Training & Nutrition - Please critique my diet idea

Hey everyone! Long time onlooker, but never really involved (pretty much all my questions have been answered in the archives). I've been trying to put together a diet that will help me accomplish a few goals and would like to ask for your opinions on it. An IDEAL diet for me is one that fuels me adequately for training and improvement on the bike, promotes fat loss, and reduces muscle loss. I have about 20-25lbs. of body fat to lose before I'd consider myself in optimal cycling fitness. I can afford to lose a little upper body muscle mass, but want to minimize core and leg muscle loss. So here's my diet idea based on a typical day with a 1-2 hour training ride. Half that time spent around LT, the other half at tempo.

Meal 1: V8 - Low sodium
Slimfast Shake


Meal 2: 1 Pint Skim Milk
1.5 scoop whey protein powder


Meal 3: Chicken Breast
1/2 cup carrots


Meal 4: Yougurt
V8 - Low sodium


On bike: Water


At 1 hour on
bike or finish: Banana


Post Ride: 1 scoop Creatine
1 scoop vinillia whey protein
10oz. OJ or Apple Juice
1 cup frozen blueberries

Meal 5: Chicken Breast
3 cups romaine lettuce


Meal 6: 1 cup Skim Milk
1 scoop cassin protein powder


Good Night.....

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Nutrition Facts:


Calories: 2140

Fat: 31g
Sat: 11g
Poly: 4g
Mono: 8g

Carbs: 238g
Fiber 23g

Protein: 230g
-------------------------------------------------------

I have other diet plans based off of this for longer rides (up to 5hrs. for my centuries) and one plan for my weight training days. Biggest difference is more carbs for longer rides, fewer carbs for weight days. If you guys see any obvious problems or have any suggestions, PLEASE don't hesitate to comment.

Thanks in advance!

-Tony B

all the protein powder supplementation...expensive.
Probably low on vitamins and minerals as well.

More fruits and vegetables, methinks.....

Less protein powder and more poultry/fish.

Good idea on the fruits and veggies, good antioxidants and starchy carbs, yum yum. I forgot to mention that I take a men's multi vitamin in the morning along with 18 fish oils and 18 desiccated beef liver tabs throughout the day. So that's another 180 calories from fat (fish oil) and an extra 144 calories from protein (beef liver).

I also forgot to mention my vitals: 25yo, 177lbs., 5'9", 15%bf

Thanks again!

<----Huge fan of tuna! I'll do some substituting. Great idea!

bread pasta oats rice potato yam mmm

I would starve without more filling 'real' food.

More fruits and vegetables, methinks.....

Agree 100%. You need more real food in there, and in particular fruits/veggies. Don't worry about the fruit sugar (technically a simple sugar) as it has a very low glycemic index of about 22 (compared to glucose which is 100).

get rid of the slimfast and make it a regular casein containing shake. Slimfast is HORRIBLE. I would also suggest that you're not getting much healthy fat at all. Put a tablespoon of ground flaxseed in the am protein Add in a few tablespoons of quality fish oil. Throw a half of an avocado in another shake. Get rid of the apple juice and put those calories to good use with a meal with more real fruit and veggies.

And ignore those who say get rid of the protein powder. It's cheaper than whole food and gets you a lot of protein per meal, which is necessary. I would even go so far as to add in a half or full scoop into the yogurt in meal #4.

Once you balance in some healthy fats you should be rocking. You didn't mention how much you weight but even while dieting you're likely coming in too low calorie-wise and will need to adjust upwards. Adding in the healthy fat will take car of that and take care of your brain and joint function at the same time. Fat is also thermogenic and anabolic, so you got that going for you, which is nice.

Slim fast is pure sugar plus fiber and a vitamin pill. You might as well down a few packets of sugar while filling up on Metamucil. Try eating really food. Vegetable soup can be very filling. Eat more chicken and fish.

Get rid of the apple juice and put those calories to good use with a meal with more real fruit and veggies.

What would be a better juice in your opinion? I like to use it in my post exercise creatine shake. How about V8 Fusion? Tastes pretty good and has a full serving of both fruits and veggies.

I am getting quite a bit of good fats (in my opinion) from the butt-load of fish oil that I take. Is Flax really any better than fish oil? I also like to throw in some cod liver oil to my creatine shake.

My vitals are: 25yo, 177lbs., 5'9", 15%bf

Thanks for the good ideas everyone!

OKAY!!! No slimfast. I also just learned that it contains trans fats! WTF!? A drink for dieters that contain trans fats... Odd world we live in.

What would be a better juice in your opinion? I like to use it in my post exercise creatine shake. How about V8 Fusion? Tastes pretty good and has a full serving of both fruits and veggies.

I am getting quite a bit of good fats (in my opinion) from the butt-load of fish oil that I take. Is Flax really any better than fish oil? I also like to throw in some cod liver oil to my creatine shake.

My vitals are: 25yo, 177lbs., 5'9", 15%bf

Thanks for the good ideas everyone!

You really seem to want a non-food solution to your problem. Why? Trust me on this: stick to foods that are the least processed and you'll lose fat (with exercise). Every suggestion someone gives you, you come back with a proessed alternative. Stay away from all that and make your diet 100% real/whole foods.

Nutrition Facts:


Calories: 2140

Fat: 31g
Sat: 11g
Poly: 4g
Mono: 8g

Carbs: 238g
Fiber 23g

Protein: 230g

A quick look shows this as your calorie ratio:

Fat: 6%
Carb: 48%
Protein: 46%

Generally speaking, you should be looking at more of a:

Fat=15%
Carb=60%
Protein=25%

You're looking at WAY too much protein, and not enough carbs for hard riding. You also need some healthy fats in there.

What would be a better juice in your opinion? I like to use it in my post exercise creatine shake. How about V8 Fusion? Tastes pretty good and has a full serving of both fruits and veggies.

I am getting quite a bit of good fats (in my opinion) from the butt-load of fish oil that I take. Is Flax really any better than fish oil? I also like to throw in some cod liver oil to my creatine shake.

My vitals are: 25yo, 177lbs., 5'9", 15%bf

Thanks for the good ideas everyone!

I'm saying get rid of the juice entirely. Empty calories. You should never consume something when dieting that won't have any effect other than raise blood sugar! Replace juice with good carbs that will have a positive benefit such as green veggies or such. You need a bit more whole food anyway.

Flax is not better than fish oil - it's simply a different source. And you didn't mention it in your list before, so be sure you count those as calories.

Disagree with aikigreg on the juice. You have those simple carbs exactly where you need them: post ride.

Why? Trust me on this: stick to foods that are the least processed and you'll lose fat (with exercise).

What's your take on mayonnaise?

Food pyramid

Small portions (i.e., moderation)

Excercise

OKAY!!! No slimfast. I also just learned that it contains trans fats! WTF!? A drink for dieters that contain trans fats... Odd world we live in.

I just checked my wife's bars and shakes and it says 0 Trans Fat on both.

Check the ingredients, the shake contains hydrogenated soybean oil.

Didn't have to check your diet, the fact that you are asking about it is proof you have problems.

Normal people usually learn how to eat by the time they learn how to type.

Disagree with aikigreg on the juice. You have those simple carbs exactly where you need them: post ride.

I'd agree with you if he had enough carbs coming from veggies. If he'll add a half cup veggies to every meal, I'll give you back the juice :)

The food pyramid is the worst invention EVAR. What kind of person trusts the government to dictate the proper way to eat?


Food pyramid

Small portions (i.e., moderation)

Excercise

The food pyramid is the worst invention EVAR. What kind of person trusts the government to dictate the proper way to eat?

I do. I'm 57 years old, 5'8", 155 lbs. No cholesterol problems, no high blood pressure, no diabetes. I bike 6000 miles a year. No gel paks, no energy drinks, no whey blah blah blah.

Just the food pyramid, moderation and exercise. I feel great, have lots of energy for kids (I teach Chemistry) and I coach Science Olympiad.

Didn't have to check your diet, the fact that you are asking about it is proof you have problems.

Normal people usually learn how to eat by the time they learn how to type.
thats not true...........

I do. I'm 57 years old, 5'8", 155 lbs. No cholesterol problems, no high blood pressure, no diabetes. I bike 6000 miles a year. No gel paks, no energy drinks, no whey blah blah blah.

Just the food pyramid, moderation and exercise. I feel great, have lots of energy for kids (I teach Chemistry) and I coach Science Olympiad.


The exception proves the rule.

Check the ingredients, the shake contains hydrogenated soybean oil.

Nope, not the ingredients on the Chocolate ones. At least in our refridgerator. 0 transfat and 0 hydrogenated anything per the labels.

slimfast is still crap

slimfast is still crap
+1.

Hey everyone! Long time onlooker, but never really involved (pretty much all my questions have been answered in the archives). I've been trying to put together a diet that will help me accomplish a few goals and would like to ask for your opinions on it. An IDEAL diet for me is one that fuels me adequately for training and improvement on the bike, promotes fat loss, and reduces muscle loss. I have about 20-25lbs. of body fat to lose before I'd consider myself in optimal cycling fitness. I can afford to lose a little upper body muscle mass, but want to minimize core and leg muscle loss. So here's my diet idea based on a typical day with a 1-2 hour training ride. Half that time spent around LT, the other half at tempo.

Meal 1: V8 - Low sodium
Slimfast Shake


Meal 2: 1 Pint Skim Milk
1.5 scoop whey protein powder


Meal 3: Chicken Breast
1/2 cup carrots


Meal 4: Yougurt
V8 - Low sodium


On bike: Water


At 1 hour on
bike or finish: Banana


Post Ride: 1 scoop Creatine
1 scoop vinillia whey protein
10oz. OJ or Apple Juice
1 cup frozen blueberries

Meal 5: Chicken Breast
3 cups romaine lettuce


Meal 6: 1 cup Skim Milk
1 scoop cassin protein powder


Good Night.....

--------------------------------------------------------
Nutrition Facts:


Calories: 2140

Fat: 31g
Sat: 11g
Poly: 4g
Mono: 8g

Carbs: 238g
Fiber 23g

Protein: 230g
-------------------------------------------------------

I have other diet plans based off of this for longer rides (up to 5hrs. for my centuries) and one plan for my weight training days. Biggest difference is more carbs for longer rides, fewer carbs for weight days. If you guys see any obvious problems or have any suggestions, PLEASE don't hesitate to comment.

Thanks in advance!

-Tony B

I agree with everybody who says you need to eat real food. If you are only wanting to lose reasonable amounts of weight, focus on eating in a way that you could eat for a long term.

I notice you have no complex carbs at all. Brown rice, whole wheat bread, etc. are good things to eat.

The only non-foods I eat are Accelerade (during the ride) and Endurox afterwards. They work better than food for me.

slimfast is still crap

I never said it wasn't. But there are apparently no Trans fats either. :D

You need to customize the daily diet to match the workouts. The days when you're doing centuries is going to require about 3000-3500 calories at 70% carbs or so. I'd aim for real foods rather than all that processed stuff you're looking at.

Also your goal of minimizing muscle-loss requires you to focus on post-ride nutrition. Low-glycogen levels after the ride will cause your body to disassemble perfectly good muscle-tissue to convert to glucose to replenish your glycogen supply. A 4:1 carb-protein mix is typically the best for recovery. The protein actually doesn't go into muscles, but rather causes a higher-than-carb-only insulin-spike which moves the glucose into the muscle cells even faster. The protein itself goes into a intra-muscular amino-acid pool to be used to rebuild the muscles later.

Also your workouts are too simplistic. High-intensity training (sprints & intervals) are better for burning off lots of calories per hour given your training time of 1-2 hours. These H.I.T. workout also elevate your basal-metabolism and burns off more calories for hours after the workout; something that doesn't occur with aerobic workouts like tempo & LT training. You'll also need one day of real endurance a week, 2-3 hours @ LSD pace (slower than tempo). The 2nd and 3rd hour of these rides burns off 3-5x more fat per hour than the 1st hour alone.

Danno! Thank you kindly for your words of wisdom, I was hoping you would reply. You definitely know your stuff.

My diet does indeed jump up to about 3500 calories on my century day, that's when I reward myself with pasta and other high carb meals post ride. My post workout shake is at a 5:1 carb-protein mix, so I guess I'll up the protein just a tad.

My training plan for this year follows Joe Friel's Cyclist's Training Bible. (Still reading and devising a firm plan.) The 2-3 hours of LSD sounds like a good recovery day, and the fat burning properties you described is a big plus! My problem is that I always end up going too fast, even when I hit the road with the specific purpose of a recovery ride... Gotta learn to slow it down I guess.

Thanks everyone for all the good advice. I have taken notice of my lack of "real food" and have have added a bunch of different good foods (tomatoes, avocados, almonds, bananas, carrots, spinach, etc.) I've also substituted tuna in as a protein source, and every now and then some red meat.

Oh! And the Slim Fast with the trans fats is the new Optimo Shakes, chocolate flavor. (Not sure about the other flavors.) It lists 0g trans fat but in the ingredients it lists hydrogenated soybean oil.

Thanks again!

My training plan for this year follows Joe Friel's Cyclist's Training Bible. (Still reading and devising a firm plan.) The 2-3 hours of LSD sounds like a good recovery day, and the fat burning properties you described is a big plus! My problem is that I always end up going too fast, even when I hit the road with the specific purpose of a recovery ride... Gotta learn to slow it down I guess.Sounds like you're on the right track! Keep a log for later review as the feedback will allow you to modify your training & nutrition to give better and faster results.

Recovery rides are usually just 1-hour at 55-60%. So yes, it's hard to keep the pace slow on recovery. But 2-3 hours endurance/LSD is typically done at 65-75% MHR and isn't a recovery day. Not too many worries about going too fast on such a ride as doing so will end up forcing you to go slow due to a bonk or fatigue by the 3rd hour anyway. ;) That's why you want to keep a steady pace.

If you do just 2 days of sprints & intervals once a week, you'll get plenty of intensity in and won't be too eager to ride fast on your endurance and recovery days. Have fun! :)

here are my comments:

1) replace slimfast shake with real food. have you read the ingredient statement of a slimfast shake? try something like a pbj sandwich on whole wheat bread or an egg white vegetable (instead of V-8) omelet...etc.

2) 10 ounces of juice is too much. eat whole fruit instead of drinking juice. juice is just sugar water. whole fruit has fiber and will fill you up. if you are trying to lose weight it is not a good idea to have your calories come from beverages. if you really like the taste of juice, than at least have less, such as 4 ounces with breakfast.

i agree with the point of complex carbs. look for whole grains. a diet that is very high in protein and very low in carbs (like atkins) is not healthy.

Please Note That Just Because The Trans Fat Label Says 0 Grams, That Legally Food Companies Can Round Down To 0...meaning, That It's Not Necessarily A True Zero. It Could Be Anywhere Between 0 And 0.4 Grams. So Check Ingredient Statement For The Words "hydrogenated" Or "partially Hydrogenated" And Avoid.

Originally Posted by Richard CraniumDidn't have to check your diet, the fact that you are asking about it is proof you have problems.

Normal people usually learn how to eat by the time they learn how to type.

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The above is extremely rude and extremely untrue.

The best diet advice I've seen lately was from Michael Pollan:

"Eat real food. Eat less of it. Most of it should come from plant sources."

To elaborate, he said that most food you eat should be food that would be recognizable to your great-grandmother (that is "real food"). Portion sizes have increased enormously in the last 50 years. Eat lots of fruits, vegetables, grains and nuts, but less dairy or meat.

That pretty much rules out protein powder. Why in the world do you think you need 230 grams of protein a day? That would practically feed an entire village doing hard farm labor. This is very hard on the kidneys, since they have to piss out all that excess protein. Literally!

The best diet advice I've seen lately was from Michael Pollan:

"Eat real food. Eat less of it. Most of it should come from plant sources."

To elaborate, he said that most food you eat should be food that would be recognizable to your great-grandmother (that is "real food"). Portion sizes have increased enormously in the last 50 years. Eat lots of fruits, vegetables, grains and nuts, but less dairy or meat.

That pretty much rules out protein powder. Why in the world do you think you need 230 grams of protein a day? That would practically feed an entire village doing hard farm labor. This is very hard on the kidneys, since they have to piss out all that excess protein. Literally!

To maintain muscle mass in a moderately active person, you need 1g/lb of protein per pound of bodyweight. An athlete needs a minimum of 1.5g/lb to maintain.

Eat protein and veggies every meal. Eat healthy fats. get at least a gram of protein per day. Or don't, and watch muscle mass slip away. Your choice.

Not an expert, but for an endurance athlete, your balance of protein to carbohydrate seems very high. I would also encourage you to ingest more complex carbohydrate.

Not an expert, but for an endurance athlete, your balance of protein to carbohydrate seems very high. I would also encourage you to ingest more complex carbohydrate.Alkigregs's about right IMHO, but it depends on the level of activity. I'm not an "athlete." I just work out a little in the evening and on Sunday.

Let's do the numbers. The balance as well as the protein amount depends on the activity level. A good way to do it is to go: OK, I weigh 155, so 1g/lb = 155g protein = ~620 kcal. Say I need 2000 kcal for normal activity and I burn 1500 kcal working out, so 3500 kcal/day. So 620/3500 = 18% protein. I'll probably eat 20% fat, too. That leaves 2170 kcal of carbs or 62%. That's right in there with what endurance nutritionists specify. If we hold that 62% but dial up the activity level, it won't take too much before we'll hit alkigreg's 1.5g/lb.

I always figured it was 1.25g/lb of lean body mass, but that's about the same thing. Because I'm an ovo/lacto/piscetarian, I supplement with 60g of whey protein/day, leaving 95 to come from diet. That seems about right. On a long average, I gain 1 lb. of lean body mass/year, so I must be doing something right.

Danno seems way low on century calorie requirements. I burned 3300 kcal on my 4 hour metric century. On a full century, my burn will be lower, but still it'll be at least 4000 kcal, plus my 2000 kcal maintenance, so 6000 kcal/day. On a double, I'll burn about 10,000 kcal total for the day. I use a 7:1 carb/protein ratio on long rides, or 85% carbs but that's 350g protein on a double, or 2.25g/lb.

Sorry for the long post, but having some real numbers to look at helps.

The best diet advice I've seen lately was from Michael Pollan:

"Eat real food. Eat less of it. Most of it should come from plant sources."

To elaborate, he said that most food you eat should be food that would be recognizable to your great-grandmother (that is "real food"). Portion sizes have increased enormously in the last 50 years. Eat lots of fruits, vegetables, grains and nuts, but less dairy or meat.

That pretty much rules out protein powder. Why in the world do you think you need 230 grams of protein a day? That would practically feed an entire village doing hard farm labor. This is very hard on the kidneys, since they have to piss out all that excess protein. Literally!
so im halfway up a mountain and my legs are wobbling i have to hold onto the break when everyone else slams a gel what do i do, eat a potato?

OKAY!!! No slimfast. I also just learned that it contains trans fats! WTF!? A drink for dieters that contain trans fats... Odd world we live in.

---

Stop trusting the food industry so much. ;)

so im halfway up a mountain and my legs are wobbling i have to hold onto the break when everyone else slams a gel what do i do, eat a potato?
No just choke down a half cup of protein powder.

Pop Tarts and coffee for me.

so in other words your ides fell at the first questioning