Touring - Water Bottles or Camelback?

We begin the Southern Route mid April - I can't make up my mind on 3 water bottles or a camelback. It's seems like a along way to to carry weight on your bike, but it definitely makes keeping hydrated easier. I was also wondering about potassium suppliments due to the amount of sweating I anticipate we will be doing. Thank for everyone's opinions. Mike

I love my Camelback for mountain biking, but have no desire to carry that weight on my back if I don't have to. We carry a bit of powdered Gatorade with us and make diluted Gatorade to keep replenished with the things water lacks.

Here in OZ, I have to carry a lot of water and I carry water bottles and a hydro pack (Camelbak). I find it easier to remember to drink regularly with the Hydro pack, and I transfer water out of the bottles into the pack through out the day.

I also take the suppliments because of excess sweating in the heat.

I find that your back can get hot with a Camelbak on until you get used to it.

Water is heavy. Have the bike carry it, rather than your back.

I personally like the camelback so that I can keep hydradate - okay, perhaps I don't like reaching down and grabbing a water bottle - but it works for me.

I personally like the camelback so that I can keep hydradate - okay, perhaps I don't like reaching down and grabbing a water bottle - but it works for me.

Another advantage of Camelbaks is that they are well insulated. Pack a bag of ice in them (you can get most of a 7 lb bag of ice in one), fill with water and you'll have cold water for most of the day...even in over 100 F temperatures. Water bottles can't even come close to that. They last less than an hour even at 90 F.

If you ride a lot you may find the backpack style water bags are a pain in the neck. Literally. I switched to extra bottles.

If you ride a lot you may find the backpack style water bags are a pain in the neck. Literally. I switched to extra bottles.
+1

I find it easier to remember to drink regularly with the Hydro pack, and I transfer water out of the bottles into the pack through out the day.

Just sticking the mouthpiece into my mouth is much easier than remembering to reach down and drink from the bottle. Can also do it more steadily during the ride without worrying about whether the water stream squirting down my throat is going to cause me to choke as I inhale while drinking:eek:.


I find that your back can get hot with a Camelbak on until you get used to it.

I agree but as cycocommute suggests, dropping ice into the Camelback can make for a pleasant sip of cool H2O in hot weather. But the Camelback is kind of annoying at times. When I first started riding, I wore the Camelback all the time and kept cellphone, keys, etc. in it. Felt funny when I went to the bottles instead because of heat on my back. But then I realized that I wasn't drinking regularly enough with the bottles...

Another advantage of Camelbaks is that they are well insulated. Pack a bag of ice in them (you can get most of a 7 lb bag of ice in one), fill with water and you'll have cold water for most of the day...even in over 100 F temperatures. Water bottles can't even come close to that. They last less than an hour even at 90 F.
+1

Here in OZ, I have to carry a lot of water and I carry water bottles and a hydro pack (Camelbak). I find it easier to remember to drink regularly with the Hydro pack, and I transfer water out of the bottles into the pack through out the day.

Me too.

That, and I am not that coordinated. I have trouble reaching down, drinking, and steering the bike at the same time. :)

What I've found is yes, the water in a Camelbak stays very cold for a longer time, but the problem is the majority of your sip is of water that's been in the exposed tube. So you get a warm sip followed by a quick cold blast. Anyone tried the tube insulators?

What I've found is yes, the water in a Camelbak stays very cold for a longer time, but the problem is the majority of your sip is of water that's been in the exposed tube. So you get a warm sip followed by a quick cold blast. Anyone tried the tube insulators?

I've used them in the winter time and they work very well there...even after an hour at 20F or lower, the water is still liquid. For summer riding I don't find it that much of an issue but I expect that they would work well there too.

Supplements
I am not a big fan of supplements, as I believe your system will pass most of the vitamins and minerals. It's much better to get what you need in your food or in liquid form.

So for potassium, energy drinks are your best bet, and Gatorade is easy to find.

You should also watch your calcium intake, as you will also sweat out calcium. Cycling is also not a load-bearing exercise, so between the two, several months of sweaty touring might cause some loss in bone density. You can only digest about 500mg of calcium per sitting iirc, so again you won't gain much by some massive 2000mg morning calcium supplement....


Camelbaks
I'm not a fan of Camelbacks for cycling. I agree the insulation is a plus, but you pay for it with the discomfort of major back sweat. They're also much harder to clean than bottles, and I hate feeling the weight sway all over the place when I ride.

The Polar water bottles are insulated and work ok. Not as well as a Camelback but much, much better than a regular bottle.

Another good thing about a bottle is I can tell roughly how much I've consumed, which reduces the chance of dehydration. I can never tell when using a CB.

However, CB's are great for hiking. So if you do day hikes, I suggest you pick one up anyway, and even if it doesn't work out for cycling you can use it for hikes.

You can also get one of these, to make it easy to drink...

http://www.bikesportz.com.au/assets/products/minoura/bidons/bh2/mounted_BIG.jpg

Water is heavy. Have the bike carry it, rather than your back.
Wether you carry it on your bike or your back, you still have to move the weight.
I find the Camelback easier to use, and easier to remember to drink from. I put only water in my camelback, which keeps cleaning easy. The bottles get the sports drink.

Another advantage of Camelbaks is that they are well insulated. Pack a bag of ice in them (you can get most of a 7 lb bag of ice in one), fill with water and you'll have cold water for most of the day...even in over 100 F temperatures. Water bottles can't even come close to that. They last less than an hour even at 90 F.


Please be careful doing this. drinking ice cold water in over 100F, really shocks your system. I have a uncle who almost died doing this

Too cold to guzzle, I just stick with bottles, sit up & stretch while drinking. For extra potassium I buy ACT energy drink powder packets manufacturer direct. www.drinkact.com/olivegreen

Please be careful doing this. drinking ice cold water in over 100F, really shocks your system. I have a uncle who almost died doing this

Some people disagree

From Tufts University (http://healthletter.tufts.edu/issues/2003-08/asktufts.html):

Can drinking ice water during exercise “shock” the system too much? Is it better to go with slightly cool water?

There’s no harm in drinking ice-cold water when you exercise. In fact, cold fluids empty from the stomach faster than warm ones, so they’re faster at replacing water lost through sweating. That “can have an immediate effect of cooling off the body’s core” during exercise, says William Evans, PhD, director of the Nutrition, Metabolism, and Exercise Laboratory at the University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences.

I like and have both but the last thing I want when I tour is something on my back especially if it's warm. Camelbacks are really great for sports where you can't afford to muck around looking for a water bottle. The great thing about touring is you are not in a hurry so pull over, take in the view and grab your bottle and have a drink.

BTW, here is my cage of choice. Blackburn stopped making them but I found a place that still had some and bought three. They hold a liter and a half and when the bottle gets yucky, recycle it and buy a new one.

I use an oversized 44oz stainless steel bottle (http://www.vwvagabonds.com/Bike/BikeWaterBottles.html) and with a Cannondale cage that allows for easy access while riding.

http://www.vwvagabonds.com/Bike/images/BikeKleanKanteen.JPG

Also, a water bladder can be useful as it shrinks to fit wherever you chose to carry it.

What I've found is yes, the water in a Camelbak stays very cold for a longer time, but the problem is the majority of your sip is of water that's been in the exposed tube. So you get a warm sip followed by a quick cold blast. Anyone tried the tube insulators?


Try blowing into the tube prior to taking your drink. You'll force the existing water back into the bladder.

I don't want all the weight on my back. For my tour I will have three 28 oz bottles on the frame and then two dromedary bags. I haven't decided what size I will get. Most likely I'll buy two 4 L bags. They're indestructible and collapse down great when not filled with water. I chose to use bottles because I don't want all the weight on my body while riding. I sweat a lot so having the amount of water I need on my back makes no sense to me.

I don't want all the weight on my back. For my tour I will have three 28 oz bottles on the frame and then two dromedary bags. I haven't decided what size I will get. Most likely I'll buy two 4 L bags. They're indestructible and collapse down great when not filled with water. I chose to use bottles because I don't want all the weight on my body while riding. I sweat a lot so having the amount of water I need on my back makes no sense to me.

23 pounds of water?!?!

Please be careful doing this. drinking ice cold water in over 100F, really shocks your system. I have a uncle who almost died doing this

8000 riders at Hotter 'N Hell every August will disagree with you. Plenty of ice cold water and Powerade at every rest stop and no shortage of heat. I can't recall any of the medical personnel at the rest stops telling us to go easy on the cold liquids.

Maybe your uncle drank an excessive amount of water resulting in hyponatremia, which is independent of water temperature.

A CamelBak also makes a nice pillow at night by inflating the bladder and closing the shutoff.

I've done both--I like the ease of filling one bladder and the ability to keep water cooler longer, but I don't always like it on my back. Last summer, I found myself strapping the camelbak to the rear rack on hot days (or putting it in a half-empty pannier) and drinking from it when I stopped (or filling the one water bottle I keep on my bike).

I just got a new hydration pack made by Gerber (the knife people), that's high-vis lime with reflectors, but I also bought it because they have a semi-rigid bladder (kind of like a flexible milk-jug-type material) that should help a LOT with drying the thing in between uses. And they say it's dishwasher safe. I was impressed with how quickly it air dried.

One thing about drinking a really cold drink when it is hot outside. BRAINFREEZE!!!!!!!

I personally enjoy a drink that is cool but not ice cold if I am hot.

You could also consider buying Platypus bags and accessories (tube, etc) individually, w/o a 'backpack', and store the water(bag) in your handlebar bag. You can run the tube between the zipper and attach the tube to a location on the handlebar that you find is convenient. This way, there's relatively less arm movement to pick up a tube as compared to reaching for a bottle and getting the spout open. My handlebar bag has two zipper pulls, so, I can maneuver the tube to almost any location.

I use the platypus bags now instead of nalgene bottles because I'm concerned about the plastic leaching. It's worked well, for the most part. When I've finished drinking what is in the bag, it folds up nice-and-flat. They are also lighter than bottles, so, those shedding every ounce than can might find these useful. In a car, I don't have to mess with a lid or pull top; I can simply use the tube to get a drink.

The problems I can fore-see with this idea is water is heavy and putting that much weight on the handlebar might not be reasonable for you. Also, with the tube between the zipper, you won't be able to close the zipper entirely nor will you be able to put the zipper-cover over the zipper at that spot, so, rain could get inside the handlebar bag. Just make sure the other stuff in the handlebar bag (if any) won't be damaged by water and/or is stored in a ziploc bag.

Aside: these bags work great for transporting a bottle of wine. The larger platypus bags hold an entire bottle of wine. The plastic isn't reactive (unlike nalgene), so there's no worry about funny tasting wine (or worse, petro-chemical leaching). I tested the technique on an over-night hiking trip, and worked like a charm. You can divvy weight of the wine amongst you and your friends if each of you has one of the smaller platypus sizes. No sense hauling their wine for them! :p

I don't want all the weight on my back. For my tour I will have three 28 oz bottles on the frame and then two dromedary bags. I haven't decided what size I will get. Most likely I'll buy two 4 L bags. They're indestructible and collapse down great when not filled with water. I chose to use bottles because I don't want all the weight on my body while riding. I sweat a lot so having the amount of water I need on my back makes no sense to me.

I sweat a lot too. That's the main reason I wear a Camelbak. Like other's have said, you really do end up drinking more when you wear one then when you don't (I've ridden, and still ride, with either one). There's nothing worse than tepid water from a water bottle :p With the Camelbak packed with ice, it's much less sweaty...the ice cools you a little. I do understand people's objections to the weight but I found the benefits outweigh the liabilities.

I'm not saying that you have to ride with one but try one on a long hot ride before you decide against it entirely.

23 pounds of water?!?!


I don't think it'll be that heavy, but yea I plan on carrying a lot of water with me. When I say I sweat a lot I mean it. I've mentioned it here before. When I do my normal workout routine which takes about an hour and a half I go through nearly 1.75 L of water. So on a long tour I want to be prepared. I'm surprised more people aren't the same. Do I have a glandular condition?

I actually receive a decent amount of flak for riding my road bike on long rides with a Camelbak and water bottles. I don't understand how people can give me hell when I am usually one of the first people to get to the top of a climb.

I am thinking about possibly adding two extra water bottle cages behind the bike saddle (like on a tri bike), but don't know for sure yet.

Depends on how far you ride unsupported and how hot it gets where you live. When I lived in the Mojave Desert area of California I took 2 to 3 24 ounce Polar water bottles on my bike for most weekday rides...but on weekends when I would take 60+ mile rides 3 water bottles wouldn't cut it, so I ADDED a 70oz Camelback Rogue so I could make the distance. But most places I rode I would not have been able to find water so I had to carry it. Occasionally I did a 153 mile one day ride, but by the time I got to the half way point it was time to find water, but fortunately there was a town with stores at that point of the ride to get water and food.

I prefer water bottles over something on my back, but sometimes for longer rides you need both unless your able to refill your bottles at some point during the ride. It's also better to take more water then you think you'll need. So if you only use 2 bottles then take a third just in case you get lost or something happens and your on the road longer then planned.

I use an oversized 44oz stainless steel bottle (http://www.vwvagabonds.com/Bike/BikeWaterBottles.html) and with a Cannondale cage that allows for easy access while riding.

http://www.vwvagabonds.com/Bike/images/BikeKleanKanteen.JPG

Also, a water bladder can be useful as it shrinks to fit wherever you chose to carry it.

I have been looking for something to carry a bigger bottle. Does this Cannondale cage hold a big bottle easily and securely when pushed open by the larger diameter bottles?

How about strapping the camelback on your panniers? This works better if you have a small daypack that the Camelback goes in. It insulates better too. I tried it once and it worked fine. I drink a loooooot of water so I have to have a Camelback.

I have been considering how to fasten my Source bladder to the shelf on my front rack.

Supplements
You can also get one of these, to make it easy to drink...

http://www.bikesportz.com.au/assets/products/minoura/bidons/bh2/mounted_BIG.jpg
Here is my touring bike with a bottle cage clamped to the handlebar with a modified bottle with straw. I refill that bottle from my other bottles.
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r154/n4zou/loaded.jpg

Thanks for everyones assistance - I think I'll try a couple overnighters to see what I like the best before the big trip. Nothing that any of you said gave me a clear cut choice - again thanks for all the the advice. Mike

I carry three bottles and a camelback on a cross country. Fill the bottles everyday but use the camelbak only on those days that are long, hot, and full of nothing.

Seems to come down to preference. I've never used CBs. My current favorite is the large spigot nalgene lexan bottles. Easy to grab, and one can sip or guzzle.

Like any heavily marketed product I periodically succumb to the hype around CBs and check them out. The one thing that put me off a little is the instructions relative to keeping them clean. Sounds difficult to carry out in the kind of water environment I am on on the road. Lots of nooks and crannies to keep well flushed out.

When I used to row our coach was always arguing with us over taking in cold water. Finally he got a very eminent sports doctor who worked with some famous LA basketball team to tell us off about it. Too long ago to mean anything today. I doubt though that it comes down to one thing. In the broader picture there are a lot or potential issues from how you deal with heat when you can't get ice; or what's in the road ice; to how it weakens the immune system; to volume of water in ice, etc... I can't say I have ever suffered from cool drinks. Also warm water is unlikely to be the "hot" in hot versus cold water arguments. under most conditions I would encounter it would never get hotter than body temp, and it would qualify as imperceptibly cool not warm or hot, in the example given. Until you are drinking tea or something it's not going to be very hot.

Peter-
The Camelbak isn't too bad to care for, at least at home. You can use the available brush set, and a drop of bleach to clean it out. Then let it air dry with either the hanger CB sells, or with your own device. Otherwise, you can also store it in the freezer between uses without cleaning it out. It's not going to get too funky in a week or two without doing either though. (Just don't put anything but straight water in it!) No less, I'm still only a CB advocate for mtb.

Seeing some of the handle bar mounted bottle cages, has anyone ever tried putting a camelback reservoir in a handle bar bag? Would the weight throw off the steering?

I was talked out of buying a Camelbak many years ago by a fellow rider who said they are a PITA to keep clean. However, judging from the aroma that comes from the insides of some of my bottles, I often wonder just what the hell's living inside of them !!! And somehow cleaning with bleach doesn't seem like the healthiest option either. A little mold may smell and taste bad, but Clorox will kill ya !!

Have the bike carry it, rather than your back.

Agreed. I don't think Camelbacks are particularly heavy when full, but I really just don't like riding with anything on my back at all. I find it really annoying.

I used to use the smaller camelbak that only covers the hips, but now only bother with a pair of water bottles when on tour, and a single on my commute. Of course thats in New Zealands' temperate climate, with water pretty easy to find generally. I prefer not to have the weight on me on the balance.
When I was using it I fashioned a bend out of a piece of copper tube, and attached a small clip so I could clip it on to my helmet strap. I could have a drink with only the slightest movement of my head which was handy. Another thing that was fun sometimes was to fill it 50/50 with fruit juice and lemonade fizzpop. The fizz would make it come out on its own, you just had to bite the valve, no suck. Odd really - you have all the energy to bike along loaded, but can't be bothered with having to suck some drink up :-)

Im personaly use two 2Ls cokes botlles (insulated) strap to my stack as a suplement water. When my 3 water bottles are empty I simply stop in a nice place fill my bottles up and keep riding
I was thinking maybe I can run a tube from one of this coke bottles in the back and drink direct from them, the only thing is that the cords are squeezing this coke bottles little bit.
I just dont own a CB and probably never will, not for long distance touring in a bicycle anyways.

Ozarkman

And somehow cleaning with bleach doesn't seem like the healthiest option either. A little mold may smell and taste bad, but Clorox will kill ya !!

In large amounts, sure, bleach will kill you; but they put basically the same thing in public pools, and I've never been able to go for a swim without getting at least some water in my mouth. For that matter most tap water has a bit of chlorine in it as well.

(And before you go off on tap water, at least from a taste point of view, there was a taste test by some very reputable foodie folks a few years back of bottled water - the unanimous winner was the Minneapolis tap water which was there as a control.)

If you use just a drop or two of bleach for your CB (actually, the appropriate proportion for true sanitization of a food/drink container is 1 teaspoon for every cup of water used) (http://www.bt.cdc.gov/disasters/bleach.asp), and then rinse it out, it is simply not an issue. Hell, the FDA, WHO, CDC, and every other health organization recommends bleach for cleaning most food preparation surfaces and storage containers. You don't want to drink large amounts of the stuff, but it does a better job of killing viruses, bacteria, and other microscopic beasties than just about anything else.


Gabriel

WHY NOT CARRY AN ESKY?

I do, in one of my rear panniers, when I'm expecting to need to go long distances between services. Accross the Nullarbor Plain in Australia, for instance, most services are about 200km (130miles) apart, and there are longer gaps again when one travels up through the centre of the continent. An esky, with ice-packs, guarantees ice-cold water, plus provides storage for rolls and other spoilable food. Of course, it is only a supplement to my other water storages, which include 5 water bottles (3 in the triangle; two behind the saddle - all covered by wet socks, which keeps them cool) plus a insulated CP which I usually keep on the top on one of my paniers - rather than wearing it on my back.

all covered by wet socks, which keeps them cool

This works really well, keeps the bottle cool for an hour or two and easy to replenish if you have spare water.

An esky is pretty bulky - I guess in your situation it is worth it, if you need to store perishable food.

I like wine cask bladders for excess "just in case" capacity - much more compact than platypus bags.



yea I plan on carrying a lot of water with me. When I say I sweat a lot I mean it. I've mentioned it here before. When I do my normal workout routine which takes about an hour and a half I go through nearly 1.75 L of water.

About .75 to 1 L per hour is considered average in moderate heat, but amounts needed vary between individuals, the amount of exercise and the temperature. If you are producing dilute urine then you are drinking enough (unless excess caffeine, alcohol or other diuretics are confusing the picture); no other convenient way of estimating (thirst is not accurate or adequate).

You will probably be exercising at a lower intensity when touring, and the breeze will help a little with cooling, but offsetting this you have little control over conditions other than to start at/before 6am if it is going to be a hot day.

I think extra storage is a great idea, as mentioned above I like the lighter mylar wine/water bladders. Dromedary/platypus/whatever would be more robust. Will there be enough room in your panniers, or will you need some other form of attachment to your bike?

I have been looking for something to carry a bigger bottle. Does this Cannondale cage hold a big bottle easily and securely when pushed open by the larger diameter bottles?

Sorry for the delay in responding...we've been lost in the Mekong Delta for a few days.

Yes, the Cannondale cage will hold a big bottle like a Nalgene...but... it would not hold it well in the upright position. I had to spread the "wings" a bit but it has worked. Notice in the photo that I've mounted my larger bottle in a semi-horizontal position. It has not yet fallen out... and we've hit some rough roads recently here in Vietnam.

we've been lost in the Mekong Delta for a few days.

(Sigh...) Lucky bastards....