Hitting the Max Heart Rate

[SniperX]

my max heart rate is 192( obtained thru the polar fitness test ) but i have never ever once hit that before.. the highest i got which was during a race was 177... what does this mean? the polar fitness test is inaccurate ? lack of leg strength or other factors?

[oxologic]

I've heard that a lack of leg strength is possible for not hitting the max heart rate. This is as your legs are not working so hard that it requires the heart to pump at such a high level. Your heart could be able to fuel your legs without hitting the maximum hr. Also, it could be that your max heart rate is 177. The polar fitness test is suposed kind of accurate, I got 202 thru the test but my maximum is 207. It is only a 2% difference or so.

Another thing which I have brought to your attention previously : overtraining. When you are overtrained, it is hard to bring your heart rate up, it just won't go up no matter what. Thus, if it is truely due to overtraining, take it easy. Remember, lesser is sometimes better than more.

[nathank]

i am not familiar with the Polar test - is it an estimate based on something, or do you do some kind of all-out sprint after a good warm-up?

it is quite possible that in a race you don't hit your max, and every day is different, but you should be coming pretty close every so often.

my max is about 194 and i routinely see 178-185 as my max for training rides and races, but rarely higher unless i am doing an ALL OUT effort (sprints or interval training). in a race i don't want to reach my max HR except for the final sprint and often then you don't have full capacity after being tired from the race

i would try another test - basically do a warm-up, and then do a series of 5 1-minute max intensity intervals with 1-2 minutes rest between each repeat. at the end then do an all-out sprint as long and hard as you can. if you really want to know your "real" max, do this 1 day a week for 3 weeks to "overcome" a bad week or a bad day.

note: testing your max HR is strenuous both physcially and mentally - you have to make yourself really hurt to see your max HR.

2nd note: not sure why you're wanting to pinpoint your max HR (or just curious), but the Lactate Threshold (LT) is much more usefull for training and monitoring your workout intensity.

[belfast-biker]

Originally posted by SniperX
my max heart rate is 192( obtained thru the polar fitness test ) but i have never ever once hit that before.. the highest i got which was during a race was 177... what does this mean? the polar fitness test is inaccurate ? lack of leg strength or other factors?



I've read that the polar fitness test is a good estimate for some, and bad for others.

In other words, you'd best find it yourself. See a doctor first etc etc.... Plenty of good info here for doing that I'm sure, with both maximal and submaximal tests being covered probably.

The highest figure I ever seen on mine is 191...so I use that for now. That was on a rower. The highest I've ever seen on the bike was 188. You'll get a high max running, a slightly lower max cycling, and an even lower max swimming. I've yet to try a max test while running, due to a lack of affinity for pain. :)

In any case though, truth be told, I could probably have gone higher if I'd have pushed harder, say if it was a competition with others.

I reckon my absolute balls-to-the-wall max is about 195, but that's a scary place to visit... ;)

[belfast-biker]

Originally posted by nathank
2nd note: not sure why you're wanting to pinpoint your max HR (or just curious), but the Lactate Threshold (LT) is much more usefull for training and monitoring your workout intensity.



True. (I'm slowly getting through these Sally Edwards books.... :) )

[Richard Cranium]

Are there any good websites about trying to "self-test" for maximum HR.
I have a trainer and a HR monitor, I get nowhere near MHR no matter how hard I try. using 220-age thing..... What's up with that?

Should I try to stack some "intervals" how long, how hard?
Am I choosing wrong resistance? What cadence, etc??

Is my heart broken? I have a 36 a.m. resting rate at 50 years old....

I seem to top out at 153-154, I figure I should get 170...

[Bruco]

Richard, unfortunately most of the on-line sources I have collected are in Dutch. Cycling Performance Tips, however, are in English: http://www.cptips.com/.

I have been told to establish the Max HR on the road. The idea is to be in good shape, do a good warm-up of about fifteen minutes and then gradually increase your HR, until it starts to hurt a bit. Then hit a hill and sprint towards the top. Chances are that you will reach your Max HR somewhere (it seriously hurts).

BTW, the 200 minus age formula is to be taken with a grain of salt.

Belfast Biker, please forgive my ignorance, but how to find out one's LT (without paying the doctor a visit)? Is the stage where the legs start to 'burn'?

[nathank]

I get nowhere near MHR no matter how hard I try. using 220-age thing..... What's up with that?

the 220-age thing is an AVERAGE and i think like 80% of people are within 10 beats of this, BUT it can be very diffierent.

do a test - or just take the highest HR you ever see and add a beats or so depending on how "hard" you were riding (10 beats for hard, and 5 beats for "coughing up lung" and 2 beats for puking)

don't worry if you're way off from the 220-age thing. i'm 32 and my max is around 193-194, but i don't really care to know exactly so i haven't tested in a few years now.

and a 36 resting pulse is really low. i am pretty fit and mine is only down to 47. maybe your heart is just efficient or bigger and doesn't have to pump as often...

[knp]

Gday. I've been reading a few books, etc. about measuring MHR. Just about every credible source state that the (220 - Age) rule is inaccurate. In fact, in one of Sally Edwards books she states that MHR can be maintained regardless of age - your personal fitness is the determining factor.

Having said that, to obtain your MHR takes around 15 minutes. With a trainer, start of on the large chainring and a large(ish) rear cog, pedalling at cadence of 90 and a HR of about 120-130 (or whatever feels quite easy). Move up to the next rear cog whilst maintaining the same cadence every 2 minutes or so. Keep repeating this until you can't maintain the cadence any longer - the reading on your HRM will be your MHR.

If you're finding that you can still maintain the same cadence and have run out of gears, try increasing the resistance on your trainer, or if that doesn't work, try letting some air out of your rear tire to increase drag.

If that doesn't work, find a long climb somewhere and knock yourself out! .. :-)

A MHR test is really intense, so unless you're knackered after chances are you haven't reached your limit.

[belfast-biker]

Originally posted by Bruco
Belfast Biker, please forgive my ignorance, but how to find out one's LT (without paying the doctor a visit)? Is the stage where the legs start to 'burn'?


Books are at home, can't remember... there are more knowledgeable ppl here who'll be along in a sec to answer though.... :)

[nathank]

basically, do a 20-50 minute time trail and determine your average or the number you can maintain... i.e. you might ride the first 10 minutes at 169 and then not be able to sustain it and drop down to 165 and start hurting and then drop a little more and then end up holding about 165... so something around 165 is probably your LT. if you have a HR monitor with threshold levels, then use this number as the level and "count" the time above the threshold. for me a normal training ride will have 2-10 minutes above LT and a really hard training ride will have 15-25 minutes above LT. any more than that and your LT is probably higher than what you thought (it can go up or down with training - i raised mine to about 169 at my peak last August but it's back down to 165 now)

here's a bunch of old posts on LT:

origianally posted by me
your LT is about the HR that you can maintain for a 30-60 minute time-trial. you won't be able to exceed the LT for the entire duration (most people can only exceed for 5-10 minutes, while trained athletes can 20-40 minutes and maybe exceptional pros more -- 30 minutes over is a HARD day for me and i usually have 25 over a a typical my weekly "tough" training day)

once you know the LT, and the max, there are formulas to train different things, like base aerobic, LT training, etc. http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19606&highlight=lactate+threshold+test

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthrea...8959#post118959 -- post above + more about max

for some more info on LT:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthrea...ctate+threshold -- my post about LT and Max

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthrea...ctate+threshold -- my post describing how to determine LT and Max

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthrea...ctate+threshold -- about really low or high LTs - a race friend who has LT of 115

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthrea...ctate+threshold -- my post from September when i was thrilled that my LT had risen from low to mid 160s to almost 170! from lots of training and the TransAlp tour

[Guest]

I'm going to reprint the lactate threshold test I posted a few months ago. It can accurately predict your lactate threshold within a few beats, and from there, you can plug and chug the numbers to get the rest of your numbers for your heart rate ranges by assuming your lactate threshold is at the 80%. Once you've done that, run through a high intensity workout and see how easy it is to get to 90%. If it's easy, redo the test, and try to more accurately rate your anaerobic threshold. You may have to do a little adjusting, but generally, people seem to be right on the mark every time they do the test.


________________________________________________________________
THE TEST:

Here's the test for anaerobic threshold. You can get it from Sally Edwards/Sally Reed book- "The Heart Rate Monitor Book for Outdoor and Indoor Cyclists", pp. 92- 94. The test is done on a stationary bike or indoor cycling bike.

The top of Zone 3 is 80%. The top of Zone 2 is 70%. The bottom of Zone 2 is 60%. The bottom of Zone 1 is 50%.
______________________________________________________
2X20 Anaerobic Threshold Test

This is an anaerobic heart rate test designed by David Martin, Ph.D. at Georgia State University. The goal of this workout is to sustain the highest heart rate number you can for 20 minutes, followed by a 5 minute recovery and then sustain the same number again for 20 minutes. After completing both 20 minute intervals, answer the question: Was that hte hardest I could work for the duration of time (40 minutes)? If the answer is yues, then that heart rate number is an excellent estimate of your anaerobic threshold heart rate.

Purpose
Anaerobic theshold is one of the ways of measuring fitness. The higher the percentage of maximum heart rate you can sustain for the duration of the test, the fitter you are. This translates into being able to cycle faster for a longer duration. If you have never done this test before ou may want to be conservative the first time until you get the feel for what is happeniing and what is expected. Retest in a month or six weeks to see if you are getting fitter. It is important that you are fully rested before doing this test and that you give yourself a minimum of 48 hours of rest from riding above heart Zone 3.

Workout Plan
Warm up for 5 minutes to the bottom of Zone 2, then gradually increase heart rate for the next 5 minutes until you reach the heart rate number that you thinnk you can sustain for 20 minutes. Sustain that number for 20 minutes. You may choose to use cadence, resistance/gearing or any combination you wish to sustain the heart rate. After 20 minutes, recover to the bottom of Zone 2 for 5 minutes. Make sure you drink plenty of water and allow your legs and body to relax.

After 5 minutes of recovery begin to increase your heart rate agian over the next 3 minutes until you have reached the same heart rate number that you sustained for the first 20 minutes. Sustain that heart rate for a second 20 minutes, then warm down over the next 7 minutes to Zone 1.

________________________________________________________

Keep in mind, you are looking for ONE NUMBER.... not a RANGE OF NUMBERS... Often, I'll run through the first 20 minutes with my students, then when I talk to them in the 5 minute break, they say something like, "oh, I was between 156- 160". Aaaaaaaugh!!!!!!!!!! You are looking for that one number, not a range. So if it's 160, it's ONLY 160... not a range of different numbers that's "around" 160.

This is just a taste of the test, but there's a performance based heart rate chart that you can look at to find that number for anaerobic threshold (80%), and easily read the chart for the rest of the numbers in your heart rate ranges. That's why I suggest you get the book. It's also a great book because it gives outdoor and indoor training exercises you can do to improve your fitness level. If you don't have the book and you want to do the test right away, go to the website: http://www.heartzone.com/index.shtml
Over there, click on the link that says "HEART RATE CALCULATOR". About halfway down the page, there is a heart rate calculator that you can use that will break your heart rates down into zones. You will have to fiddle around with max heart rate, since you didn't test for max hr, but if you keep entering numbers in the max heart rate, you'll eventually find the correct numbers to use. I used my example of 160 as my anaerobic threshold (80%), and I started by entering 195 as my max (guessing). It was a bit low, so I entered 200 as my max hr, and this time, I got correct numbers, because the 80% on the chart came out at 160. I hope that makes sense. If it doesn't, get the book.

________________________________________________________________

The actual link to the description I gave about lactic acid and anaerobic threshold is: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20353&highlight=koffee+brown+lactic+acid

It was an interesting discussion.

Koff

[fubar5]

Hitting your max sucks!!! Don't try it!!

basically, you have to increase intensity by a certain amount every 2 minutes or so, and when you can't go any longer, go all out. You will be sick and seeing stars at the end, and you should have someone there to catch you.

I usually try to hit my max once a week or so.

[RunYun]

Find a really long steep hill (After warming up of course) and give it everything that you have got. That's how I do it. When you can't go anymore pull off and lay on the grass you will need the rest. :D

[roadbuzz]

Originally posted by SniperX
the polar fitness test is inaccurate ?
That's a given. It's simply a best guess, based on the age, weight, and other data you've supplied, possibly cross-referenced somehow with your resting pulse when you took the test.

As others have said above, the lactic threshold HR is a lot more useful to know than max HR. (And easier to find out.)

But! If you're really interested, you might be able to use your race max HR as a good starting place to estimate your actual max HR. How hard did it feel like you were working when you hit that HR? You probably don't know the moment you hit that point, but it was probably following your hardest exertion. If you were completely warmed up, and it was an all-out, can't possibly do any more, hanging on for dear life effort, your max HR is probably several bpm higher... say 182. There are lots of variables... this is just one more datapoint.

[roadbuzz]

Originally posted by fubar5
Hitting your max sucks!!! Don't try it!!
...
I usually try to hit my max once a week or so.

Fubar5, you are da man!
:D :thumbup:

[Richard Cranium]

Hey, thanks for all the info, I had forgotten I had read about the "Canconi" method along time ago. It talks about the "holding on to speed" on a hill.

So here's what I'm going to do-- see if this sounds right....

After easy rest day, one or two hours of easy cycling.

I get on trainer, warm up 10 min.

Go to 100-105rpm in "12th" gear for 6 minutes
go to 13th gear for 4min
go to high gear for 2min and see if I'm at previous MAX
in not, dialup resistance and try it again later......

or if I am at a near MAX rate, rest 30 seconds and repeat 2min in highgear?

Thanks for all the info about LT too, I'm going get scientific one of these days.

[wyobiker]

I think I found a new method of finding either your lactate threshold or maximum heart rate on my ride today. About 25 miles into my ride doing a 500 ft rise some d@%$#* dog came out of nowhere trying to rip my leg off. I never realized dogs could run so fast so long. I was pedaling along around 16-17 MPH when he surprised me and I quickly pumped it up to 20 but the darn thing kept gaining! I finally dropped him after about 1000 ft and 22 MPH. Of course wouldn't you know it - this was a new route I decided to take and the blacktop stopped about 5 miles later meaning I had to backtrack my route. Luckily the dog was nowhere in sight when I went back. It wasn't until I returned home and downloaded my HR monitor that I could clearly see where I came across the dog. My normal high had been 172 but I hit 186 today! Nothing like a attack dog to get your heart pumping. ;-)

[Pat]

A 22 mph dog is a fast dog Wyobikr.

I was cruising along with a really good tail wind at 25 mph. A big all black german shepherd came out of his yard at me and he did not have the angle on me. I thought "hoo-hoo, you don't have a chance dog". Well, I glanced back and he was reeling me in. He breathed at every stride and his white teeth seemed to flash in the sun. I cranked it up to 27 mph. I wanted to see what the dog could do. At 27, I held him off.

The next day, I was on the same course. This time I had a brisk head wind and getting to 27 mph would have been very difficult. But something told me, I didn't need to be worried. I rode by the dog's yard and there he was. He just woofed at me and wagged his tail as I rode by. I think the day before he thought "Sheesh that guy is moving, wonder if I can catch him?".

[southportgym]

If possible, find a time trial to do. With the formula 220-age, I get an estimated max of 189. At the tt.. avg. 180 max at 197. Haven't gotten over 200 yet. Basically, everyone is different. No "testing" situation was ever going to get my heart rate that high.. I needed a race to really find a max.

[flyefisher]

My MHR in the fall and early spring was 197. I now find it really hard to go over 185. I feel like if I pedal that hard I'll be so out of it I'll probably crash my bike!

[roadbuzz]

Originally posted by flyefisher
My MHR in the fall and early spring was 197. I now find it really hard to go over 185.
That could be a symptom of overtraining. An excerpt from The Lance Armstrong Performance Program, By LA & Chris Carmichael, 2000

But lately, even though you don't feel particularly tired, you've been having trouble raising your heart rate to the correct levels for your workouts. That's a sure sign of overtraining--and a clear indicator that you're long overdue for a week of recovery.
I guess the main caveat in the above is they're talking about HR for various workout efforts, not MHR. Of course, if you're having trouble reaching workout thresholds, you're d@mn sure not going to reach your max. Whether it applies to your situation, you be the judge.