Living Car Free - anyone live a "card-free" lifestyle?

That's wise. Though it's strange but if you anticipate getting a house, you will need to establish a credit history. That or save a lot!

Me, I had no credit problems till I got married. Now that I'm divorced, they are clearing up again.

Welcome to my world....

Almost cash free here. I tend to go through cash in a hurry. In three weeks I am 100% out of debt, only using debit card for most purchases. One house payment and one final cc payment.

Way to go!!!

Believe it or not, no. I've been late before and they waived the late fee. I've also been charged for something I didn't buy and without question they erased it from the bill. Believe what you want, they actually do these things. (Now it's not out of altruism. They make a lot of money from the stores as a percentage of every sale. So if you use cash, they lose money. If you use a credit card, even with them giving you cash back, they make money) Oh, and the price at grocery stores is the same if you use cash or credit card.

No it's not. They'll charge you a yearly fee (along with other goodies) and/or nail you with interest. They're all the same. Money lending is money lending from biblical times to today it hasn't changed, try to stay away from these sharks..they bite.

Any of you credit card free people ever try to rent a car with a wad of cash?

Yes that is a big problem. That's the only reason I have a cc. That and staying in hotels.
I hate that this is forced on you but I see now way out of that cunundrum...

Rent a car about twice a month to move big items and go long distence for stuff..

Hotel for the occasional vacation during the year...

Cheers..

No it's not. They'll charge you a yearly fee (along with other goodies) and/or nail you with interest. They're all the same. Money lending is money lending from biblical times to today it hasn't changed, try to stay away from these sharks..they bite.

It's a game, you can win if you stay on top of 'em.

Where are you from, 1973? No one pays bills through the mail anymore. That's why every bank has a website that you login to to pay your bills. Much faster, more secure, and saves you the envelope and stamp.

And they charge a fee for that privalage dude...

I remember 1973 and you could keep .50 cents in the bank and they'd pay you! of course it was next to nothing in interest but semi-anually you'd see a few cents interest in your bank passbook (yes, passbook).

Now they charge for everything, including the privilage of keeping your money! In 1973 you could keep track of money, your job, your family. Now they've complicated things (on purpose) to the point that all we do is pay..pay..pay, and feel good when they only thing we do have to pay are 'bank fees'.

Our standard of living has actually decreased since 1973, especially for the middle class.
In the 1970's we could go to movies, buy clothes, live comfortably and still save money. We could choose the lifestyle we wanted to live, allot of people now are being more and more forced to choose between owning a car or a paying rent or a mortgage..I feel really sorry for tomorrows kids 'cause it's getting worse.

yea..i wish at least we could live as well as we did in 1973...

It's a game, you can win if you stay on top of 'em.

Yea....just like at the casino.... :(

Where are you from, 1973? No one pays bills through the mail anymore. That's why every bank has a website that you login to to pay your bills. Much faster, more secure, and saves you the envelope and stamp.
And they charge a fee for that privalage dude...

I remember 1973 and you could keep .50 cents in the bank and they'd pay you! of course it was next to nothing in interest but semi-anually you'd see a few cents interest in your bank passbook (yes, passbook).

Now they charge for everything, including the privilage of keeping your money! In 1973 you could keep track of money, your job, your family. Now they've complicated things (on purpose) to the point that all we do is pay..pay..pay, and feel good when they only thing we do have to pay are 'bank fees'.

Maybe where you live, heywood. Not here, not a cent for that privilege. Maybe you should look somewhere else for news about banks and bill paying options besides the letter to the editor page of your local newspaper.

Credit cards are a tool. if used properly, they can improve your life. Kind of like a hammer. If you use it correctly, you can build a nice, effective shelter for yourself. If you use it wrong, your thumb will hurt like h@$$.
My wife and I charge as much as we can on the card. We also pay off all of the balance each month. The secret is to live with in your means and not try to keep up with the Joneses. Too many in America try to live far beyond their means and end up charging balances they can not pay off. For some reason, too many people define their personal worth by their possesions, not what they can offer to the world.

The secret is to live with in your means and not try to keep up with the Joneses. Too many in America try to live far beyond their means and end up charging balances they can not pay off.

A nice stereotype. but not backed up by statistics.

A lot of Americans end up going off the deep-end debt wise either paying medical bills or trying to make it through rough patches when they can find no other sources of money.

I'm a good example. I've always been pretty tight with money and very good at staying within my budget. When I got married, I was debt free, had money in the bank and good investments. How did I end up with 20K in Credit Card debt then? Trying to start a business when I could not find any jobs in the location that my wife chose to live, and then more later when she quit her job so we had no income at all. You know you are in trouble when you are paying rent and buying groceries with credit card money, but still you do it because its better than not paying rent or not eating. Yes, bills become a screaming agony.

Fortunately, since we split up I have been able to pay down all the debts and hopefully will be debt free by mid month. Bill paying has become the highlight of my month as I saw the debts slowly going down and down.

I see credit as a narrow mountain path. It may well get you where you need to go when there is no other way, but a small slip can create a huge tumble.

I rarely use cash at all. credit/debit cards are more convenient and safer and cheaper. If i lose a credit card nothing is lost just cancel it. they cant be stolen for the same reason. Its waaayy too easy for me to spend a wad of cash in my wallet, but credit cards seem more 'real' since its coming from my 'real money' in my bank account.

I never have to lose money in change. When I buy something for 1.59$, I pay 1.59$. not 2$ and get back some change i will either lose or keep in a jar for 6 years and not gain interest on it.

Also I cant pay my bills with cash, so more chance of paying them late. With a card I go online and pay them instantly, and they are never late (and no ive never been charged a fee for this).

My money is always working for me this way as well, its always in the bank until the last possible moment of when I need to spend it.

Money lending is money lending from biblical times to today it hasn't changed, try to stay away from these sharks..they bite.

Why not bite back?


Yea....just like at the casino.... :(

No, not like at a casino. When it comes to banking arrangements everything is spelled out in black and white. If you play by the rules you're guaranteed to win.

Why not bite back?



No, not like at a casino. When it comes to banking arrangements everything is spelled out in black and white. If you play by the rules you're guaranteed to win.

I know there are options, such as credit unions and online banks that don't charge fees (outside of internet access fees/transfer fees/looking sideways fees...grrrr!) Try to do online banking for free at your local libarary..

Sorry for the rants I just hate getting taken for a ride. The US seems to offer more than Canada in the way of banking options...probably due to better competition/population...

Cheers... :)

I use a debit card because it is easy to use, necessary in some cases (hotel reservations, online purchases, etc.), and is safer than carrying cash.

Having lost a friend to some thugs who killed her after kidnapping her in a mall parking lot and taking her debit card and pin number, I'm not sure I can agree with that.

You call it "romanticizing/advocating being an ignorant hillbilly," others on this list have been calling it romanticizing/advocating the "simple life" since almost day one of this list. Go back and do a search of the topics and discussion on this list. One thing for sure, such lifestyle topics have little or nothing to do with bicycling.
And you love it. About 90 % of your posts are totally unrelated to cycling. Ant the tin hat joke is getting a little stale. Most paranoids I know have started rubbing toothpaste on their heads. Colgate Total is best, I understand.

I don't understand the fear of credit cards. There is no cost associated with it as long as you pay it off on time. I also don't understand people who can't help themselves from buying more than they can pay off. Why are they so dumb? I mean, you'd have to be pretty dimwitted to think "Hmmm, I can't afford this, but I'll just buy it anyways and hope that in a month when my credit card bill arrives, the money to pay the bill will magically fall into my hands." That's how a 10 year old would reason, not an adult.

I agree that it is possible for consumers to win the credit card "game" if they're smart. Unfortunately, the cc companies aand banks make money because people are dumb, and apparently getting dumber. As a nation, we've had negative savings or the past two years. Prior to that, national consumer savings had never been in negative numbers. Here's what a personal finance website, the Motley Fool (http://www.fool.com/ccc/secrets/secrets01.htm), has to say about the current credit problems:


A long time ago, we were a nation of cash-rich, house-poor people. Then, we became house rich and cash poor. Today, we're a nation that's credit dependent and cash broke.

That's right: Broke. Completely bust. According to a BusinessWeek report, total household debt -- including car loans, mortgage, and student loans -- topped 100% of disposable annual income last year for the first time ever. Contrast that to 20 years ago when the nation's debt stood at just two-thirds of our disposable income.

On average, we carry eight cards per person and have a balance of $8,400 in credit card debt. Twenty percent of our cards are maxed out, reports CardWeb.com, which tracks the lending industry's machinations. And just 40% of Americans pay off their accounts in full at the end of the month. The average line of credit is around $3,500. (A decade ago it was just $1,800.) The average household pays their lender $1,000 a year in finance charges. That might not sound like much, but consider that the amount of interest we paid as a nation last year alone could have purchased the entire inventory of 5,000 Jaguar dealerships. Or a 2,000-year endorsement deal with Tiger Woods. Or IBM, the entire company, with $55 billion to spare.

The Motley Fool (http://www.fool.com/ccc/secrets/secrets01.htm)

no. living card free is a huge mistake, especially on that day you want to make a big purchase like a car or house.

no credit history = you're screwed.

get a credit card, buy a couple small things with it, pay your balance off every month and you're golden.

when you begin to live outside your means (ehhh...i don't have enough money for this TV right now, i'll just put it on my card) is when people get into trouble.

And you love it. About 90 % of your posts are totally unrelated to cycling. Ant the tin hat joke is getting a little stale.
Oh, I see, better stay on cycling topics; like this thread, eh? What is stale is the tin foil hat derived generalizations and stereotypes constantly bandied about on this thread (and list) about all those other guys who are so dumb and not of the right moral stuff like the simple lifestyle aesthetes, hermits and hillbillies.

A nice stereotype. but not backed up by statistics.




I wrote what I wrote from watching how others live. Does that mean I believe everyone is trying to live too expensively? No. But I see way too many people making $30K or so / year and trying to buy a BMW or other expensive nick nack. The average house built these days is way more than needed for a family to live in.

I'm sorry to hear about your difficulties, but it does not negate what I said.

Oh, I see, better stay on cycling topics; like this thread, eh? What is stale is the tin foil hat derived generalizations and stereotypes constantly bandied about on this thread (and list) about all those other guys who are so dumb and not of the right moral stuff like the simple lifestyle aesthetes, hermits and hillbillies.
I don't care if you stay on topic or not. But since you never do, don't complain when others don't either.

Ant the tin hat joke is getting a little stale. Most paranoids I know have started rubbing toothpaste on their heads. Colgate Total is best, I understand.
Roody, I worked in anti-terrorism during the Reagan administration, those people really did have the nuttiest ideas about what groups pose a threat to national interests. The film Fahrenheit 911 profiled a group of middleaged peaceniks who the Bush government considered a threat right? Well I sat through meetings where we were told that even less political groups needed targeting. The point for car free people is if you live in a place where car free is odd and your data trail isn't normal either, you can get homeland security's attention even when you're patriotic and law abiding. Especially if, like the people in the movie you organize and try to change things.

Back when I applied for my first security clearance it got held up because my data trail wasn't normal. Maybe they had to do more interviews. Judging from the focus of the questions that a friend reported, they were suspicious that I had an illegal source of income. I had no credit history, no checking account, no phone and had traveled out of the country without a passport and my decalred income was below the poverty level. They couldn't comprehend a frugal lifestyle until they talked with people who knew me.

I don't care if you stay on topic or not. But since you never do, don't complain when others don't either.
Are you feeling alright? You are the one jumping into this thread whining about OT posts and subjects, not me.

no. living card free is a huge mistake, especially on that day you want to make a big purchase like a car or house.

no credit history = you're screwed.

get a credit card, buy a couple small things with it, pay your balance off every month and you're golden.

when you begin to live outside your means (ehhh...i don't have enough money for this TV right now, i'll just put it on my card) is when people get into trouble.

Unfortunately, most people do the "live outside your means thing" anyway.

I don't live "card-free," (credit history needed to buy a house, etc.) but I pay off my credit cards every month, so I guess the companies would consider me to be a "dead-beat" customer, since they can only make money off of the 5% service charge to businesses that take my cards. In any case, doing it for 5 years has allowed me to build up good credit. I wonder how long it takes 'til it gets to "excellent" level?

Roody, I worked in anti-terrorism during the Reagan administration, those people really did have the nuttiest ideas about what groups pose a threat to national interests.

Yes, back then, my brother was very involved in the "Society for Creative Anachronism", they try to recreate the best parts of the middle ages.

Word was out that they were on those lists. Why? Because they supported monarchy and were constantly doing military training... with suits of armor and rattan swords. Sounds like a danger to America to me.

http://starbulletin.com/2004/06/18/features/art6cover.jpghttp://www.yellow-springs.k12.oh.us/ys-mls/Medieval%20Festival%20SCA10%204-06.jpg
http://stovebend.us/isu/veisha/catapult_small.jpg

I'm 100% card free. Never had a credit card, never going to get one. Don't even have a bank account. I pay with cash or I don't pay.

I used to have a debit card, but it's too easy to waste money, since it's not actual money, but numbers in some computer somewhere. I would swipe my debit card everywhere just at random, then suddenly "Hey! Where did the $200 I made last week go?!" I had to stop that lifestyle, so I did. I never carry more than $20 in my wallet anywhere I go either. It's a lot harder to stop that impulsive life when you can't afford it.


So what... all your money is stuffed inside your mattress or something?

I'm all about trying to minimize my purchases, but I'd really hate giving up my debit card.

Unfortunately, most people do the "live outside your means thing" anyway.

I don't live "card-free," (credit history needed to buy a house, etc.) but I pay off my credit cards every month, so I guess the companies would consider me to be a "dead-beat" customer, since they can only make money off of the 5% service charge to businesses that take my cards. In any case, doing it for 5 years has allowed me to build up good credit. I wonder how long it takes 'til it gets to "excellent" level?

Yea, housing and automobile expenses alone put most people beyond their means.

I made a choice between 'house' and 'automobile'....guess what won..

:)

I made a choice between 'house' and 'automobile'....guess what won..

:)

Oh, oh, I know! You sold your house, right? :p

Are you feeling alright? You are the one jumping into this thread whining about OT posts and subjects, not me.
Actually I'm not feeling so great. I guess I need to re-apply the toothpaste to my scalp.

Actually I'm not feeling so great. I guess I need to re-apply the toothpaste to my scalp.
You'll feel better if you wear the right hat.

I own a home with some nice equity I've gained from improvements I've done, but I have zero credit card debt, and am commited to stay that way. I spent way to much money through my 20s, paid it down, gained it back up and paid it back. There's something truly liberating about being debt free, especially after owing so much.

I see people who seem to live "richer" than me, i.e. new cars and big houses, but then you read about the foreclosure rate and staggering amounts of personal debt rate and it brings it back to scale. Plus being debt free and having some savings provides you a nice F-You fund, which is having enough money you can leave your job should the conditions deteriorate, you get laid off, or simply want some time to travel. Most people can't be SELECTIVE about their jobs because they owe so much and need the highest paying job around. Where as I'm more concerned about ancillary benefits like health insurance, vacation time, and work conditions over salary.

Although I'm debt free, I do USE my credit card quite frequently. I have a United Airlines card, so when I have big purchases to make I get miles for them. Any airline tickets, refrigerators, bikes :) go right on the card and help my travel fund. Plus for internet purchase, (ebay, etc), the protection of a credit card can't be beat.
I've disputed things a few times, (like this case) (http://www.futuregringo.com/index.php/2006/07/10/dale-downtown-motel/)

Credit cards are good. Tons of them offer cash back, perks, miles, protection. BUT it's like playing with razor blades. A few wrong moves will turn the leverage from YOUR favor to THEIRS, and it can happen VERY fast if you're not careful. Been there done that.

And they charge a fee for that privalage dude...


Very few companies charge fees for online transactions. I pay my credit card, cell phone, and mortgage all straight from my checking account. In fact companies prefer this - they're always sending you notes requestion to "go paperless"

BUT - there's one BIG difference that many people don't seperate: I DON'T have automatic payments. I actively make my payment each month and send them the money. With auto deductions you have to get the money back FROM them if there's an error. I want to SEE the amount I owe first, then if there's an error I can deal with it first. Auto payments suck. Just ask anyone who's been dumb enough to give a gym their checking account info than try and quit.

But I LOVE internet payments. Less mail, less paper, and with direct deposit I can pay from anywhere. If I'm visiting family for a week I don't need to do my bills first.

Although I'm debt free, I do USE my credit card quite frequently...Credit cards are good. Tons of them offer cash back, perks, miles, protection. BUT it's like playing with razor blades. A few wrong moves will turn the leverage from YOUR favor to THEIRS, and it can happen VERY fast if you're not careful. Been there done that.
Sounds like you have your financial wits about you and your house in order, literally and figuratively.

The OP and others should learn the distinction, as you have, between credit card-free and debt-free. They might be better off if they made financial decisions based on their reality , rather than from scanning newspaper headlines and TV talking heads.

I hate banks and the whole banking experience (had a really bad incident with them once in which they just decided to freeze my funds for a couple of months - without notifying me! - because I deposited what seemed a suspiciously large check to them). But I use cards all the time. For some thing I buy, credit card is the only way to pay for them. This doesn't mean I get into debt. I don't actually need credit. But I like the convenience of the transaction. I also have only savings account with no banking fee but with only two free withdrawls per months (another outrageous thing -- you pay the a$$holes so they can keep your money and so that they allow you to actually use it... okay, don't get me started on banks.. I already picked out some trees in the local park on which I'm going to hang all bankers one day...). So rather than withdrawing cash all the time I just transfer funds to my credit card once a month. Online banking (i.e., no lost mail ;)).

I agree that it is possible for consumers to win the credit card "game" if they're smart. Unfortunately, the cc companies aand banks make money because people are dumb, and apparently getting dumber. In the short run at least, that's good for you. It's the dumb people who get deep in debt for no reason are forced to pay exorbitant interest that allow the smart consumer to enjoy all the perks that credit cards offer if used properly (miles, points, a little money back and all that jazz).

The point for car free people is if you live in a place where car free is odd and your data trail isn't normal either, you can get homeland security's attention even when you're patriotic and law abiding. Especially if, like the people in the movie you organize and try to change things. Just let me get something straight: this is the citizen of the great and free United States speaking? Yep, thought so. A free country indeed, ain't it? In the USSR they were afraid to say the wrong thing about political leaders; in the US they're afraid to be different from the good little consumer drones they're supposed to be. ;)

I just laugh so hard when somebody talks about "free countries" and "oppressed countries". Free. My. A$$.

I don't understand the fear of credit cards. There is no cost associated with it as long as you pay it off on time. I also don't understand people who can't help themselves from buying more than they can pay off. Why are they so dumb? I mean, you'd have to be pretty dimwitted to think "Hmmm, I can't afford this, but I'll just buy it anyways and hope that in a month when my credit card bill arrives, the money to pay the bill will magically fall into my hands." That's how a 10 year old would reason, not an adult. +1. Except I wouldn't say that last sentence for the fear of offending many 10-year-olds...

Just let me get something straight: this is the citizen of the great and free United States speaking? Yep, thought so. A free country indeed, ain't it?
I'm sure every country has some people who suffer from paranoia.

Just let me get something straight: this is the citizen of the great and free United States speaking? Yep, thought so. A free country indeed, ain't it? In the USSR they were afraid to say the wrong thing about political leaders; in the US they're afraid to be different from the good little consumer drones they're supposed to be. ;)

I just laugh so hard when somebody talks about "free countries" and "oppressed countries". Free. My. A$$.

Yep. It's a free country as far as what the original post was referring to. The guy had every right to make those decisions and no one was preventing him from doing so. That does not mean there won't be consequences to ones decisions.

[QUOTE] I also don't understand people who can't help themselves from buying more than they can pay off.[QUOTE]

That's the problem. "PAY OFF" It's almost impossible to calculate HOW MUCH you will be paying off with credit cards. Unlike a car or home loan, where's it's clear you'll be paying $250 a month for X months and WITH interest the COMPLETE price is $8,000, a credit card fluctuate it's rate based on prime, and your credit worthiness.

I don't think most families think CCs are "free money", but when you don't have sufficient savings and the furnace goes out, plus some Christmas presents and a few nice meals for yourself, now you owe $1,500 already and your putting the groceries on your card. Miss one payment or your credit gets a neg, (on ANY card), suddenly your rates at 23%.

Speaking of credit cards, are these ****ers banned from colleges yet? Nothing digusts me more than seeing a card table in front of a student center hand out promotional garbage in exchange for your financial soul. I know it's up to the consumer to be aware, but still I find it completely innapropriate.

Coming soon to a theatre near you ...


Maxed Out takes viewers on a journey deep inside the American style of debt, where things seem fine as long as the minimum monthly payment arrives on time. With coverage that spans from small American towns all the way to the White House, the film shows how the modern financial industry really works, explains the true definition of "preferred customer" and tells us why the poor are getting poorer while the rich keep getting richer. Hilarious, shocking and incisive, Maxed Out paints a picture of a national nightmare which is all too real for most of us."

Maxed Out Movie (http://www.maxedoutmovie.com/about/index.html)


Interview with the director from NPR:
NPR Interview (http://www.wamu.org/programs/dr/07/03/07.php#12836)

Oh, oh, I know! You sold your house, right? :p

now i "LIVE IN A 'VAN' DOWN BY THE RIVER"!!

Review from the Washington Post.


'Maxed Out': Serious Matters Of Life and Debt

By Ann Hornaday
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, March 9, 2007; Page C01

"Maxed Out," a film about the consumer debt crisis, might as well be ripped from the headlines, in light of last week's stock market plunge (blamed in part on too many mortgages sold to high-risk home buyers). But here's the man-bites-dog part: This factoid-filled, talking-heads documentary -- by a business school graduate -- turns out to be amusing. And enlightening. And positively riveting.

Washington Post Review (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/08/AR2007030802178.html)

Review from the Washington Post.
Thanks Slow Train. I took my daughter to see it yesterday. I didn't like the editing or use of music but think it was worthwhile. It gave me a chance to talk to my adult kid about financial matters without sounding like a parent. As far as relating to this thread goes, I thought it interesting that the movie documented a case of Homeland Security accusing a woman of being a terrorist because of her credit report. It seemed like they were giving the credit companies bad data more weight than the physical evidence.

I also have only savings account with no banking fee but with only two free withdrawls per months [size=1]

I have no fees with my bank. No yearly fee, no limit on withdrawals, no online banking fee, no atm fee, no interac fee, etc. Free cheques, free telephone banking, free bill payments. No minimum balance.

Other banks charge you if you use their machines, so we try not to.

Oh, and using the bill payments earns points for groceries.

We love PC Financial - Heywood - it is Canadian.

I took my daughter to see it yesterday. I didn't like the editing or use of music but think it was worthwhile.

Hey - I saw it Sunday as well! I was a tad disappointed in the movie - especially since it got a good review. Endless factoids with no narrative thread.