Folding Bikes - Raleigh 20 for the taller man....

So.....I snapped up a really nice condition Raleigh 20 for £20. I want this to be useable to the station, and then from the station to wherever at the other end, mostly city riding. So, first off, I need to mod it for a man of my size. I'm 6'3, so I reckon I'll need a longer seatpost, and some type of bar modifications, and I want to do it cheaply. I liked the idea of the guy with the sleeved seatpost and the ape-hangers, looks like a quick easy fix. What other suggestions do we have?

In the medium term, I want to put on a cotterless crankset, and some lighter rims, suitable for highish pressure tyres. They don't have to be super hi-zoot wheels, but I won't want to run 40 psi when I'm charging through london. I reckon platform pedals and powergrips are my friends, since I don't want to carry extra shoes, and long term, an Ortlieb rack briefcase, but those cost 5 times what I paid for the bike. Short term, I've got a pannier mounting office bag thing, and I guess I'll want a bar bag at the front, for map carriage. Ideas, please?


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=017&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&viewitem=&item=270090784236&rd=1&rd=1

Those look like the 451 rims, you can probably put some Comet Primos or other hi pressure tires in this size on the existing rims and get them up to 75-80 psi. You should also be able to mount some inexpensive BMX pedals that will grip any shoes and keep your feet from slipping. Kool Stop brake pads will improve the braking performance.

My 20 takes standard mountain bike diameter seatposts, so the options are limitless. An aluminum longer seatpost good for approx 36" or 37" inch inseam was $25cdn.

Standard threaded stems fit. For these you can get 6" extenders. Now any 25.4mm bars fit, so you can get comfort bike risers, racing drops, bullhorns, flat bars, you name it.

You can get 451 rims with 28, 32, or 36 spokes at aebike.com from 20 USD to 30 USD with eyelets for spoke niples. Go for tyres Schalbe stelvio 451 mm x 28 mm they can take 120 psi. Shimano flat pedals for BMX will be enough to grab your shoes. There are different brands that offer seatposts 400 mm for 28.6 mm. It should be enough for someone with your height.

Sammyboy,

I know this is a US based company, but check this out:

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=126&subcategory=1202&brand=&sku=17296&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=Shop%20by%20Subcat%3A%20MTB%20Wheels%20%2D%20Rear

I second the use of a standard aluminum seatpost. You can easily find a 500mm seatpost. If this is too short, you can then start looking for other fixes.

Juan

Damn, I only want to :crash: But these wheels are almost at the same price of the 451 mm Answer rim that I bought ! Juan, next time get me a company that sends these wheels world wide ! Do they have also the front wheel?

Damn, that's cheap for that wheel! I have a BF buddy who can send me such things (Nashbar charges your entire soul for transatlantic shipping). +1 on the Havetheygotthefrontwheel?

The bit I'm looking forward to the least is choosing a hack to sort out the BB......

I'm 6'3" also.

Here are the mods I did. (http://home.att.net/~jfgorham/twenty_country.htm)

I recently put the original fenders back on, and chopped and flopped the drop bars. It gives a little more height, and I never used the drops anyway. The most recent pic is here. (http://empathytest.blogspot.com/2007/02/croisire-de-boissons-alcoolises.html)

Well, that gives me hope that a readily available seatpost will do the job. I'm unsure what I want to do wheel-wise. I think I want the SA 3 speed, rather than go to a derailleur, so maybe my best bet is just some BMX rims.

That Nashbar wheel looks like a good deal but it's only a 24 spoke wheel. I've been breaking spokes on my 28 spoke 451 rear wheel and I'd be looking to go to a higher spoke count, not a lower one. Plus I'd be interested to know how most SA 3-spd hubs are drilled; I've seen 28s, 32s and 40s and assume they probably produced 36s as well. My ideal wheel would be a 20 x 1-3/8 (451) in 32 hole, but I'm not seeing that size readily available (currently only available in 1-1/8 width).

edit: Looking a bit harder, I found some Alex DA22 20 x 22 mm 32 hole 451 rims at Gearlan Custom Cycles for US$24.95 and some sun CR-18 20 x 1-3/8 32 hole 451 rims at Alfred E. Bike for US$22.99. I'm not sure I'd like the look of the Alex aero rims on my vintage Raleigh 20.

Ooh ooh Let me have a pair of these please!
(see how they match the paint on your new steed!)



Darn cool 451 wheels at Aebike (http://aebike.com/page.cfm?PageID=30&action=details&sku=WE2541)

Re your seatpost - I had to fit a shim on my UK Twenty but that opened up the choice of posts enormously—which is good considering the amount I've had stolen. Currently got a nice carbon affair that goes long enough for little me at 5'5".

I don't think low spoke count wheels are wise on me, I'm a natural clydesdale! Furthermore, it looks like all the wheels posted so far are single-speed only, which is not really what I want. I want to stick with a hub gear, either the existing SA, or later perhaps a 7 speed with a hub brake.

Get some Rhinolite rims from Sun Ringle. They are very strong - see the reviews at mtbr.com. I have such a rim on the back wheel with the 8 speed SA hub. A real touring beast.

There are different brands that offer seatposts 400 mm for 28.6 mm. It should be enough for someone with your height.

Hold on, it takes a 28.6 mm seatpost? That's a decidedly odd size, if you don't mind my saying so!

Wiggle do a System EX Seatpost in the 28.6 size - 400mm, for about £12, but that may/may not be long enough!

My R20 also has an 8 speed S/A xrf hub,(Sheldon's idea!!), laced into 36 spoke Velocity Aero rims with Schwalbe Stevlios. They seem to be quite strong and as I can also can mount front and rear panniers for touring/shopping they need to be.
Can anyone tell me what they're done with the bottom bracket?
Phil's cost an arm and a leg.

If the rims were 406 instead of 451 the whole world of bmx tires would open up to you.I fitted 20 inch by 2.10 inch bmx tires to my BF metro last night cost was about 28 dollars on sale with tax. They are inflatable to 120 psi and should offer some serious suspension effect.:eek:

Ooh ooh Let me have a pair of these please!
(see how they match the paint on your new steed!)



Darn cool 451 wheels at Aebike (http://aebike.com/page.cfm?PageID=30&action=details&sku=WE2541)

Re your seatpost - I had to fit a shim on my UK Twenty but that opened up the choice of posts enormously—which is good considering the amount I've had stolen. Currently got a nice carbon affair that goes long enough for little me at 5'5".

I am also little and light and I am also willing to accept a pair of these from a sponsor :D :p

Hi. I recently bought a Twenty and working on various tweeks and upgrades. Maybe some of my running into's can help, maybe not. I bought a 400mm Kalloy seatpost it is cheap but works well and gives the height I need ( I'm 6'0 ). My Twenty is equiped with 451 wheels. I decided to go with 406 wheels due to the number of choices in both rims and tires. I bought 406 wheels, Alex DM24 wheels for less than $50.00 on Amazon. They are built up already but I will replace the rear hub with a 3 speed Sturmey Archer AW or maybe AWC? Nashbar has Maxxis Hookworms for $10.00 in there latest sale. I like the hookworms due to their high pressure and tread design. I still need to find an inexpensive 406 fork with a long steerer tube so I can switch over to a real headset. I did find a new 10" stem for cheap also. With the right handlebars I think I will be fine size wise. I find all the Twenty info on the web a great help and any of you that have Twenty websites- thank you! If I have not used your ideas it has helped with my own.

re: bottom bracket: I wish i had done this myself...from http://www.rhizomes.nl/twenty.html (an excellent step by step guide)

Philipsen recommended installing a BSA *** Bracket with standard 24 TPI threading and a 137 mm axle. He knew from experience that the bracket would go in just fine and that the plastic threading of the shells might be mangled a bit (it is only 2 turns of threading per inch difference after all) but my bikes metal threading would be just fine (meaning that in the future i could always install other brackets, even with 'proper' threading if desired). Not the most elegant solution. But importantly the end result was a cheap (way cheaper than most alternatives) durable bracket replacement that feels very stable and smooth.

Thanks for that, now all I have to do is find a bike shop in Oz who stocks *** BB's or at least one who is half interested and doesn't look at me like I'm a loony when I say "Raleigh 20".

stevegor,

I don't know about how easy it will be to find the *** BB, but the shop won't be that hard. There's always an LBS guy that loves interesting projects. You'd be surprised. The LBS guy I went to mostly sells high end stuff, but loved the challenge of making things work for me on my Twenty,

Good luck,

Juan

And what about YSM bottom brackets?


http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/bottombrackets.html#yst

Are they any good for the R20?

If you're going to modify your bottom bracket, I would suggest simply having it rethreaded to a standart TPI. Others on this site doubt the strength and reliability of such a procedure in the long run, but my LBS has been doing it for 25+ years without any failures in the bottom brackets that he has rethreaded...and he has rethreaded quite a few. I opted for rethreading and now I can use any standard BB I chose,

Juan

Juan

Have you also resized the bottom bracket from 76 mm to 73 mm?

Nope, it's the still 76mm, but it's not a problem. If you check out Sheldon Brown's bike glossary under bottom bracket, you will see that it works fine and that the only thing you need to change is the threading.

Juan

Juan,

Unfortunately my LBS's (bar one, an old family business) ARE NOT interested, now that I'm not racing and don't buy expensive Italian bikes, I'm more of a nuisance or embarrassment to them, I think. But you guys on these forums are a great help, MANY THANKS.

I still need to find an inexpensive 406 fork with a long steerer tube so I can switch over to a real headset.

I replaced the original crummy headset with a 1" aheadset --yes, it's for threadless forks-- that I got on Ebay, amazingly cheap. I used the Aheadset cups and cones together with the Raleigh top nut and the stem QR; I set the adjustment by turning the top nut with the QR loose; when it seems just about right, I close the QR and tighten the top nut of the headset against it to lock the adjustment.
I have had no trouble with this, but I haven't ridden it very far yet, less than a couple hundred miles so far.

Has anyone else done that? any problems I should be on the lookout for?

I've been trying to find a 406 for with a long enough steerer tube also. I can't find anything with a 8 1/2" steerer which I think is the minimum length needed. Can anyone point to where these can be found? I don't care if it is a threaded steerer or not. I am at the point of considering cutting down another fork and brazing dropouts on.

I can get you one of these forks, but my shop is in Israel. The price for the fork is about 12-14 USD. Probably we may do some arranjement to gat the for into your hands.

Thanks for the offer but I will try to locate one in the US. Hopefully close to home.

Hold on, it takes a 28.6 mm seatpost? That's a decidedly odd size, if you don't mind my saying so!

By now you should have memorised Sheldon Brown's Raleigh Twenty page.

Twentys are designed to take a 1 1/8" seat post, and come with a heavy steel one, which may not be long enough for taller riders. Since I'm long-legged, I used to have to extend the stock seatpost by attaching a smaller seatpost to the top of it, but now, thanks to mountain bikes, and "oversized" designs, suitable modern aluminum seatposts are available from stock for a reasonable price, in the 28.6 mm diameter.

After reading Sheldon's info and others on this forum, I would like to know:-

Q1: Has anyone actually used a Phil b.b. with the 26tpi Phil cups, if so, which one?
Serial No., length of spindle? etc
Q2: Has anyone used a Shimano UN72 bb with 26tpi cups? Length of spindle?
Q3: If you have rethreaded the bb shell to 24tpi, what bb did you use?

(I have the S/A 8 speed hub)

Stevegor

Q3: If you have rethreaded the bb shell to 24tpi, what bb did you use?I got the BB rethreaded and used an old UN-something-or-other (72? 73?). Once you get it rethreaded the world is your oyster.

After reading Sheldon's info and others on this forum, I would like to know:-
Q2: Has anyone used a Shimano UN72 bb with 26tpi cups? Length of spindle?
Stevegor

Me! Me!
I think my spindle was 114mm? 115? Does that sound right - it was a while ago now so I might be wrong. It fitted nicely though and I got a good chainline off the bat with my spectro seven and tiagra cranks.

If you go the un72 route (take note - they are getting harder and harder to find) , make sure you get the longer one. I would tell you what I am using now, but when I had my LBS rethread, I simply had him put in whatever BB would work and completely forgot to ask him what the length is. I'll ask him when I go to the LBS,

Juan

My opinion.
Don't touch the bb. Just get a longer seat post ( 40-50cm) and a new seat (I guess yours will have a double rail). Then ride it for a couple of months. You can spend months and hundreds of bucks 'modding' it...and the end ride will only be marginally better than the original setup. Everything factory is balanced and works well, just the seat post is too short. Once the bike fits you, and if you have a 3 speed hub, you have a perfectly good folding bike.

Having read Sheldon's article about "drop bolts" for his R20, so he could attach a modern caliper brake to the rear, what does everyone think about that? AND your opinion on doing it for the front brakes. I know I would not be able to use my lovely fenders, but that's what the wife's R20 is for......when it rains!!

That's almost my precise plan, too. Even the seatpost seems pretty much long enough on mine. I may replace pedals immediately, but only with ones I've already got, and the rest can wait, while I make up my mind.

Get 451 rims and then you can keep the original barkes, and the mudguards won't look stoopid as well.
As for the bb, there's got to be a pile of old 80's Raleighs that have a cotterless axle but use the Raleigh TPI. The least ammount of work the better, because like hi end audio gear, there's not a lot of jump for your cash the more specialised you want to go...ie the factory 20 ride is pretty similar to a fully modded 20...sure not as good, but is it really 800 sterling pounds better...you know what i mean???

I don't believe that Raleighs still had that threading in the 80's.

Get 451 rims and then you can keep the original barkes, and the mudguards won't look stoopid as well.
As for the bb, there's got to be a pile of old 80's Raleighs that have a cotterless axle but use the Raleigh TPI. The least ammount of work the better, because like hi end audio gear, there's not a lot of jump for your cash the more specialised you want to go...ie the factory 20 ride is pretty similar to a fully modded 20...sure not as good, but is it really 800 sterling pounds better...you know what i mean???


I've got modern, narrow, light and nice 451 rims and I'm using bmx brakes cos' the originals were not adequate to stop me, especially in the wet:eek: The bmx brakes could be better, that's why I'm thinking of Sheldon's idea of drop bolts rather than brazing on mounts for cantilevers or V-brakes. I know it might look a bit stupid and I really like the original guards......but when I'm needing to stop quickly because of RED lights I want to know I will stop!!
I've owned expensive road bikes, MTBs etc so I know what you mean by not throwing too much moola at the R20 as the ride will never match a modern bike, but it's fun to tinker and I have a nice set of 105 calipers and levers just sittin' there begging to be used.

Juan

Have you also resized the bottom bracket from 76 mm to 73 mm?


How would you do that? I've got a Specialized 7NL spindle which I'm about to try with the original cups.

Sheldon say's "can be made to work" but doesn't say how. Looks to me that the inner spacing between the bearing surfaces is about 3mm different. 76 -> 73 ?

I've got modern, narrow, light and nice 451 rims and I'm using bmx brakes cos' the originals were not adequate to stop me, especially in the wet:eek: The bmx brakes could be better, that's why I'm thinking of Sheldon's idea of drop bolts rather than brazing on mounts for cantilevers or V-brakes. I know it might look a bit stupid and I really like the original guards......but when I'm needing to stop quickly because of RED lights I want to know I will stop!!
I've owned expensive road bikes, MTBs etc so I know what you mean by not throwing too much moola at the R20 as the ride will never match a modern bike, but it's fun to tinker and I have a nice set of 105 calipers and levers just sittin' there begging to be used.

Dual pivot brakes with the same reach as BMX exist - Alesa makes one. I needed a better brake for a chopper I built my son, and the LBS had them. That was last year though, and that shop has closed down. Worth a search though - dual pivot calipers with big reach are out there.

Dual pivot brakes with the same reach as BMX exist - Alesa makes one. I needed a better brake for a chopper I built my son, and the LBS had them. That was last year though, and that shop has closed down. Worth a search though - dual pivot calipers with big reach are out there.


Thanks Sammyboy,
I think Shimano make a dual pivot long reach as well, but they cost an arm and a leg and if I remember correctly they're not long enough for the R20??, seeing I'm in Oz and you guys are way over there I still might do the drop bolt idea, if you can't see it...I won't be embarrassed.

Juan

Have you also resized the bottom bracket from 76 mm to 73 mm?


How is this done?

http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=97

ie the factory 20 ride is pretty similar to a fully modded 20...sure not as good, but is it really 800 sterling pounds better...you know what i mean???

I road my unmodified Twenty for a while before putting in about $500 worth of upgrades, for less than $700 total. I can tell you that it is probably $1000 better than the original ride. I have drops, 24 speeds, a smooth ride, and can stay up with roadies on my mod'ed Twenty. That last bit was a definite no no on the original Twenty. Now don't get me wrong, the original is a great bike, but if a person is willing to put in a little bit of elbow grease and a little bit of money, you can get an incredible ride! The only way for me to get a better ride would be to spend $1200+ on a Bike Friday or similar bike,

Juan

I road my unmodified Twenty for a while before putting in about $500 worth of upgrades, for less than $700 total. I can tell you that it is probably $1000 better than the original ride. I have drops, 24 speeds, a smooth ride, and can stay up with roadies on my mod'ed Twenty. That last bit was a definite no no on the original Twenty. Now don't get me wrong, the original is a great bike, but if a person is willing to put in a little bit of elbow grease and a little bit of money, you can get an incredible ride! The only way for me to get a better ride would be to spend $1200+ on a Bike Friday or similar bike,

Juan

Well, I have...
A '06/07 Specialized Allez 10spd Ultegra for bunch rides, which includes racing sections.
A lovely old, light-weight steel frame roadie, (with hearts cut out in the lugs, what is it?) for training rides
A Gitane xt equipped hardtail MTB for blasting in the Aussie bush and towing my BoB trailer
My beloved R20, 8 spd S/A, drops etc, for fun, touring and annoying racing mates.
A Speedwell 3 spd S/A it's a R20 lookalike for communting to work
Plus a few others, all in all I use them for whatever situation they suit.

I'm hoping that when I finish Phase 2 on my R20, that I can worry the "Weekend Warriors" on their carbon fibre, (plastic), overpriced bikes, just to prove a point ;)