Folding Bikes - what's the best folding bike for small apartments?

It may be late for me to be writing this, but I bought a used bike from Wav once. I cannot talk about the morals of Wav as a person, but my transaction with him went very smoothly. As a result of the transaction, we spoke over the phone more than once and I wouldn't have a problem doing business with him again. I recommend doing business with him basically because he is a folder bike enthusiast, so he knows what he is selling and as far as I know, he is not doing it to make money from other members, but just to recycle his bikes into other bikes that he wants (I personally changed my taste and preferences more than once). Chances are you will be getting a good product with a less than average to average price.

R14.

makeinu,

I'm glad that the whole 'cultural difference' and the 'negative tone' was a misunderstanding. As far as your bike purchase, I hope it goes smoothly. I also hope that the bike works well for you and that even though this thread sort of went somewhere you didn't expect, that you will still feel comfortable coming back here with any questions or help that you may need.

davewnyc - If a friend or colleague of mine might even possibly be attacked, slandered, or mentioned negatively in any way, I would be there to defend them. I would also believe that anyone reading the posts would see the defense for what it is - an attempt to keep posts polite and friendly so that everyone feels comfortable.

I, for one, have no hard feelings whatsoever and I understand completely where you are coming from. I think this whole ordeal was just a misunderstanding. Perhaps I'm even entirely at fault, but I'm glad we finally cleared it up.

cheers,
makeinu

How about a Dahon Mini Bike the smooth hound is a bit pricey but il looks like an excellent tourer. Plus it is a good looking bike very classy.Check the dahons.

Hey everyone. Sorry for coming in too late. I'm still overseas. But I went through the same decisionmaking process. I think there are a lot of bikes that meet these specs. I think the key is realizing that there is relatively little difference in efficiency once you have decent tires and basic alloy parts on a bike. So, even a 16" folder can handle a century or a fast group ride provided it's dialed in right and has a decent amount of suspension.

My partner rides a Downtube NS, which is too big for multi-mode (unless you count the subway, which can accomodate any size bike) and too heavy for daily lugging up and down stairs, but rides great. My old Mu SL was great, but I don't like having a hinge on the frame. So I went with the Birdy, which is pricey and a slight hassle to fold, but fits all of my needs. If I wasn't so finicky about the hinge, I would recommend Dahon.

I think if I were Wav, I'd pass on selling you the bike... twice you post that you want to inform the group as to whether or not Wav is going to rip you off.. Wav has been a respected member of this group for quite some time and in no way is going to "rip you off"... if the bike doesn't meet your criteria, that's a whole different ball of wax and in no way will reflect on Wav... I have a new orange 05 FS for sale for $225, and I would pass if you offered me 3 bills.

Bruce

Yes I agree.

Wav offered to procure me some Koolstop Salmon brake pads and ship them over to the UK when I couldn't find a supplier. He did this at cost, for no other reason but to help out a fellow folder rider. Everything went exactly as he said it would. I want you to understand that these weren't pads he had lying about the garage - he went out and got them for me - a complete stranger, parceled them up and posted them. He's a totally sound man, and I'd trust him absolutely. Wav is the kind of bloke the world needs more of. People buying from a forum shouldn't be casting slurs in advance of receiving the goods as if they were probably dealing with a rip-off artist.

What I said doesn't infer anything like that and I'm very surprised at what you think it infers. Maybe it's a cultural difference, but in my opinion anyone who doesn't cautiously assume that any anonymous online seller is a potential scammer is a fool.

Let it suffice to say that I'm much more confident now that Wav will not rip me off because:
1. I interrogated Wav to my satisfaction with tons of questions. Thankfully he was very nice about it and took it in stride.
2. He already had the ideal opportunity to take the money and run, but didn't (For his protection I'd rather not discuss the details, but it happened after I posted my comment).
3. Many people are now testifying that he is reputable (I previously couldn't get such a testimony).

You interrogated him to your satisfaction? When you're in a deep hole, it's time to stop digging it deeper pal. Every post you make about this is offensively implying your surprise at the fact that the guy hasn't ripped you off quite yet.... I've never seen anything like that on this forum in over a year of reading it. Maybe you've been mixing with too many of the wrong people.

Yes I agree.

Wav offered to procure me some Koolstop Salmon brake pads and ship them over to the UK when I couldn't find a supplier. He did this at cost, for no other reason but to help out a fellow folder rider. Everything went exactly as he said it would. I want you to understand that these weren't pads he had lying about the garage - he went out and got them for me - a complete stranger, parceled them up and posted them. He's a totally sound man, and I'd trust him absolutely. Wav is the kind of bloke the world needs more of. People buying from a forum shouldn't be casting slurs in advance of receiving the goods as if they were probably dealing with a rip-off artist.
That's easy for you to say because you've already had a positive experience with Wav. I'm sure once my bike is delivered I'll be singing the same praises. However, I would never recommend something so foolish as taking any less precautions with an unknown seller than one would with an average rip-off artist.

In any case, it really doesn't matter what you think of my attitude towards sellers unproven and unknown to me, because it's my $320 on the line, not yours. Quite frankly, my interactions with Wav are nobody's business except mine and Wav's. I just thought the other members of the forum would appreciate me sharing my experiences, but apparently not. I'm perfectly happy to keep my experiences to myself if so many forum members are offended by them.


You interrogated him to your satisfaction? When you're in a deep hole, it's time to stop digging it deeper pal. Every post you make about this is offensively implying your surprise at the fact that the guy hasn't ripped you off quite yet.... I've never seen anything like that on this forum in over a year of reading it. Maybe you've been mixing with too many of the wrong people.
I'm not digging myself into any hole. I haven't received any complaints from the "victim" which so many of you are trying to defend. If you are offended by the fact that I take the necessary precautions to protect myself from scam artists then that is a problem you have created for yourself. I am quite happy with the way I conduct business over the internet and I have no qualms about discussing it.

There are a lot of "the wrong people" on the internet. That's not a reflection of Wav or anyone else I mix with. That's just life.

You interrogated him to your satisfaction? When you're in a deep hole, it's time to stop digging it deeper pal. Every post you make about this is offensively implying your surprise at the fact that the guy hasn't ripped you off quite yet.... I've never seen anything like that on this forum in over a year of reading it. Maybe you've been mixing with too many of the wrong people.

We all have the right to post, but I thought that this issue was resolved already.

"Guys-
One suggestion.....why don't you just let Wavshadr deal with the poster as he sees fit? It's his bike for sale and his transaction. Although you may not necessarily agree with the "advance" cynicism makeinu used when describing the transaction, I don't think he meant any harm to Wavshadr. Also, makeinu did go to great lengths to say how positive the dealings with wavshadr have been so far.
So let's see what happens. From what it looks like so far, both waveshdr and makeinu are going to both make out just fine..."-davewnyc

"...Wav offered to procure me some Koolstop Salmon brake pads and ship them over to the UK when I couldn't find a supplier. He did this at cost, for no other reason but to help out a fellow folder rider. Everything went exactly as he said it would. I want you to understand that these weren't pads he had lying about the garage - he went out and got them for me - a complete stranger, parceled them up and posted them. He's a totally sound man, and I'd trust him absolutely. Wav is the kind of bloke the world needs more of. People buying from a forum shouldn't be casting slurs in advance of receiving the goods as if they were probably dealing with a rip-off artist..."-EvilV

"You interrogated him to your satisfaction? When you're in a deep hole, it's time to stop digging it deeper pal. Every post you make about this is offensively implying your surprise at the fact that the guy hasn't ripped you off quite yet.... I've never seen anything like that on this forum in over a year of reading it. Maybe you've been mixing with too many of the wrong people." -EvilV

"...In any case, it really doesn't matter what you think of my attitude towards sellers unproven and unknown to me, because it's my $320 on the line, not yours. Quite frankly, my interactions with Wav are nobody's business except mine and Wav's...I'm not digging myself into any hole. I haven't received any complaints from the "victim" which so many of you are trying to defend. If you are offended by the fact that I take the necessary precautions to protect myself from scam artists then that is a problem you have created for yourself. I am quite happy with the way I conduct business over the internet and I have no qualms about discussing it.

There are a lot of "the wrong people" on the internet. That's not a reflection of Wav or anyone else I mix with. That's just life..."- makeinu

I do not like the direction this thread has taken. With each post, I am glad that I turned down the "opportunity" to better serve the folding bike community by investing my own cash into a family runned business with a bunch of-well I not sure what I should call this. Is it fear of the unknown? When the crass middle class first ventured on the internet way back when (only a few years ago in real time), all sorts of middle class fears were transfered onto the web like fear of getting ripped off, fear of strangers, fear of meeting new people, or my favorite of all the fear of something that has not even taken place yet.

As far as doing business with the same bunch of nervous nellies, I pass and gladly. I think I will stay as neutral as possible with my nonincome generating Web sites, try to encourage-not scare off-potential folder fans, and try to meet my monthly bills and other social obligations in the meantime. I know the financial world is unstable and unpredicable. I know things are dangerous and threatening (my best friend was murdered 29 years ago last Febuary 16 Looking for a bargain for her car see her photo at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/world-of-folding-bicycles/289494509/in/set-72157594325178229/), but if there is something that I have learned over the years is not to judge to quick before something happens, don't do business on the internet, and support my favorite regional bike shops or speciality internet companies like ThorUSA with my money-not haggleing private parties.

That's easy for you to say because you've already had a positive experience with Wav. I'm sure once my bike is delivered I'll be singing the same praises. However, I would never recommend something so foolish as taking any less precautions with an unknown seller than one would with an average rip-off artist.

.

I have resisted becoming further involved in this mess but since you keep saying how you were doing us all a favor, I am compelled to mention that I fail to see how you connect your statement of "I'll let you know if I get ripped off" with taking precautions.

How is a post like that on a bike forum a precaution? How does making this statement, with no evidence that he is going to rip you off, help anyone on this forum?

Perhaps it was a message intended for Wav to let him know what was in store if he didn't do the right thing... This seems far more plausible, especially given the content of your subsequent posts.

We are all interested to hear FACTS about your or anyone else's transactions and bike experiences but it should be pretty clear to you by now that we - at least most of us - are not interested in hearing you cast undeserved dispersions under the guise of keeping us informed.

There was no information in your original post regarding this transaction - just a bad attitude. Your subsequent posts have confirmed this observation. EvilV got it right... stop digging.

If you want to take your toys and go home ("I'm perfectly happy to keep my experiences to myself...") that's fine too.

I have resisted becoming further involved in this mess but since you keep saying how you were doing us all a favor, I am compelled to mention that I fail to see how you connect your statement of "I'll let you know if I get ripped off" with taking precautions.

How is a post like that on a bike forum a precaution? How does making this statement, with no evidence that he is going to rip you off, help anyone on this forum?

My understanding was that the big problem everyone has with me is that I have approached this transaction with a generous amount of skepticism, not necessarily that I chose to voice that skepticism.

Perhaps it was a message intended for Wav to let him know what was in store if he didn't do the right thing... This seems far more plausible, especially given the content of your subsequent posts.

We are all interested to hear FACTS about your or anyone else's transactions and bike experiences but it should be pretty clear to you by now that we - at least most of us - are not interested in hearing you cast undeserved dispersions under the guise of keeping us informed.

There was no information in your original post regarding this transaction - just a bad attitude. Your subsequent posts have confirmed this observation. EvilV got it right... stop digging.

If you want to take your toys and go home ("I'm perfectly happy to keep my experiences to myself...") that's fine too.
To tell you the truth, I fail to see how my statement "I'll let you know if I get ripped off" connects in a tangible fashion with anything at all.

At first I thought the big beef so many of you have with me was that you thought I was trying to imply Wav had done something to somehow earn a reputation for being untrustworthy. I believe it's been made abundantly clear that I was not trying to imply anything of the sort and I apologized for not being absolutely clear in that regard. However, apparently some people still have a problem with me. I have no idea why.

Does the problem lie in the fact that I approached this transaction with a generous amount of skepticism or in the fact that I voiced that skepticism? The fact that I was skeptical to begin with is a precaution to protect myself. The fact that I voiced the status of my transaction is simply a matter of factual record to keep the community informed. Perhaps the problem lies in the way I chose to express this matter of factual record? In response to that all I can say is there are many possible word choices to express the same facts and the words I chose just seemed like the best way to express it at the time. I think the biggest factor was that they accurately reflected my true attitude towards the situation. Furthermore, as you have pointed out, they gave a bit of a warning to potential scam artists. All of this amounted to what seemed like the best choice of words at the time. Perhaps it wasn't the best choice of words. So what? We can debate the minutia of whether or not my choice of words yielded the optimal connotation for the situation all day, but is it really worth it to have a flame war over the connotation of a nine word sentence?

You guys are making a mountain out of a molehill, but if it's really that important to you then I will just stop posting. Even though I've received a great deal of helpful information from this community and I'd like to give back, I don't need the ego boost. If you guys are so offended by my tone or my attitude that you'd rather not hear my experiences then I'll simply give my thanks and farewells. I don't want to take my toys and go home, but I'm certainly not going to sugarcoat my experiences because some people think my tone is too negative and if keeping to myself is what it will take to not upset people then so be it. However, I'd much prefer if we could all just move on.

I am going to recommend the Swift Folder by Human Powered Machines, Peter Reicht, or Xootr, even though I have no folding bike experience what-so-ever. I do have a Swift on order with HPM, and that is why I am recommending it.....do take my recommendation with a grain of salt please. If after, I end up disliking the Swift, I will report back here with my change of recommendations. If you do not hear back from me in this thread, then go right ahead and assume that I recommend the Swift as a good bike for apartments.

We all have the right to post, but I thought that this issue was resolved already.

Well yes my friend, some of you had seen this and commented earlier. I hadn't. I've been in Geneva and only took a cursory look at the forum. Now I've seen it and commented, I'm done.

I am going to recommend the Swift Folder by Human Powered Machines, Peter Reicht, or Xootr, even though I have no folding bike experience what-so-ever. I do have a Swift on order with HPM, and that is why I am recommending it.....do take my recommendation with a grain of salt please. If after, I end up disliking the Swift, I will report back here with my change of recommendations. If you do not hear back from me in this thread, then go right ahead and assume that I recommend the Swift as a good bike for apartments.
:D

This reminds me of something... rephrased slightly:

I'll recommend the Swift as an apartment bike. I'll let you know if it sucks when I get it.

To tell you the truth, I fail to see how my statement "I'll let you know if I get ripped off" connects in a tangible fashion with anything at all.

At first I thought the big beef so many of you have with me was that you thought I was trying to imply Wav had done something to somehow earn a reputation for being untrustworthy. I believe it's been made abundantly clear that I was not trying to imply anything of the sort and I apologized for not being absolutely clear in that regard. However, apparently some people still have a problem with me. I have no idea why.

Does the problem lie in the fact that I approached this transaction with a generous amount of skepticism or in the fact that I voiced that skepticism? The fact that I was skeptical to begin with is a precaution to protect myself. The fact that I voiced the status of my transaction is simply a matter of factual record to keep the community informed. Perhaps the problem lies in the way I chose to express this matter of factual record? In response to that all I can say is there are many possible word choices to express the same facts and the words I chose just seemed like the best way to express it at the time. I think the biggest factor was that they accurately reflected my true attitude towards the situation. Furthermore, as you have pointed out, they gave a bit of a warning to potential scam artists. All of this amounted to what seemed like the best choice of words at the time. Perhaps it wasn't the best choice of words. So what? We can debate the minutia of whether or not my choice of words yielded the optimal connotation for the situation all day, but is it really worth it to have a flame war over the connotation of a nine word sentence?

You guys are making a mountain out of a molehill, but if it's really that important to you then I will just stop posting. Even though I've received a great deal of helpful information from this community and I'd like to give back, I don't need the ego boost. If you guys are so offended by my tone or my attitude that you'd rather not hear my experiences then I'll simply give my thanks and farewells. I don't want to take my toys and go home, but I'm certainly not going to sugarcoat my experiences because some people think my tone is too negative and if keeping to myself is what it will take to not upset people then so be it. However, I'd much prefer if we could all just move on.

I was done but since you altered my post... I'm hoping that you didn't intend to do it. Putting your words in the middle of my post without indicating the break in the quote could be misleading. If it was inadvertent, no need to apologize, it's already forgiven.

And no, it wasn't that you were skeptical that was the problem, you should always be concerned about a deal with someone you don't know, that's normal. The issue that I and most others have is that you voiced it in writing (which is forever, you can't take it back) with no evidence and then said you did it to help others on the forum.

No one is asking you to sugar coat anything. What you did is the opposite of that. Again, facts, not speculation.

To tell you the truth, I fail to see how my statement "I'll let you know if I get ripped off" connects in a tangible fashion with anything at all.

At first I thought the big beef so many of you have with me was that you thought I was trying to imply Wav had done something to somehow earn a reputation for being untrustworthy. I believe it's been made abundantly clear that I was not trying to imply anything of the sort and I apologized for not being absolutely clear in that regard. However, apparently some people still have a problem with me. I have no idea why.

Does the problem lie in the fact that I approached this transaction with a generous amount of skepticism or in the fact that I voiced that skepticism? The fact that I was skeptical to begin with is a precaution to protect myself. The fact that I voiced the status of my transaction is simply a matter of factual record to keep the community informed. Perhaps the problem lies in the way I chose to express this matter of factual record? In response to that all I can say is there are many possible word choices to express the same facts and the words I chose just seemed like the best way to express it at the time. I think the biggest factor was that they accurately reflected my true attitude towards the situation. Furthermore, as you have pointed out, they gave a bit of a warning to potential scam artists. All of this amounted to what seemed like the best choice of words at the time. Perhaps it wasn't the best choice of words. So what? We can debate the minutia of whether or not my choice of words yielded the optimal connotation for the situation all day, but is it really worth it to have a flame war over the connotation of a nine word sentence?

You guys are making a mountain out of a molehill, but if it's really that important to you then I will just stop posting. Even though I've received a great deal of helpful information from this community and I'd like to give back, I don't need the ego boost. If you guys are so offended by my tone or my attitude that you'd rather not hear my experiences then I'll simply give my thanks and farewells. I don't want to take my toys and go home, but I'm certainly not going to sugarcoat my experiences because some people think my tone is too negative and if keeping to myself is what it will take to not upset people then so be it. However, I'd much prefer if we could all just move on.

See what I mean. Unintentional (I assume) alienation and makeinu-bashing by fellow forum members. This is the type of behavior I warned about previously in my last post. This is really between just 2 members of this forum. Just only expressing fears is healthy-which simply is what makeinu has done. I think this basically illustrates about the old "two many cooks" saying that I grew up with. There is enought Helacopter parenting, hypocondriacs, excessive worriers, and other upper class fears abound. How about some positive reinforcement and encouragement? Or simply not say anything at all.

Or simply not say anything at all.

Hopefully you and everyone else will follow this sage advice and this thread can (finally) be laid to rest...

I will just stop posting.

Keep posting.

:D

This reminds me of something... rephrased slightly:

I'll recommend the Swift as an apartment bike. I'll let you know if it sucks when I get it.


-Exactly!

Hopefully you and everyone else will follow this sage advice and this thread can (finally) be laid to rest...

I agree except that you forgot to fully quote me by adding the..."How about some positive reinforcement and encouragement?"...that came before?

The smallest apartment I lived in, about twenty years ago, I had a full sized bike which I kept inside, leaning up against a wall. Only had to dodge slightly to get around it. I put down something to protect the carpet, can't remember what. As I recall, one local bike shop had some Dahons; I thought they were a neat idea, but I didn't really take them seriously at the time. Folders are great, but if you're determined to have a bike, you'll always find a way, regardless of storage space.

See, there *is* a legitimate reason for this thread, right? ;)

I agree except that you forgot to fully quote me by adding the..."How about some positive reinforcement and encouragement?"...that came before?

I did not forget, the lacuna was there for a reason. However, you are quite right, I could have used an ellipsis.

Anyway, as I cannot follow my own simple advice and leave this thread alone, I must have imperceptibly evolved into one of those obsessive-compulsive forum types that I used to pity...

I got the bike from Wav. Everything is as promised and the bike is in great condition. He even threw in a spare tire and a puncture resistant ring.

The only thing I could possibly say anything negative about is that the only padding he used to ship it was two thin pieces of bubble wrap around the main hinge, but the bike came completely unscathed, so I guess it didn't need more padding.

All in all I'd say that my transaction with Wav is the best used online transaction I've ever had.

I'll post my initial impressions of the bike itself in the VIIIH thread.

I did not forget, the lacuna was there for a reason.

You made me look up "lacuna". :lol:

Well I think that....
ahh, just forget it.. ; )

Glad it all worked out in the end. And Juan, yes, if I am ever on trial for my life, I want you guys on my defense team ; )
Have a great weekend, everybody

I have had 5 Downtubes. 20 miles is nothing for them, including the Mini. There's a guy on here called Crankypants who's touring in Eastern Europe on the Mini. I routinely ride 40-50 miles on the weekend with my group on the DT front suspension. I have a DT that I converted into a recumbent in order to do a double century this year. They are sturdy bikes, not toys.


Downtubes are sturdy and good bikes and easy to upgrade. However, if you are taller, as I am, I would find 20 miles on a downtube tedious if not for some upgrades. Crankypants and SesameCrunch are tinkerers and probably good mechanics and I know Cranky had put some serious work into fitting his bike.

The Downtube is a great bike for what you pay, but if you're tall you'll want some more reach.

Sincere Congradulations here, makeinu (sorry, no spell check available right now). I am glad things worked out for you. This reminds me of the debates I had participated in when I was in undergraduate school. Without the face to face social customs to encourage good positive behavior on all participants. I am looking foward to reading your review when you are ready to post it.

[QUOTE=makeinu]
All in all I'd say that my transaction with Wav is the best used online transaction I've ever had.[QUOTE]

Not that Wav should open a business or anything, but I was a happy camper myself when I dealed with him.

People like that makes this forum a positive experience.

R