Instead Of A Gun, My Father Left Me A Folding Bike [Archive]

folder fanatic

03-03-07, 12:18 PM

I think it is about time to bring up something that has been bothering me since makeinu's small apartment thread and how mean and petty even this forum is drifting to. The real, underlying reason why I purchase each bike new rather than used. Plus why I even went ahead and started to post, and developing 2 web sites on these bikes. It may not be a very nice reason. It is not popular (unless you are in the middle of when it hits the fan), it is not sexy or flashy, but here it is. The primary number one reason that I have purchased and upgraded folding bikes is in an event of an unexpected, unforeseen emergency such as a man-made or natural disaster I can shuttle food, water, prescriptions, pets, and other necessary things for living to or away from my house.

In the event I might repeat myself, while I use my bikes in various other ways (see my web sites below), I find the Southern California traffic too congested to safely enjoy riding most of the time. So buying bicycles was not the ideal when it comes to safe passage or even interaction among the new arrivals that increased crime in my area. The folding bike is the last bike I can use if I must ride. I find it's flexibility allows me to make it "disappear" (hide) it from hostile parties, maintain good health by using bikes more, and haul items on the racks 2 of the "workhorses" have in the rear.

The only thing that still prevents me from actually buying from a private party is I have different expectations from my bikes than most others here on this forum (and other forums similar to this one). My folding bikes are expected to be suited for and actually perform in event of another emergency-besides being just recreational fun items. I developed and have a list of features/components/accessories that each bike must have to be used for the primary purpose that I intend each bike to be used for and check each bike model against said list (complete list posted and available on my Geocities Web site). I was very happy with using old reclaimed beaters from thrift stores and even private parties long before I went to buying and using folders exclusively. If these bikes did not offer me better protection from thieves, actual bike jacking, or some other such negative experiences, I would still be using beaters, inexpensive bike shop sold non-folding models, or other such bikes. Folding bikes are far more expensive than a similar bike without this feature. But they are the only thing that works in a hostile environment such as a typical anonymous urban center where I must live for some time to come.

The point is folding bike ownership is a experience in self-reliance in itself. These bikes are optimally maintained by the best bike shops that I could find, rather than just any ol'bike shop around the block. While I try to do most of the simple maintenance and repairs at home to familiarize myself with each bike in case of an emergency need of repair on the road, I believe more in preventives rather than trying to do it all myself. My own goals is to avoid at all costs the need to do some sort of preventable repair on the road, especially in a hostile environment such as the one I currently find myself in. I do not busy myself in fancy rather descriptive terms of "gruppos," "cadence," "honking," or even refer or think of cycling as a "sport" since most of the world's population that uses bikes see them as a utility device rather than competition machine or a child's toy like most of North America has done. I think of these sample terms more in the sense of a ungruppo-selecting only components/accessories that allow the bike to do it's job in a dependable sure way-rather than blindly seeking out just a fancy set of parts, or uncadence-choosing to pace oneself to avoid getting too tired out too fast, or unhonking-preferring to stay in the saddle to maximize control over the bike or if hill is too steep, simply getting off and walking it up. Simple over Complex.

The folding bike is flexible because it's design-no matter what the make or model is-permits these bikes to go beyond the physical and psychological barriers that any bike many times come in contact with due to it's inherent mobility and easily overcomes these barriers. These bikes were used in times of strife and turmoil that wartime creates. While these bikes do enjoy a modest success at this time, the primary purpose will not be rediscovered until then. That is why my father bequeath one bike-the Boardwalk S1-and all the bikes following and patterned after it to me and my sister. These bikes has been and will be called again to provide "aid and comfort" to all of us here in my shrinking family when the hard times come around again.

Perhaps I open myself to much anger or flaming, but it really does not matter anymore. My Web sites and postings here and elsewhere will bear witness to the joy and comfort this final gift from my father has given me for the past one an a half years since his passing. I hope the 300+ million potential bike riders will see this and decide for themselves there is a place for the nonenthusiests and the utility users in the world too. And my volunteering of becoming a writer for spreading the idea of alternative uses to a sleeping giant as this neglected population has been.

EvilV

03-03-07, 04:32 PM

I just ride my folder because I like it. It makes me happy; its the exercise and the neatness of the design that I enjoy, but then survivalism isn't my thing. I think I have a realistic view of the risks of societal breakdown and the likelyhood of impending doom.

PS - I don't recognise at all the meaness you refer too in the first few lines; this forum is a haven of politeness and constructive advice. The matter you refer to was simply a natural reaction to a quite uneccessary questioning of the integrity of a well known and very helpful poster. The fact that a few folks said so isn't mean at all; quite the contrary. It is called defending the reputation of someone who is regarded as a friend by many.

mcalpik

03-03-07, 07:40 PM

Fanatic,

I look for, and respect your broad perspective on issues, in this, and other forums. I can remember my first bike ride. In France, as a child, it provided me a freedom that I have seldom had since. Today I ride for other reasons, but wind in my hair, and a sense of leaving my toubles behind me are still part of it. Your father clearly left you a legacy that you should be proud of, and I am sure he would be proud of you.

When friends discuss passionately, they often say things that are interpreted differently in text, that it would be in person. Please remember that we are all here, because we love our bikes, and want to help each other. You do that well, every time you respond to a question. We are all trying to do the same.

Keith

oldguy52

03-03-07, 07:45 PM

It's a bike, a fairly simple machine. Don't think it to death, just ride it and enjoy. There's nothing wrong with having a bike(s) around in case of a disaster, but you might want to lighten up a bit while you're waiting for it to come.

PS; there is at least one more poster here who thought makeinu was out of line and didn't comment ... much as I wanted to.

Donkey Hodie

03-03-07, 07:50 PM

Y'all better get yourselves some knobby tires for when the ish hits the fan. Road maintenance will become oblivious.

Donkey Hodie

03-03-07, 08:04 PM

I'd also like to add that my favorite thing about cycling is the simple pleasure I get from feeling the wind in my face while I aimlessly cruise at a relaxing pace. This is how I felt as a child on my silver fox banana seat bike, and this is how I feel when I climb on any ol' bike today(unless it is painful to my rear end). There is no sense of competition, stress, or anxiety when cycling this way. It gives me a sense of freedom, and it makes me feel more connected to the environment. It gives me a sens of freedom that I cannot really compare to anything else. Maybe it is the same feeling as hitting a home run, or skiing on a hot day in a t-shirt, or maybe even like swimming in the ocean or a lake. It just feels naturally good.

Wavshrdr

03-03-07, 11:55 PM

There aren't a huge number of folding bike shops where I live. Basically there is Calhoun Cycles which is more into 'bents. If you want something other than a Brompton or a Dahon (starting last year Xootr) you don't have many choices. I have a hard time trusting a lot of shops with bike repairs. Somehow they don't seem to be familiar with whatever I bring in. I end up having to supply the information they need so they can do it since I don't have all the special tools needed for the job.

I have bought several used bikes in the past and I never expected them to ever be like brand new. I always figured if there was some issue I'd deal with it myself. Bike mechanics is not rocket science and there are enough people that had experience with the issue that I could probably ask for some input and get it if I couldn't figure it out myself.

I learned a long time ago you can't please everyone no matter what you do. For example I had been very sick for about the past 4 weeks. I literally felt so bad I actually called in sick to work which I maybe do once every 10 years or so. I had totally lost my voice and couldn't talk at all. I'd go into work and still try and conduct the meetings and keep projects moving while barely having enough energy to stand. Then someone would have the audacity to complain that I wasn't speaking at the meeting and keeping people on task at the meeting. Never mind the fact that the meeting was a mere formality to go over what data I had already compiled and that was sent to everyone PRIOR to the meeting.

These people still weren't happy with the fact that I was working 60-70 hours a week even though I was very sick. We have some incredibly tight deadlines and I knew if I took any more time off, that it would directly affect an entity with a billion dollar annual budget.

Where this meandering story is gone is I think people in general lack civility. No good deed goes unpunished it seems. Try and help someone pull their car out of the ditch and God help you if somehow their car gets damaged in the process they will want to sue the good samaritan who stooped to help. As a result people don't want to stop to help. Often the good samaritan becomes a victim. Because of that, I often keep a folder in my car. I know that the only person I can rely upon is myself most of the time. Even if it -20F out, as long as it isn't too icy if my car breaks down, I can probably ride my folder somewhere if I need to.

Now FF if you had a folder AND a gun, you'd be all set!

wahoonc

03-04-07, 06:05 AM

I must have missed the ugliness in the thread referred to by FF. I quite often stop reading a thread when it deteriorates. I agree there are some people that have a tendency to belittle and dismiss someone that doesn't share their narrow point of view. I also agree with Wavshrdr's take on general civility. FWIW I raced many years ago and am embarrassed to say I probably looked down on a few utility cyclists in my day. However now the tables are turned and I am a utility/recreational cyclist. I respect anybody that is on two wheels (or more) that are moving under their own power. We have a substantial number of what I call Urban cyclists, the guys, that if it wasn't for their bicycles wouldn't be moving much at all. Many of these people are unemployed or under employed. I have taken it as a mission to help provide them with parts and repairs. The other thing I do is keep a stash of cheap safety vests that I hand out to them to try and keep them at least partially visible in traffic. Everyone chooses cycling for a different reason. I came back to it for the rest and relaxation as well as the exercise. I also think it is going to become a necessity in the near future.

I think Folding Fanatic's take on the use of folding cycles is very interesting and is a point of view I had never really considered. I have always thought that a bicycle is a good survival vehicle. I live and work in hurricane prone areas. After a major storm a bicycle is quite often the only thing that can get through to check on people.

FF has done an excellent job with the websites and I direct people there when they ask questions about folders. I care less about brand name than I do about suitability and durability. I am in the market for a folder and have been reading, researching and testing them out as I find them. So far the leader for my needs is probably the Brompton. My challenges are probably different from someone else's and what works for me may not work for them.

And as an aside..."those that chose to live by the sword will die by the sword"... I have guns but they are used as a tool on our small farm for protection of our animals and home only.

Aaron:)

igor455

03-04-07, 09:15 AM

as someone who has carried a firearm since 1968 every day of his life i am luckly to have both and the ability to use both. if a problem happens be it man made or natural disaster well i will be able to live through it providing i make it through the initial incident. i have thought about it a lot and have made plans to survive. as a police since 1971 well i guess we are trained to think of the worst. the folder s i have were bought to allow me to travel with them to get exercise( becoming diabetic ) since i need to do that. i was able to see the other attributes of having my bike fridays. i would think most of us here are able to think outside of the box when necessary so you folks will do ok

Wavshrdr

03-04-07, 09:34 AM

...FWIW I raced many years ago and am embarrassed to say I probably looked down on a few utility cyclists in my day. However now the tables are turned and I am a utility/recreational cyclist. I respect anybody that is on two wheels (or more) that are moving under their own power. We have a substantial number of what I call Urban cyclists, the guys, that if it wasn't for their bicycles wouldn't be moving much at all. Many of these people are unemployed or under employed. I have taken it as a mission to help provide them with parts and repairs. The other thing I do is keep a stash of cheap safety vests that I hand out to them to try and keep them at least partially visible in traffic. Everyone chooses cycling for a different reason. I came back to it for the rest and relaxation as well as the exercise. I also think it is going to become a necessity in the near future...

I wasn't much into bicycle racing but I was very actively involved in a wide variety of motorsport competition while racing motorcycles, cars, trucks and buggies. I was really heavily into the sport. The only thing I enjoyed more than winning was helping somone else who was just getting the bug to help them work through the steep learning curve. What I am trying to say is that I always enjoyed being able to be a mentor for other people. Even when I wasn't racing I'd volunteer my time to do tech inspections or be a corner marshal at race events.

When I was in a position to actually teach others it was one of the most rewarding periods of my life. Now I try to be a good ambassador for all the sports I love. For example a few years ago when scooters were just become popular I was heavily into them. I would travel and sometimes ANY bike would have exceeded the weight limits and the early folders weren't that good. I would sometimes travel to some pretty remote areas and I could easily carry a scooter with me as transport assuming I had paved areas to ride on.

As I traveled to more remote areas such as Siberia for example, I would meet young kids who couldn't afford anything to ride; scooter or a bike. Before one trip I had a brainstorm, I contacted a company that was big into selling Razor scooters. I arranged to buy a substantial number of them at an agressive discount. I loaded up my suitcases with all the Razors I could fit. As I would scooter around some of the less unfortunate kids, I'd hand out a Razor or two. The looks in these kids eyes was priceless. It was as though I had just handed them a brand new Ferrari.

Fast forward a few years later. I returned to some of these same areas. I saw some of these same kids and they immediately remembered me. In general the scooters were in surprisingly good shape. They had been "adopted" by a groupd of kids and they all took turns and also policed each other so it wouldn't get broken by over enthusiastic use. I would take time to give their scooters a quick going over to make sure there were no safety issues and then be on my way. They would scooter along with me for a long time until they had to go home.

On one trip my mom went with me and took her scooter. I had told her what I had done and to her credit she bought a bunch of them and gave them away on our trip. She talked more about the kids who received the scooters she gave away than some of the incredible sights she saw.

Obviously folders are more expensive and not so easy to carry a bunch of them but altruism can be rewarding at times even though that isn't the intent. So now I may not be an ambassador or scooters so much but I've definitely become a folder evangelist.

spambait11

03-04-07, 09:36 AM

Problem with guns, for me, is that they are only designed to do one thing. Anyone who calls them tools has a really narrow definition of the usefulness of a tool. In most disaster situations, it's better to have a stout knife or axe. I'd opt for the latter, as time and time again many survivors have commented how useful it would have been to have an axe to chop, slice, cut, hammer with, in order to build structures, get out of structures, or build other tools. But it looks funny carrying one on a bike, so I just keep it in my go-bag at home. :rolleyes:

Wavshrdr

03-04-07, 09:50 AM

Not to veer too far off in gun land, I've been in areas during a major disaster. One big problem I found is that what (if any civility) that is left in man, quickly evaporates. I have seen a young boy get beaten up because an adult wanted his bicycle. Under these circumstances it is often survival of the fittest and defense becomes a priority. I personal prefer weapons that give me stand-off capablity where I am less likely to get hurt. I also can't help but keep in mind all the countries where I've traveled that have outlawed guns yet all the outlaws seem to have them and the general population is defenseless.

I do keep a survival pack with a wide variety of "tools" to help me in most any situation. I was stabbed very badly about 20 years ago requiring over 100 stitches to close the wound back up. I was out roller skating and was unarmed. The attacker (an illegal alien) had a pretty big knife. A wide variety of tools could have been useful then. Which brings up another topic of sorts.

How do you protect yourself against the dangers when you ride? Chemical agents? Sound? What? Folder and a gun?

Nachoman

03-04-07, 10:50 AM

Good looks and boyish charm.

DVC45

03-04-07, 11:21 AM

How do you protect yourself against the dangers when you ride? Chemical agents? Sound? What? Folder and a gun?

OC spray and a Keltec P11. With my Texas CHL of course. ;)

catatonic

03-04-07, 12:19 PM

I agree, if you are going to possibly use one of these in a katrina like situation, have a gun permit/CCW, and have formal firearms training, using the pistol you will carry.

Desparation is abound in those situations, and when people ger desparate, they become violent...always prepare for the worst, but hope for the best.

wahoonc

03-04-07, 01:42 PM

I do hold a CCW permit in NC but normally don't carry anymore. My biggest problem is that I travel extensively and the laws vary from area to area and not all states are reciprocal. Also I occasionally travel by air and refuse to check baggage so no carry in that situation either. I agree that in a situation like Katrina (yes I was there in Mobile, AL when it hit) it will bring out the best and the worst in people. Including the ones that are supposed to be helping.

Aaron:)

folder fanatic

03-04-07, 02:15 PM

"...For example I had been very sick for about the past 4 weeks. I literally felt so bad I actually called in sick to work which I maybe do once every 10 years or so. I had totally lost my voice and couldn't talk at all. I'd go into work and still try and conduct the meetings and keep projects moving while barely having enough energy to stand. Then someone would have the audacity to complain that I wasn't speaking at the meeting and keeping people on task at the meeting. Never mind the fact that the meeting was a mere formality to go over what data I had already compiled and that was sent to everyone PRIOR to the meeting.

These people still weren't happy with the fact that I was working 60-70 hours a week even though I was very sick. We have some incredibly tight deadlines and I knew if I took any more time off, that it would directly affect an entity with a billion dollar annual budget...Where this meandering story is gone is I think people in general lack civility. No good deed goes unpunished it seems. Try and help someone pull their car out of the ditch and God help you if somehow their car gets damaged in the process they will want to sue the good samaritan who stooped to help. As a result people don't want to stop to help. Often the good samaritan becomes a victim. Because of that, I often keep a folder in my car. I know that the only person I can rely upon is myself most of the time. Even if it -20F out, as long as it isn't too icy if my car breaks down, I can probably ride my folder somewhere if I need to.

Now FF if you had a folder AND a gun, you'd be all set!..." -Wavshrdr

Wavshrdr,

I guess I did neglect to mention that my father was civil service retired from the federal goverment's security units for various branches from the army to GSA. He was the gun expert, not me. He knew of my reluctance to arm myself with one of his guns, so he did push me to take various courses in arm to arm combat, and when our transit system went on strike, he felt my old beater was too noticeable to the roving gang members surrounding our house. He faintly remembered a curious folding bike from his army days during World War 2. He told me to find a company that might still make these type of bikes, model it after the old 3 speed bike I had, plus some of my previous past bikes he felt were good enough for his (and mine) purposes, along with his old motorcycles (see the Flickr photo (http://www.flickr.com/photos/world-of-folding-bicycles/289494502/in/set-72157594325178229/) of one) and commission the job from his hospital bed. The result is the Boardwalk.

I hope you will take some time off from your long work days for one short trip to the doctor and take care of yourself. Your children needs you more. And get well soon.

LittlePixel

03-04-07, 03:30 PM

As a brit I say all this mixing of talk about bikes (yay!) and guns (boo!) makes me feel rather sad. In britain a disaster tends to cement usually distant people, rather than turning the world into a mad-max style free-for all dystopia. If polled I'd rather guns were treated as taboo on a forum about bikes much as talking about mid-east politics or the price of bacon are.
"Like, I was over in England. You ever been to England, anyone, been to England? No one has handguns in England, not even the cops. True or false? True. Now-in England last year, they had fourteen deaths from handguns. FFFFFourteen. Now-the United States, and I think you know how we feel about handguns-woooo, I'm getting a warm tingly feeling just saying the word, to be honest with you. I swear to you, I am hard. Twenty-three thousand deaths from handguns. Now let's go through those numbers again, because they're a little baffling at first glance. England, where no one has guns, fffffffourteen deaths. United States, and I think you know how we feel about guns-woooo, I'm getting a stiffy-twenty-three thousand deaths from handguns. But there's no connection, and you'd be a fool and a Communist to make one. There's no connection between having a gun and shooting someone with it, and not having a gun and not shooting someone. There have been studies made and there is no connection at all there. Yes. That's absolute proof"

(The great) Bill Hicks; Relentless 1992

DaFriMon

03-04-07, 03:31 PM

EvilV

03-05-07, 01:28 AM

One of the themes of this thread is people's rudeness to each other in these discussion forums. No doubt we could do better, but I don't think we're really that bad here. In addition to the matter alluded to earlier, I've seen people butt heads over a couple of stupid things, but really, as Internet discussion groups go, things are fairly civil around here.

One general thing that I'd like to see people remember, there's no such thing as winning an argument. If you're trying to correct somebody on a point of fact, it should be enough to present the information you have. If the other person won't accept that, it's not necessary to call him a fool or ignoramus. He may be one, but it isn't necessary to say so. ;)
I'm completely in agreement with your first paragraph and moderately impressed with the second. My only doubt about it is that when someone is well off base, I think he should be told, and he was in the context of this discussion.

I'm kind of bewildered by this thread, and I agree with some of littlePixel's comments. This is a thread more about urban paranoia than bikes, and is more than a little out of the normal character of the forum. That's not necessarily a bad thing of course; a forum might well go off into other realms from time to time and still be dealing with pertinent issues, but even though I did recently escape a band of drunken youths at midnight on my Merc, when they gave chase as I pedaled past, demanding that I give them my BMX, I wouldn't fancy that a small bicycle would do well for its owner in any kind 'Mad max' society unless the cyclist only came out and rode it in the dead of night. Any bunch of 'likely lads' could stop a man on a bicycle and take whatever they liked were they not as drunk as lords. In the absensence of fuel after a hurricane or an earthquake, it could prove a useful item, and that might be why it would be difficult to hold onto if people turned nasty. As for guns, those who wanted to steal the bike would find it much easier to shoot the rider down than would the rider to return their fire. I'm not sure a small wheeled bicycle makes a terribly stable fire platform.

spambait11

03-05-07, 09:32 AM

... This is a thread more about urban paranoia than bikes, and is more than a little out of the normal character of the forum.
"Urban paranoia" is discussed all the time in the Commuting subforum. :)

As for guns, those who wanted to steal the bike would find it much easier to shoot the rider down than would the rider to return their fire. I'm not sure a small wheeled bicycle makes a terribly stable fire platform.
During a disaster, esp. something like Katrina, I did not perceive a folding bike would have been that useful. And here in earthquake country, I can see one being moderately useful provided the roads are not somehow trashed and thrashed with potholes and debris.

As to the gun thing, even if one were to witness a bike jacking and a beating as Wav claimed, I also note he did not indicate he did anything about it either. Would a gun have made a difference? Well, if the guy stopped beating the kid, and came after him calling his bluff, it would seem - apart from "good looks and boyish charm" - he'd only have two options: shoot or run. Maybe a warning shot would stop the guy. Then again, maybe not. In any case, I wouldn't use my folding bike as a shooting platform either. Might scratch the powdercoat.

igor455

03-05-07, 04:33 PM

One does not under any circumstances use warning shots. real life is not tv, not only is it illegial but it is very counter productive. It the situation warrants deadly force then one must be prepared to use it. if one is not in that mondset then one shouldnt have a firearm period.
to the lad from across the pond, we are americans not brits. we have the freedopm to have firearms here its called the 2nd amendment to the US constitution. the police from the UK i have spoken with say that illegial firearms are becoming quite common and more cops are being armed although very quietly.Many UK officers come here to get firearms training and we talk as all cops do very frankly. I have been in a riot and a war and on the street for ever it seems. I only got mugged once on my bike fridday. Thatr incident brings up the old saw of never and i mean never bring a knife to a gun fight, you will lose. I was able to impress that point on the two young want to be thiefs. The two ladies that were the indended victims were very surprised and quite happy to see this old gray haired gun with a sheriffs star and a glock.
a folder will provide one with mobility in the case of a problem and i keep one in the trunk of my focus.
hey its good to ride whenever you can too

folder fanatic

03-05-07, 05:22 PM

I did not mean that a bonafide disaster must strike in order for a folding bike to be useful. To best illustrate this point, let us examine some of the social unrest periods (like serial killers roaming about) of the City Of Los Angeles (along with natural and man made ones) stretching from 1965 (I was about Age 9 or so) to 2003's MTA transit strike which was the final push into the purchase of the Boardwalk-my first folding bike.

MTA's Own Admission Of it's Three Transit Stikes During It's Brief History:
"...From its inception in 1993, the Los Angeles County Metropolitan Transportation Authority had never reached agreement with its unions on new labor contracts prior to their expiration. The MTA experienced strikes in three of its last four negotiating cycles (1994, 2000 and 2003), disrupting service to transit riders. In 2003, the strike cost the local economy an estimated $4 million per day, or $140 million during the 35-day strike." -from the official web site @ mta.net

1992 Los Angeles Riots:
http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics48/00043506.jpg and
http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics47/00043453.jpg
http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics49/00044162.jpg

1978 Hillside Strangler Murders*:
http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics08/00023955.jpg
http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics08/00023949.jpg and Flickr Photo:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/world-of-folding-bicycles/289494509/in/set-72157594325178229/

*This was a more personal loss for me. The young lady and her bright orange car played a very important role in identifying, capture, and conviction of these cousin murderers. I sometimes wonder if she did not put so much faith in her car for protection, she would still be here. Maybe if she had a bike...

1971 San Fernando/Sylmar Earthquake:
http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics10/00024727.jpg

1965 Watts Riots:
http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics33/00036445.jpg

1943 Transit Strike**:
http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics18/00028861.jpg

**Photo from way before my birth, but this photo shows the need for a good dependable public transportation system was evident even then.

Each photo or paragraph demostrates how not just any bike, but a folding bike that can be somewhat hidden, at the ready to use, and not locked up for any reason is the only bike that I found could be deployed at a moments notice. Yet one could still enjoy it on a sunny happy bike trip off in a quiet place, basking in the moment.

igor455

03-05-07, 07:24 PM

i have gotten a few looks riding around downtown annapolis in full uniform on my friday NWT. i just put it down to envy

Chop!

03-06-07, 05:22 AM

Don't care which side of the pond you are this is supposed to be a FOLDING BIKE FORUM take your gun talk to a gun forum please.
Next thing we'll be discussing the pros & cons of folding bikes in religion, gay folding bike rights etc! LOL! :eek:

Speedo

03-06-07, 09:58 AM

I did not mean that a bonafide disaster must strike in order for a folding bike to be useful. To best illustrate this point ...,

I think I am beginning to understand the spirit of this thread.

I would disagree with many of the examples you've given. But your transportation idependence certainly is a big plus in times of transportation trouble. In that vein, I'm surprised that you left out the oil crises of 1973 and 1979. It must have been giddy times for transportaional bicyclists to ride by the gas lines!

Speedo

keithnyc

03-06-07, 10:51 AM

folder fanatic

03-06-07, 11:17 AM

"...Don't care which side of the pond you are this is supposed to be a FOLDING BIKE FORUM take your gun talk to a gun forum please.
Next thing we'll be discussing the pros & cons of folding bikes in religion, gay folding bike rights etc! LOL..."-Chop

Perhaps I should have added money to this thread's title a la "Instead Of A Gun And Money"...maybe that would have been more descriptive of the what I was trying to put across over the pond and anywhere else. Bikes (whether motorcycles or regular bikes) have well served me well passed the legal age to get a driver's licence during any time whether good or bad. My father wanted to leave us far more than he did. He had financial problems when he died due to the high cost of medical care of a quadruple heart bypass at around 45 thousand U.S. dollars plus other hospital expenses. These bikes offer a affordable alternative to any other vehicles that I have used or come across over the years.

"I think I am beginning to understand the spirit of this thread.

I would disagree with many of the examples you've given. But your transportation idependence certainly is a big plus in times of transportation trouble. In that vein, I'm surprised that you left out the oil crises of 1973 and 1979. It must have been giddy times for transportaional bicyclists to ride by the gas lines!"
-Speedo

I left some things out like the energy crisises of the 1970's out because I could not document them properly (the Los Angeles Public Library Photo Collection appears not to have images from this period available). I remember those times very well. Both my sister and I rode nice Flying Dutchman road bikes around instead of depending on my father to drive us around. My father had a tiny 1971 Datsun Pick-up truck (lorry) with excellent gas mileage to use for himself and my mother. People stopped laughing at my dad for buying a tiny vehicle. And my sister and I stopped getting laughed at for even riding a bike past our 10th birthday.

DVC45

03-06-07, 11:49 AM

igor455

03-06-07, 02:31 PM

Chop!

03-06-07, 03:06 PM

where is wales anyway? or cymru? well smack me down and exxxcuse me for offering an oponion. maybe someday ill tell you about the first amendment to our constitution. nah maybe not
anyway lad have a good day

Wales is a little country with a lot less paranoid people! The 2 biggest threats most people face are :-
1, from bigoted Religions &
2, from globalisation! Mc Donalds Wars here we come!
Lucky we've got our folders so we can ride through the chaos! YeeHah! ;)
Just been painting the GoBike camouflage, & the Strida with Stealth anti-radar paint
And while on the subject of global troubles, my carbon footprint is so small, everytime I go for a ride I chop down a few trees to make up for it! I call it the 'carbon onset'!
Red Nose Day soon...............

LittlePixel

03-06-07, 03:36 PM

where is wales anyway? or cymru? well smack me down and exxxcuse me for offering an oponion. maybe someday ill tell you about the first amendment to our constitution. nah maybe not
anyway lad have a good day

Another 10 points to the Great American Association of Geography Teachers there.
Funny how it had to be amended so you could all have the right to shoot at each other.
:)

barneybarney

03-06-07, 06:11 PM

Blimey, this is turning into an international incident. the 'special relationship' is in enough trouble without transatlantic arguements between folding bike enthusiasts!

As a brit i doubt i'll ever witness a complete breakdown of law and order, not unless the teabags run out, but as a fan of science fiction i've often become fascinated with what would happen WHEN the zombies come, or if your a wyndham reader - the Triffids.

Triffids would be hard to deal with - they're impervious to standerd firearms and equiped with a poisoned range weapon of their own, so i can't see that a gun or a bike would help, folding or not. Besides, with all the road users blinded by 'the lights in the sky' the traffic would be murder.

Zombies could be a different kettle of fish, the older type would be slow and cumbersome and a bike would be loads of help. if cornered I could dazzle them with my folding technique, especially if i have a brompton.

"...then you lift and the back wheel simply folds under like so."

"ggaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrr!!!"

Then i could shoot them in the head with my gun.

The more recent zombies would be a differant matter, very fast and nasty. no amount of folding slight of hand would help me there. Instead i would have to opt for more speed. I'd upgrade my 9speed to a shimano capreo hub and those velocity rims would be nice for a start... to hell with it I would probably take the plunge and buy that airnimal white rhino i've been itching for, that way i could escape off road and look like some sort of mad max style folding avenging angel or something. So depending on the cause, the fall of mankind could be a boon for the folding bike enthusiast. The meak will enherit the earth. But not american folding bike enthusiasts, they're not meek - they have firearms.

wubrew

03-06-07, 06:22 PM

Another 10 points to the Great American Association of Geography Teachers there.
Funny how it had to be amended so you could all have the right to shoot at each other.
:)
Now, careful with mocking the cherish amendments that has make us the envy of the world. Let us just talk about folders and I won't mention the 'Hooliganism' out yonder.:D

Speedo

03-06-07, 06:23 PM

As a brit i doubt i'll ever witness a complete breakdown of law and order

You're not a football fan? ;)

barneybarney

03-06-07, 06:28 PM

DaFriMon

03-06-07, 06:38 PM

Blimey, this is turning into an international incident. the 'special relationship' is in enough trouble without transatlantic arguements between folding bike enthusiasts! . . .
"ggaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrr!!!" . . . i could escape off road and look like some sort of mad max style folding avenging angel or something. So depending on the cause, the fall of mankind could be a boon for the folding bike enthusiast. The meak will enherit the earth. But not american folding bike enthusiasts, they're not meek - they have firearms.

You may actually be on to something there with the Mad Max reference. Perhaps we can form roving gangs of folder riders. If you want to assume that outlawing guns will actually make them unavailable, then perhaps we can arm ourselves with crossbows and boomerangs. A small crossbow might be easier to shoot while riding. Less recoil. Hard to reload, though.

I don't have to stick emoticons on this, do I?

wubrew

03-06-07, 06:42 PM

You may actually be on to something there with the Mad Max reference. Perhaps we can form roving gangs of folder riders. If we assume that outlawing guns will actually make them unavailable, then perhaps we can arm ourselves with crossbows and boomerangs. A small crossbow might be easier to shoot while riding. Less recoil. Hard to reload, though.

I don't have to stick emoticons on this, do I?
Recoil! You have got to try a 40 calibre Sig Sauer riding a folder.

cooker

03-06-07, 06:50 PM

folder fanatic....I'm sorry you've developed such a gloomy, existentialist world view. I hope you can pull out of your funk before too long and start to see some positive things in life.

spambait11

03-06-07, 07:03 PM

... my carbon footprint is so small, everytime I go for a ride I chop down a few trees to make up for it! I call it the 'carbon onset'!
Wait... don't you also drive a tour bus for a living? All over the world? And even under the oceans?

Another 10 points to the Great American Association of Geography Teachers there.
Yeah, we were taught "there's America, and there's others." I always got A's on the exams.

Triffids would be hard to deal with - they're impervious to standerd firearms and equiped with a poisoned range weapon of their own, so i can't see that a gun or a bike would help, folding or not.
Are you being sarcastic or something? 'Cause I don't know ANYTHING that's impervious to an AMERICAN MADE, I repeat, AMERICAN MADE gun. Others, such as the Germans, like to brag about their weaponry but: (1) we don't know where in the hell Germany is; and (2) AMERICAN MADE has always been superior due to the fact it's, well, AMERICAN MADE. By the way, what the hell's a Triffid? Is it American?

barneybarney

03-06-07, 07:09 PM

You may actually be on to something there with the Mad Max reference. Perhaps we can form roving gangs of folder riders. If you want to assume that outlawing guns will actually make them unavailable, then perhaps we can arm ourselves with crossbows and boomerangs. A small crossbow might be easier to shoot while riding. Less recoil. Hard to reload, though.

I don't have to stick emoticons on this, do I?

whats more after a good days pillaging, your chosen warhorse would fit neatly under an office desk or in to a flight case. if you removed any attached weaponry such as axle blades, fork mounted chainsaw or mini cattle plough that is.

i've just finished attaching viking horns to my cycle helmet. they are mounted on hinges and when i'm not at war with the zombies or gangs or wotnot they fold down and i can use them to store things that i find such as pens, cheese straws or allen keys.

igor455

03-06-07, 07:48 PM

i knew where wales was always did , just being a smart ass. The thread does show the divergent points of view tween many cultures. In my world we always expect the worst because as police we usually see it. the years at the job bring about a cynical view of the world .i shall try to lighten up .

Wavshrdr

03-06-07, 08:56 PM

We all at least seem to agree on folders so there is common ground. I don't expect people to understand or fully appreciate rights that they have never had. I know it is hard for people in more socialstic countries to understand the total almost freedom that the US once offered. Now we have metropolitan planning commissions trying to force everyone one to live in high population density areas.

To me it is just an attempt by the government to assume more power. If I were a conspiracy theorist I could make a pretty plausible argument for that. The more you group people together in a confined area, the easier in some ways it is to control them even if they tend to prey more upon each other. This in turn creates more "need" for government and the vicious cycle begins with the only solution being government.

That is the biggest difference between what the US once was and what Europe is now. The US used to stand for people being able to stand on their own two feet and not wanting a "nanny state" to do everything for them. We were proud of our independence and self-reliance. Now it seems most Americans are just a bunch of namby-pamby Euro socialist wannabes who want government to do everything for them as apparently they are incapable of taking care of themselves.

I am sure that at sometime in your life you've needed a helping hand. I expected to rely on friends and family and not the government for it. It is a Faustian bargain that I didn't really want to make.

So while I see the need for government, I prefer a limited role for government. There are very few things that government truly does well and with little waste. So I try to limit their intrustion into my life. I try to do things in an ecological manner but I am not some fanatic. While I have a car, it is very low in emissions. I still enjoy the fact that we have fuel that is not absurdly taxed like Europe. I enjoy the fact that I have choices that are mine and not dictated by the government whether in a direct or indirect way. If the government doesn't want you to do something, they won't sometimes say don't do it, they'll just tax the snot out of it. That is what they've done in Europe. Hopefully it will never happen here.

In the interim I still enjoy my folders and the opporunity to use my car sometimes to take my bikes to some interesting places to ride.

Speedo

03-07-07, 06:53 AM

But for all these faults, just remember that in general we murder one another at 1/6th the rate Americans do, and we live longer too.
:)

And you've got a way better selection and quality of beer. But, we're catching up!

EvilV

03-07-07, 07:17 AM

And you've got a way better selection and quality of beer. But, we're catching up!

As long as you don't catch up on the rate of youth binge drinking, you'll be fine.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6213686.stm

Garandman

03-07-07, 07:43 AM

////The folding bike is flexible because it's design-no matter what the make or model is-permits these bikes to go beyond the physical and psychological barriers that any bike many times come in contact with due to it's inherent mobility and easily overcomes these barriers. These bikes were used in times of strife and turmoil that wartime creates. While these bikes do enjoy a modest success at this time, the primary purpose will not be rediscovered until then. That is why my father bequeath one bike-the Boardwalk S1-and all the bikes following and patterned after it to me and my sister. These bikes has been and will be called again to provide "aid and comfort" to all of us here in my shrinking family when the hard times come around again. ////
I don't know about that. After 9/11 I didn't see a whole lot of people going out and buying folding bicycles. But one of the local gun clubs added nearly 1,000 members in three months.

These visions of post-apocalyptic America always remind me of the old joke, "I know I'm paranoid - but am I paranoid enough?"

juan162

03-07-07, 11:28 AM

I don't know about that. After 9/11 I didn't see a whole lot of people going out and buying folding bicycles. B

This wasn't after 9/11, but a year ago when the train and bus drivers in NYC went on strike, my brother was able to get to work because he happened to have an ancient Dahon single speed that was given to him by my cousin. I had talked at him for years about the usefulness of the bike, but he never listened. He was so greatful to have the bike and has since had it serviced at his LBS and gotten all the basic tools for a bike.

While my brother hasn't become a fanatic, he occasionally uses it for his shopping excursions near his apt in Astoria. I do hold out hope for him, as he has expressed interest in a smaller, 16 inch folder with some gears for broader use about the city. I may just buy him a new rear wheel with a 3 speed internal hub for his birthday.

Juan

folder fanatic

03-07-07, 11:52 AM

"You may actually be on to something there with the Mad Max reference. Perhaps we can form roving gangs of folder riders. If you want to assume that outlawing guns will actually make them unavailable, then perhaps we can arm ourselves with crossbows and boomerangs. A small crossbow might be easier to shoot while riding. Less recoil. Hard to reload, though." -DaFriMon

You might be kind of disappointed if you live in Southern California (where I am writing from). I rarely see others on folders.

"folder fanatic....I'm sorry you've developed such a gloomy, existentialist world view. I hope you can pull out of your funk before too long and start to see some positive things in life." -cooker in Toronto

My previous bikes that I owned over the years helped me through good times and bad. The need for a folding bike was apparent when I simply could not lock any bike safely anywhere in Los Angeles during the last transit strike. I do tend to get gloomy when I see my borders overrunned by desperate, hungry for employment people that destroyed the basic social fabric do to someone else's need for a profit on the backs of fellow Americans. My bikes do help me to keep a more positive attitude when I do get a chance to ride one. Heaven only knows how I would be without them.

"We all at least seem to agree on folders so there is common ground...That is the biggest difference between what the US once was and what Europe is now. The US used to stand for people being able to stand on their own two feet and not wanting a "nanny state" to do everything for them. We were proud of our independence and self-reliance. Now it seems most Americans are just a bunch of namby-pamby Euro socialist wannabes who want government to do everything for them as apparently they are incapable of taking care of themselves...I am sure that at sometime in your life you've needed a helping hand. I expected to rely on friends and family and not the government for it. It is a Faustian bargain that I didn't really want to make." -Wavshrdr

That is an nice thought on the bootstraps theory of the independent American. Unfortunally, the history of the US is awashed with the explotation of Africian-Americans, the original Mexican Americans, Native Americans, and women. If you happen to be born in one of these groups, you had no chance to be independent in any way. Now with the overcrowding of America (have you seen the latest population figures recently?), there is no way all these people could fulfill even the smallest part of the American Dream. The elimination of Welfare in 1996 only seem to make things worse for people living longer, no living wage jobs available for most, poor education opportunities, and crime abound. A few make it-but not most. Families and friends? Where? Most people are now reared in a single parent (usually headed by a woman) family and friends come and go through one's life. If you are lucky, you are born in the right circumstances. Most are not. At least Europe does not have a huge homeless population in their cities.

"I don't know about that. After 9/11 I didn't see a whole lot of people going out and buying folding bicycles. But one of the local gun clubs added nearly 1,000 members in three months...These visions of post-apocalyptic America always remind me of the old joke, "I know I'm paranoid - but am I paranoid enough?" -Garandman

Folding bikes are hidden away in trunks (as Wavshrdr and others seem to have done), in bags or homes. One of the attractive features of these bikes is this ability to hide or disappear when desired. I am not thinking of the end of the world as others here are thinking I do. I am simply chose a bike that is far more flexible and adaptable to different situations. For Bike Friday's take on 9/11/01 and what their members did to address it:

http://bikefriday.com/main.cfm?fuseaction=news.article&ID=105&Category=News (http://bikefriday.com/main.cfm?fuseaction=news.article&ID=105&Category=News)