road and back onto the sidewalk again. Maybe they might enforce it more when it's bike week to boost up some revenue.


Zero_Enigma

Just one, I think it is the one on the right side, the other one just coasts. Now I also have front wheel drive!
I think it would be cool to put the motor on the wheel that isn't pedaled

I think it would be cool to put the motor on the wheel that isn't pedaled
There are 3 ways to mount a motor. Like the Estelle and the trike above on the (non drive) front wheel. This approach is the most common.
Inline to the chain as is found on the Giant Lite/Twist and on a Xtracycle kit I know (least common), or in the rear (drive wheel) . Heinzmann (http://www.kinetics-online.co.uk/html/heinzmann_kits.shtml) makes retro fit kits that replace either the rear or front hub with a motorized hub.

There are 3 ways to mount a motor. Like the Estelle and the trike above on the (non drive) front wheel. This approach is the most common.
Inline to the chain as is found on the Giant Lite/Twist and on a Xtracycle kit I know (least common), or in the rear (drive wheel) . Heinzmann (http://www.kinetics-online.co.uk/html/heinzmann_kits.shtml) makes retro fit kits that replace either the rear or front hub with a motorized hub.
I forgot that a different kit would be needed.

Mongoose Update:

Commuting for 12 weeks now with the Mongoose electric bike from Walmart.
Averaging about 4 days per week of use so far, so about 50 trips.
Usually use full power going in to work with walking-effort pedalling.
Coming home probably half the time I just use pedal power, half the time full electric +more vigorous pedalling.
Probably this is draining the battery about 30% on a daily basis.
I did a timed run with no pedalling today to see how the battery was holding up.

Going in - 3.47mi, 12:58 minutes, avg speed 16.0 mph
Coming home - 3.88, 17:05, avg speed 13.6 mph, but about 2 minutes total wasted at stop lights and train crossing.
These figures are comparable to initial testing runs, so no definite change in performance at about 50 charges (from approx 30% drained level).

Mongoose Update:

Commuting for 12 weeks now with the Mongoose electric bike from Walmart.
Averaging about 4 days per week of use so far, so about 50 trips.
Usually use full power going in to work with walking-effort pedalling.
Coming home probably half the time I just use pedal power, half the time full electric +more vigorous pedalling.
Probably this is draining the battery about 30% on a daily basis.
I did a timed run with no pedalling today to see how the battery was holding up.

Going in - 3.47mi, 12:58 minutes, avg speed 16.0 mph
Coming home - 3.88, 17:05, avg speed 13.6 mph, but about 2 minutes total wasted at stop lights and train crossing.
These figures are comparable to initial testing runs, so no definite change in performance at about 50 charges (from approx 30% drained level).

You'll be doing yourself a favor if you charge the battery at work. Battery sulfation isn't our friend.

This is mine:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b269/Chris_Lanctot/E-Bike/f309.jpg

Yes... I do commute with it as well as play with it.

You'll be doing yourself a favor if you charge the battery at work. Battery sulfation isn't our friend.

"Sulfation of batteries starts when specific gravity falls below 1.225 or voltage measures less than 12.4 (12v Battery) or 6.2 (6 volt battery). Sulfation hardens the battery plates reducing and eventually destroying the ability of the battery to generate Volts and Amps."

Or more simply put, lead acid batteries like to be kept fully charged. If you run them down, you should charge them immediately, or they will gradually become less efficient and die.

Not every municipality recycles batteries so they may end up in a land fill and eventually leach into the ground water.

NiCad is better and will take more charges. NiMH is better for the environment.

Hi all!
I commute 42 km's a day. It is possible for me to do the entire trip many days, but I'm limited in the winter by the fact that ice and snow make it dangerous to bike. As an experiment this winter I bought an electric hub for an adult tricycle.
.
How long have you been doing this? I'm interested in the longevity of the motors as well as their resistance/vulnerability to excessive wear and tear when riding in slop.

This is (was) my first winter with an ebike. Toronto winters are usually quite mild, but this one was terrible once it got started around the middle of January.

I have a brushless hub. The idea being that if there are no brushes and no moving parts it will last longer. So far I have had no problems (touch wood) and there does not appear to be any drop in efficiencies as some people have suggested.

I originally just purchased a gel cell, but they do scare me about the sulfation because of the distance I travel. I charge at work, but even still the battery is quite often flashing red by the time I get home.

Next I bought some NiCad cells and a better charger. They seem better for winter but get really hot when under load for extended periods. The gel cell might be better in summer. I'll let you know because I'm just changing the hub onto my summer commuting bike.

Is that a velomobile I see in your avatar?

http://worksmancycles.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/media/estelle.jpg
Estelle City

--A
That looks like a (rebranded?) Biria.

That looks like a (rebranded?) Biria.
I believe it is. I think (haven't asked) that Hinzmann rebrands Birias, other than the Hinzmann e-kit, the bike frame is identical to a Biria.
And HERE (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=272110) is a close look at the one I got for my father.

Dang it! All this yak about electric bikes is going to turn me into a wuss. The temptation to put a Bionx P350 on my velomobile is getting harder to fight. I won't do it until fall at least, but fighting headwinds with electric boost has got to be more fun.

"Sulfation of batteries starts when specific gravity falls below 1.225 or voltage measures less than 12.4 (12v Battery) or 6.2 (6 volt battery). Sulfation hardens the battery plates reducing and eventually destroying the ability of the battery to generate Volts and Amps."

Or more simply put, lead acid batteries like to be kept fully charged. If you run them down, you should charge them immediately, or they will gradually become less efficient and die.

Not every municipality recycles batteries so they may end up in a land fill and eventually leach into the ground water.

NiCad is better and will take more charges. NiMH is better for the environment.

The mongoose runs on SLA (AGM) batteries unless they redesigned the bike recently hence my post. However, the mongoose with its geared motor would be a good fit for NiMH if Hoofer gets creative and can cram 30 "D" cells into his current battery case. Unlike the brushless hub motors we are using the Mongoose's electric motor spends more time at its peak efficiency and draws fewer amps thus less overheating the battery.

Dang it! All this yak about electric bikes is going to turn me into a wuss. The temptation to put a Bionx P350 on my velomobile is getting harder to fight. I won't do it until fall at least, but fighting headwinds with electric boost has got to be more fun.

If I were given a velomobile tommorrow I would have an electric assist installed for the Monday morning commute. Aerodynamics are great, but I'm not going to haul 300lbs. of rider and velo up even our modest hills here in Mississippi w/o an assist. You won't regret it.

If I were given a velomobile tommorrow I would have an electric assist installed for the Monday morning commute. Aerodynamics are great, but I'm not going to haul 300lbs. of rider and velo up even our modest hills here in Mississippi w/o an assist. You won't regret it.
That is what I'm afraid of.

Actually, my velomobile only gives a modest aero advantage. What's special about it though is that I can convert back to a bare tadpole in a few minutes and the velo kit adds less than 20lbs to my trike so I can still climb hills.

My velomobile will turn me into a wuss. I've ridden in all kinds of crazy weather for years, but I tell you, it's so much easier to stay dry and warm when you're fully enclosed. Being dry and warm is nice.

That is what I'm afraid of. . .

What exactly are you afraid of? The weight or losing your ability to climb? Most of my transportational riding is done on the ebike, but I can still out climb most of the local club riders on the weekends--on a low-racer even! So I'm kinda confused by your post.

Not to dwell on the technicalities, but this thread is actually an "Electric Trike Update."

I know about legalized status. I saw that around Oct (I think) 2006. Up north of the city the sidewalk thing is not enforced. At least I've not seen anyone get pulled over on the sidewalk yet. Downtown I can understand if a cop pulls you over as it'll be more crowded down there. The cops up here don't mind. I've seen many adults on bikes when I've pulled up right beside the cop cruiser on my bike on the road. They just look at me and I wave back and they look at the other bikes on the sidewalk waiting for the lights to change and looking at the adults on bike crossing the road and back onto the sidewalk again. Maybe they might enforce it more when it's bike week to boost up some revenue.


Zero_Enigma

The cops won't bother a cyclist on the sidewalk within the city either. They've told me so. Since the infraction is merely a by-law, they refuse to enforce it, unless there's an actual injury. They wave a 'superiority' complex about these things and leave it to by-law enforcement officers (Yeah, like you'll ever see one of those guys) to handle. One cop I know said if they see a cyclist on the sidewalk they wait until he rides across the cross-walk---then he is in their jurisdiction---and that's when they'll ticket him/her if they even bother with the cyclist at all.

Why not use studded tires? I would ride my Nokian Extremes on a hockey rink... it is safer than walking or driving a car on ice.

No offense- but trikes are not bikes either ;)

Hi all!
I read with interest the thread started by Joe concerning electic bikes. It's kind of tough to read all the posts, but I spent about half an hour today, reading through them.

There are a minority who believe that ebikes are not bikes at all, and are something like motor bikes.

I commute 42 km's a day. It is possible for me to do the entire trip many days, but I'm limited in the winter by the fact that ice and snow make it dangerous to bike. As an experiment this winter I bought an electric hub for an adult tricycle.

I invite you to visit my journal on crazyguyonabike (http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/ebike) and let me know your opinion.

I'd be curious to know where and how you got your trike set up. Did you do it yourself or have it done at a shop? Where did you get that parts? I have a trike as well and the electric assist would be a big help on some of the hills I have to deal with. Last year, I put my back out going up the hill from Davenport to St. Clair and was on my back for five days.

Can you pm me with the details?

That has got to be the funnest (sp?) lock up photo I've seen ever. Yah sometimes the posts arn't there or they're way over sized if you find it and not U-lock friendly. A mini grocery shopping center I saw recently have some really suck lock ups. It's just a concreate block with a small eyelet hole in it. I laughed when I saw that. Hell I'mnot even sure if the Kyrptonite NYC chains will go through the hole. Time sliek that a chain is hugely favored but said chain is 5.5lbs and costs $160-$170 CDN >_<;
Zero_Engima
The concrete block with eyelet is the most common lock up I have seen in this area. And I greatly doubt a NYC chain would fit. My combo cable lock doesn't fit and they are worthless for U-locks. I usually look for something better but for quick runs into the grocery the covered lockup block beside the front door is worth using.
Craig

Yes the Mongoose uses a SLA type battery.
I agree, charging it at work would be better, but it would be a bit of a chore, which I am trying to avoid.
Also, I'm thinking that for the nine or so hours sitting at work, it is maybe 25% depleted. From what I understand, it is much more damaging to discharge the battery deeply.
Currie sells replacement batteries for $80 for a pair, which does seem a bit stiff.
I haven't really looked into it yet, but I have thought that when the current batteries don't hold an adequate charge, there would be an opportunity to try something other than a straight stock replacement.

Yes the Mongoose uses a SLA type battery.
I agree, charging it at work would be better, but it would be a bit of a chore, which I am trying to avoid.
Also, I'm thinking that for the nine or so hours sitting at work, it is maybe 25% depleted. From what I understand, it is much more damaging to discharge the battery deeply.
Currie sells replacement batteries for $80 for a pair, which does seem a bit stiff.
I haven't really looked into it yet, but I have thought that when the current batteries don't hold an adequate charge, there would be an opportunity to try something other than a straight stock replacement.

The unfortunate thing about SLA is the weight. It is not so much the weight on the bicycle, but rather the cost to ship the things. Originating in China, I bet the vast majority of the cost of the SLA battery is shipping. With your low voltage Mongoose, going to NiMH is easy and cheap. However, my 72V setup might be problematic and labor intensive to convert to NiMH--though there are many ebike users running 72V NiMH. I'm holding out for newer technologies like LiFEPO4. I'm not worried about having to replace my battery anytime soon because I carry my chargers in the backpack when I know the bike is going to sit somewhere for a couple of hours.