Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - New to biking need help!

Hey guys, I am going to be doing an ironman this fall and I have never biked competitively before. I will be honest, I thought the biking part would be a piece of cake, but I am now seeing how ignorant I was. Here is a little background on me:
I ran xc and track in college, I am a long distance runner (thats why I thought I would be able to pick up biking easily). I have run 100 miles a week before and my marathon time is 2:35. Since I decided to do the ironman 4 months ago, I have (along with running and swimming) been trying to bike 5-6 days a week. I live in madison, wi so all of my bike experience to this point have been on an indoor trainer in my apartment and going to spinning classes. My bike is a Cannondale Ironman 800. My goal for the 112 mile bike leg of the ironman is 5:30. My questions are: What kind of mileage should I be putting in during the spring and summer in order to achieve this? What type of workouts do I do? Is my goal too lofty? Are there any time trials or workouts I could do where I could evaluate where I am at in relation to my 5:30 goal? Will my bike be ok for this? Like I said before, I am completely new, completely ignorant, and maybe these are stupid questions but I am really ready to learn! Any tips or advice would be great. Thanks guys!

Go to Ultracycling.com (http://www.ultracycling.com)and look at some of the training write-ups. You can also check out the race and ride schedule to see if there are any 100 milers near you coming up. Active.com should also have some tri events you can check out. What part of the world are you in?

I live in madison, wisconsin

I live in madison, wisconsin
Sorry, I missed that part. :lol:

I am also a better runner and swimmer than cyclist. For years I would get out of the drink in good position then lose it on the bike and try my best to make it up in the run. I joined the Triathlon Club of San Diego (http://www.triclubsandiego.org/) and got some good pointers. Many of the worlds best triathletes are contributing editors to the free online mag... give it a look.

Hey guys, I am going to be doing an ironman this fall and I have never biked competitively before. I will be honest, I thought the biking part would be a piece of cake, but I am now seeing how ignorant I was. Here is a little background on me:
I ran xc and track in college, I am a long distance runner (thats why I thought I would be able to pick up biking easily). I have run 100 miles a week before and my marathon time is 2:35. Since I decided to do the ironman 4 months ago, I have (along with running and swimming) been trying to bike 5-6 days a week. I live in madison, wi so all of my bike experience to this point have been on an indoor trainer in my apartment and going to spinning classes. My bike is a Cannondale Ironman 800. My goal for the 112 mile bike leg of the ironman is 5:30. My questions are: What kind of mileage should I be putting in during the spring and summer in order to achieve this? What type of workouts do I do? Is my goal too lofty? Are there any time trials or workouts I could do where I could evaluate where I am at in relation to my 5:30 goal? Will my bike be ok for this? Like I said before, I am completely new, completely ignorant, and maybe these are stupid questions but I am really ready to learn! Any tips or advice would be great. Thanks guys!

There is a triathlon forum where you might want to ask. It's not clear to me whether you have previous tri experience or not, but if you don't I think you'd want to work your way up to the ironman.

The bike you have is going to be reasonably aero, but to finish in 5:30 means you're going to need to average 20 MPH for the whole ride. That's challenging unless the course is really flat.

I think you need to work with a coach to do what you want to do, and I think a smaller goal might be more appropriate. But go ask the triathletes.

Are there any time trials or workouts I could do where I could evaluate where I am at in relation to my 5:30 goal?Well, if I understand your question correctly, you want to know if you can "aim" for a 5:30 bike leg during a full Ironman triathlon.

If you really want to discuss this matter, I'd be happy to help. I've done statistical analysis for several Ironman finishers relating to achieving "best case" finishes based on their relative strengths and weaknesses.

It would be helpful to know, your age, gender and weight, as well as your recent "known" cycling capacity.

In addition, your swimming and runnings goals need to be estimated.

I need to know the event you intend to enter as well. Hopefully, several years of results are still available for review.

Yes, if I can review all the information and your best objective guesses about your current running and swimming abilities, I can give a set of "goal windows" that will represent what the strength/weakness factors for each leg of the event as well as over all finish times for each age-division class winners.

Obviously, without knowing conditions, the 5:30 for the bike leg estimate sounds realistic.

I used to ride with an ex-runner who was at 135 miles per week when he had to stop running. He was so strong on the bike, even in the hills, that he shocked everyone in our road club. The problem was his lack of handling skills from so little bike saddle time, and he had some bad crashes. I feel like a jerk for mentioning this, but I think it's important to work on your bike skills beyond just speed.
Did you ever read about Dave Scott's training?
Any road clubs in your area? They could get you to a fast century time.

Ok,

I am 24 years old, (25 on day of competition) 5'10, 140 lbs. I have absolutely no previous biking experience besides doing the spinning classes for 60 min at the local health club 5-6 days a week. I totally agree that I need to work on my bike handling skills. I have had no prior ironman or triathlon experience although I plan on doing a couple this summer before the full distance in the fall. I am doing the Ironman Wisconsin. The other day I swam 2.5 miles at the local swimming pool (25m) in 60:46. I do not know how to flip turn. My marathon time is 2:35. So despite my being a beginner, I feel like I have a pretty good aerobic capacity and have the mental toughness to push myself really hard. Hopefully this helps, I would love it if you would be able to do a statistical analysis for me. If you need anymore info let me know. As far as getting a coach, I think that would be ideal, but I do not want to pay money when I feel like I have a decent knowledge of how to get myself in shape. Thanks for the help guys!

Any distance runners or marathoners I have ridden with always do very well on the bike as far as climbing, speed on the flats, and medium distance. I would suggest you get fitted on the bike by someone who knows fitting for triathlons, and then get some saddle time. I think you'll be fine.

The other day I swam 2.5 miles at the local swimming pool (25m) in 60:46. I do not know how to flip turn. My marathon time is 2:35.Ok, I loaded the 2006 Ford Wisconsin results........

I need to know if that was a "typical year" - weather wise or if data from another year should be added.

I need to know what you "think" your swim goal will be, not what you do in a pool. I need to know, what your running economy is. In other words, your marathon-pace, at primarily "aerobic threshold."

Obviously, I guess you already know that if could perform a 61:00 minute swim, do the 5:30 bike, and run a PR, you'd be challenging the top Pros...... but - real people have to choose "reality pacing."

Make sure you know if other years had better or worse weather......otherwise the data doesn't work. Oh, yeah, and make sure you find out about how any course changes will affect the race difficulty.

Ok to start, I am not doing it just to finish, I am doing it because I want to do really well. My goal for the swim is 65 minutes, bike goal time is 5:30, marathon time is 3:00. I am a very efficient runner. I can run 6:00 pace pretty easily for 15 or so miles before I start to feel any soreness. So my aerobic threshold is right around 6:00 min/mile. I realize however that after the swim and bike I will be hurting pretty badly so I feel like a goal of 7:00/mile is realistic. While I know I am not going to win, I have three goals: to break 10 hours, to qualify for hawaii, and to be in the top 20. I am not doing this just to finish and say I am an ironman. I am confident in my swim and run goals that is why I want to know how realistic a 5:30 bike is for me. If I can do that I feel like I can beat a couple of the pros back in the pack. Last year was cold and rainy, the year before, 2005, was really hot. I honestly dont know about 2004 (hopefully you can still do it without the weather info on that day). There have been no course changes the last 3 years.

Ok to start, I am not doing it just to finish, I am doing it because I want to do really well. My goal for the swim is 65 minutes, bike goal time is 5:30, marathon time is 3:00. I am a very efficient runner. I can run 6:00 pace pretty easily for 15 or so miles before I start to feel any soreness. So my aerobic threshold is right around 6:00 min/mile. I realize however that after the swim and bike I will be hurting pretty badly so I feel like a goal of 7:00/mile is realistic. While I know I am not going to win, I have three goals: to break 10 hours, to qualify for hawaii, and to be in the top 20. I am not doing this just to finish and say I am an ironman. I am confident in my swim and run goals that is why I want to know how realistic a 5:30 bike is for me. If I can do that I feel like I can beat a couple of the pros back in the pack. Last year was cold and rainy, the year before, 2005, was really hot. I honestly dont know about 2004 (hopefully you can still do it without the weather info on that day). There have been no course changes the last 3 years.


The problem is that it is really hard to say without knowing how difficult the bike course is. If it is flat, 5:30 is eminently possible for any cyclist in reasonable shape. On the other hand, if you are riding in hill country 5:30 might be a stretch for anyone who isn't in primo shape. Elevation changes are going to have a major impact on your time.

Ok. Sure, you can pick 5:30. In fact, the fact that you "think it's right" may be more important than the stress of going with a strategy that "numbers" produce.

Give me a day to grab the other results, more is probably better..... People riding between 5:29 to 5:32 in 2006 finished between 9:42 to 11:08..... But, understand that's not what I'm going after.......

I'm going to "predict", your best case scenario, based on the most "successful balances" of each event-leg times....... In other words, I'll give the most successful time-ratio between each leg, it's up to you to "slant it" or favor the ratio at your running leg.

Here is data, from 2004, 2005, 2006 - this data is in response to "goal of finishing in top 20"

Median finishing time for top 20 overall is 9:39. Three finishers exceeded 10:00 hours.

Median time for swim is 57:00, three slowest finishers, all at 65:00

Median time for bike is 5:09, three finishers at 5:30, two finishers over 5:34, 5:35

Median time for run is 3:16, four finishers at 3:00 or below, 10 finishers at 3:30 or slower......

The conclusion, I would draw for this data would be that you need to swim a sub -65:00 leg, ride your 5:30 bike-goal, and make up 8 minutes of swim time and 11 minutes of bike time by running a 2:57 marathon.

Whatever you can do aim toward a 5:09 bike time, obviously will pay the most "dividends." Of course, any time below 65:00 in the swim can be added toward the run. And please understand, each leg is analyzed as a "median" so if you could actually perform all your goals, the statistics would point to a 10th, 11th place finish overall.

So this is the data for a "top 20" scenario, I doubt I need to go into a "sub 10 hour" deal, you already can figure what your need for that. If you want the sheets, or want me to find some "names" you can "mark" for comparison - email me mercian753 at the com of yahoo.

Median time for bike is 5:09, three finishers at 5:30, two finishers over 5:34, 5:35

Wow, a 5:09 112 without drafting, that's awesome! Even when it's not sandwiched between the swim and the run.

You should definitely seek out some tri specific advice if you don't go for a coach. The whole prospect of running and swimming scares me, so there will be no tri's for me. However, I know to some degree, that tri's swim differently than competitive swimmers. They use their arms a lot more and drag the legs. This allows them to save their legs for the biking and running, even if it's not the most efficient, powerful swimming technique. I have to think there are all sorts of techniques like that.

What type of speed and distances have you been doing? Even on the trainer, what speeds and time have you been spending?

Looks like "triguy10" is long gone, other stats, using 5:29-5::31 bike times --- median finish 10:37, with a 65:00 minute swim and a 3:46 marathon. Only 6 of 41 broke ten hours with an average marathon time of 3:12:30...

Either triguy needs to bike faster -or he will post one of the most unbalanced bike-to-run stats in history!
Using records for sub 3:30 marathons, the median bike time is 5:31.........median run at 3:22

Im still here! Sorry i am new to biking threads and I totally forget about it. Sounds like I may have to plan on a faster bike time if I want to meet my goal (or go for the most unbalanced record!). To the poster that wanted to know how fast I go on my trainer. I go to spinning classes 5 times a week for 60 minutes each. My recovery is done on the trainer for usually 90 min at 19-20 mph and it feels pretty relaxed. I have no idea what that means though. Sorry it took so long to get back, ill try and keep up. Sounds like I might need a coach to help point me in the right direction.

Yeah, I don't know, I took the 4500 records from three years and crunched from a "top 20" and sub-10 angles. In the past, I've taken entire results and extracted the "leg-ratios" for division winners at all ages. I doubt that is of any value here.

In your case, you need to be asking previous finishers about their bike-to-run ratio. The best case scenario is to be training with some one that has a "5:30" bike time capability, and then maintaining what you know you need to do to make the near 3:00 run leg.

There's so many things, so many angles I could tell you about. For instance, if it's hot, you HAVE to go all out on the bike, because you'll die during the run, no matter your ability. If it's cool, then you can afford the luxury of pacing and hoping you'll make up more in the run...... Find people who have ridden 5:30 on that course, that's where your help is.......

Very interesting stuff, Richard.