Living Car Free - The future of urban sprawl?

http://www.28dayslater.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=8752

Gulp.

We are starting to see older burbs decay just like the cities did 30 years ago. Unfortunately, the population continues to push further from the cities searching for newer and safer subdivisions. White flight continues today but it's not from city to burb but from burb to exhurb!

Interesting series of articles and pretty scary too. I have been aware of "inner" city decay for years as well as some of the attempts to counter act it in the smaller and medium sized towns. But to see something the size of Highland Park basically abandoned....:eek: I wonder how many more areas there are like that around?

Aaron:)

Don't you mean urban DECAY?

A great place to start a car free zone :)

What I find interesting is this is what the sparwl will look like when if they car ever comes crashing down. Funny how we are shown this with the Model T in full view.

12 monkeys

Here's a 2005 article about being carfree in Detroit.

http://www.thedetroiter.com/jan05/biking.html

My own creation:

http://www.velocide.com/user_uploads/oil_master_slave_small.jpg

My own creation:

http://www.velocide.com/user_uploads/oil_master_slave_small.jpg

I'd love to make a T-shirt from that, are you willing to part with a hi-res version?

I'd love to make a T-shirt from that, are you willing to part with a hi-res version?

This is the highest I've got: 640x480..

http://www.velocide.com/user_uploads/oil_master_slave.jpg

This is the highest I've got: 640x480..


I can work with that. Want a credit line? (Disclaimer: it may takes me months to get around to makign a t-shirt from this, but I do need to make more company shirts anyway.)

Hmmm. Lots to digest here. The pictures make me very sad, like one of those haunting dreams....

Highland Park, Michigan is my hometown. My parents moved there when I was 10 (1965) because they wanted their children to grow up in a racially integrated city. The elementary and middle school I attended is (WAS?) only two or three blocks from the municipal buildings depicted in the photos. Our beautiful home was a couple blocks further away, on McLean St. by Bush St.

By the time I finished high school, Highland Park had experienced two major race riots and I was one of the few remaining white people in the city. I guess that's what happened to my parent's dream. Well, so it goes with dreams.

Highland Park was known as the City of Trees and the City of Schools. As mentioned in the report, Henry Ford designed the city as a social experiment in support of his dreams of a personal empire. It was a wonderful vision, but it self-destructed due to the automobile and racism--ironically, two of the keystones in Ford's dream plan. The automobile made the suburbs possible, and racism impelled people to abandon the city.

Like most modern dreams, Ford's was both daring and totally unsustainable. And so it goes....

A great place to start a car free zone :)
You'd think so, but the entrenched corruption in city and county politics there would bring any plans to a screeching halt unless you have the money to buy them off, even if you are interested in a place that has been virtually or literally abandoned. It's been that way ever since Prohibition. One of the major reasons why my brother and I left... :(

I think what made these images particularly disturbing is the apparent suddenness of the abandonment: Uniforms left intact in lockers, etc. I can easily imagine the same thing happening in suburbs and small cities all over the country if the oil were to dry up before we're ready...

BTW, in most cities I've been to recently, the central areas are the places that are booming, because that's where the people with money want to live. Those vast expanses of tract housing are the places that either suck now or soon will suck. It's like that HG Wells novel; the charmed elite in the center live lives of pleasure and luxury while the Morlocks out in the 'burbs toil away in crappy townhouses, simmering in resentment while they sit in line at the freeway on-ramp every morning at 7:00 AM, awaiting their chance to begin their 60-minute commute...

I think what made these images particularly disturbing is the apparent suddenness of the abandonment: Uniforms left intact in lockers, etc. I can easily imagine the same thing happening in suburbs and small cities all over the country if the oil were to dry up before we're ready...

BTW, in most cities I've been to recently, the central areas are the places that are booming, because that's where the people with money want to live. Those vast expanses of tract housing are the places that either suck now or soon will suck. It's like that HG Wells novel; the charmed elite in the center live lives of pleasure and luxury while the Morlocks out in the 'burbs toil away in crappy townhouses, simmering in resentment while they sit in line at the freeway on-ramp every morning at 7:00 AM, awaiting their chance to begin their 60-minute commute...
The decline of Highland Park was actually very gradual. White flight to the suburbs, which began in the 1960s, caused a surplus of housing. This led to a decline in real estate values which led to decreased property tax revenues. The auto companies pulled out of Highland Park--the Ford plant closed in the 1960s and Chrysler relocated it's world headquarters in the 1980s, IIRC--and the city lost both jobs and big revenue sources. Powerful police, fire, teacher and city worker unions negotiated big pension plans. When the population and number of workers shrank, the city was stuck trying to pay those big pension and health care costs.

There was corruption also, as donnamb mentioned, but I'm not sure that played a large role in what happened to Highland Park, compared to economic and social forces.

A skyrocketing crime rate--highest in the nation in some years in the 1970s--is what scared me away. Nobody knows what causes crime, but it's highly correlated with poverty, bad education, unemployment, etc.

At any rate, things ot so bad that the city basically shut down a few years ago. The state came in and started running things--schools, government, almost everything.

I did hear a little good news out of Highland Park recently. A new parts plant has opened, The first new housing construction in decades was initiated and special tax policies are working to some extent.

The decline of Highland Park was actually very gradual. White flight to the suburbs, which began in the 1960s, caused a surplus of housing. This led to a decline in real estate values which led to decreased property tax revenues. The auto companies pulled out of Highland Park--the Ford plant closed in the 1960s and Chrysler relocated it's world headquarters in the 1980s, IIRC--and the city lost both jobs and big revenue sources. Powerful police, fire, teacher and city worker unions negotiated big pension plans. When the population and number of workers shrank, the city was stuck trying to pay those big pension and health care costs.

There was corruption also, as donnamb mentioned, but I'm not sure that played a large role in what happened to Highland Park, compared to economic and social forces.

A skyrocketing crime rate--highest in the nation in some years in the 1970s--is what scared me away. Nobody knows what causes crime, but it's highly correlated with poverty, bad education, unemployment, etc.

At any rate, things ot so bad that the city basically shut down a few years ago. The state came in and started running things--schools, government, almost everything.

I did hear a little good news out of Highland Park recently. A new parts plant has opened, The first new housing construction in decades was initiated and special tax policies are working to some extent.

Interesting article in USAToday (http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/retirement/2007-02-20-pensions-cover_x.htm) about this very subject...Also interesting is the current Highland Park (http://cityofhighlandpark.us/) website ;) What will the Future hold???

Aaron:)

I thought aout the plight of Highland Park overnight, and decided that it has nothing to do with urban sprawl. It has to do with the main employer in town leaving. A fair comparison can be made between highland Park and countless small farming-based towns in the Plains. These places deteriorated because the main source of employment disappeared. Corporate farming made the family farm unappealing as a job, and the people went elsewhere. Ford and Chrysler pulled up their roots in Highland Park, and the town went bankrupt.

The race riots contributed to white flight to be sure, but if the jobs had been there, the city would look MUCH different than it does today.

I thought aout the plight of Highland Park overnight, and decided that it has nothing to do with urban sprawl. It has to do with the main employer in town leaving. A fair comparison can be made between highland Park and countless small farming-based towns in the Plains. These places deteriorated because the main source of employment disappeared. Corporate farming made the family farm unappealing as a job, and the people went elsewhere. Ford and Chrysler pulled up their roots in Highland Park, and the town went bankrupt.

The race riots contributed to white flight to be sure, but if the jobs had been there, the city would look MUCH different than it does today.

I agree with your take on the employer leaving town, but it is also going to occur when you don't have a core business district to depend on, such as happens in sprawl. When fuel prices get to the point that bigger businesses that are out in the middle of nowhere in these made up areas can no longer afford to get their stock to their stores they are going to abandoned the area and the people who live there won't be far behind. A couple of other towns come to mind. Elmira, NY was once home to the Great Atlantic and Pacific Tea Company (forerunner of Walmart?;) ) Elmira was also home to a lot of heavy industry that has long since moved away, it has areas that approach the desolation of Highland Park, but without the crime rate. I suspect the suddenness of the decline of HP played a major role in the problems. Another area that has been hard hit is the area north of Pittsburgh known as the rust belt. In fact I suspect you will find partially abandoned towns all over the country caused by the loss of manufacturing jobs and the relocation of manufacturing facilities offshore. Look at some of the old ghost towns in the west, as the mines closed down the towns were abandoned, just like Highland Park. Some areas have other economic forces driving their economies, for example Fayetteville, NC has lost over 10,000 manufacturing jobs in the past 25 years but those have be made up for in many ways by the influx of troops into Fort Bragg. I haven't bothered to track the income levels to see whether they have risen or fallen. I think we forget that at least in America cities and towns are dynamic and will shrink and grow based on many factors. In Europe most of the large cities have been established for over 1000 years, but they don't have the sheer space we have in the US. (sorry about the ramble, as I ride so do I write:p )

Aaron:)

I thought aout the plight of Highland Park overnight, and decided that it has nothing to do with urban sprawl. It has to do with the main employer in town leaving. .........

Ok, good point. lol

I agree with your take on the employer leaving town, but it is also going to occur when you don't have a core business district to depend on, such as happens in sprawl.

Good point, wahoo. Highland Park had nothing to fall back on. Ford/Chrysler was the only game in town. A core business district with a diversified corporate base would be MUCH less vulnerable.

I think the crime came after housing prices fell off steeply. Suddenly, the lower class could afford to be there, and my guess is that many homeowners moved away and rented their old places, becoming absentee landlords. Some places were totally abandoned, lending themselves to squatters. This sudden influx of the lower class likely contributed to the insane crime rate. The rest of the tax base then moved out and you have what's there today: dilapidated, abandoned homes and brownfields.

If anything, this is a sad case of over-dependence on a single employer/industry. For reasons Wahoo pointed out, the burbs are much more prone to this than a true business district.

Another thought wandered across my mind:eek: :p The small town we are establishing ourselves in has all the good things to look for in a small town for car free living. Including a fairly diversified manufacturing base. Unfortunately Walmart is one of the largest employers (go figure). However we do have several other non related industries that employ over 5,000 people and some of those have been there since the 1950's and have managed to survive. We do have rail service...but they don't stop anymore. And we on a major N/S interstate. All keys to the future in my book. As well as nearby agricultural communities.

Aaron:)

I thought aout the plight of Highland Park overnight, and decided that it has nothing to do with urban sprawl. It has to do with the main employer in town leaving. A fair comparison can be made between highland Park and countless small farming-based towns in the Plains. These places deteriorated because the main source of employment disappeared. Corporate farming made the family farm unappealing as a job, and the people went elsewhere. Ford and Chrysler pulled up their roots in Highland Park, and the town went bankrupt.

The race riots contributed to white flight to be sure, but if the jobs had been there, the city would look MUCH different than it does today.
Of course. Ford and Chrysler leaving were final blows for HP. But why did Ford and Chrysler leave? The answer to that question has a lot to do with urban sprawl.

Ford had the first major auto assembly plant in HP. It's where $5 a day and all that stuff happened. Bt the 1950s, the plant was seriously outdated and Ford needed to close it. Instead of rebuilding in HP, they chose to relocate in outlying areas. One reason was that much of the work force had already moved to the suburbs, and many workers were commuting into the city for work.

The case is even clearer for Chrysler. Their facility in HP was their world headquarters, employing executives and white collar workers. These people were already comfy in their suburbs, driving their Chrysler Newports down the Chrysler Freeway to work in the inner city--a less than comfy experience for many of them. So Chrylser moved their HQ to the burbs mainly, AFAIK, to please their high echelon workers.

So sprawl, to some extent, caused the jobs to leave, and caused the decline of an inner city area. Of course these are interacting factors, and it's oversimplifying to say that there was one root cause. But I think it's quite clear that cars helped give rise to Highland Park, and cars have very nearly killed it.

Another thing that some of the younger people may not remember is that crime rates in the 1970s and 1980s were much higher than they are now. Fear of crime was another factor in people leaving the city. Of course this was all balled up with racism and classism, and people were not always thinking clearly about the crime problem.

I once had an urban economics class. The phrase used by the instructor.
Use, abuse, abandon. Seems all too appropriate. The energy future, the exurbs will suffer the same fate. All in the name of exodus; sort an urban adaptaion of go west young man. We have no idea what it is we are escaping from. I think it is because we just do not have to come to terms with living with one another.

I was had a urban economics class. The phrase used by the instructor.
Use, abuse, abandon. Seems all too appropriate. The energy future, the exurbs will suffer the same fate. All in the name of exodus; sort an urban adaptaion of go west young man. We have no idea what it is we are escaping from. I think it is because we just do not have to come to terms with living with one another.
So is there a flaw in the American psyche that we can't live together? Other countries have this same behavior pattern? "Why can't we all just get along?" When Rodney King said that, it immediately became an iconic plaint in America. That makes me think that it resonates with a flaw that we see in ourselves.

I think it is largely American--- most other countries don't have the kind of space between people, the lower population densities, etc... Americans hate each other.


So is there a flaw in the American psyche that we can't live together? Other countries have this same behavior pattern? "Why can't we all just get along?" When Rodney King said that, it immediately became an iconic plaint in America. That makes me think that it resonates with a flaw that we see in ourselves.

To follow up on Roody's post about why Ford and Chrysler left HP, not necessarily them specifically but why many plants relocate. They typically build them where property values are low and they can buy large tracts of land for very little money. Then when the area gets built up and they need to rebuild or expand, the land costs, taxes and the like can be too great. Or some other area will offer them a better incentive package to relocate. So they abandon the plant and move on. Labor costs also figure into this equation. You have a built up area like HP where people are accustomed to making $X an hour. If the plant relocates to say backwater Kansas they can lower their wage base and increase their profits. I work in the industrial field as a specialty roofing contractor and get to see many of these plants up close and personal as well as the day to day workings of them. In most cases it is cheaper to build a new plant than it is to upgrade an old one primarily due to EPA and Safety regulations. I am currently being held prisoner (not really;) ) at an Alcoa Plant in South Carolina. They used to have a sister plant to this one in Frederick, MD. The one in MD closed down lock stock and barrel about 2 years ago for various reasons. That plant was replaced by one in Jamica. From what I gather the "official" reason for shutting down was the age of the plant (bogus IMHO) and their inability to get a favorable contract for electricity purchases. Now that may have been the case, but that plant had also recently gone union and contract negotiations were under way. The SC plant I am at is non union and the wage average down here is at least $5 an hour less than the MD plant was. FWIW Alcoa has at least 3 plants that I am aware of in the US that are older than the MD plant that was shut down. Just another point of view...:rolleyes: And every time a good sized plant shuts down you will have another big empty building and the housing for it's employees sitting empty. I also noticed this phenomenon when I was working in Mobile, AL. I don't know what industry used to be there but there are large sections of empty land where manufacturing plants used to sit as well as entire areas of housing that are closed off by chain link fence.

Aaron:)

fleeing America's urban centers began before America's industrial decline. It really excelerated with the building of the freeways...Did not it accelerate following the Civil Rights struggle? Just posing a question based on how I perceive ethnic/housing data has evolved. Is America still pretty much segregated?

The Fabulous Ruins of Detroit
http://www.detroityes.com/home.htm

James Howard Kunstler has said that in the energy strapped future the McMansions in the far flung asteriod belts of suburbia will be inhabited my multiple families with crops growing in the front yard.
http://www.kunstler.com/

The Fabulous Ruins of Detroit
http://www.detroityes.com/home.htm

James Howard Kunstler has said that in the energy strapped future the McMansions in the far flung asteriod belts of suburbia will be inhabited my multiple families with crops growing in the front yard.
http://www.kunstler.com/

Hehehe...we are already growing crops...but we were there FIRST!!! I am fast becoming the center of a new suburbia in my area. 700 home golf course across the road, 8,000 new homes going in with in a couple of mile. Only good thing is that the local Army base owns the property on 3 sides of me:D so no development there! I am hedging my bets and hoping that my personal local based agrarian society will pan out in the long run. At this point I am not trying to make a living, just get the stuff in place for the future. As well as maintaining a small house in town 25 miles away:rolleyes: :o

BTW thanks for the link on the Fabulous Ruins of Detroit...sad, poignant, but some signs of hope. It amazes me to see all of the wasted labor and materials that went into those plants and homes...I guess we really are a throw away society...

Aaron:)

There was some cool stuff in those buildings. I always wanted to live in an old firehouse. I think it would be cool. Especially if it still had a pole.

Americans don't really have a choice where to live other than A Vs. B, suburbs or very large city. Having only two or three choices isn't really having choice.

Hehehe...we are already growing crops...but we were there FIRST!!! I am fast becoming the center of a new suburbia in my area. 700 home golf course across the road, 8,000 new homes going in with in a couple of mile. Only good thing is that the local Army base owns the property on 3 sides of me:D so no development there! I am hedging my bets and hoping that my personal local based agrarian society will pan out in the long run. At this point I am not trying to make a living, just get the stuff in place for the future. As well as maintaining a small house in town 25 miles away:rolleyes: :o

BTW thanks for the link on the Fabulous Ruins of Detroit...sad, poignant, but some signs of hope. It amazes me to see all of the wasted labor and materials that went into those plants and homes...I guess we really are a throw away society...

Aaron:)
Don't you worry about property taxes going sky-high with all the development in your area?

One of my fantasies about Detroit/Highland Park is buying up a block of abandoned houses and doing some farming. With a loss of half the population in 30 years, food growing might be a great business in this blighted city. I'm surprised the Nation of Islam or the Black Panthers haven't started doing this already. Or maybe they have?

fleeing America's urban centers began before America's industrial decline. It really excelerated with the building of the freeways...Did not it accelerate following the Civil Rights struggle? Just posing a question based on how I perceive ethnic/housing data has evolved. Is America still pretty much segregated? Yes America is still quite segregated. (So is France, n'est-ce pas?) But there has been some progress in this area, and I'm hopeful there will be much more progress in the near future.

BTW, It's been said that the movement of black and white people from the rural south to the industrial cities of the north was the largest migration in human history. You uproot that many people and plunk them down someplace else, and there's bound to be a bit of discord. In some ways it went quite well. After all, they put the world on wheels! ;)

Urban abandonment will never happen to the Los Angeles area. People now flock from all over the world rather than just the colder parts of the United States. Real estate continues to boom in spite of it alleged slowdown since you cannot make more land-it's a finite resource.

Don't you worry about property taxes going sky-high with all the development in your area?

One of my fantasies about Detroit/Highland Park is buying up a block of abandoned houses and doing some farming. With a loss of half the population in 30 years, food growing might be a great business in this blighted city. I'm surprised the Nation of Islam or the Black Panthers haven't started doing this already. Or maybe they have?

Roody,
Eventually I am sure it will, but currently because we are still "farming" the land (mostly hay fields, some cattle, horses and goats grazing) we are only charged farm land taxes. The acre surrounding our house is deeded separately and gets taxed at a slightly higher rate, but it is still lower than regular residential rates. We are also in the process of buying a duplex "in town" as well as a vacant acre lot on the edge of town for future planning/farming. I love your idea of taking over a couple of blocks in a place like HP:D What I figure will happen eventually is that we will reclaim a lot of the farm land that has been paved over in the name of progress:p In fact some pundit pointed out that his community had plenty of farm land, it was currently landbanked as parking lots:rolleyes: Also on a cheery note! My little town has started up a real honest to god Farmer's Market. And the basic rules for it are awesome. Items must have been produced within a 50 mile radius of the market, no resales or flea market type items.:beer: They only cost involved is a $25 yearly "membership fee" to help offset admin and advertising costs. It doesn't open until April and I can't wait. I assure you I will be a regular shopper if they sell what I want. Prices be damned!

As far as the nation of Islam or the Black Panthers farming I have a hard time visualizing that...they seem mostly geared towards anarchy and getting something from the government ie; white establishment.

Aaron:)

Roody,
This is one of the reasons I am doing all I can to keep this land from being paved under....

Aaron:)
http://inlinethumb44.webshots.com/3051/2496512850066886751S500x500Q85.jpg

Urban abandonment will never happen to the Los Angeles area. People now flock from all over the world rather than just the colder parts of the United States. Real estate continues to boom in spite of it alleged slowdown since you cannot make more land-it's a finite resource.
What about if there was no water?

True True. I predict that water will become more expensive than gold.

Your also going to see oxygen cannisters/gas mask kits selling at your locate grocery store since the air quality will be so bad.

Urban abandonment will never happen to the Los Angeles area. People now flock from all over the world rather than just the colder parts of the United States. Real estate continues to boom in spite of it alleged slowdown since you cannot make more land-it's a finite resource.


What about if there was no water?


True True. I predict that water will become more expensive than gold.


And good old Highland Park is sitting right in the middle of one-fifth of the world's fresh water. (And it will be a much higher percentage when the ice caps and glaciers melt into the sea.) When LA is hot and dry, the Great Lakes are gonna look pretty nice. What goes around comes around! :p

Your also going to see oxygen cannisters/gas mask kits selling at your locate grocery store since the air quality will be so bad.

If high prices drive oil consumption down, LA might see improvement in the air quality. On the other hand, high energy prices will make it harder for LA to import water.

Roody,
This is one of the reasons I am doing all I can to keep this land from being paved under....

Aaron:)

The land is beautiful, Aaron. I'm glad you're taking care of it. "Thank you for your service." :)

Every year more or less I do some carfree adventure traveling. Highland Park looks like an interesting challenge. What are the carfree resources there? Best season to visit, places to see, things to do, transit and travel connections, etc.

Urban abandonment will never happen to the Los Angeles area. People now flock from all over the world rather than just the colder parts of the United States. Real estate continues to boom in spite of it alleged slowdown since you cannot make more land-it's a finite resource.

Ha! That's delusional. LA will become one of the least sustainable places in the oil strapped future.
Read The Long Emergency by James Howard Kunstler.

Every year more or less I do some carfree adventure traveling. Highland Park looks like an interesting challenge. What are the carfree resources there? Best season to visit, places to see, things to do, transit and travel connections, etc.
Well, just ride in on a shiny bike, wearing a nice spandex outfit and waving a handful of credit cards. The locals will roll out the red carpet for you! ;)

Don't you worry about property taxes going sky-high with all the development in your area?

One of my fantasies about Detroit/Highland Park is buying up a block of abandoned houses and doing some farming. With a loss of half the population in 30 years, food growing might be a great business in this blighted city. I'm surprised the Nation of Islam or the Black Panthers haven't started doing this already. Or maybe they have?

About urban abandonment- Many manufacturers left the core cities for a reason little touched on in this thread- soil and water pollution resulting in brownfields. It was cheaper and easier to move the factory to the suburbs or overseas. Would it be safe to farm in these areas?

Every year more or less I do some carfree adventure traveling. Highland Park looks like an interesting challenge. What are the carfree resources there? Best season to visit, places to see, things to do, transit and travel connections, etc.
No carfree resourses whatsoever, no cycling facilities or accomodations. Detroit and its metro area have, at best, very poor public transit. The airport is about a 35-45 minute drive from Highland Park. The closest (decent) hotel accomodations would be in downtown Detroit. Best seasons to visit would be late spring and fall. It's hot and humid in the summers and very cold in the winters.

I say this as someone who will most likely never own a firearm: I would not go exploring that area without carrying or being accompanied by someone who does unless my companion or I knew the area very, very well. I would never go alone. My late father, who was definitely a "Detroit tough", would have never gone alone. You would do well to hook up with some people who regularly explore the abandonded areas of the city.

One very wonderful attraction not to miss if you're ever in Detroit are the Diego Rivera murals at the Detroit Institute of Arts. There is also a Greektown with excellent food, as well as Under the Eagle (Polish food) in Hamtramck, which is the other small city completely surrounded by Detroit proper.

About urban abandonment- Many manufacturers left the core cities for a reason little touched on in this thread- soil and water pollution resulting in brownfields. It was cheaper and easier to move the factory to the suburbs or overseas. Would it be safe to farm in these areas?I'm concerned that it might not be safe to farm even in former agricultural areas. Lots of arsenic was applied over the years to cotton fields and orchards. The half life of plutonium is 24,000 years, but arsenic is forever.