Vehicular Cycling (VC) - VC best practices pay off

gene, bike lanes, striped to the left of parked car zones, with a buffer, move cyclists consistently away from a curbhugging position so common by bicyclists. it moves the average cyclist out into the road by 12-14 feet away from the curb, where an 'average' and the majority of bicyclists would ride by default, right next to the curb.

municipalities can position cyclists in a more visible default road position by adding buffered bike lane networks.

This is all far from the intent of the original post and common knowledge; i'm not intent to debate this fact in this thread & add this just as clarification.

And those type of bike lanes are indeed so so rare... most do no more than put cyclist right at the curb or right in the door zone.

I fully agree that BL can and should be designed better to both guide motorists and to encourage cyclists to use the streets they have full rights to ride upon. But I am also a realist, and see what bad planning and a lack of cycling integration can bring in an auto centric society. I agree to not debate this further on this thread.

Now back to our regularly scheduled discussion. :D

. . . I have to laugh here, as motorists are highly dependent of the nanny-state. They need slot car like guidance to show them exactly where to drive, and all forms of "safety devices" to protect them lest they fail to act responsibly. And of course all that "safety" tends to just empower motorist to faster and faster.
This is part of why I love cycling. I am a lot less dependent on others. I can "adapt" my cycling to conditions more easily than drivers can. Because I know I will take longer to get where I am going, I have more freedom to pick less-traveled routes. When something goes wrong, I can almost always fix it myself without depending on a mechanic.

I love the independence of cycling.

Edited for coherence.

This is part of why I love cycling. I am a lot less dependent on others. I can "adapt" my cycling to conditions more easily than drivers can. Because I know I will take longer to get where I am going, I have more freedom to pick routes through less-traveled routes. When something goes wrong, I can almost always fix it myself without depending on a mechanic.

I love the independence of cycling.

Gotta agree with you there. Not to mention the lack of gym fees to get the exercise our bodies need.

HH,

i now know where you ride! we just returned 2 weeks ago from vacation (landed at sdca airport, saw family in carlsbad and sbca), drove on ca rt 5, 1, and 101, etc.

Apples to Oranges in comparison to bicycle inclusion evident between ca and nj! i was amazed by the bike lanes all along, that were intelligently placed, no hidden cut-offs (where there are bl here in s nj).

i wish i had rode while there. did not see any loaded tourers, lots of roadies, and a few mtb.

my bro-in-law works in la jolla for some energy company.

you ever ride on the east coast? you should see road design here (bicycle exclusion)!

be safe!

Bek's type of bike lanes are not rare here. They are the norm. They are also the result of tireless effort by bicycle advocates. Perhaps if you had bicycle advocates that rode their bikes to the meetings they would be in touch enough to understand what is needed to be done to make cycling in San Diego better.

AC is not "nanny state" dependence. It's simply how to use conditions as they exactly are right now. An Adaptive Cyclist might be in a bike lane so they use skills to handle right hook situations. Such as slowing and even stopping when a car starts to right hook them. This is exactly what HH did, so we can all say that HH was an adaptive cyclist for a day. He used the facility as provided and handled the situation based on experience (or whatever). Perhaps in the future he can use his experience to tell people how to handle right hook situations instead of contantly banging on the old boring you should be more left BS.

An Adaptive Cyclist might be in a bike lane so they use skills to handle right hook situations. Such as slowing and even stopping when a car starts to right hook them. This is exactly what HH did, so we can all say that HH was an adaptive cyclist for a day.

This is not what HH did. What HH did was slow down simply to avoid passing on the right when riding in the road margin. That the drivers happened to turn right was beside the point of why I slowed.

This is, by the way, also an example of how this adaptive cyclist does not see or treat bike lanes as regular traffic lanes.

and we are all very proud of you, mr. head. pretty mundane, but "good job" avoiding the hook. backslaps and high fives all around. High Five!

Hooks can occur on any road. Ever been riding in the middle of a pack of traffic, on an eight lane arterial, and had a car 'swoop' the lane you were in without signalling? Does this happen to you? (just curious, you don't have to elaborate like you're the sole bicycling cognoscenti on Bike Forums)

Swoops can occur in any lane. hooks can occur in any road position.

Sometimes there are "U-hooks" from the opposite direction.

and we are all very proud of you, mr. head. pretty mundane, but "good job" avoiding the hook. backslaps and high fives all around. High Five!

Hooks can occur on any road. Ever been riding in the middle of a pack of traffic, on an eight lane arterial, and had a car 'swoop' the lane you were in without signalling? Does this happen to you? (just curious, you don't have to elaborate like you're the sole bicycling cognoscenti on Bike Forums)

Swoops can occur in any lane. hooks can occur in any road position.

Sometimes there are "U-hooks" from the opposite direction. It happens, but not nearly often enough to make it a best practice to refuse to pass slowing traffic on their right when you and they each have your own lane.

Remember, the bike lane stripe at this midblock intersection with a driveway is 6" solid. I was in my own velotransit "express" lane, and it was clear in front of me. Why should I have to slow or stop because of slowing traffic in an adjacent lane? That is not my practice in carpool express lanes...

um, slowing traffic to your left while tooling along, REGARDLESS of road striping, is a warning sign of a posible hook.

Happens in a WOL same event, same symptoms. happens when cars pull half 'cross a NOL when a bicyclist is 'controlling a lane' as well.

you know all this stuff, mr. head.

I don't have any desire to debate your lil' MUNDANE traffic scenario. High Five! Happens all the time.

How bout those SWOOPS? happen to you much, controlling the lane in the middle of traffic, dodging and weaving and traffic pacing? Are you familiar with the illusion of 'vehicular parity' and the SWOOP?

It happens, but not nearly often enough to make it a best practice to refuse to pass slowing traffic on their right when you and they each have your own lane.

Remember, the bike lane stripe at this midblock intersection with a driveway is 6" solid. I was in my own velotransit "express" lane, and it was clear in front of me. Why should I have to slow or stop because of slowing traffic in an adjacent lane? That is not my practice in carpool express lanes...

Put your hard head here: :fight:

Dude, there was an obvious risk of a right hook, how can slowing when that risk is perceived NOT be a best practice?

That is not my practice in carpool express lanes...

you really shouldn't be comparing your driving to bicycling, unless you are really confused about carpool express lanes and driveways, cars and bikes once again. or do you need to send in the gorillas ;) on the slow moving tractors?

DUDE. your bike is NOT a car in the carpool express lanes.

Sometimes there are "U-hooks" from the opposite direction.
Impossible! ;)

youtube u3gKe9NBEvU - U-hook (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3gKe9NBEvU)

Al

Put your hard head here: :fight:

Dude, there was an obvious risk of a right hook, how can slowing when that risk is perceived NOT be a best practice? I'm just saying that the 6" solid white stripe obscures that risk. Not to you and me, but to the average cyclist who doesn't spend a fraction of the time we do thinking about this stuff.



um, slowing traffic to your left while tooling along, REGARDLESS of road striping, is a warning sign of a posible hook. Not in my experience. If I'm driving my car in the fast "normal" lane, adjacent to the car pool lane, and there is slowing to my left in the car pool lane, I don't slow down, much less make sure I don't pass on the right.


Happens in a WOL same event, same symptoms. Yes, that's exactly my point. The differences are:
In the case of the bike lane, the driver who intends to turn right into the driveway is discouraged by the stripe from merging right as he approaches the midblock driveway where he intends to turn right - this obscures his intent to turn there.
The risk of right hook that the cyclist is under is obscured by the stripe - it tends to give the average cyclist a false sense of security.

you really shouldn't be comparing your driving to bicycling, unless you are really confused about carpool express lanes and driveways, cars and bikes once again. or do you need to send in the gorillas ;) on the slow moving tractors?

DUDE. your bike is NOT a car in the carpool express lanes.
There are many people who defend bike lanes on the basis that they are "like" carpool express lanes.

Not in my experience. If I'm driving my car in the fast "normal" lane, adjacent to the car pool lane, and there is slowing to my left in the car pool lane, I don't slow down, much less make sure I don't pass on the right.



DUDE. I'm just going to say it one more time: you car is NOT a bicycle. I can see where this confusion arises.

I'll leave you to your little pedantic rant now.

High Five! avoiding a mundane traffic scenario.

um, slowing traffic to your left while tooling along, REGARDLESS of road striping, is a warning sign of a posible hook.
If I'm cycling in a lane-controlling position in a normal/narrow outside lane, and there is traffic slowing in my lane to the left, I'll be vigilant for what's going on, sure, but I won't feel compelled to prevent myself from passing the way I do when I'm riding in the road margin (whether that margin happens to be demarcated by a bike lane stripe or not).

What I'm saying is that what determines whether it is prudent to slow and not pass is whether you're riding in the margin or not, and that if you're in a bike lane, you have to act like you're riding in the margin (because you are), not like you're riding "centerish" in a regular vehicular traffic lane.

Edit: Summary: I don't treat a bike "lane" like it's real lane.

weren't you saying in the original post how you were riding in a bike lane and avoided a hook?

I thought we were supossed to be proud of you or something....

High Five! Way to go. Out there riding, not using the car, not confusing your RV for a bike. I am proud of you.

good advice on using a bike lane, being aware and avoiding a hook. high five!

weren't you saying in the original post how you were riding in a bike lane and avoided a hook? No. What I did was avoiding passing on the right while I was in the bike lane, because I was riding in the margin and passing on the right, while it's generally fine to do so when cycling in a regular lane (with due caution), is generally something to be avoided when cycling in a margin, including when in a bike lane.

It happens, but not nearly often enough to make it a best practice to refuse to pass slowing traffic on their right when you and they each have your own lane.

Remember, the bike lane stripe at this midblock intersection with a driveway is 6" solid. I was in my own velotransit "express" lane, and it was clear in front of me. Why should I have to slow or stop because of slowing traffic in an adjacent lane? That is not my practice in carpool express lanes...
Wow.

HH, I think there are bicycle riding courses you could take or you might want to read some of the good web sites online, such as the California DMV Drivers Handbook online, or one of the others that aren't written by John Forester (like this one http://bicyclesafe.com/), or perhaps you could pick up a copy of Robert Hurst's book. He can help you see things a little less black and white, which might help you to better understand how to use a bicycle.