Road Cycling - Road group durability

I am trying to get my 12 year old to ride road bikes, and he has less coordination than most adults, so I would like to get him an STI, ergo, or bar end shifters, so he doen't have to reach down to the down tube. The entry level stuff is sora, or sora with no-name derailleurs. Is this stuff durable enough? At what point does the durability not increase, or even decrease as price goes up? How smooth are different level shifters? Is the smoothness of some groups more affected by the frame material (one LBS said that tiagra and aluminum were a problem while tiagra and steel worked just fine)?

Originally posted by FOG
Is the smoothness of some groups more affected by the frame material (one LBS said that tiagra and aluminum were a problem while tiagra and steel worked just fine)?

I haven't heard this one before... but maybe I'm just misinformed...

as for material, I'm willing to bet because he has never ridden road before he will probably not notice difference in frame materials, but it is likely that you will be able to buy a steel frame for less than aluminum. Also steel will probably last longer than al....

I'd look for a entry level bike from Giant, or Specialized with Tiagra or Sora parts, remember he may not keep with road riding as time goes on, so you may not want to fork out the big cash for a bike just yet. don't worry about clipless pedals as of yet either, they will take some time to get used to.. Finally make sure the bike fits him well, (even though he is growing) something uncomfortable will not see many miles... good luck searching

I'm thinking of adding another thread about bike fit and growing kids. We tried a bunch of sora equipped bikes and he likes the novarra forza in 55 cm, but I am thinking that we should try to get a slightly bigger bike because he is a seriously growing kid-5'9", 225 lbs, with a 12W shoe, up from 11W this past fall.

Holey smokes!!!
It sounds to me that he'll never be able to ride a bike now, that will fit him in a couple years.
5-9, 225, size 12 feet. At 12 years old?!!
It seems he is gonna be one BIG dude.

Originally posted by FOG
The entry level stuff is sora, or sora with no-name derailleurs. Is this stuff durable enough?

For your 12 year old kid I think it's durable enough. Donna rides Sora components on her K2 and has been happy with them. She's put over 400 miles on the bike so far and we've had to make adjustments once. Another possible good thing about Sora is the shifters may be easier for him to use. They use thumb shifters mounted on the side of the hood instead of the all in one shifters like Tiagra, 105, etc.


(one LBS said that tiagra and aluminum were a problem while tiagra and steel worked just fine)?

This is news to me. I have Tiagra on my K2 aluminum frame and it works just fine and I've put over 950 miles on the bike as of today.

Zack

My friend has a Lemond with Sora, rides it 10 miles to school every day, rode a century and some charity rides so far, and says he hasn't had any problems with the Sora stuff.

When I started mountain biking I got a decent entry level bike with STX components, and they lasted 6 years of heavy use.

Sora will work just fine. However if you can bump it to 105 or Campy Veloce it may be better as parts are a bit lighter and metals are nicer. Either way the lower priced parts do the job just like the higher priced parts.

If buying a complete bike, look at the frame. Buy a good quality frame. People always replace parts later on.

I'm happy with my Sora group on my Trek 1000 (another entry level road bike you might consider). It's much maligned, but having never ridden on a bike equipped with something better, well, ignorance is bliss.

5'9" on a 55 cm frame? Seems about right for now. I'm 5'7" on a 56 cm frame and I think another inch shorter and I'd need the next size down. But I am a woman, so I'm probably comparing apples and oranges.

Have you looked at possibly a used bike for now and then upgrading when he seems to be at a stable size?

I agree you might look at a used bike, considering how he is growing. It probably will only fit him a year or two. One option that might work well get a lower end bike like the Trek 1000, have the LBS upgrade to 105 or veloce group should not be that much, and say for example when he is 14 and 6'2" just buy a new frame. One thing you might look at is how tall you and y ou're wife are will he keep growing this way? I know I was 5'7" when I was 13 and never grew after that :)

I thought about used bikes- in fact I have a bianhi road bike that would fit him, but it has down tube shifters, and he is really hesitant about moving his hands to the down tube. In a peculair way the newest equipment in many areas is really the best for a novice. I will spend a great deal of time looking at bikes, and trying to fit him, so the price differences start becoming less important than finding a good fit and good equipment. A sora equipped bike might cost me between $400 and $500 new. Messing around trying to get just the right used bike could easily cost me 20 hours and save me less than $200. Not a good deal. The value of my time is why I no longer am anxious to upgrade bikes. maybe my son will learn a little about how to use my tools, and then he can do the upgrading.

As to my estimate of how big he'll get- I am 6'2" and only have a size 11 foot, although those were my dimensions when I was 12. I think he has a lot more growing to do, and I would look for 6'4"- 6'5" out of him. One thing is for sure- if he is between sizes, I will definitely opt for the larger size.

Another factor is that he has a younger (10 year old), and apparently smaller brother, to whom I might pass down some bike stuff, assuming he ever learns to ride a bike. He certainly has the balance, he can ride quite a distance without falling, but also without ever controlling the direction of the bike. Maybe that belongs in another thread also.

All the new stuff works well, the benchmark for dependability is the ultegra group although I find the dura-ace chain to be more rugged. I also find the dura-ace STI's to be slightly more precise.

Hi FOG
I have ridden a Sora equipped bike for about 2.5 years, putting about 6000 miles on the first chain & casette. This was a combination of weekend rides and commuting in all weathers. So long as the shifter system is properly set up, it doesn't give any problems. It continues to work well for me and is durable. You might want to check if your son can operate the STI shifter system OK as I have read complaints from folks with small hands.
I have one pet-hate, that the Sora hubs are not well sealed - riding in wet weather soon results in destruction of the bearings. I guess this might be less of a concern to your son's case as he'll probably want to stay out of the rain :)

Good luck - I hope he gets the road bug

Cheers,

Ed

Well I am a complete newbie who has a little different take on the whole Sora issue. This is the only road bike I have ever ridden more than 100 feet. I was always scared stiff with the Sora brake calipers, never did stop worth a dang. Last week I had the LBS install a new set of Ultegra calipers and whoa! I can stop almost on a dime now. My biggest problem is making sure I dont stop too fast :-)

This is on a brand new Trek 1000 I bought. I have also been having problems with the front derailer and now have an Ultegra derailer on order. Rear derailer and STIs seem to work fine, no problems. Front derailer works when it wants to, most of the time just fine, but I can not stand trying to downshift for this big hill in front of me and the stupid thing will NOT downshift! (picture person on bike unclipping right foot and kicking the snot outta his derailer, not really, but I WANT to!)

Allan

The problems you are having with the sora equipment are purely tuning issues, I've been a bike tech for years and the one thing I've learned is, Shimano stuff works and works well, but it has to be properly set up and tuned. If the shop that you bought the bike from is telling you that the components are your problem, you may want to find a new shop. The ultegra brake calipers that you bought are about as good as it gets but, the sora calipers have the same mechanical advantage as the ultegra. Stopping power comes from the pad, the ultegra pads are softer and therfore stop you better. Ultegra pads on sora calipers will do the same job for you and only cost about $8.00 a set. The front derailure problem you are having is purely a tuning issue. the front derailure on a bike is really the most stupid part on the bike, all of them work, some are lighter then others, but they all work. I think you need to find a good bike shop in your area and tell them your story, if they are a bike shop run by true cyclist, they will help you and will save you money. One thing to consider, the sora system is an 8 speed system, although the components from the 9 speed groups will work on an 8 speed system, the clearances are larger on the 8 speed stuff, the 9 speed chain is narrower than the 8 speed chain, the front derailure cage is a tad wider to allow room for the 8 speed chain to run rub free no matter what cassette cog you are in on the rear. When you install the ultegra front derailure, you will rub the chain cage on the front when you are on any one of the 3 inner cogs on the rear. One thing that I do to help with the tuning on a system like yours is to also run a 9 speed chain, it will work and work well, it will improve shifting accross the whole range but, as I said earlier, more money that you don't need to spend. There are two major differences between the sora group and the upper end 9 speed groups, weight and the fact that you can't shift both up and down from the drops which only matters if you race the bike. Again, have someone else look at the set up and tune your bike, a 30 dollar tune up will cost you far less than needless upgrades.
Good luck, be sure to post your outcome.

Can I just say, it's SO nice to hear nice (or at least not negative) things being said about Sora components. Honestly, when I was shopping for a bike and reading "Sora sucks this, sora sucks that", I had visions of riding down the road with parts falling off my bike. :eek:

I'm happy to say that nothing has fallen off my bike yet.

Well, except for me, but that's my fault.

You say you have a bianchi that would fit your son. Why not spend the $400-500 and upgrade it to a complete 105, veloce group with STI shifters? Then if he outgrows it just go purchase a new frame and move everything across? Just buy the whole group from your LBS and they should give you a good deal on upgrading the bike and the group. This will give him a good bike, with a good group and STI shifting that will last him for many many years.

The problems you are having with the sora equipment are purely tuning issues, I've been a bike tech for years and the one thing I've learned is, Shimano stuff works and works well, but it has to be properly set up and tuned.

I would agree with you, except that every time I leave the bike shop the front derailer shifts like a champ. Weeks later it sometimes shifts great, sometimes shifts like garbage. I would think that if it were not adjusted then it would either shift good or bad, but not a combination of both.

As for the calipers, all I care about is that it did not stop worth a flip, and now it does.

As for the local bike shop I use, they always have a good answer for any question I ask, I get discounts from them that are competitive with what I see online, except the LBS installs and adjusts the components for free. And any time I come in they make time for whatever I need done. As a matter of fact they recommended that I not put on a Ultegra front derailer but they said in all honestly that it will shift better if I do. They think it is spending too much money on a lower end bike that should work well for what I need.

Anyway, the facts are I bought Sora components, had problems with them, replaced them with Ultegra and my problems went away. No matter the cause, I now dislike Sora and love Ultegra. So I guess I am bound to become one of the despised Sora bashers :-)

Allan

PS. Besides I get really great deals there, $40 for the front derailer installed with free adjustments! (I know nothing about installing or adjusting so this is some serious value for me!)

One of my bikes has Sora levers, Tiagra cranks and FD, LX RD, SRAM chain, and a house-brand Performance cassette. It shifts great and I really like the levers. This is my main commuter, especially for bad weather, and for this sort of bike, where shifting from the drops is of little importance, the Sora levers are quite nice and if anything easier to shift from the hoods than other STI levers. They're easy to use when wearing thick winter gloves.

My other bikes have 105 or Ultegra/XTR drivetrains. I really can't say that of these three bikes any one of them require more or less attention or adjustment than the others. The differences in bike setup and gear ratios, frame design and load, have a lot more bearing on the experience of riding these bikes than the grade of the components.

The only bike on which I've ever had problems with FD adjustments actually turned out to have a poorly installed cable. When I found and fixed the problem the FD was stable from then on.

RichC

Originally posted by Kev
You say you have a bianchi that would fit your son. Why not spend the $400-500 and upgrade it to a complete 105, veloce group with STI shifters? Then if he outgrows it just go purchase a new frame and move everything across? Just buy the whole group from your LBS and they should give you a good deal on upgrading the bike and the group. This will give him a good bike, with a good group and STI shifting that will last him for many many years.

The bike is a bianchi strada, (circa 1985+-) with 27 inch wheels, and the frame is not that great. I think the effort in upgrading it would not pay off. My inclination is that the bianchi should be one of my kids' beater bike when college time comes.

There are definitely some interesting buys at bikeswholesale.com, bikesdirect.com and supergo(especially with a coupon), many of which come in under $700 (e.g. mercier, motobecane, fuji, scattante, tomasso, and supergo's leftovers of various sorts). I think it makes more sense to buy a mostly assembeld $700 bike than a $500 group. I am still considering the novarra, which goes on sale (members only) may 16.

I don't think the bike will last him that many years, but at that size he could pass it on to me, his older sister, who seems to have stopped growing at 14 years old and a mere 5'10", but with the same inseam as I have, or to his younger brother, who is now only 10, but who most likely will get to be at least as tall as the 12 year old. clearly it makes sense to get a quality bicycle, not less than sora, not more than 105. Campy fans take no offense- I jsut don't see enough adds to understand their product line as well.

Meanwhile, I haven't enough time to thank you, and all of the wonderful folks who have responded to this post. THANKS to all.

Originally posted by ChipRGW
Holey smokes!!!
It sounds to me that he'll never be able to ride a bike now, that will fit him in a couple years.
5-9, 225, size 12 feet. At 12 years old?!!
It seems he is gonna be one BIG dude.

:lol:

Hi Fog , what are you feeding your kids on !! My boy is tall like yours , because of their quick growth they do tend to be unco-ordinated & clumsy ,if we were to add an exra bit of lenght on our arms & legs every couple of weeks we`d be clumsy too;) My boys 22 now ! 6' 4' :eek:
My road bike (old) is equiped with Exage Action group- set, wich would have been the same level as Sora then ???. It must have done a zillion miles & they still change gears like a Swiss watch,( with a little adjustment now & again :rolleyes: ) But remember with kids ,it has to look good or they won't use it!

Well Allan, your inconsistant shifting issue sounds like a cable problem to me, But, as you stated what's done is done, enjoy the new ultegra, One more thing, you said the shop always gives you good recommendations and deals, I think they're doing a great job.. Think about it, you keep going back there and giving them money. In my shop, if you purchase a decent bike and have component problems when it's new, it WILL be corrected at NO charge. Even if it means replacing faulty components, The cost and warrenty issues will then be taken up with the bike manufacturer and not the customer. Shop policy, We don't replace good parts just to replace parts. Sell the customer what they want not what you want to sell them. Any new bike discrepancies will be corrected at no charge to the customer. We ride what we sell therefore we can speak wth authority about the product..

fwiw- I got my son a Schwinn World Sport '01 leftover from performance bikes in Gaitersburg, MD. It has an aluminum compact frame (got him the large) with adjustable stem, like the giant bikes use. I'm not sure what the fork is, but it sounds like aluminum. the bike was $377, so I can afford the next round of bikes when the time comes. The really bad news is that we stopped in Mt. Airy Cycles and he seems to have developed a taste for recumbents- many of which are quite capable of denting the wallet. I will let him show me that he can acquire road biking skills first. The Scwinn should serve that purpose. Again, thanks to all of you who offered advice.