Living Car Free - The future of urban sprawl?

No carfree resourses whatsoever, no cycling facilities or accomodations. Detroit and its metro area have, at best, very poor public transit. The airport is about a 35-45 minute drive from Highland Park. The closest (decent) hotel accomodations would be in downtown Detroit. Best seasons to visit would be late spring and fall. It's hot and humid in the summers and very cold in the winters.

I say this as someone who will most likely never own a firearm: I would not go exploring that area without carrying or being accompanied by someone who does unless my companion or I knew the area very, very well. I would never go alone. My late father, who was definitely a "Detroit tough", would have never gone alone. You would do well to hook up with some people who regularly explore the abandonded areas of the city.

One very wonderful attraction not to miss if you're ever in Detroit are the Diego Rivera murals at the Detroit Institute of Arts. There is also a Greektown with excellent food, as well as Under the Eagle (Polish food) in Hamtramck, which is the other small city completely surrounded by Detroit proper.Interesting. One of my adventure trips was to Diego Rivera's hometown in Mexico. The Detroit mural looks fascinating.
Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Rivera_detroit_industry_south.jpg)

I like art deco architecture. There is or was a lot of it in Detroit.

Well, just ride in on a shiny bike, wearing a nice spandex outfit and waving a handful of credit cards. The locals will roll out the red carpet for you! ;)
Naw, someone in full kit would probably make people think aliens just landed. How 'bout a big 10-gallon hat printed with "HOWDY I'M FROM TEXAS"?

About urban abandonment- Many manufacturers left the core cities for a reason little touched on in this thread- soil and water pollution resulting in brownfields. It was cheaper and easier to move the factory to the suburbs or overseas. Would it be safe to farm in these areas?
That's an excellent point. Actually though, I was thinking about gardening or farming in residential areas. There are thousands of abandoned houses in some parts of Detroit. The city has left a lot of these structures standing, but in many cases neighbors have burned them down so that criminals and junkies can't use them.

Don't get the wrong idea about Detroit and Highland Park from this thread. Amid pockets of devastation, there are many vibrant communities in both cities, and people lead good lives there. The violent crime rate is much lower now, probably no higher than in many cities that are considered to be "safe." Detroit remains a cultural center, especially in music from classical to hip-hop to techno. The city proper has shrunk from 4th largest in the US to not even in the top 10, but the metro area is home to more than 4 million souls, IIRC.

Some areas in and around Detroit are very attractive to carfree people. In fact, I was thinking that Highland Park is ideally located to be be a totally carfree city. Wouldn't it be funny if it went from being the first city of automobile manufacturing, and someday became the first carfree city in North America?

Wouldn't it be funny if it went from being the first city of automobile manufacturing, and someday became the first carfree city in North America?
It would certainly be consistent with the Law of Maximum Irony.

I found a pro-Detroit forum with several current discussions about the transit situation there.

Link (http://detroityes.com/index.html)

What about if there was no water?
That would make exploring the ruins of LA more of a challenge!

Here's a 2005 article about being carfree in Detroit.

http://www.thedetroiter.com/jan05/biking.html

Her helmet is on backwards.

Her helmet is on backwards.


ohh man thats bad ! LOL :eek:

What about if there was no water?

Los Angeles is and will continue to be a stopping point for the new arrivals from other counties or even the ones from back east. Eventually they do move somewhere else. As for water, we have a fancy means of aquaduct systems as well as underground wells that have watered us and probably continue to do so for the forseeable future. I have seen a new crop of starry eyed newcomers either trying to break into show business or providing cheap services for the rich celebreties for as long as I could remember. That would not stop anytime soon.

Her helmet is on backwards.
"Your helmet's on backwards!" - the only shout from a motorist that ever really got my goat ...

Interesting. One of my adventure trips was to Diego Rivera's hometown in Mexico. The Detroit mural looks fascinating.
Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Rivera_detroit_industry_south.jpg)

I like art deco architecture. There is or was a lot of it in Detroit.
There still are a lot of great buildings in the D and in Highland Park. Detroit was a boom town from the 1870s (lumber, stoves and wagons) through the 1950s (cars, weapons, the arsenal of democracy) and all those rich people left nice buildings. A lot of it is dark brick Richardsonian Romanesque style and Prairie style, and beautiful Art Deco skyscrapers downtown and in the New Center area. Yamaguchi (if I'm remembering his name right) practiced architecture in Detroit before he built the World Trade Center and left a couple graceful white buildings. Albert Kahn was another famous architect who worked in Detroit. Of course Chicago is probably a better destination if you're into architecture.

Thanks for finding those Detroit links, Platy. I've been enjoying them. Funny talking about the Motor City on a carfree forum, but there is no better illustration of both the good and the bad wrought by the automobile culture,

For those who are interested, photos of the ruins of the Ford Model T plant in HP (http://www.detroityes.com/industry/02modelt.htm).








The Factory That Changed the World

Granddaddy of them all and possibly the most famous factory in history, the remains of Henry Ford's Model T Automobile Plant in the Detroit enclave of Highland Park is still in partial use as a warehouse. Home of the moving assembly line and designed by industrial architect giant, Albert Kahn, the world beat a path to its door fueling the second industrial revolution and catapulting Detroit to wealth and fame.
Built in 1909, it once produced 1000 "Tin Lizzies" a day. In its last days of vehicle manufacturing, it produced Ford tractors. It ceased production in the 1970's. It has suffered greatly from neglect and faces an uncertain future.

Los Angeles is and will continue to be a stopping point for the new arrivals from other counties or even the ones from back east. Eventually they do move somewhere else. As for water, we have a fancy means of aquaduct systems as well as underground wells that have watered us and probably continue to do so for the forseeable future. I have seen a new crop of starry eyed newcomers either trying to break into show business or providing cheap services for the rich celebreties for as long as I could remember. That would not stop anytime soon.


You're sleepwalking.
California Water Wars http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Water_Wars
The End of Lake Powell http://www.livingrivers.org/campaigns/drought/summary.cfm

It will be the lack of water AND the end of cheap oil that will make Los Angeles unsustainable.

Funny talking about the Motor City on a carfree forum, but there is no better illustration of both the good and the bad wrought by the automobile culture.
Here's a wild thought. Ailing auto related companies re-invent themselves as venture capital and research operations. The old abandoned facilities become science & engineering labs, business incubators and classrooms. Keep the surrounding neighborhoods bikeable, put in a few streetcars or whatever else the motor experts can come up with, and grow the successor to Silicon Valley.

Couldn't happen. Or could it?

Here's a wild thought. Ailing auto related companies re-invent themselves as venture capital and research operations. The old abandoned facilities become science & engineering labs, business incubators and classrooms. Keep the surrounding neighborhoods bikeable, put in a few streetcars or whatever else the motor experts can come up with, and grow the successor to Silicon Valley.

Couldn't happen. Or could it?
We have a dynamic governor who would like to make things like this happen. I'm afraid the auto companies are too hidebound to diversify, even if it would save their corporate lives. But 10 or 20 years from now, the death of the auto companies will probably seem like the best thing that ever happened to Detroit and Michigan. You know, get some clean businesses in here, revive tourism, education and agriculture, make it work for a new millennium and all that. It's just that getting from here to there is so damn difficult. And it really doesn't look like Ford, GM or Chrysler are going to be a part of positive change in Michigan. Or anywhere.

Lots of arsenic was applied over the years to cotton fields and orchards.

There is the possibility of phytoremediation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytoremediation) but phytoremediation might just be too difficult to do economically on a large scale.

For those who are interested, photos of the ruins of the Ford Model T plant in HP (http://www.detroityes.com/industry/02modelt.htm).
Nice. My great-great grandfather was a carpenter who did a lot of work in both the Highland Park Model T Plant and the Piquette Ave. Plant. His son and grandson went on to work in Ford plants. My brother's broke the chain, though. :D

Here's a wild thought. Ailing auto related companies re-invent themselves as venture capital and research operations. The old abandoned facilities become science & engineering labs, business incubators and classrooms. Keep the surrounding neighborhoods bikeable, put in a few streetcars or whatever else the motor experts can come up with, and grow the successor to Silicon Valley.

Couldn't happen. Or could it?

This is already being done in Rockford. As a former major manufacturer of machine tools and automated transfer lines for the Detroit car manufacturers this area is also economically depressed. The push now is on micro manufacturing research. Auto manufacturing made the American middle class. The per capita income in the last decade has dropped 15% in Winnebago county and more in Rockford. That is why I ride a bicycle now. For utility as well as enjoyment. Before it was for commuting in nice weather to the job in the machine tool industries. Although being car free is a choice it is also a neccessity for some people now where it wasn't before.