Custom Rivendell: Two Year Waiting List?

[Motorad]

I've been researching Rivendell bikes, and their Custom Rivendell bikes would be an excellant ride.

However, my first informal contact with the company has indicated a two year waiting period. That is one serious wait.

Is anybody on the waiting list for a Custom Rivendell, and how long have you been on the list? Any comments about the waiting list, such as for starters ... is it worth the wait?

[Louis]

Is it worth the wait? For a younger person it definitely would be worth the wait. At my age it doesn't even make sense to buy green bananas.:o

[CrossChain]

Consider their non-custom Rambouillet. Not quite as flawlessly finished and the lugs not quite so ornate, but.............if it falls over in the garage you won't have heart stoppage and it has, as they told me at Rivendell, at least 90% of the custom's performance. And with the difference in price....the imagination can run wild.

Just depends on money and time available...and felt need for their "best".

P.S. I've seen a custom Riv............they do "gleam".

[late]

Hi,
I think Waterford makes a slightly better bike. They don't usually have a long wait, and all Waterfords are custom. They also have a 'budget' line called Gunnar.
That's what I have. My wife has a budget Rivendell.

[Hermes]

Something does not add up. A two year wait for any purchase is too long - they could go out of business before your order is fulfilled:eek: . They must be having some kind of problem. Even if the quality is A+ the fulfillment of the order is F-. There are too many good custom builders to wait two years.

[CrossChain]

There is a kind of "chic" in the retro, sometimes boutique world of Rivendellian taste and bikes. Just like some Italophiles need a bike crafted by a little, welding torch wielding Gepetto-like character. (If you can find such.) Many of Riv's owners have, I think, more than one bike and so don't mind the excruciating wait. A sort of rite of passage?

Personally, a bike is a tool for me....and too jewel-like a bike would make me feel a little inhibited about using it and "going anywhere". Older bikes that work well appeal to me. I can sweat on them, knock 'em over, let them get grimey, etc.-- as long as mechanically they're well tuned. A nice thing about steel.

I'm sure others have more refined and nuanced taste and the wait somehow contributes to its value for them.

[BSLeVan]

There are too many good custom builders to wait two years.

+1 There are a lot of very good custom builders with a much shorter wait. What is it that attracts you to the Rivendell? Is it possible you could get what you seek from another builder?

[Louis]

On Tom B's thread about having $3K to buy any bike you want, I said I'd probably end up with a Rivendell.

Seriously, if the wait is 2 years I would look elsewhere, as much as I love the Riv's and Rambo's.

[Jet Travis]

There is a kind of "chic" in the retro, sometimes boutique world of Rivendellian taste and bikes. Just like some Italophiles Many of Riv's owners have, I think, more than one bike and so don't mind the excruciating wait. A sort of rite of passage?

Personally, a bike is a tool for me....and too jewel-like a bike would make me feel a little inhibited about using it and "going anywhere". Older bikes that work well appeal to me. I'm sure others have more refined and nuanced taste and the wait somehow contributes to its value for them.

Somebody once said, "Rivendell is not a bicycle company. It's a church." I think there's some truth to that. I've listened with great interest to Grant's sermons, and I'm glad the church exists. I've certanly spent a few bucks there, and everything I purchased has been of excellent quality.

At the same time, I can't quite transform myself into a true believer. Ironically, perhaps, Rivendell convinced me that lugged steel bikes from the 1980s set a standard that more contemporary bikes would do well to emulate. Since I already own two such bikes that I purchased 23 years ago, I just couldn't see buying a similar bike built in the 21st Century.

[edit] For what it's worth, I just went to the Riv website. They say the wait for a custom bike can be "eight to 36 months. We aim for a year."

[I-Like-To-Bike]

On Tom B's thread about having $3K to buy any bike you want, I said I'd probably end up with a Rivendell.

Seriously, if the wait is 2 years I would look elsewhere, as much as I love the Riv's and Rambo's.
A bike seller would have to pay me $3,000 to make me wait two years for his product.

[spry]

Is it worth the wait? For a younger person it definitely would be worth the wait. At my age it doesn't even make sense to buy green bananas.:o

At your age huh?I,ve seen the road zealots in your group climb those 20-30% hills in your town.I,m 53 and I avoid your"hood"like the plague.:)

[Louis]

At your age huh?I,ve seen the road zealots in your group climb those 20-30% hills in your town.I,m 53 and I avoid your"hood"like the plague.:)

:lol: Lately I climb like I have the plague.

Are you sure you have my location correct? I'm about 10 miles west of Akron.

[big john]

If I was going to wait 2 years, I would want a Vanilla. Last October, I waited 3 weeks for my Gunnar. It's a sweet riding frame, hard to think a Rivendell could ride that much better. I know, there's the lust factor.

[Tom Bombadil]

On Tom B's thread about having $3K to buy any bike you want, I said I'd probably end up with a Rivendell.

Seriously, if the wait is 2 years I would look elsewhere, as much as I love the Riv's and Rambo's.

I'm sorry Louis, but you first said "Rivendell" and I'm going to have to hold you to it.

And since the small print on the $3000 gift certificate said that it expires in 1 year, then I guess you are just out of luck.

[Louis]

I'm sorry Louis, but you first said "Rivendell" and I'm going to have to hold you to it.
And since the small print on the $3000 gift certificate said that it expires in 1 year, then I guess you are just out of luck.
S.O.L. again. :cry: I've been there so many times, you ain't gettin' no rookie.:D

[Velo Dog]

The wait is nothing new--Riv has had an 18-month to two-year wait as long as I've been paying attention, which is probably six or eight years. If you're 55 or over, I think Grant lets you jump the line, though.
Having said that, I have both an Atlantis and a Rambouillet (got a great deal on the Rambo used, or I couldn't afford both), and I can't even imagine better bikes for the kind of riding I do. I mean that literally: I bought the Atlantis new five years ago to last until my kids got out of college, when I intended to buy a custom Riv. I have about 10,000 miles on that and 3,000 or so on the Rambo, and when I think about getting a custom, or any new bike at all, I can't justify it. There's NOTHING I can think of to change on either bike to make it better for a 62-year-old guy riding for recreation and fitness. Plus Riv has been great to deal with except for Brian, who's kind of a pr!ck.

[slvoid]

There is a kind of "chic" in the retro, sometimes boutique world of Rivendellian taste and bikes. Just like some Italophiles need a bike crafted by a little, welding torch wielding Gepetto-like character. (If you can find such.) Many of Riv's owners have, I think, more than one bike and so don't mind the excruciating wait. A sort of rite of passage?

Personally, a bike is a tool for me....and too jewel-like a bike would make me feel a little inhibited about using it and "going anywhere". Older bikes that work well appeal to me. I can sweat on them, knock 'em over, let them get grimey, etc.-- as long as mechanically they're well tuned. A nice thing about titanium.

I'm sure others have more refined and nuanced taste and the wait somehow contributes to its value for them.

There....

[slvoid]

Vanilla's have a 34 month, thats almost 3 years, waiting list. You could be dead before then. But then again, the bikes are heart breakingly beautiful..

[CrossChain]

Dear "slvoid",
This note is to inform you that you are in violation of the Articles of Deportment at Bicycle Forums, namely SubByLaw #231M, Paragraph 19, Entry 342, SubSlash CrossReferenced in Vol. 37, 14th Edition. To wit: Altering the rightful words of another member intentionally by design is punishable by having to post the word "titanium" a minimum of 20,000 times or until such malfeasance is deemed corrected.
Respectfully,
Joe Gardiner's Conscience.

[slvoid]

Wait hang on a sec... is that 20000 times starting now? Or is it retroactive?

[centexwoody]

Dear "slvoid",
This note is to inform you that you are in violation of the Articles of Deportment at Bicycle Forums, namely SubByLaw #231M, Paragraph 19, Entry 342, SubSlash CrossReferenced in Vol. 37, 14th Edition. To wit: Altering the rightful words of another member intentionally by design is punishable by having to post the word "titanium" a minimum of 20,000 times or until such malfeasance is deemed corrected.
Respectfully,
Joe Gardiner's Conscience.

So does his first titanium post count and now we can just look forward to another 19,999 times?

So he'll become "slvoid" AKA titanium?
or will he become "sltitanium" instead...:D

[BluesDawg]

I guess I could consider it fortunate that no matter how much I would like to have a custom Rivendell, I can't afford one and that's not likely to change in this lifetime. But if you want one and can pony up the price, you'll probably still want it in a couple of years when it is ready. Limited production volume + high demand = long waits.

[spry]

:lol: Lately I climb like I have the plague.

Are you sure you have my location correct? I'm about 10 miles west of Akron.
Excuse me Louis,
I was thinking Chagrin Falls,due to our previous discussion of the Michelobe Bike Ralley.Those hills are pure hell.

Some one told me there is a newly completed section of the towpath south of Akron due to open this spring?

[John E]

There is another, very satisfying, option -- restore and ride a classic.

[Motorad]

Consider their non-custom Rambouillet. Not quite as flawlessly finished and the lugs not quite so ornate, but.............if it falls over in the garage you won't have heart stoppage and it has, as they told me at Rivendell, at least 90% of the custom's performance. And with the difference in price....the imagination can run wild.

Just depends on money and time available...and felt need for their "best".

P.S. I've seen a custom Riv............they do "gleam".
Thanks everyone for your replies. I cracked up with the first post from Louis, with his wait-response that even WC Fields couldn't do better. One thing I'm good at is patient, and I'll order a Custom-bike from Riv and do the wait. The main reason for wanting a Custom is my PBH (74 cm) is limiting me on what is available in a quality, non-custom, all-purpose roadie. But ... I'd like to go ahead and get a more quality bike (than my current stock Trek 730) in the meantime.

To BLSeVan's post, about what attracted me to Riv-bikes (in two bloody years from now):
* Comfort for an all-purpose Custom-fitted bike.
* Useful for commuting, general riding, and occasional trail.
* Now that I've been riding my Trek 730 for a while, I can see that I would prefer a more comfortable bike that is more road-specific.
* Wide range of tire sizes for each frame.

To CrossChain's first post: Having read everyone's comments to this message, I went back and checked the geometries of the non-custom frames: For my 29" PBH, here are the closest frames, and would like to hear everyone's feedback on whether their standover heights are acceptable for my PBH:
* Atlantis size 47: Standover = 71.2 cm = 28"
* Rambouillet size 50: Standover = 74.2 cm
* Saluki size 47: Standover = 73.5 cm

Soooo, a question I could ask you guys and gals: With the Size 47-Atlantis having a reasonable Standover Height for me, what is the probability that the rest of this sized-frame's geometry could be adjusted by a LBS, to be a comfortable stock bike for a short person such as myself?

[jmccain]

Vanilla's have a 34 month, thats almost 3 years, waiting list. You could be dead before then...

I understand that you are not allowed to die while on a waiting list.

[howsteepisit]

Soot, you can get a custom Mercian to whatever frame spec you want in a lot less time, and for a lot less money. While I admire Rivendell's philosophy, the customs bikes are way overpriced for what they are, but to some its well worth the price. Besides, Grant need to eat too!

[terry b]

I know I wouldn't wait 2 years for any bike, 90 days is about my limit. And that's even pushing it.

There are many, many builders out there that can build you something that can adhere to Rivendell's dogma - there is nothing magic about an upright-riding heavy lugged steel bike with two-tone paint. It all depends on whether you want to have the additional benny of being able to say "I ride a Rivendell."

$2700 for frame and fork is additionally 50-100% more expensive than many of the other builders working in steel.

I'd recommend having a chat with these guys before committing to that kind of wait. They may be the same or far less, but at least you'll know.

http://www.kirkframeworks.com/

http://www.spectrum-cycles.com/index.htm

http://www.zanconato.com/price.htm

http://jonnycycles.com/

[BluesDawg]

Soooo, a question I could ask you guys and gals: With the Size 47-Atlantis having a reasonable Standover Height for me, what is the probability that the rest of this sized-frame's geometry could be adjusted by a LBS, to be a comfortable stock bike for a short person such as myself?

The fine folks at Rivendell would be very happy to discuss your fit issues in great detail. How their bikes fit their customers is a large part of their philosophy. Send them an email or give them a call. I think they would come up with a good recommendation for your requirements.

[Big Paulie]

Back in 2004 I was looking for a new road bike, and did a very complete seach of what was out there. At the time, Rivendell was just another bike company to me. I had no attraction to what TB refers to as "Rivendell's dogma." (Which isn't an exaggeration.)

Then, on a business trip that took me past the SF bay area, I stopped into Rivendell with no appointment and no expectations. I ended up spending three hours with Grant Peterson and riding over a dozen different bikes/setups. I liked him and his belief in his product, but I wasn't about to shell out over $2000 for those two reasons. But, the bikes I rode were really special. The balance between stability and sensitivity, weight and strength, cost and quality, were really obvious.

After I got back home, I rode a lot of bikes in shops, made a lot of calls and sent a lot of e-mails to custom builders...thinking that the Rivedell style of bike must not be that special. What I found was that, even working with steel, the word "custom" really meant what the builder believed in, not what I wanted. It seemed like everyone I talked to had "suggestions" for changing what I knew I wanted!

I ended up ordering a Rivendell Rambioulet, and got in inside of three weeks. Two years and 12000 miles later, I like it more than I did when I got it. It's the right bike FOR ME. The stock size fit me well enough that I could tweak the stem/bars/saddle to get a fit I doubt I could improve on with a custom bike.

And, the Rivendell dogma still holds no allure for me. I just love the bike, and have no interest in using Ukranian honey bee snot to hold my bar tape in place!!!

[Tom Bombadil]

If you followed the thread on me finding a more comfortable road bike, you would have read about my recent discovery of compact geometry road bikes. These have a sloping top tube. Up to trying a couple of these bikes, I had never found a comfortable road bike. Either I had to drop down to a 48cm frame to get enough standover clearance & find that the rest of the bike's geometry was too cramped for my upper torso, or I had to go with a 54cm frame that better fit my upper torso, but left be at around -2" of standover clearance.

But I have found that bikes like the Trek Pilot, several LeMond lines, Specialized Allez & Sequoia, Giant OCR and others, that use the sloping top tube, enable me to find bikes which have both a lowered standover height and better upper geometry.

Thus if I were going to have a custom bike built, I would opt for a compact geometry frame.

If the Size 47-Atlantis has a top tube that is too short or if the head is too low, then a LBS could attempt to remedy that by using a stem that compensates for the height and length issues. But that doesn't sound like the best way to go if one is shelling out big bucks for a custom/expensive frame. Before I paid a lot for a frame, I'd want to know if every aspect of that frame fit me.

[Tom Bombadil]

I understand that you are not allowed to die while on a waiting list.

That alone would be worth paying $2000-$3000 for.

[big john]

Are you thinking of 650 wheels? It makes sense in small frames like 47. What do I know, I ride a 64?
Some interesting stuff on sizing here:http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=255544&highlight=ti+frame+for+a+woman

[Louis]

Some one told me there is a newly completed section of the towpath south of Akron due to open this spring?

It's hard to keep up with, but they are making progress. I have an interest in the history attached to the towpath, but I'm primarily a roadie so I ride the towpath infrequently. There are still sections in Akron not completed. South of Barberton, you can pick it up at Vanderhoof Rd. and continue through Massillon before another interruption. I'm really not sure what section is due to open next.

[Tom Bombadil]

I'll have to check out the bike paths in that area. One of my daughters lives in Canton and I visit there once or twice a year.

[Motorad]

Are you thinking of 650 wheels? It makes sense in small frames like 47. What do I know, I ride a 64?
Some interesting stuff on sizing here:http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=255544&highlight=ti+frame+for+a+woman
Big John, wouldn't a 650 wheel be too big for the smallest (47) Atlantis frame? The Riv-folks just offer the stock Atlantis with 26" wheels for their 47- through 56-sized frames.

[big john]

Big John, wouldn't a 650 wheel be too big for the smallest (47) Atlantis frame? The Riv-folks just offer the stock Atlantis with 26" wheels for their 47- through 56-sized frames.
650 is the size I am familiar with for small frames, tires are available in narrow racing style. Here is a link:
http://www.freewebs.com/650b/ 650 is smaller than the normal road bike 700.
I just looked at the Rivendell site. Yikes! It is $2700 for the frameset. If that's what you want, fine, but there are a lot of cheaper, faster options.

[hoss10]

Motorad you are 2 hours and a bridge away from True North Custom Bikes www.truenorthcycles.com Waterloo Canada. Hugh Black owner and builder at True North is a Mechanical Engineer who will fit, design and build you a bike, in any material. With the exchange rate they are a good deal. Wait times seem to be about 3 -4 months. The only thing you would be missing (beside the wait) is the head badge.

[Brian_1]

I really enjoy the Rivendell Reader, it's quirky, informative, opinionated, and I can count on a few hearty laughs in every issue. I've owned a Rivendell and it was a nice riding bike. However, I am not beholden to lugs, wool, toe clips, threaded headsets, quill stems, Brooks saddles or coating my handlebar tape in shellac. Nothing against Rivendell, but I also like clipless pedals, Fizik saddles, Pearl Izumi clothing, bikes w/o lugs, and publications like Cycling Plus (glossy color, lots of ads nonwithstanding), Dirt Rag, and A to B. Besides Rivendell's offerings, there's the nice Kogswell, Heron, and Velo Orange (a plug for velo-orange.blogspot.com) frames that provide quality with a similar design philosophy to Grant Petersen's Rivendell steeds. Some extreme Rivendell devotees may say I've gone over to the dark side, but I just call it being open-minded.

I find that I favor powdercoat finishes (or non-painted frames: titanium) to enamel (and the resulting wabi-sabi patina from wear and tear). Yes, Joe Bell creates art in paint, but for that price I'll go powder and buy some more bike clothes. Powdercoat is durable than enamel and that's a good thing on a bicycle that gets bumped and scratched - even my old original deep-blue Dupont Imron Specialized Stumpjumper (which was stolen) scratched too easily. I don't believe Rivendell provides for a powdercoat option on their custom frames. I suspect Grant Petersen doesn't like powdercoating. Although I like supporting the smaller bike businesses, loyalty and common sense are not one and the same.

Does anyone know if Sheldon Brown's beard is still dyed reddish-orange? Now there's a fellow who knows how to think in the past, present, and future.

[Big Paulie]

A couple thoughts about Rivendell. They aren't meant to be contentious, just some thoughts...

The thing I liked about stock Rivendells is that I could ride a bike, then order the same thing and get it in a couple of weeks. Custom lugged steel frames would take a lot longer to get, cost more, and I would have no idea what I was getting...although I have no reason to doubt that a good builder wouldn't come up with a good bike. I just liked that I could spend my last dollar on a bike and know what I was getting.

I have no use for toe clips, leather seats, cloth bar wrap, and the like. My Rivendell is basically a current road bike with their frame.

The weight of a Rivendell is only apparent when I lift it up. Riding it gives me no clue that I'm on a 23 pound bike. I'm heavy and not a good climber, so the benefits of a lighter frame would be more noticable to a better climber. Also, the weight of my Rivendell is copasetic. The frame bends and flexes in a harmonious way. My Cannodale was pounds lighter, but had no soul. It was stiff, and that was that. No give or compliance. I'm faster on my Rivendell, and can knock out 2 unsupported, solo centuries a week, and have done so many times. It just eats up the road.

I also think that the Rivendell dogma does more to hurt them than help them. But, I genuinely believe that Grant Peterson is coming from 100% sincerity when he speaks.

[slvoid]

I understand that you are not allowed to die while on a waiting list.

It might be to people's advantage to perpetually be on the waiting list.

[slvoid]

Jonny cycles is around $2000 for a frame, starting, and a 12 mo. waiting period.

I know I wouldn't wait 2 years for any bike, 90 days is about my limit. And that's even pushing it.

There are many, many builders out there that can build you something that can adhere to Rivendell's dogma - there is nothing magic about an upright-riding heavy lugged steel bike with two-tone paint. It all depends on whether you want to have the additional benny of being able to say "I ride a Rivendell."

$2700 for frame and fork is additionally 50-100% more expensive than many of the other builders working in steel.

I'd recommend having a chat with these guys before committing to that kind of wait. They may be the same or far less, but at least you'll know.

http://www.kirkframeworks.com/

http://www.spectrum-cycles.com/index.htm

http://www.zanconato.com/price.htm

http://jonnycycles.com/

[CrossChain]

Here goes my widow's mite of wisdom:

I've followed Grant since the beginning when he bobbed to the surface after Bridgestone Bikes sank. I've bought many things from him and liked most of them. (My young son would use his beeswax as fake boogers to scare his sister...something not thought of in the Riv Reader.) I have no interest in eschewing modernity just for the sake of wearing a hair (make that wool) shirt. Nor do I want to ride a Homer Hilson bike, look like a seersucker homeless person searching for roadside cans, or read Hiawatha...all Rivendellian attributes...............but.............................

I've ridden a Riv Romulus for 3 years and very much appreciate it. Like BP, I don't ride it to the top of the hill to test my speed, but that little ice blue honey descends like it was on rails and carves like a gs ski on wide sweepers. Grant really got it right if you're looking for a "sport touring" bike-- which means a good fast paced, all day cruiser. Around 50 miles, my twitchy, bone shaking upright steel Specialized becomes a little more trying to ride....fun and step-on-it quick though it was for the first 40 or so.

Paying so much more for a custom, for me personally, would be paying a lot for a narrow margin of better performance that has an appeal to the eye and to the vanity more than to the butt or the legs.

I'd check out Kogswell or Heron for less expensive sport cruiser types.

[Road Fan]

Dear "slvoid",
This note is to inform you that you are in violation of the Articles of Deportment at Bicycle Forums, namely SubByLaw #231M, Paragraph 19, Entry 342, SubSlash CrossReferenced in Vol. 37, 14th Edition. To wit: Altering the rightful words of another member intentionally by design is punishable by having to post the word "titanium" a minimum of 20,000 times or until such malfeasance is deemed corrected.
Respectfully,
Joe Gardiner's Conscience.

Plus I thought we 50-plussers weren't supposed to be able visualize the word "titanium."

[Brian_1]

"Here goes my widow's mite of wisdom:"

Widow or widower Dave?

I'm grouped with the latter since 2001.

Reference for those looking for online help with loss & grieving: http://www.widownet.org/

[abqhudson]

I'm 69 and I'm not waiting two years for anything. Maybe they should have a "senior" queue and waiting period.

Jim

[Big Paulie]

They do!

[Motorad]

Thanks everyone. A most helpful discussion, that has helped me to find a quality stock bike. I may occasionally be dancing to the Christmas tune of "The Nutcracker", with my short PBH, but I'll deal with it. Thanks again for all your assistance, and I now will have a good hobby of retro-blinging my stock (not customed) Saluki, as well as riding it.

[Road Fan]

Thanks everyone for your replies. I cracked up with the first post from Louis, with his wait-response that even WC Fields couldn't do better. One thing I'm good at is patient, and I'll order a Custom-bike from Riv and do the wait. The main reason for wanting a Custom is my PBH (74 cm) is limiting me on what is available in a quality, non-custom, all-purpose roadie. But ... I'd like to go ahead and get a more quality bike (than my current stock Trek 730) in the meantime.

To BLSeVan's post, about what attracted me to Riv-bikes (in two bloody years from now):
* Comfort for an all-purpose Custom-fitted bike.
* Useful for commuting, general riding, and occasional trail.
* Now that I've been riding my Trek 730 for a while, I can see that I would prefer a more comfortable bike that is more road-specific.
* Wide range of tire sizes for each frame.

To CrossChain's first post: Having read everyone's comments to this message, I went back and checked the geometries of the non-custom frames: For my 29" PBH, here are the closest frames, and would like to hear everyone's feedback on whether their standover heights are acceptable for my PBH:
* Atlantis size 47: Standover = 71.2 cm = 28"
* Rambouillet size 50: Standover = 74.2 cm
* Saluki size 47: Standover = 73.5 cm

Soooo, a question I could ask you guys and gals: With the Size 47-Atlantis having a reasonable Standover Height for me, what is the probability that the rest of this sized-frame's geometry could be adjusted by a LBS, to be a comfortable stock bike for a short person such as myself?

'Rad, I can't really answer your question, but I think in and near Michigan you can find a few options taht are going to have much faster delivery.

First there's Doug Fattic, a very experienced frame builder in Niles, MI, 2.5 hours from Detroit. I have visited him and spoken to him at length, and I'm considering gettign a bike from him.

Second, there's True North Cycles, run by Hugh Black, in Waterloo, ON. Again the drive is about 2.5 hours. I'm considereing heading out there to check them out, and I could use a driving partner.

Interested? PM me.

Road Fan (Ann Arbor, MI)

[cyclezen]

There is another, very satisfying, option -- restore and ride a classic.

I'm not gonna knock any true believer and Rivendell is certainly as good a bike as any. Some are better constructed than others, some may 'fit' a rider better than others, some more pleasing to the personal 'eye' than others. Choices we all have.
I, like John, feel there are hundreds, prolly thousands of really fine older bikes, the very sources from which Rivendell admits to modelling from, just beggin to become some's regular 'ride' once again. Whether with modern livery, NOS or serviceable old stuff, the riding they off is second to none.
The bike Universe is, thankfully, like our own, expanding at lightspeed (not a shameless shill, just silly wordplay).