Advocacy & Safety - Do you break the law for your safety?

The "Need Input" thread got me thinking about breaking the law. Although I believe that following the law is the best option, I do realize that there are some silly laws out there. I wonder if there is anyone that breaks a particular law when cycling because you believe it makes you safer to do so?

No preconceived notions here. Just looking for a discussion, and I promise not to turn anybody in :D

I try to obey traffic laws virtually all of the time. However, sometimes I run red lights at sparsely-traveled intersections, because, on my bike, I can't get the light to change. This isn't safer, but it does allow me to get home at night. Another thing I do sometimes is to ride in the middle of the left lane if I'm going to make a left turn in a few blocks. I'm not sure if this is illegal or not, but it does sometimes annoy motorists. (I sometimes feel compelled to make use of impolite finger signals when drivers try to get aggressive.) I do it anyway because the annoyance only lasts a few seconds, and it's much safer and more predictable than hugging the right side and then trying to veer over at the last moment.

My scofflaw behavior, although rare, generally happens at night or when I'm feeling unsafe in my surroundings. There have been times when I've kept going through stop signs when I'm not getting a good feeling about the neighborhood or the people around me. I encountered a pack of what appeared to be meth-heads walking in the street towards me. I got myself of the left side of the road and ran right on through once I could see there was no other traffic. I have stopped and then proceeded through a red light when I don't like the vibes coming from some of the pedestrians or motorists late at night.

Sometimes I find treating a stop sign as a yield when it's completely clear safer with ice on the road or in the driving rain. None of this happens very often, though.

I pull up to stopped traffic at traffic lights in the left lane on 4 lane roads. i don't know if thats specifically against any traffic codes or not. Like, when a car passes me in a RUSH to get to the next stoplight, then pulls into the right lane to stop me from being in front, I'll just take the LEFT lane as I roll to the light.

sometimes I'm pulling up on a row of cars, all in the right lane, at stops off hills, etc. or in crowded urban traffic scenarios. I'll be first in line in the left lane on a four laner.

I use all lanes of traffic in congested traffic situations versus staying in the rightmost one.

I split lanes of stopped traffic on a drawbridge on my commute sometimes- i think that's legal, actually. traffic is allowed to pass other traffic 'safely' and i meet those parameters.

I also popstop-n-roll reds after ascertaining my safety (but I do it like a lot of the cars- a pop! stop)

i usually wait at stoplights. but sometimes I don't.

An occasional red light jump when I cannot trigger the light, and sometimes a stop sign yield. But usually, my "shortcuts" through legal behavior are more about saving time than safety. This was mostly when I lived in the U-district in Seattle. There's not that many laws you can break in the suburbs and still remain safe.

After stopping and trackstanding for a red, having cut the queue to get to the front, I'll take off (if it's clear) when there's about 1 second of yellow left for the cross traffic so I can get up to speed and not make the cars behind me wait. Other motorists don't seem to mind a bit, but I've been pulled over by County cops for "running a red light." Spirit VS letter, I suppose.

From what I understand, in more civilized countries, there's a special light for cycles that turns green before the light for cars does.

From what I understand, in more civilized countries, there's a special light for cycles that turns green before the light for cars does.

They have those here. They're associated with bike lanes; they get you out so that you're seen by right turning cars. At busy intersections, though, they will often turn red when cars still have a green, so that cars can turn right without having to worry about cyclists. A bit of a hassle, but that's part of the Danish 'system'.

For what it's worth, I will run the red for cycles if the cars have a green and there are none coming (not a safety thing, but convenience)

Hopefully, deputyjones won't turn me in. I don't want to get deported.;)

Edit: to answer the original question: I rarely break the law for safety, since most(in the US?) laws have some clause about that the cyclist can do X, Y, Z if it's for safety reasons. Not sure about Denmark.

Like many people, I'll run a red light if I can't get the signal to change...but I would argue that I'm not breaking any law. If a traffic signal is malfunctioning and is stuck on red, the legal and reasonable thing to do is wait until you can proceed without violating anyone's right of way, and then go. And any light that won't turn green for a cyclist centered on its magnetic sensor is malfunctioning.

I've been told that I often violate California's "as far right as practicable" law by taking a traffic lane when a bike lane is available...and in this case, I do it for safety, not convenience. I'll gladly let other traffic pass me when it's safe, but when approaching an intersection, on a steep downhill, or around parked cars, the bike lane is often a dangerously right-biased position. Again, though, I maintain I'm not breaking any law. The "as far right as practicable" law, while it shouldn't be on the books in the first place, does list plenty of exceptions, including a catch-all one for "avoiding hazardous conditions." That's exactly what I'm doing every time I take the lane.

That said, if I lived in a state with a mandatory bikelane or sidepath law, or a stay-right law without the exceptions specified in California's version, then I suppose I'd end up violating the law all the time; I'm not going to ride unsafely because there's an ignorant law on the books. In such cases, I would welcome any traffic ticket as a chance to challenge a bad law in court.

The OP asked if we broke the law for safety, not for convenience.

I basically agree with divergence about when I might violate the law.

I recently asked a suburban police chief about his opinion of what cyclists should do at lights that won't switch for cyclists. He said that techinically, his officers could ticket us because we could get off our bike and push the pedestrian button. He did say that he hoped his officers would have enough common sense not to ticket a cyclist who couldn't trigger a light, but he added that his officers don't always exhibit common sense.

I'm not saying that the chief's opinion was correct, I'm just passing it along as the opinion of someone who actually enforces the law.

The "Need Input" thread got me thinking about breaking the law. Although I believe that following the law is the best option, I do realize that there are some silly laws out there. I wonder if there is anyone that breaks a particular law when cycling because you believe it makes you safer to do so? There was one spot on my old commute where I had to wait in a left-hand lane to turn left across busy traffic. The lane I was in was not a turn-only lane and I felt very uncomfortable while I was stopped at this intersection waiting for the on-coming traffic to clear before I could turn. At this intersection I frequently bent the law so I wouldn't be stuck out in the middle of the road with fast moving traffic on both sides - sometimes by zipping to the front of the queue and then starting my turn just before the light turned green, other times by zipping across the street before making it to the intersection and hopping the curb.


No preconceived notions here. Just looking for a discussion, and I promise not to turn anybody in :DThe fact that you had to write this makes me sad.

Jalopy

The most common 'law' I break on a bike are the 'no shortcutting' signs that some cities around here have plastered on every business located on or near a street corner that may have a lot that connects both streets. The ordinances were passed with cars in mind, and I can see the point, I don't want a line of traffic using my parking lot as a short cut...(or do I?), but now some nimrods have started citing not only cyclists...but pedestrians as well! Perhaps it's more of a convenience issue that safety, but I'd rather cut through a lot to make a right onto another street than use the intersection, especially if there is a long line of cars waiting at the light.

I have "bent" the rules many times, but I can't remember ever doing it "for my safety." It was usually for convenience, but at the same time, I always tried to keep safety a top priority. Maybe as this thread progresses, I'll remember some laws I've broken "for my safety." But I try to be visibly law-abiding for the most part, not only because of my safety, but because it reflects my status as a legitimate road user.

That doesn't mean laws come before my safety. If the two contradict, I'll break the law in a heartbeat. Most anyone would, even motorists.

The most common 'law' I break on a bike are the 'no shortcutting' signs that some cities around here have plastered on every business located on or near a street corner that may have a lot that connects both streets. The ordinances were passed with cars in mind, and I can see the point, I don't want a line of traffic using my parking lot as a short cut...(or do I?), but now some nimrods have started citing not only cyclists...but pedestrians as well! Perhaps it's more of a convenience issue that safety, but I'd rather cut through a lot to make a right onto another street than use the intersection, especially if there is a long line of cars waiting at the light.

That is crazy Chip. I can't imagine it would be illegal for a pedestrian or bicyclist to cut through a parking lot. That just seems outrageous to me.

I couldn't really think of any when I started this, but I had the same thought process as LBM. Although donnamb brings up a great point I had not thought of in terms of personal security, and I can say I have in the past broken traffic regs in my car due to being in what I felt was an unsafe position somewhere. Fortunately, most of my riding is on rural roads so I don't typically encounter anyone else.

I have "bent" the rules many times, but I can't remember ever doing it "for my safety." It was usually for convenience, but at the same time, I always tried to keep safety a top priority. Maybe as this thread progresses, I'll remember some laws I've broken "for my safety." But I try to be visibly law-abiding for the most part, not only because of my safety, but because it reflects my status as a legitimate road user.

That doesn't mean laws come before my safety. If the two contradict, I'll break the law in a heartbeat. Most anyone would, even motorists.


Zactly. ;)

That is crazy Chip. I can't imagine it would be illegal for a pedestrian or bicyclist to cut through a parking lot. That just seems outrageous to me.

Yep. It was stupid stuff like this that got me into politics once...but I am resisting the urge to do it again, choosing good ole civil disobedience and relying on the fact that most cops with a lick of sense don't bother paying any attention to such silliness - but there are always that 10% who not only feel the need to enforce the letter of the law, but to push the envelope to see how it can be applied in areas where it was never intended.

Yes, and will have to continue because suing the City would be suing myself...and friends as it's our money to begin with. Pet peeves are intersections that you cannot trigger on a al/cf bike, there is no cross walk button without dismounting, walking down a stepped path to get to the button or it's crossing the other direction than what I'm going. Early morning you could set there for 30 minutes.

Oh, I remember now! :eek: I use a whistle, but I've never been ticketed for it, and it has saved me a few times from motorists coming in from side streets who didn't appear to see me. It works even when windows are rolled up, and never runs out of power. But the downside is knowing when to have it ready in your mouth, if it's not already in there, forget it--trying to put it in is a waste of time. Probably better to go with an airhorn, but I'm used to my whistle. ;)

Now I'm thinking, maybe it's time to install the Airzound.

On a 3-way intersection I rarely stop at the stop sign if I'm riding straight across the top of the T. I'm not even sure I have to stop. If the stop line doesn't cross the bike lane, or if the stop sign is to the left of the bike lane, is the bike lane being excluded from having to stop?

I'm with Donna on the personal safety stuff. I can't think of any blatant big laws I ever broke for safety but if there are scary guys milling about I will ride down the middle or down the other side of the road or change course if I have to. Mostly I just ride like hell trying to be inconspicuous to get away.

The real question, DJ, is what laws do YOU break. We promise not to turn YOU in. :)

On a 3-way intersection I rarely stop at the stop sign if I'm riding straight across the top of the T. I'm not even sure I have to stop. If the stop line doesn't cross the bike lane, or if the stop sign is to the left of the bike lane, is the bike lane being excluded from having to stop?

I'm with Donna on the personal safety stuff. I can't think of any blatant big laws I ever broke for safety but if there are scary guys milling about I will ride down the middle or down the other side of the road or change course if I have to. Mostly I just ride like hell trying to be inconspicuous to get away.

The real question, DJ, is what laws do YOU break. We promise not to turn YOU in. :)

Well, about 70% of my riding is done on MUP's which around here is a very wide sidewalk offset 5' or so from the road, and we have them just about everywhere here. So, I am not subject to regular traffic rules during that time.

I do have to say that honestly I obey pretty much all traffic laws when on my bike, but that has more to do with reading on this board some very good reasons for doing so in terms of advocacy. If left to my own devices I might be a bit more of a scofflaw, but that has more to do with the way bicycles are viewed here then my own respect for the law. Here there are so very few bicyclists in the roadway that they are viewed by most as toys and annoyances. I figure if when I ride in the road I follow the rules then I might be taken more seriously.

I will admit that if I thought my safety was in danger I would break a traffic reg without concern. I would expect that if I could articulate to an Officer why I did what I did he would understand, and if not him then the Magistrate would.

I break the law constantly and I think I am safer for it. If I am at a red light, and I can cross the intersection without interfering at all with anyone's right of way, I do it. Its safer for a cyclist to be out in front of traffic and moving. You are most likely to fall, or slip a foot off a pedal or swerve around a little as you get going, when you first start up from a dead stop. Its safer to start from a stop when other traffic is not moving than it is when the drag race all around you starts as the light changes.

As for the argument that "cars hate us more when they see us violate road rules", let me let you in on a little secret. Cars hate us, period, no matter what we do. Evicence of this is the fact that several times a month, when I am riding in the middle of the street, obeying all laws, some idiot will honk, lean out the window and yell "Get the F--- off the road!"

I can't think of any law I have broken to improve my safety.

Maybe, just maybe, I have technically run a red light in the transition from yellow when cruising along at a good clip with a vehicle fairly close behind. I avoid stopping hard for my safety as I can't be sure the vehicle behind me will. I say maybe as it has never been clear to me if I entered the intersection before or after red.

Al

Sidewalk riding: Illegal throughout most of the state. One of my routes parallels a busy 6 lane 45+mph parkway dead ends at another busy 45+mph arterial and continues on the other side of the parkway. In order to get to the light to cross these two streets safely I use the sidewalk (though technically it is more parking lot and lawn then sidewalk.)

Door zone bike lanes: I ride at least 4 feet from parked cars regardless of the bike lane as recommended per safe cycling practices (conflict of law, engineering and safe practices.)

Bike lanes obstructed by over hanging vegetation. This is not one of the legal exceptions for leaving a bike lane but is one of the most obvious that a cyclist cannot ride in the bike lane.

As a general rule I don’t like making a vehicular left turn from busy roads without a dedicated left turn lane (I don’t like being stopped in the middle of traffic where motor vehicles have a habit of rear ending each other when they try to do this.) In some cases crossing like a pedestrian is not an option (no crosswalks or lights) in some cases I can safely do a pedestrian left turn but in others the intersection is busy enough that traffic never really stops (as right turn on red is allowed) or it’s one of those dumb intersections where pedestrians can only cross on one side so even that option has its safety down falls (there is a reason why ped accidents outnumber ours IMHO) so lets just say I get creative in dealing with these situations.

[I will add that most here agree that riding the wrong way through an intersection or riding to the right of a right hand turn lane is not safe, so why then does walking in those ways suddenly become safe?]

I'll sometimes make a left (across the two oncoming lanes) into the vacant lot on the corner, instead of sitting and waiting for the left-turn arrow. I do this when there are no cars stopped in the LT lane, because when I am the first vehicle in line, the cross-traffic gets a left-turn arrow first and most drivers don't swing that turn wide enough. I've had to jump out of the way to avoid being hit by a JAM that cut right through my lane on his way through the turn.

(edit) This applies only to one particular intersection on my ride home, where the roadway I'm on is 3 lanes west (RT, Straight, LTO) and 2 lanes east (Straight, LTO) and the cross-street is a freeway transition, 3 lanes both directions.

Just before getting to work, I cross over onto the sidewalk just before the intersection. The sidewalk has a nice ramp onto it, and I ride it going the opposite way of traffic. I ride the sidewalk about 60 feet, stop at the intersection crosswalk, then proceed to the other side, where my building is on the corner. I usually do this especially when the light is red. Generally there's a lot of cars stacked up going the opposite way. I'm stuck in the center turn lane waiting to make the left turn.

This is mostly convenience, but I look at it as a safety issue in terms of how long I remain exposed in the intersection.

Some local municipalities here in NC have laws that require riding on a parallel sidewalk-type bike path if one is present instead of the road. I violate these laws because I find the roadway safer when traveling at my normal speed and efficiency level. I use the time I save to lobby for repealing these laws.

Some municipalities also have laws that require cyclists to stay unreasonably close to the right edge of the road and fail to provide important exceptions for preparing to turn left or general safety. I ignore these laws as well, and simply follow the state law for drivers traveling under the speed limit as applicable.

Some local municipalities here in NC have laws that require riding on a parallel sidewalk-type bike path if one is present instead of the road. I violate these laws because I find the roadway safer when traveling at my normal speed and efficiency level. I use the time I save to lobby for repealing these laws.

Some municipalities also have laws that require cyclists to stay unreasonably close to the right edge of the road and fail to provide important exceptions for preparing to turn left or general safety. I ignore these laws as well, and simply follow the state law for drivers traveling under the speed limit as applicable.
+1.

A friend of mine just now told me, "It's too bad they don't have a bike path from Stone Mountain to Atlanta, so you could use it."

I told him, "They do, I just don't use it." See, I used to use it, but got tired of:

1) crossing intersections with a green light in the crosswalk on the left side of the street while looking over my right shoulder for left-turning traffic behind me and simultaneously watching for right-on-red turners;

2) crossing business entrances on the left side of the street while watching for left-turning cars over my right shoulder behind me;

3) avoiding flocks of bus patrons covering the path, broken glass, and pavement irregularities;

4) waiting to cross intersections that have a green light but I can't because the path switches to the right side of the road and I have to wait for another light cycle, then cross, then wait again;

5) not to mention decorative shrubbery blocking business entrances, telephone poles in the middle of the path, etc...sheesh!

No disrespect to the people who built this path prior to the Atlanta Summer Olympics, but this one needs some serious rethinking. Of course, we are not required to use it unless ordered to by local police.

I agree with most of the posters here in that I will do just about anything, legal or not, if I deem that it improves my safety or (and even if OT) expediency without impeding traffic or endangering myself or others.

One example that comes to mind is a "T" intersection that I use every weekday evening on my commute home. The "leg" of the "T" intersects a very wide (each lane would easily accommodate two cars abreast, but each is marked for only one) two lane road where traffic moves past legally at 35 mph but in reality at 50 to 60 mph (where are those cops when you need 'em). I need to make a left turn at this intersection, which means I have to cross two lanes of fast moving traffic. The intersection is controlled by a one-way stop sign (I have to stop).

I check for traffic in both directions as I approach this intersection (visibility is good in both directions). If I happen to catch it when there is no traffic, I absolutely blow this stop sign 100 times out of 100. In my view, that is a much safer maneuver than taking the time to stop and start up again - by which time, fast moving traffic may have reappeared.

Also, at that same intersection, if there is no traffic coming from my left, but several cars approaching from my right, I often pull across the near lane and make a right turn into the oncoming traffic approaching from the right. I'll ride on or just right of the center lane towards the oncoming traffic until it clears, then hang a 'U' turn to proceed in the desired direction.

This gets me safely across one lane while it is totally clear of traffic, gives me a very clear view of oncoming traffic in the remaining lane, and gives oncoming traffic a very clear view of me. I would guess that there is something illegal about this maneuver, but I can tell you that I feel much more comfortable than if I waited until there was a simultaneous break in traffic from both directions and then tried to start from a dead stop to sprint across these two wide lanes. I consider the move similar to what I would do in a car if turning left at the same intersection. If traffic is so heavy that both lanes are never clear at the same time, you wait until the nearest lane is clear, then, pull your car out into the intersection and wait until an opening occurs in the far lane. Traffic that subsequently approaches from your left is forced to stop for you (I don't know what most state or local laws would say about that maneuver, either, but that's a topic for another forum).

I also encounter some intersections that are of such large proportions (picture a traffic-light controlled intersection that is two or three lanes in all directions) where, either because of the light timing or because sensors do not detect me, the green light in my favor doesn't last long enough for me to safely enter and proceed through the intersection before it changes giving opposing traffic the right to proceed. At these intersections, I will always try to jump the green after first checking carefully to make certain that no opposing traffic is trying to stretch their yellow. It is simply much safer even if it is technically against the law.

Caruso

Late at night, when traffic is very light. I sometimes ride much further to the left because I'm paranoid about cars on side streets T-boning me. Sometimes I drift over intothe opposing lane or into the center left-turn-only lane.

Here's another one that deputyjones will understand, even if he doesn't agree with it. We have what are called "Michigan left turns." (On a divided street, you're supposed to drive past your left turn, then make a kind of controlled U-turn and go back to make a right turn.) That means a quick veer across 3 or more lanes, stand in front of cars at a stop sign, then turn around and do it again, even quicker. I usually just do a traditional left turn if it seems safe at the particular intersection.

I ride in the Buses Only Lane sometimes.

I proceed up 5th Ave, (top street, moving left to right on the map), up hill in the “Buses only Lane”. The bus lane is the right most lane, the other 3 lanes are one-way traffic coming down. In the Bus Lane I am moving the same direction as the buses at more or less the same speed up the 4-5% grade.

The legal route would be to take Forbes Ave, (near the middle of map) . But there are a few areas with short distance, high speed lane shifts, where traffic 45 -55 mph crosses the road.

Sure I could do it on Forbes, but it just seems more dangerous than racing up the 2000 foot long 4% grade and encountering only the occasional bus. Seven out of ten times, no bus comes up before I get to the top, and about 1 out of 10 times I jump onto the right sidewalk to let the bus pass.

Satellite of Image of Area (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=forbes+and+craft+15213&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF-8&om=1&z=17&ll=40.436365,-79.970341&spn=0.003593,0.01075&t=k&iwloc=addr)


Map of area (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=forbes+and+craft+15213&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF-8&om=1&z=17&ll=40.436365,-79.970341&spn=0.003593,0.01075&iwloc=addr)

to Carusoswi: In MI that U-turn maneuver would not be illegal on a rural road like I think you are describing, and I have a few intersections near me where this would work. Thanks for the tip. I will try that.

to Roody: I know exactly what you mean about those darn MI lefts. If that is the safest way for you, so be it. You will receive no judgments from me.

While I wouldn't hesitate to break the law to save my skin, it's hard to think of a scenario where this would be possible. For convenience I will slow without stopping at stop signs, but I very rarely run red lights. Run a red light in my part of Florida and you won't get a ticket but a trip via lifeflight to the nearest trauma center. I would love to run one that is tough to trigger, but it's where I hit a heavily traveled four-lane with a 45mph posted limit but 65mph actual speed, so I just wait, and wait, and wait until some SUV comes along and triggers it.

Nice quote Geraldo. I love that movie. "@#$% it dude. Let's go bowling."

if the street is covered with major ice - i.e. my foot will have no traction, I will roll through a stop sign rather than stop/put my foot down and risk a loss of traction, not to mention the fact that I won't be able to start the bike again until my butt is on the seat (by which time I might have fallen over) because my rear wheel will spin out unless there is sufficient traction to start on ice.

I don't feel guilty about it either...

Does anyone here trackstand on uneven, wet, ice or snow? I haven't learned to do it yet (summer project) on dry pavement, but I imagine that rutted ice makes it more difficult.

I'll take a sidewalk IF the sidewalk is wide and empty, AND the street is a high-speed arterial. My morning commute has a very nice, wide, sidewalk that runs along a vacant lot for about a block, then connects to a shopping center parking lot. I don't think I've ever seen anyone walking on it. I consider it much safer to ride that stretch of sidewalk than mix it up with the cars on the arterial street. It's technically illegal, but I think it would take a REALLY bored cop to hassle me about it.

I obey vehicular laws in most circumstances. However, I sometimes roll through stop signs without putting my foot down. I also will stop at red lights and sometimes either go on a pedestrian walk signal, if it's in my favor, or go in the few seconds of delay when the light for perpendicular running traffic has turned red but my light has not yet turned green. I do this so as to get ahead of a line of traffic where I will need to establish myself in the lane and don't want to fight to get in there.

I will also sometimes turn right on a red where it is marked "No Turn on Red" I'll do this because either because a driver may be indicating they want to make the illegal turn and I am blocking them or because it just makes logical sense to move right along.

Anyone else see the numor in a police officer asking us if we break the law?? :D
entrapment!!! hehe ;)

So, dj, why do you give people tickets for not stopping at their driveway? Is it a pet-peeve of yours? Or do you only do it after they've caused an accident? Or what? We who daily witness the world falling all to heck in a handbasket would like to know what goes through the minds of cops.

So, dj, why do you give people tickets for not stopping at their driveway? Is it a pet-peeve of yours? Or do you only do it after they've caused an accident? Or what? We who daily witness the world falling all to heck in a handbasket would like to know what goes through the minds of cops.
Of course every cop has only enough time to do what they can with the time they have. My particular county is one that is in the middle of an extremely rapid transformation from a rural one to a mostly suburban one, and we are working hard to keep up with the reality of a massive increase in population with limited resources. I work 12 hour shifts and patrol an area of about 50 square miles and about 50,000 residents along with 3 other officers on my shift. In the summer it is not uncommon for me to take over 20 calls in one shift. I am not complaining here. I really love my job, but I want to give you some background.

So, given that info it is pretty hard to find the time to write tickets at all, and when you do you want to have the greatest impact you can on traffic safety. In my department every Deputy is given the discretion to decide for themselves what that would be. Typically that would not be someone failing to stop before exiting their driveway as we have plenty of REALLY BAD drivers here who are doing REALLY dangerous things that deserve my time and a ticket much more. I have and do write tickets to drivers who I see flying out of parking lots at 20 mph or so and above, but you are correct that most of the "fail to stop exiting private drive" tickets are ones written after an accident. This is also one of the reasons that I enjoy riding VC in the little town where I live because the cops here have a lot more time on their hands and people tend to follow the rules more here because they know that.

Since I have begun cycling more I see the risk potential of this type of violation more so I tend to write more of those tickets than my colleagues. Although, I have to admit that there are very few cyclists in MI compared to other places, especially in rural/suburban environments, so cyclists needs and violations tend to be overlooked by most Officers. I think I am the only cop I know that has ever written a cyclist a ticket.

I should add that this is the case in lots of municipalities around the US that cops just don't have enough time to do enough enforcement to keep everybody in line. That is the reason I favor better built traffic systems that require less enforcement in general (don't tell the union I said that :D).

The other thing I wanted to add is that the squeaky wheel gets the grease, and that you and your local bicycle advocacy group should be squeaking like crazy if you have a problem in your area. Complain, ask for a meeting with the local law enforcement administration and explain to them the problem cyclists face and do the same at local town/county/road commission meetings. Don't give up when it does not happen, but don't become a thorn either. That is a tough line to walk though.

The OP asked if we broke the law for safety, not for convenience.

I basically agree with divergence about when I might violate the law.

I recently asked a suburban police chief about his opinion of what cyclists should do at lights that won't switch for cyclists. He said that techinically, his officers could ticket us because we could get off our bike and push the pedestrian button. He did say that he hoped his officers would have enough common sense not to ticket a cyclist who couldn't trigger a light, but he added that his officers don't always exhibit common sense.

I'm not saying that the chief's opinion was correct, I'm just passing it along as the opinion of someone who actually enforces the law.

The left turn lights are the ones we don't trigger the most around here. Getting off and walking anywhere would also be illegal from the left turn lane. We could get a ticket for jaywalking against the light by that Chief's officers.

Thanks for your answer, DJ. I understand there isn't much money for enforcement. I think that's too bad.

It's hard to know how to report something like a problem with motorists. I mean, everybody knows about 911 but what are you supposed to do when your issue is with people in general and not a specific incident, or if it is a specific incident but it's all done and over with, nobody got hurt, but you were threatened maliciously nontheless?

I had an incident where I had to ride up this narrow, winding road every day to get to work. The road was steep so I would go as slow as 4 miles an hour on this hill. The road was so narrow that I would block traffic. But I had no alternative.

Meanwhile, many cars would use this same road as a shortcut to try to bypass stop-and-go traffic on the freeway. The road would be choked with frustrated, short-cut-seeking motorists.

So here I am, 4mph up the hill, and some guy behind me passes me on one of the curves, forcing an oncoming guy to have to slow down. So the oncoming guy decides to take out his anger on me, honking his horn at me and crossing over to my side of the road, aiming right at me. I had to take evasive action to avoid being hit head-on.

I mentioned this to the bicycle coalition and a deputy happened to read it and contacted me. She was from some community outreach department. I had never heard of that department. It might have been nice to know there was someone there to contact, something I could do at all besides just take it and complain. I didn't think I had any recourse because I don't know who that was and it had already happened so it was too late. All I knew about is 911.

Anyway, the end of the story was I kept an eye out for the guy, saw him again, got his plate number and they went to his house to have a little talk with him. They also posted a deputy near where people would get off the freeway for the short-cut to try to dissuade them from doing that. I was very grateful.

I'm even more grateful I don't have to ride on that road anymore. I've got a new job.

hell, I break the law just for fun!

Nobody has mentioned signaling turns yet, have they?

I rarely signal obvious turns when they would throw my balance off. Halfway a safety issue, halfway a speed issue. This is definitely more a of problem on a nimble road bike than on a clompy thick hybrid. Sometimes it's a bit TOO nimble. Or I'm too clumsy, I suppose. Anyway, I've come close to tumping over during ill-advised arm signals, and decided not to do them when I don't have to.

If you're in a dedicated left-turn lane or a center lane intended for left turns in both directions, it's pretty obvious what you're going to do. Likewise for right turns that wouldn't directly affect other traffic (i.e. nobody behind me in my lane, no traffic that could reasonably intersect with my path, etc.)

But technically illegal.

Seriously, if pulling an arm from the bars to signal makes you almost lose it, you have some riding position issues to look at. :eek:

I live north of Denver. Between my suburb and Denver lies this wonderful place named Commerce City, a land of potholes and industrial areas. I would say a high percentage of the streets are what I would call not ridable. In addition to this we have a major bike path that runs north and south the whole length of the metro area. It is wide and paved with very few surface issues. What does my county do? They place a dusk till dawn ban on the portion that runs through it. I obeyed the deputy that informed me of this for a month or two. Now I just turn off my lights and ride by the light of the moon in areas they can spot me. It is much safer than being swallowed by a pothole or ran over by a semi. As a side note, the deputy informed me that I had to ride on these streets and in the next breath told me that he was scared of riding in the street. WTF?

Ha ha. Well, I tend to overdo signals in the first place. I don't trust drivers' attention to be constantly focused on me to be able to catch a quick signal. If it's worth doing, it's worth doing for an amount of time when they're likely to notice it, so my signals tend to be four or five seconds. At 20mph, with a backpack, on a pothole road, steering into a turn lane, it ain't practical.

It's hard to know how to report something like a problem with motorists. I mean, everybody knows about 911 but what are you supposed to do when your issue is with people in general and not a specific incident, or if it is a specific incident but it's all done and over with, nobody got hurt, but you were threatened maliciously nontheless?

Can't disagree with you there. The "emergency services" departments of every jurisdiction (primarily the Police) is a bit of a labyrinth of community policing officers, road patrol, traffic services, administration, dispatch, etc, and we don't typically do a good job of informing the average citizen where they need to go with their particular problem. To confound the issue even more, every municipality is different in how they receive and deal with issues addressed by citizens. Heck, in some places you can even be fined for calling 911 without it being an emergency.

I wish I could give you a good answer on what to do, but it would really depend on the particular issue you are facing and where you are. What I would recommend is asking your local municipality's cops (whether that be State, County, City or all three) to send an Officer to speak at a meeting of your local advocacy group to inform cyclists about what action to take. On a personal level you could call the local PD during the day and ask them some questions, and maybe ask to speak with your local community policing Officer if you have one.



Anyway, the end of the story was I kept an eye out for the guy, saw him again, got his plate number and they went to his house to have a little talk with him. They also posted a deputy near where people would get off the freeway for the short-cut to try to dissuade them from doing that. I was very grateful.

I'm even more grateful I don't have to ride on that road anymore. I've got a new job.

Wow, So......how did that work out for you?

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Do you break the law for your safety?

[URL="http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21208.htm"]The law (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21208.htm) in CA says cyclists must ride in bike lanes when they are present.

There are many exceptions, but I don't make sure at least one of the exceptions applies every time I choose to ride outside of the bike lane (which is most of the time).

I'm sure there are instances when I'm technically breaking the law for not being in the bike lane, and the reason I'm breaking it is because i believe I am safer riding outside of the road margin (that happens to be demarcated by the bike lane stripe) in space normally used for vehicular travel.

Wow, So......how did that work out for you?
I saw that guy a few more times and he was on his best behavior. I could tell it was painful for him to be on his best behavior, too. This gave me a lot of satisfaction. Plus I could tell there were less short-cut seekers for a little while, but that didn't last too long.

That's a good idea about inviting a police person to come and talk to the local advocacy group. Maybe I will suggest it.

No preconceived notions here. Just looking for a discussion, and I promise not to turn anybody in :D

No breaking the law in front of you Deputy Jones!

Generally no ... I follow the general rules fairly carefully. Sometimes I break the law for convenience as opposed to safety concerns. Then again, since I live in an area with several different applicable laws (pretty easy to cross state/county boundaries around here) I may be breaking the law without knowing it.