anyone live a "card-free" lifestyle?

[goldener]

specifically credit card and/or debit car free? i suppose credit cards are "worse" than debit cards.

i do. i have no cards or anything. i pay in cash, or send a money order if cash isn't accepted or it is a mail order or mail away bill.

edit: i gots no credit, debit, or atm card.

[Artkansas]

That's wise. Though it's strange but if you anticipate getting a house, you will need to establish a credit history. That or save a lot!

Me, I had no credit problems till I got married. Now that I'm divorced, they are clearing up again.

[HardyWeinberg]

I remember, as a kid, hearing adults talk about that in the 70s. I think everyone I knew holding out caved in the 80s for either concert tickets over the phone or car rentals.

GG you sound pretty hardcore, not even a checking account?

[goldener]

GG you sound pretty hardcore, not even a checking account?
no. just a savings account, well 2 actually (in different states, kinda a long story)... no atm card either. all my transactions are in person w/ paper.

[Eatadonut]

specifically credit card and/or debit car free? i suppose credit cards are "worse" than debit cards.

i do. i have no cards or anything. i pay in cash, or send a money order if cash isn't accepted or it is a mail order or mail away bill.

edit: i gots no credit, debit, or atm card.


Why? just wondering. Debit cards are very convenient, especially for online purchases.

[goldener]

Why? just wondering. Debit cards are very convenient, especially for online purchases.
partly laziness, partly luddite, partly because i abhor spending money, and also partly because i don't buy or need much stuff.

[r8ingbull]

Almost cash free here. I tend to go through cash in a hurry. In three weeks I am 100% out of debt, only using debit card for most purchases. One house payment and one final cc payment.

[Slow Train]

I don't view having a credit card itself as evil. It's just how you use it - people are foolish to carry balances. But if not having one works best for you - go for it. But as Artkansas points out not having a credit history is going to cause you some additional grief in life. And it's not just mortgages. Try getting a cell phone without one. Renting an apartment. Car insurance can be higher too (not that that would impact anybody here :rolleyes: )

All manner of businesses are using credit history (and the score derived from it) to decide how they are going to treat you. You may even find it more difficult to get certain jobs.

Myself? One debit card 'cause I hate carrying much cash for all the piddling things I buy. One credit card for major purchases, meals, and online buying 'cause of the extra protection it gives me. Credit card set up to be automatically paid off each and every month.

[donrhummy]

These days having a credit card makes more financial sense (with cash back). Many cards will now give you 5% cash back on groceries (and they used to do that for gas but now it's 2% I think), so if you use cash, you're losing 5 cents for every dollar you spend versus the credit card when buying groceries.

[Roody]

I don't have a credit card because I've seen so many people get into trouble with them, and knowing me I would too. Debit cards are unnecessary because the credit union is only an 8 minute ride when I need to get cash. The credit union issues free cashier's checks so I don't write very many checks.

I do have a library card. I use that a lot. It saves me thousands every year. I not only read their books and magazines for free, I use their public computers and I save probably $100/month on computer purchase and internet access.

God I'm a cheap *******.

:o

[Roody]

These days having a credit card makes more financial sense (with cash back). Many cards will now give you 5% cash back on groceries (and they used to do that for gas but now it's 2% I think), so if you use cash, you're losing 5 cents for every dollar you spend versus the credit card when buying groceries.
When I was young the credit card companies wouldn't even allow you credit for groceries, now they beg you to use them. Why is that?

And the 5% savings is illusory. If you're saving 5 % it's because most people end up paying 20 %. How much would it cost you if one payment got lost in the mail, or you forgot to send it in on time? I bet that would wipe out the "savings" for an entire year.

[Eatadonut]

When I was young the credit card companies wouldn't even allow you credit for groceries, now they beg you to use them. Why is that?

And the 5% savings is illusory. If you're saving 5 % it's because most people end up paying 20 %. How much would it cost you if one payment got lost in the mail, or you forgot to send it in on time? I bet that would wipe out the "savings" for an entire year.

I'm assuming your first statement is rhetorical.

Your second statement is wrong - it requires a degree of responsibility, but it's a game that can be won. I pay all my bills on time to avoid late fees - a credit card would add (would add because I don't have a credit card. I have no need of a credit line - except at the jewelry store:rolleyes: ) another 45 seconds to my monthly ritual. The people who DON'T pay on time are providing my 5%, and I'm okay with that.

[gwd]

I was like Golden Graham for years. But I needed a personal credit card for business travel. Now that so many stores have the swipe at checkout feature I don't use much cash. I love it. Since I'm a debt averse person, I pay it off fully every month. I don't understand the concept of "Get in trouble with a credit card" but apparently some people pay that interest. The thing about using credit cards is the huge data trail that you leave. As data mining tools become better people who have access to your usage patterns can make inferences about you. When they merge that data with your phone records, medical records and library records they'll be able to identify dupes and threats. For example, a just a few years ago some homeland security guy testified to congress that believers in animal rights and enviromentalists were the biggest terrorist threats to the nation. Well, if your purchase pattern shows no meat and no gasoline purchases coupled with checking out books on social justice and maybe some contributions to green peace you might find yourself in front of a secret military tribunal. For us though just putting posts on this forum advocating car free or simple living might mark us as a threat.

[Slow Train]

The people who DON'T pay on time are providing my 5%, and I'm okay with that.

I think we're all paying for credit cards when we make purchases regardless of whether we pay with VISA, MC, or cash. Since they are a ubiquitous fact of modern financial life every business that accepts them (and incurs the typical 2 - 3% merchant fee) simply passes on the cost to its customers.

[deputyjones]

Almost cash free here. I tend to go through cash in a hurry. In three weeks I am 100% out of debt, only using debit card for most purchases. One house payment and one final cc payment.

Good for you! That is awesome, and is a goal of mine as well. I use a debit card because it is easy to use, necessary in some cases (hotel reservations, online purchases, etc.), and is safer than carrying cash.

I do not use credit cards, but know many people that use them effectively to gain air miles, etc. without keeping balances or en curing extra fees (at least they claim that).

[peace_piper]

I'm 100% card free. Never had a credit card, never going to get one. Don't even have a bank account. I pay with cash or I don't pay.

I used to have a debit card, but it's too easy to waste money, since it's not actual money, but numbers in some computer somewhere. I would swipe my debit card everywhere just at random, then suddenly "Hey! Where did the $200 I made last week go?!" I had to stop that lifestyle, so I did. I never carry more than $20 in my wallet anywhere I go either. It's a lot harder to stop that impulsive life when you can't afford it.

Even when I have something that I really want, I have to go home and think about it. I usually sleep on it and I found that after 24 hours, I didn't even want the thing anymore.

[Roody]

Those who always pay credit card bills on time must be a minority, considering the bonuses and "rewards" the credit companies can afford to pay them. I think they're just waiting for you to slip up one time. Like maybe you're sick for a few weeks and you can't concentrate on bill paying. I would be sure to know the penalties for a late payment, as I've heard they're quite high.

My biggest gripe about credit cards is the junk mail they spew out. I get 2 or 3 offers almost every day in my mail box.

[allencb]

I used to have a debit card, but it's too easy to waste money, since it's not actual money, but numbers in some computer somewhere. I would swipe my debit card everywhere just at random, then suddenly "Hey! Where did the $200 I made last week go?!" I had to stop that lifestyle, so I did. I never carry more than $20 in my wallet anywhere I go either. It's a lot harder to stop that impulsive life when you can't afford it.

I'm exactly the opposite. I'm more likely to waste money in the form of cash in my wallet, but I'm tight as heck with money via my debit card. I watch my account balances like a hawk (I have a checkbook app on my Treo), but I frequently forget how much cash I have on hand, especially if I'm shopping.

As for credit cards, between my wife and I, we have 4. I don't use one, but I use the other two from time to time. One's tied to my paypal account and the other I use because it has a 6.5% APR. Between those cards, my current balances total $150. I don't maintain a balance, but I'll frequently charge something to the card as I'm paying off the previous balance, so it *looks* like I'm maintaining $50-$300 balances. My credit rating is good enough that I was able to dictate the interest rate I was going to pay when we bought a car last year.

Chris

[allencb]

These days having a credit card makes more financial sense (with cash back). Many cards will now give you 5% cash back on groceries (and they used to do that for gas but now it's 2% I think), so if you use cash, you're losing 5 cents for every dollar you spend versus the credit card when buying groceries.

Check the fine print. Make sure that's not a 5% rate annually (so you'd get $.05/12 each month on that $1 purchase). Also make sure it's actually 5 PERCENT and not 5 CENTS. That was another "cashback" bonus I've heard of.

Chris

[kevink159]

I have one debit card, and only because it is an accout set up through my job, I can not close it if I wanted to. I use my debit card 2 or 3 times per year, for airline tix basically. Everything else I pay for in cash. When I went to New Zealand last year I left with every penny I had in cash, about $7000. At one point I did use credit cards, but the data mineing that they do scares the hell out of me. With the posibility of identity theft, fraud, billing errors, and on and on I feel much safer carring a huge wad of cash knowing I am in complete control than using some machine that may or may not work.

As for credit history, you are correct that using debit/credit cards is probably wise, but I refuse to play that game. If I can't pay for whatever I want without a loan I will go without it. To me (and I do realize I am in the VERY small minority) home ownership is a sucker bet. You pay for 30 years on a silly house, until you get old and then sit inside and ***** about property taxes and how you can't afford to live in your house any more. I chose to live now, spending every penny I can and work as little as possible.

[allencb]

o me (and I do realize I am in the VERY small minority) home ownership is a sucker bet. You pay for 30 years on a silly house, until you get old and then sit inside and ***** about property taxes and how you can't afford to live in your house any more. I chose to live now, spending every penny I can and work as little as possible.
Depending on where you live, you can have more money in your pocket with a house. When I bought our house, the mortgage payment was about the same as the rent on a 2 bedroom apt. When you factor in the tax deduction, it's less than the apartment. Because I adjusted my witholding to reflect the tax deduction, I get more money in my paycheck than I would otherwise and I still get a small return each year. Prior to buying the house, I was witholding more money AND paying extra when I did my taxes. Therefore, buying a house put more money into my pocket.

In the 5.5 years we've owned the house, it has doubled in value based on sales around us. Had we sold it a year ago, the return would've been even higher (2.5times at it's peak). Not many investments can give you a 100% or greater return in such a short time.

As far as *****ing about property taxes, it's either that or rent payments. Property taxes are much lower than any rent I've seen.

Chris

[wahoonc]

I have lived on a cash basis in the past...right after my divorce:rolleyes: Currently I almost have to carry credit cards because of my job. Otherwise I would be traveling from bank to bank:p ( I go thru about $3000-$5000 a week when I am working on the road...reimbursed;) ) You really have to watch the credit card companies. The latest and greatest trick that Citi tried to pull was charging interest from the date of purchase NOT on balances carried over. Got rid of that card immediately. I typically carry an American Express and a Visa Card from my credit union and that is it. They both get paid in full every month. We do use the points off the Amex for goodies.:D I am not against asking for a a cash discount if I am shopping somewhere. We do it at our bridal salon. We don't advertise it, but if someone pulls out a wad of cash to pay for something we will give them a 3% discount on the spot. Most stores won't do that, but it never hurts to ask.

Aaron:)

[donrhummy]

When I was young the credit card companies wouldn't even allow you credit for groceries, now they beg you to use them. Why is that?

And the 5% savings is illusory. If you're saving 5 % it's because most people end up paying 20 %. How much would it cost you if one payment got lost in the mail, or you forgot to send it in on time? I bet that would wipe out the "savings" for an entire year.

Believe it or not, no. I've been late before and they waived the late fee. I've also been charged for something I didn't buy and without question they erased it from the bill. Believe what you want, they actually do these things. (Now it's not out of altruism. They make a lot of money from the stores as a percentage of every sale. So if you use cash, they lose money. If you use a credit card, even with them giving you cash back, they make money) Oh, and the price at grocery stores is the same if you use cash or credit card.

[Cosmoline]

I use cash for buying things, and invest for savings. Checking accounts are a complete con game, with a massive array of fees and charges for letting the bank use your money. If you want to save, invest properly in something that has actual time value. For internet purchases I just use travel money visa cards. These are not linked to a bank account and have fixed reserves.

[0_emissions :=)]

It would be impossible for me to live without them. The trick is to be WISE with them. I only use my CC in an emergency, (or retail therapy!;) )so I never really have to worry about it. +1 on building your credit. The one thing I tell the young one's is to have a good credit score. It can reward you later in life, or bite you in the A**:)
Whatever works for you though, go for it.
cheers
:beer:

[bragi]

I think cc's are utterly insane, especially for someone as disorganized and forgetful as me, but debit cars are a nice compromise. They're as convienient as cc's, but without the interest.

BUT- I agree with the person who said they're useful to have before you buy a house. I bought my first house 5 years ago, and when the mortgage people found out that my credit history was absolutely blank (I'd never borrowed any money in my life nor ever had a cc), they freaked and tried to run away. If I hadn't qualified for a VA loan, I'd still be renting.

Oh, and BTW, owning a house is a bit of money up front, but much better than renting in the long run, as I'm begiining to discover, and it's WAY smarter financially than buying a car. Even having a cc is smarter than that...

[slowjoe66]

I have a credit card in my wallet and I only use it for unforseen expenses or emergencies. It has a zero balance, no fee and I pay it off every month. In fact, when I do use it, I immediately write a check for the amount charged and when the bill shows up, the check is already written and it is paid that day. I have a debit card, but it is in the safe and I don't use it (it came with my free checking account). I go to the bank on payday and get enough cash for my discriminatory purchases. So in essence, I pay cash for everything. Bills get paid by check; of which I have no debt other than a mortgage. My and wife's car are paid for and I will never again have a car payment (huge rip off), and someday I would like to be down to one car and commute by bike more. Unfortunately I live in a somewhat rural area (Southern Oregon) and we have no viable alternatives like rail or efficient bus.

[Platy]

I've set up my accounts and bill paying to be online and automatic. Credit & ATM cards are a useful part of all that.

Getting everything online is part of the so-called "lock and leave" lifestyle popular with frequent travelers and other semi-nomadic people.

[oneredstar]

No credit card yet. I am 29 and feel the pressure to get one increases every year, but that is probably due more to society changing rather than my age. I do have a debit card that I use often, but I always go through a phase, almost yearly, where I just want to stop using it all together.

Not sure what my real objection is though. Possibly just an objection to the financial establishment, at least on a large scale.

[I-Like-To-Bike]

These days having a credit card makes more financial sense (with cash back). Many cards will now give you 5% cash back on groceries (and they used to do that for gas but now it's 2% I think), so if you use cash, you're losing 5 cents for every dollar you spend versus the credit card when buying groceries.
Which card is still giving 5% back after a relatively short introductory promotion period? Both my Discover and MasterCard used to give 5% on groceries, drugs and gas, but after about 2 years of giving those rebates they have rolled it back to 1%. I like free money and would like to get more.

[I-Like-To-Bike]

And the 5% savings is illusory. If you're saving 5 % it's because most people end up paying 20 %. How much would it cost you if one payment got lost in the mail, or you forgot to send it in on time? I bet that would wipe out the "savings" for an entire year.
No it is not illusory. What I save, I save. If other people pay 20% that is their concern/problem. Account balance payments are made automatically from my checking account on the last day due and don't cost a stamp and no charges or interest accumulates. In fact, I make a few cents off the float.

I get electronic notification of my statement that shows every transaction prior to the automatic payment for a review for accuracy. I can easily download to a spreadsheet and have a very nice and convenient record of expenses.

Any of you credit card free people ever try to rent a car with a wad of cash?

[I-Like-To-Bike]

For example, a just a few years ago some homeland security guy testified to congress that believers in animal rights and enviromentalists were the biggest terrorist threats to the nation. Well, if your purchase pattern shows no meat and no gasoline purchases coupled with checking out books on social justice and maybe some contributions to green peace you might find yourself in front of a secret military tribunal. For us though just putting posts on this forum advocating car free or simple living might mark us as a threat.
Better loosen the straps on your tin foil hat.:rolleyes:

[Geraldo]

We use a CC, but pay the balance monthly. It's a card that gives us $$ back with a large online retailer, so we get the majority of our clothing free just for using the card while we pay no interest. Frankly I'm surprised that they haven't cancelled us as they've been paying us to use their card. I don't see anybody offering me freebies for using cash, so I'll make them pay as long as they're willing.

[GGDub]

I have one debit card, and only because it is an accout set up through my job, I can not close it if I wanted to. I use my debit card 2 or 3 times per year, for airline tix basically. Everything else I pay for in cash. When I went to New Zealand last year I left with every penny I had in cash, about $7000. At one point I did use credit cards, but the data mineing that they do scares the hell out of me. With the posibility of identity theft, fraud, billing errors, and on and on I feel much safer carring a huge wad of cash knowing I am in complete control than using some machine that may or may not work.

As for credit history, you are correct that using debit/credit cards is probably wise, but I refuse to play that game. If I can't pay for whatever I want without a loan I will go without it. To me (and I do realize I am in the VERY small minority) home ownership is a sucker bet. You pay for 30 years on a silly house, until you get old and then sit inside and ***** about property taxes and how you can't afford to live in your house any more. I chose to live now, spending every penny I can and work as little as possible.

Call me a sucker then, but buying a house was one of the smartest/most rewarding things I have done. My mortgage rate was great (because of my credit history) and with smart saving I hope pay it off in 10-15 years. Which will mean, I will have very low living expenses. I also have freedom to do what I want with the place because its mine. Not only that, but the value of the house has increase close to 75% since I bought it. I'd rather b**** about property taxes than b**** about paying rent for the rest of my life. No matter how simply you live, you still have to live somewhere.

[Pax]

I've got two credit cards and a debit card but I try to use cash for every purchase I can. I hate the way CC companies and business' can track my personal spending if I pay electronically...it's none of their damn business.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I don't understand the fear of credit cards. There is no cost associated with it as long as you pay it off on time. I also don't understand people who can't help themselves from buying more than they can pay off. Why are they so dumb? I mean, you'd have to be pretty dimwitted to think "Hmmm, I can't afford this, but I'll just buy it anyways and hope that in a month when my credit card bill arrives, the money to pay the bill will magically fall into my hands." That's how a 10 year old would reason, not an adult.

A credit card is necessary to buy things online. You can save a ton of money by buying things online instead of locally.

Debit cards are great too but most online retailers don't accept them.

Credit cards also offer an extra layer of insurance. For instance, if you buy a laptop and it arrives broken, your credit card protects you. If you rent a car, you can often get away without buying insurance from the rental company because many credit cards have their own separate insurance which covers rental cars.

How much would it cost you if one payment got lost in the mail
Where are you from, 1973? No one pays bills through the mail anymore. That's why every bank has a website that you login to to pay your bills. Much faster, more secure, and saves you the envelope and stamp.

[goldener]

A credit card is necessary to buy things online.
Not true.

You can save a ton of money by buying things online instead of locally.
Sometimes, but not always.

Debit cards are great too but most online retailers don't accept them.
not true.

Credit cards also offer an extra layer of insurance. For instance, if you buy a laptop and it arrives broken, your credit card protects you. If you rent a car, you can often get away without buying insurance from the rental company because many credit cards have their own separate insurance which covers rental cars.
many banks that issue debit cards offer similar protection.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I can assure you that the majority of online retailers, including many of the best ones, do not accept any form of payment other than credit cards.

[deputyjones]

Better loosen the straps on your tin foil hat.:rolleyes:
:roflmao: I actually tend to agree that the patriot act and federal law enforcement have gone too far in many cases, but that right there is funny. I don't care who you are :D

[slagjumper]

Try making a purchase with your bankcard in Russia, then using it in a drugstore near a "major US asset" a day later.

Credit makes the capitolists' world go around. I'd rather pay as little as possible for money. Unfortunately Installment credit is often lacking in the car free. If you want to borrow money for a house, they are looking in part for "Installment credit". That is the type you have when you buy a car or large appliance. It is common for a mortgage company to rejected your loan because you dont have a car loan.

They also really want you to have a CC in good standing and a good debt ratio, (amount owed to total amount of credit.)

So it is like the world is saying your destined to mere survival unless you play by our rules.

[bragi]

I can assure you that the majority of online retailers, including many of the best ones, do not accept any form of payment other than credit cards.

Most debit cards are supported by Visa or some other cc company, which makes them as acceptable as credit cards as far as online merchants are concerned. I use my debit card online pretty frequently, for example to buy plane tickets, and it's always been accepted.

[Artkansas]

I do have a library card. I use that a lot. It saves me thousands every year. I not only read their books and magazines for free, I use their public computers and I save probably $100/month on computer purchase and internet access.:o

My ex used to joke that I didn't max out my credit cards, but I always maxed out my library card. I made her get a library card during our honeymoon because I refused to be married to a woman without a library card. For me, the killer app at libraries these days is borrowing their DVDs. The selections are usually more thoughtful and interesting than the standard video store.

[jdeane4]

You know, I thought about the whole no banking thing yesterday afternoon after the stock market drop. I know it wasn't anything too serious yesterday but it did open my eyes to the history of the US Stock Exchange. When it crashed in 1929, banks, businesses and so forth went under. Every penny I have is in my bank now. If there was another crash, I couldnt imagine loosing all that, even if its not much to the common person. Its a lot to me. I know that the FDIC insures my money, but I don't even trust that. I have several friends who dont use banks and they get by fine. Gotta find a good place to hide your treasure chest though.

[makeinu]

First of all, what is this doing in the car free forum? Using credit cards has absolutely nothing to do with being car free.

Second of all, there is absolutely nothing wrong with bank accounts and credit cards. Sure, the banks try to prey on their customers, but so do bike shops. As with everything else in life, take the good and leave the bad.

You know, I thought about the whole no banking thing yesterday afternoon after the stock market drop. I know it wasn't anything too serious yesterday but it did open my eyes to the history of the US Stock Exchange. When it crashed in 1929, banks, businesses and so forth went under. Every penny I have is in my bank now. If there was another crash, I couldnt imagine loosing all that, even if its not much to the common person. Its a lot to me. I know that the FDIC insures my money, but I don't even trust that. I have several friends who dont use banks and they get by fine. Gotta find a good place to hide your treasure chest though.
If you don't trust the FDIC then why do you trust the US treasury? I guarantee that if the FDIC went down then the whole US currency would go with it.

[I-Like-To-Bike]

I know that the FDIC insures my money, but I don't even trust that. I have several friends who dont use banks and they get by fine. Gotta find a good place to hide your treasure chest though.
Convert your untrustworthy cash into good ole trusty bags of simple life gold dust, or maybe beaver pelts. Then see who will take 'em in trade. Or better yet, stock up on guns and bullets. Good luck.:rolleyes:

[makeinu]

Convert your untrustworthy cash into good ole trusty bags of simple life gold dust, or maybe beaver pelts. Then see who will take 'em in trade. Or better yet, stock up on guns and bullets. Good luck.:rolleyes:
Seriously, this is the car free forum. I can understand why threads about being environmentally friendly might manage to slip by, but threads romanticizing/advocating being an ignorant hillbilly are getting way off topic.

[gerv]

My ex used to joke that I didn't max out my credit cards, but I always maxed out my library card. I made her get a library card during our honeymoon because I refused to be married to a woman without a library card. For me, the killer app at libraries these days is borrowing their DVDs. The selections are usually more thoughtful and interesting than the standard video store.
They also have quite a few books:) Another side effect of using the library is that you tend to keep the house free of a large quantity of books, dvds, etc that you would read once and then stack. I am still confused about why people buy dvds... I mean how many times in your life would you want to revisit "40 year old virgin" ?

[I-Like-To-Bike]

Seriously, this is the car free forum. I can understand why threads about being environmentally friendly might manage to slip by, but threads romanticizing/advocating being an ignorant hillbilly are getting way off topic.
You call it "romanticizing/advocating being an ignorant hillbilly," others on this list have been calling it romanticizing/advocating the "simple life" since almost day one of this list. Go back and do a search of the topics and discussion on this list. One thing for sure, such lifestyle topics have little or nothing to do with bicycling.

[goldener]

I can assure you that the majority of online retailers, including many of the best ones, do not accept any form of payment other than credit cards.
if your debit card has the "mastercard" or "visa" hologram logo, then it is automatically accepted everywhere vias and mastercard credit cards are accepted, or so I am told.

[Artkansas]

If there was another crash, I couldnt imagine loosing all that, even if its not much to the common person. Its a lot to me.

The bigger danger to the average person is with a falling economy, being seriously in debt at the start can hurt you majorly if you lose your job and have to deal with heavy interest as well as trying to keep a roof over your head and food on the table. I'm happy to say that I should be out of debt by the middle of the month.

Of course all us car-free types know that the bicycle can be an incredible asset in such times in respect to keeping costs down.