Reccomendations on student folder

[cellophane]

Ok, bike newbie here, please humor me.

Situation: college student, bike ~3 miles to/from school, around town, weekends. Currently I ride a $200 hardtail mtb, which would be fine, if 3 days a week I didn't catch a ride from school into town in various people's cars. I can't set up the bike rack all the time for that. I am thinking of buying a folder so I can accept these rides and not bike home late at night. I can go with a cheap bike and keep the mtb, or sell it and buy a nicer folder.

What kind of bike to go with: Full-sized or mini, suspended or not? Btw I am 5' 5" 120 lbs, female.
Speeds: It seems like most folders have 7 speeds or less. However, the hills here are walk-ups for most riders. I use the granny gear all the time on the hills and never use the higher gears on the bike (21 speed) to avoid sweating as there are no showers at work. What kind of gearing on a small-wheeled bike can handle major hills? If a small-wheeled bike isn't as efficient, I would buy a Dahon full-sized, because I could blend in better at work, and space is not my main concern.

Suspension: Roads here almost require it. I guess big apple tires would help, but I jump curbs and ride on some dirt trails. But, if this is not what a folder can do, then I don't have to do it. I sit on the climbs, so loss of speed is not a big concern. But I see suspension limits my choice of bikes to very few, especially with my concern with the gears.
So, recommend away please!!!

I was thinking Dahon matrix as it is the only bike I saw with suspension and more gears. I'd go with the $350 Expresso, but it lacks suspension. I see Downtube has a cheap hardtail, but it is a 20" and has 7 speeds only. Anybody rides these bikes and can comment?
thanks in advance!!!

[juan162]

Cellophane,

Keep in mind that more gears doesn't equal better. I suggest reading this page at Gaerlan.com:

http://gaerlan.com/dahon/gear.htm

I suggest figuring out the gear ratio or gear inches that you use for the hills in your area. Once you know what gear ratio or gear inches you need to climb your hills, you can find out if the lowest gear on any of the folders you are looking at will be sufficient.

Juan

[folder fanatic]

Situation: college student, bike ~3 miles to/from school, around town, weekends. Currently I ride a $200 hardtail mtb, which would be fine, if 3 days a week I didn't catch a ride from school into town in various people's cars. I can't set up the bike rack all the time for that. I am thinking of buying a folder so I can accept these rides and not bike home late at night. I can go with a cheap bike and keep the mtb, or sell it and buy a nicer folder. So, recommend away please!!!

When I bought my first folding bike, I bought the basic model with no frills, and added what I needed to get the bike I wanted. For your first folder, I recommend you purchase a simplier, basic no frills model, live with it for a while, see how it fits in with your life, then buy a better one (that is what I did). I would buy a simple model the first time and keep the mtb for the times that you know that you won't need the folder. I still have my old favorite three speed bike. I never felt the need to sell it since the money made from it won't make much a dent in the price of a new bike. I think you could safely keep both bikes. Until then, let's focus on finding the right bike for you.


What kind of bike to go with: Full-sized or mini, suspended or not? Btw I am 5' 5" 120 lbs, female.
Speeds: It seems like most folders have 7 speeds or less. However, the hills here are walk-ups for most riders. I use the granny gear all the time on the hills and never use the higher gears on the bike (21 speed) to avoid sweating as there are no showers at work. What kind of gearing on a small-wheeled bike can handle major hills? If a small-wheeled bike isn't as efficient, I would buy a Dahon full-sized, because I could blend in better at work, and space is not my main concern.

I think that you need a Dahon full size 26 inch bike for the terrain that you are in. All my folders are geared for hills, but I am not shy about walking up an especially steep one. Maybe that is not your style.

Suspension: Roads here almost require it. I guess big apple tires would help, but I jump curbs and ride on some dirt trails. But, if this is not what a folder can do, then I don't have to do it. I sit on the climbs, so loss of speed is not a big concern. But I see suspension limits my choice of bikes to very few, especially with my concern with the gears.

My suspension needs are satisfied by the sprung saddles on all my bikes. Perhaps that is not enough for you. No problem. Stick with 20 or 26 inch bikes that have some suspension on that particular model. The Big Apple tires are an excellent choice for the "big tire" suspension of the old cruisers without the drag.


I was thinking Dahon matrix as it is the only bike I saw with suspension and more gears. I'd go with the $350 Expresso, but it lacks suspension. I see Downtube has a cheap hardtail, but it is a 20" and has 7 speeds only. Anybody rides these bikes and can comment?

You are in the right direction with the Matrix. The Expresso could have some sort of suspension added at the shop, but not without adding some additional costs that you would be better off going up to the Matrix. There are other companies offering the 26 inch full size folders like Montague's folding bikes that you might also consider. Whatever you choose, make sure that you go to the dealers that have some of these bikes at their shops so you could make a better choice for youself. You can't afford to make a mistake by selecting a bike you did not even see before purchase.

For more ideas, please see my web sites below:

[makeinu]

What kind of bike to go with: Full-sized or mini, suspended or not? Btw I am 5' 5" 120 lbs, female.
Speeds: It seems like most folders have 7 speeds or less. However, the hills here are walk-ups for most riders. I use the granny gear all the time on the hills and never use the higher gears on the bike (21 speed) to avoid sweating as there are no showers at work. What kind of gearing on a small-wheeled bike can handle major hills? If a small-wheeled bike isn't as efficient, I would buy a Dahon full-sized, because I could blend in better at work, and space is not my main concern.

Like you said, you don't even use all 21 speeds on your current bike. What is the gear range on your 21 speed anyway? It probably doesn't have a larger range than a 7 speed (just finer steps). So how about just lowering the gearing on one of the 20" wheel 7 speed folders by putting in a larger rear sprocket or smaller chainwheel?

It shouldn't be difficult or expensive to do this. If you have the knowhow why not get a front suspension downtube for $300 and do the mod yourself? Otherwise, I recommend talking to your local Dahon dealer. They might be willing to make the change for free if you pay full retail for the bike.

I think that you need a Dahon full size 26 inch bike for the terrain that you are in.

I wouldn't recommend a 26" folder for sticking in a trunk on short notice. An average sized trunk would probably have to be completely empty to fit it and even a large trunk would probably need to be mostly empty.

[14R]

Graduate student here, got my first folder under similar circumstances. I would DEFINATELY go with a 16" wheeled bike that you can get a ride with it seating on your lap on most sedans. You don't need suspension and you don't need lots of gears. I suggest the following:

1-Bromptons - Neatly folded, the smallest pack. Nice suspension (rear)

2-Dahon Curve - Not as small, but less than 1/2 the price of a Brompton. Quite sexy too;

3-Downtube Mini - Better than the Curve, with more gears and room for upgrades, bu does not fold as compact and doesn't have anything to keep it folded once folded (i.e., a little harder to walk around while on folded mode).

R.

PS: You can always check on E-Bay or Craiglist for some used Folders. There is a Nice Brompton Ti with all the upgrades that I am bidding on right now that would cost over US$2000.00 and I'm sure it will go for way less than that. Just make sure if you use E-Bay to check the seller's feedback since there are some people selling one thing and advertising another.

[invisiblehand]

Graduate student here, got my first folder under similar circumstances. I would DEFINATELY go with a 16" wheeled bike that you can get a ride with it seating on your lap on most sedans. You don't need suspension and you don't need lots of gears. I suggest the following:

1-Bromptons - Neatly folded, the smallest pack. Nice suspension (rear)

2-Dahon Curve - Not as small, but less than 1/2 the price of a Brompton. Quite sexy too;

3-Downtube Mini - Better than the Curve, with more gears and room for upgrades, bu does not fold as compact and doesn't have anything to keep it folded once folded (i.e., a little harder to walk around while on folded mode).

R.

PS: You can always check on E-Bay or Craiglist for some used Folders. There is a Nice Brompton Ti with all the upgrades that I am bidding on right now that would cost over US$2000.00 and I'm sure it will go for way less than that. Just make sure if you use E-Bay to check the seller's feedback since there are some people selling one thing and advertising another.

I agree with R.

My wife and I just tried a Downtube Mini. From what you describe, it sounds like a good fit. Ergonomically, it fit my wife well (5'4", 115 lbs). As a guy recovering from a knee injury--and my repeated posts about it :p --I can tell you that I am pretty sensitive to a bike's gearing. The 8-speed hub with the small wheels seems to be adequate for some hilly sections of Eastern Pennsylvania.

I do think that you can save money on a Dahon and that the gear range can be adjusted to suit your needs.

More generally, 20" wheels would be fine too. But the 16" wheels are certainly more convenient for commuting and such. Your friends that give you a ride will probably appreciate the extra leftover space that using a 16" bike would give them.

Note that in my opinion, efficiency really isn't an issue here. There are a lot of threads on the topic. Long story short, there isn't much of a difference.

[makeinu]

Graduate student here, got my first folder under similar circumstances. I would DEFINATELY go with a 16" wheeled bike that you can get a ride with it seating on your lap on most sedans. You don't need suspension and you don't need lots of gears. I suggest the following:

1-Bromptons - Neatly folded, the smallest pack. Nice suspension (rear)

2-Dahon Curve - Not as small, but less than 1/2 the price of a Brompton. Quite sexy too;

3-Downtube Mini - Better than the Curve, with more gears and room for upgrades, bu does not fold as compact and doesn't have anything to keep it folded once folded (i.e., a little harder to walk around while on folded mode).
Why would she go with a 3-speed bike like a Brompton or a Curve when she is worried that even a seven speed bike won't have enough gears for her very hilly commute? Also, what's wrong with getting a 20" wheeler and putting the bike in the trunk?

More generally, 20" wheels would be fine too. But the 16" wheels are certainly more convenient for commuting and such. Your friends that give you a ride will probably appreciate the extra leftover space that using a 16" bike would give them.
But the OP isn't looking for a bike for multimode commuting. She wants to occasionally be able to get a ride without the hassle of a bike rack. 16" is complete overkill for what she wants.

EDIT: gender correction

[invisiblehand]

But the OP isn't looking for a bike for multimode commuting. He wants to occasionally be able to get a ride without the hassle of a bike rack. 16" is complete overkill for what he wants.

Well, I read that she receives rides home three times a week. The smaller wheels certainly make it considerably easier to get the bike into car trunks without being obtrusive. There is no explicit description of the type of rides she does on weekends; but I get the sense that she is a casual rider. She writes that there are a lot of hills where she goes to school. Given that her size seems to be roughly my wife's size, my guess is that the bike will fit her well.

For these reasons, and any I wrote earlier, I think that the Mini's small wheels will perform and fulfill her needs well.

[BruceMetras]

Well, I read that she receives rides home three times a week. The smaller wheels certainly make it considerably easier to get the bike into car trunks without being obtrusive. There is no explicit description of the type of rides she does on weekends; but I get the sense that she is a casual rider. She writes that there are a lot of hills where she goes to school. Given that her size seems to be roughly my wife's size, my guess is that the bike will fit her well.

For these reasons, and any I wrote earlier, I think that the Mini's small wheels will perform and fulfill her needs well.

Good points... I'd also enthusiastically recommend the Downtube Mini... both my ex-wife and my current gf have a Mini and are roughly the same size as the OP and the bikes fit them perfectly.. there is some active rear suspension on the Mini which smooths the jolts and the seat is pretty cushy also... the 8spd Sturmy hub means no derailleurs getting banged about in friend' trunks, and a gear range of over 300%... big selling point for my ex was when I let her try a couple of 20" Dahons that I had. She was instantly impressed with how stable the 16" Mini was.. she was also able to get it in the back of her Honda CRV with little effort... the Mini would be a terrific choice for the parameters mentioned in this thread... the only thing I would personally change out would be to go with a set of Schwalbe Big Apple tires, just to get a little more rubber on the road and possibly better rolling performance with the bonus of additional suspension of the big volume tires..

Bruce

[14R]

Why would she go with a 3-speed bike like a Brompton or a Curve when she is worried that even a seven speed bike won't have enough gears for her very hilly commute? Also, what's wrong with getting a 20" wheeler and putting the bike in the trunk?

She is worried that even a seven speed bike won't have enough gears for her hilly commute because she doesn't understand that she only needs one gear for her hilly commute. Like Juan said, "Keep in mind that more gears doesn't equal better." I second the suggestion and also link to the page at Gaerlan.com:

http://gaerlan.com/dahon/gear.htm


Getting a 20" Wheeler and putting the bike in a trunk creates the need for 1) a trunk and 2) an EMPTY trunk since a 20" wheeler will take pretty much all the space. since the OP is asking for favors, I still believe she can get any rides with her 20" wheeler bike but her chances for a second ride with the same driver will increase if she has a 16" bike. It is sad, but true. I'm not a girl, but I've been on campus with both bikes (16" and 20") and even tough I didn't conduct a double blind, controlled reseach, I truly believe that giving rides to people with big 20" bikes is more inconvenient that giving the same ride, to the same person and a 16" wheeler.

[Polaris43]

Well, I read that she receives rides home three times a week. The smaller wheels certainly make it considerably easier to get the bike into car trunks without being obtrusive. There is no explicit description of the type of rides she does on weekends; but I get the sense that she is a casual rider. She writes that there are a lot of hills where she goes to school. Given that her size seems to be roughly my wife's size, my guess is that the bike will fit her well.

For these reasons, and any I wrote earlier, I think that the Mini's small wheels will perform and fulfill her needs well.

+1

As a person who owns BOTH a Downtube Mini and a DT 20" VIIIH, I can tell you that the difference in function is minimal but the difference in portability - getting it in and out of the car - both from a size and weight perspective is not insignificant.

Also, I had to downsize the chain ring on the VIIIH as the gears were way too tall as delivered and climbing even small hills was a chore.

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned in this tread is internally geared hub vs. dérailleur. If you are going to be folding and putting it into someone else's car, the internal gear hub is less messy for you, less prone to damage and provides less opportunity to get the car greasy. Your friends will thank you for that.

OP - where do you go to school - geographically speaking - what city?

[DaFriMon]

Ok, bike newbie here, please humor me . . . It seems like most folders have 7 speeds or less. However, the hills here are walk-ups for most riders. I use the granny gear all the time on the hills and never use the higher gears on the bike (21 speed) to avoid sweating as there are no showers at work. What kind of gearing on a small-wheeled bike can handle major hills? . . .

When you say you use your granny gear, what actually is your low gear on your mountain bike? If we knew what is presently adequate for you, it might be easier to say which folder meet that spec. If you aren't sure, you can figure it out (in gear inches) from this gear calculator ( http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears/ )

A typical 7 or 8 speed rear derailleur folder, with 20 inch wheels, usually has a low gear around 31 to 35 gear inches. My own experience is that there aren't many hills I can't get up with that. Maybe if I saw the actual hills in your area I'd eat my words. As a student, maybe you're lugging around a lot of heavy books, so you might indeed need a lower gear. One way to get that would just be to change out the chainring for a smaller one, or have a shop do it for you. Of course, your higher gears won't be as high either, but I gather you could live with that.

Or you could just get the Matrix. The only problem I'd have with those larger wheeled folders is that, as other people have been pointing out, they just aren't as portable.

About rough roads, the 16 inch Big Apple tires on my Curve do a lot to soak up shock. That particular bike probably wouldn't have enough gear range for you, but I'd guess that the 20 inch version of the tires would work for you, if you go with something like a Dahon Speed D7 or P8. Or, yes, you could get a model with suspension. Lots of good choices, and I don't really want to mention just one model.

[cellophane]

thanks guys for the replies!
I now realize that there are a lot more options available to me. There is one Dahon dealer in my area that stocks 2 models of the bikes. I happen to live in Hawaii, where space is a premium but folding bikes are rarely seen.
Last question, there are no bike paths here. Do you folder owners feel that drivers tend to be more "aggressive" when they see you on a bike that "looks like a kid's toy"? No matter how much I take the lane on my 26" wheeled mtb, drivers will swerve around me, even to the point of going 100% into the oncoming lane (on blind corners, crazy idiots!). I wonder if the drivers will interpret the small wheels as permission to dominate the road even more, because I have had people tell me to get off the road with my "little bike"!

[Fear&Trembling]

Last question, there are no bike paths here. Do you folder owners feel that drivers tend to be more "aggressive" when they see you on a bike that "looks like a kid's toy"

That is a very interesting question and one that I have not resolved to my own satisfaction. Unfortunately, there is no scientific/statistical data that I am aware of that looks at the behaviour of motorists with respect to those who ride different types of bikes, let alone a study on small-wheeled folding bikes in particular (hardly surprising). However, I would contend that the way you handle your bike, your situational awareness and your road positioning will have a greater impact on both your safety and how other motorists perceive/mix with you.

In addition, there are other factors to consider that 'may' contribute to your treatment: gender, gear (helmet, Hi-Viz...) volume of cyclists on the road, or just a moronic, inconsiderate motorist etc

I could go even more "anecdotal" on this issue, but I very much doubt it would illuminate matters...

[SesameCrunch]

Last question, there are no bike paths here. Do you folder owners feel that drivers tend to be more "aggressive" when they see you on a bike that "looks like a kid's toy"?

How busy are your streets? If they're residential, then OK. If commercial roads with stop lights, driveways, etc., I personally would be scared to ride them on 16" wheels.

[keithnyc]

cello-
I was considering the espreso or the dahon speed d7. I went with the speed and it was the right decision. I like the look and price of the '06 model of the Speed (all in price of $300) and it folds like a charm, much smaller than the espreso which is a big plus if you want to bring the bike onto the subway or bus, or if you don't feel like locking it up (and instead, carry it into your Star$ shop......). The 7 gears work like a charm on hills, as well.
Hope this helps

[Polaris43]

How busy are your streets? If they're residential, then OK. If commercial roads with stop lights, driveways, etc., I personally would be scared to ride them on 16" wheels.


I don't get this...

The thing that makes you visable is you... your body. Your body position and size are the same (or within a few inches) on a 16 inch bike as on a 26 inch bike. If I put my DT Mini and my 26" MTB side by side, the seat and handle bar heights are nearly identical, within 2 inches.

I'm sure there are jerks (drivers and other cyclists alike) that will make comments about small wheels but they probably aren't going to be any less of a jerk if you are riding a "real" bike.

Make your decision based on your needs - size, weight, portability and to hell with what people on the road or elsewhere think.

I don't think you are going to be any more or less safe based on what size bike you ride. This isn't like choosing between a Geo and an SUV. Be as safe as you can be by using lights, proper clothing and obeying the traffic laws. That's about all you can do and hope that the people in the cars do the same.

[spambait11]

I don't get this...
I agree.

The only time you have to fear 16" wheels is when you're riding at night without a light on unlit roads. Probably worse if you're off-roads. But if this is ever the case, just don't ride too fast.

[14R]

It may be psychological, but I ride my Urban Cannondale Bad Boy Ultra to school 100% with traffic and I do not feel ANY confortable doing the same thing with my 20" or 16" wheelers. But Polaris and Spambait are right, besides comments, nothing really changes.

[invisiblehand]

I agree with F&T's points. If anything, anecdotally speaking, the small-wheel bike will attract more attention and motorists will notice you more.

If you want tips on commuting, riding with traffic, or maintaining high visibility, then you might want to check out the commuter forum. Personally, I ride with a front and rear blinky on the bike, a rear blinky on the helmet, and reflective armbands with lights.

[juan162]

Hi,

Just another voice chiming in with the "don't worry about the traffic" side. I ride my folder anywhere I would ride my full size bike. I get jerks who drive past me just inches from my arm or honk their horns no matter what I ride. If you can take it on your full size bike, it'll be the same for you on the folder.
If you haven't already, I again urge you to figure out the actual size of your granny gear so that you can get the correct gearing for you,

Juan

[DaFriMon]

It sometimes seems to me that drivers are more cautious when approaching me when I'm on one of my folders. I've speculated that, from a distance, they may think I'm an adolescent on a BMX bike. Then they get closer and don't know what to think.

But this is hard to pin down, and I may be wrong. There are still enough &%*$!!s who pass with inches to spare, or cut me off at intersections.

Besides the over-aggressive drivers, there are the timid souls who see a bicyclist in the road and just freeze. I see them in my rear view mirror, hovering back there, terrified to pass even when the road ahead is clear, perhaps thinking that I'll suddenly dart across the road at any moment. Then they'll get up their courage, go all the way over to the other side of the road, and go past me.

Then the next twenty drivers, who were held up by that one car, will give me dirty looks as they pass.

[cellophane]

DaFriMon, I know what you mean. I use a 5-way intersection daily, and some drivers don't even know the rules of the road for cars there, much less bikes. There will be a driver who waits, and waits, and waits. Suddenly they zoom across the intersection when it's my or someone else's right of way. The other drivers feel that they are justified to go ahead of me since they waited for that minute (30 seconds?). But thats enough of the bad driver talk.

I did test drive a 20" Dahon today. I believe it was the Helios model, with 8 speeds. It's true that nothing can beat a in person test ride. I loved the portability. So light! So tiny! However when I was test riding it one thing kind of biased me against the smaller-wheeled bikes; I rode across an uneven sidewalk with a crack running parallel to my riding direction. Because I was not used to the bike, I nearly lost control (thank goodness the seat was low), more so than I would have with a bigger wheel I think. The quick, twitchy, responsive little bike is the antithesis of my huge, slow, bash-it-around mtb. Great for agile riders. But, I am not an agile rider. Some people swerve out of dangerous situations ie potholes, wheelchair ramps on sidewalks, pedestrians, etc, but I take the other route: jump on or off the curb, ride into the potholes so I don't get hit by cars, etc. I guess it is possible to change my riding style to adapt to the bike, but at this point I don't really want to get road rash while learning.

One thing is the salesperson told me that the shop reccomends riding on sidewalks almost all the time in Hawaii, except for Waikiki (tourists). I was surprised. I think that sidewalks are good for the folders, and folders are good for the sidewalks (ie they are not good for potholes, but can swerve around pedestrians). So if I rode on the sidewalks, yeah, I would buy the helios right there. But where I live there ain't no stinking sidewalks! Plus I hate riding on the sidewalks because I'm a vehicle! So I've pretty much decided to get a Dahon Matrix, or the cheap Swissbike/Montague. Too bad theres gripshifts thought :( I found out today I need that suspension, and the confident feeling I get with a "big" bike. Gearing, I realized, IS fairly irrelavent to my decision. One day when I move into a city, or as I get more confident with riding, I'll check out the smaller bikes again.

One last thing: as I was biking to the lbs, I saw someone waiting for the bus with one of those Hummer bikes. As I biked back from the lbs, right next to me was this old dude on an equally ancient-looking 16" Dahon. There was a milk crate ziptied to the back so I'm not sure if it was all that portable :)
Maybe people all over here have folders, and I never noticed them till I needed them... I do like the fact that nobody could tell the Hummer folded. Sometimes blending in is important.

So...anyone who's ridden the full-sized folders care to comment?

[folder fanatic]

DaFriMon, I know what you mean. I use a 5-way intersection daily, and some drivers don't even know the rules of the road for cars there, much less bikes. There will be a driver who waits, and waits, and waits. Suddenly they zoom across the intersection when it's my or someone else's right of way. The other drivers feel that they are justified to go ahead of me since they waited for that minute (30 seconds?). But thats enough of the bad driver talk.

I did test drive a 20" Dahon today. I believe it was the Helios model, with 8 speeds. It's true that nothing can beat a in person test ride. I loved the portability. So light! So tiny! However when I was test riding it one thing kind of biased me against the smaller-wheeled bikes; I rode across an uneven sidewalk with a crack running parallel to my riding direction. Because I was not used to the bike, I nearly lost control (thank goodness the seat was low), more so than I would have with a bigger wheel I think. The quick, twitchy, responsive little bike is the antithesis of my huge, slow, bash-it-around mtb. Great for agile riders. But, I am not an agile rider. Some people swerve out of dangerous situations ie potholes, wheelchair ramps on sidewalks, pedestrians, etc, but I take the other route: jump on or off the curb, ride into the potholes so I don't get hit by cars, etc. I guess it is possible to change my riding style to adapt to the bike, but at this point I don't really want to get road rash while learning.

One thing is the salesperson told me that the shop reccomends riding on sidewalks almost all the time in Hawaii, except for Waikiki (tourists). I was surprised. I think that sidewalks are good for the folders, and folders are good for the sidewalks (ie they are not good for potholes, but can swerve around pedestrians). So if I rode on the sidewalks, yeah, I would buy the helios right there. But where I live there ain't no stinking sidewalks! Plus I hate riding on the sidewalks because I'm a vehicle! So I've pretty much decided to get a Dahon Matrix, or the cheap Swissbike/Montague. Too bad theres gripshifts thought :( I found out today I need that suspension, and the confident feeling I get with a "big" bike. Gearing, I realized, IS fairly irrelavent to my decision. One day when I move into a city, or as I get more confident with riding, I'll check out the smaller bikes again.

One last thing: as I was biking to the lbs, I saw someone waiting for the bus with one of those Hummer bikes. As I biked back from the lbs, right next to me was this old dude on an equally ancient-looking 16" Dahon. There was a milk crate ziptied to the back so I'm not sure if it was all that portable :)
Maybe people all over here have folders, and I never noticed them till I needed them... I do like the fact that nobody could tell the Hummer folded. Sometimes blending in is important.

So...anyone who's ridden the full-sized folders care to comment?

I think I could offer you some perspective on full size vs. more compact folding bikes. I own at present 4 bikes 1-non folding 26 inch wheel full size 3 speed bike, 3-folding bikes 2 with 16 inch wheels and 1 with 20 inch wheels. All bikes have a steel frame. All have a Sturmey-Archer AW three speed hub from various years. All have been geared for a hilly somewhat uneven paved roads that surround my house. I have test rode a 2005 Zero-G (no longer available at Dahon) at the last Bike Expo in Southern California. So here goes:

The Matrix is the sucessor to the Zero-G. I rode the Zero-G for as long as I wanted on a very slick indoor track. I was very impressed with it's handling in a very slick not too sure hard finished cement as the indoor function was held. The shifting was sure and quick. It was a "real" bike as far as it is exactly the same as any other bike except it folds neatly. The only folding bike that I own that matches this sureness is my Boardwalk (20 inch wheel). The tires on that bike is 1.50 in diameter and semi treaded. I ride it in the streets that are not very well maintained in my area. I also prefer the old Phillips full sized 3 speed at 26" tires for this type of riding. The major differences that appears to be between the Montague and the Dahon full size bikes is the Montague's front tire is taken off when in the folded position and the Dahon's appears to not do the same. The Dahon's handlebars are turned in flush with the frame for more compactness at that point. So I would recommend to study both bike's manuals for their own folding techiques, specs, and other information on their official websites, plus speaking with their owners, before deciding which company's bike would fit the bill for you. Then go to the nearest dealer of that bike and test ride something before you lay out your money. Don't be shy to ask questions when you are serious about a purchase.

Let us know what you decided to do.

[geo8rge]

Consider taking a bike maintenance course. See what bikes students that are leaving are selling.

"suspension and more gears"
Consider a three or more speed internally geared hub I think it would be better for you maintenance wise.

The suspension is not going to do much for you unless the pavement is really bad and you ride really fast over it. Consider a headlamp you will mount on your head to avoid bumps at night. A better investment might be a fancy saddle like Brooks, or a thudbuster suspension post, if you really need themq.

[willzz]

i have both... 20" and 26" folders..
you are right about the pro/con on 20" and 26"
but you can't have it both ways..
the 26" is hard to fit in the backseat.. or trunk..plus it's heavy...
the 20" takes getting use to..but you'll learn to like it for all it's advantages..
you just can't get it both ways...you need to choose one..
you're right about waikiki..
they wanted to give me a ticket for riding on the sidewalk..
but i'm from the mainland... so they gave me a warning..
everywhere else on the island was ok..

[keithnyc]

Not sure how critically important suspension is for you, but consider either the:

2007 Dahon MU (Big Apple wheels makes the ride much smoother) or
2006 Speed D7 (the price is right, but no suspension and regular wheels). This was my choice due to price; I find the ride very comfortable, especially in the City).

One more point, there is a huge difference in the folding size of the 20" vs. the 26", which is the main reason I went with the Dahon Speed D7 as opposed to the Dahon Espreso. The Speed is much easier to fold and transport on the subway or the bus. The Espreso? Fugettabouddit! The folding espreso is easier to store than a non folder, but the extra 6" makes it clunky when using public transportation.

[folder fanatic]

Not sure how critically important suspension is for you, but consider either the:

2007 Dahon MU (Big Apple wheels makes the ride much smoother) or
2006 Speed D7 (the price is right, but no suspension and regular wheels). This was my choice due to price; I find the ride very comfortable, especially in the City).

One more point, there is a huge difference in the folding size of the 20" vs. the 26", which is the main reason I went with the Dahon Speed D7 as opposed to the Dahon Espreso. The Speed is much easier to fold and transport on the subway or the bus. The Espreso? Fugettabouddit! The folding espreso is easier to store than a non folder, but the extra 6" makes it clunky when using public transportation.

It is a balancing act when it comes to choosing between the smaller vs. the larger wheels. I tend to limit the size of my wheels to no more than 20 inches when I buy a model. I chose flexibility over limited loss of comfort since I tend to demand more out of my bikes than a regular non folding ones. I do agree it takes a little getting used to since I came from larger diameter wheeled bikes originally. I personally only took a few moments to get my bearings and ride comfortably with my first folding bike. If she does not like the bike in that space of time, she will resist using it and it would be a waste of money. Besides there are a few tricks to do to add some extra suspension to a smaller wheel folder.