Bemoaning Change in LBS

[DnvrFox]

Well, my LBS has gone from a medium size shop to a large shop. The owner (a lady) retired, and her husband, Hans, a retired teacher who was also a top-notch mechanic, no longer works there.

I went in a couple of days ago and said, "Is Hans around?"

I was told rather brusquely by some young'un that "Hans no longer works here," as he made a tiny moment of time for me between his busy phone calling.

And Hans UNDERSTOOD me and my riding. He knew how to adjust the fit for someone as they get a bit more chronologically gifted. He knew if a repair was not done correctly, and he would see to it that it was properly redone, if it was required. He could suggest moderately priced solutions to concerns and problems.

I did not like the attitude of the new folks, and I don't really trust the new wrenches yet. They already screwed up a bearing repair, which Hans had them redo for me.

What they don't know is that, while I may look like a Fred, I also am the leader of a bike group who look to me for bike shop recommendations for service and new bikes.

And they are now the only LBS close by - one went out of business, the other's owner died!

Time to revamp. But I will give them one more chance, after I discuss this with the manager.

[stapfam]

My LBS may be in trouble. Bike shops are closing left right and centre- but hopefully- my LBS will be the one to survive.

I have a great number of friends in cycling, and one of them decided to buy a new bike recently. He knows I use this particular shop and he mentioned my name. Not only did he get the bike fit treatment and they asked if he could wait till they got the right frame size in for him,Which he did, They gave him a Bike kit of water bottle- seat bag with tube- tyre levers- patch kit. and a good pump. Oh and as you will be needing a new helmet- 10 % discount off any spares you want as you are a mate of Dougs. He also got a good price on the bike.

Good shops are hard to find, and it is the people in that shop that make it.They rely on customers and they have not only gained one with my friend- His wife is up for a new bike and his kids are growing fast so will need several in the next few years. If they had not treated him right- he would have gone elsewhere.

Sorry to hear about your problems and hope it gets resolved.

[Digital Gee]

Dnvr,

Anytime you want the 50+ crowd to mount an email campaign to "educate" these young whippersnappers about what a good LBS is all about, just holler.

[maddmaxx]

I will and do travel farther to get to a not so LBS to vote with my wallet. I also started a campaign a few years ago to teach myself to repair or build everything on the bike. I can now handle just about any job short of frame welding or major frame straighening. In addition I do not yet own the tools to tap or face the bottom brackets or to face the head tube.
I would advise all to learn to perform some of the easier repairs yourself. At the very least learn to properly adjust your derailleurs and shifters and brakes. You will then be in a better position out on the trail/road to understand what is happening or not on your bike. Then if you have to you can better communicate the findings to your mechanic.

[Tom Bombadil]

The LBS that is just 2 blocks from my office has a guy who has worked there for something like 30 years. He's in his 60s now. It is usually him and a couple of 20-somethings that work on bikes.

The closest LBS to my house is about 7 miles away. It is staffed by the same two guys who opened the shop about 20 years ago. Both look to be in their late 40's. Both committed to high level customer service and very easy to work with. They take a lot of pride in their store and work.

[oilman_15106]

Dnvr,

Anytime you want the 50+ crowd to mount an email campaign to "educate" these young whippersnappers about what a good LBS is all about, just holler.

Unfortunatly from other discussions on this subject, I think tilting at windmills might be more successful. Many have had one bad or so so experience with an LBS and feel they should all go out of business. With the internet(would we be talking here without it) sellers discounting parts they think they are getting screwed in some grand way by the LBS who is just trying to make a living.

[CrossChain]

LBS's, except the grand olde shops that have been around for years and are like temples to cycling and can actually employ "real" people to staff them, not just 19 year olds......are often on the level of a mom and pop grocery. They run on a shoestring, can't afford "real" staff, have necessarily limited inventory, etc. Or, they're like a self-serve supermarket with lots of spotlights on shiny new merchandise, etc...but try to find a square taper bottom bracket or quality threaded headset or etc.

Just the world of small businesses....we need to control our expectations, value the rare find, and be cautious.

[BSLeVan]

Dnvr,

Anytime you want the 50+ crowd to mount an email campaign to "educate" these young whippersnappers about what a good LBS is all about, just holler.


A variation of this is an option to consider. In Montgomery County, PA - where I live - a recent study was done of those over age 55. This study shows the relative wealth, disposable income, etc. by age group. And to no one's surprise it shows that the 55+ group controls the vast majority of wealth and the highest level of disposable income. The neat thing about the study is that it also describes what we 50+ folks are looking for in terms of service and places to spend our money. I've mentioned this study to two different LBS owners as something they might want to look at in order to tap into an this group more deliberately. One of the LBS owners showed some real interest and was totally unaware of the number of 55+ folks who lead a very active life stye. This owner was under the impression that the target market for road bikes was the 20 - 40 group and for mountain bikes the 15 - 30 group. They now have several monthly rides, events, specials, etc. that are aimed more at the 50+ group than they did before.

DnvrFox: It might be worth while putting together a brief one-page fact sheet describing the advantages of the "older" market, along with the advantages of paying attention to the local riding clubs and less visible culture. With that said, it also sounds like you lost a fellow kindred bike lover with Hans leaving. I too mourn the loss of such contacts. It seems the older I get, the more frequently this happens. So, now it's time to help mentor the young ones into the ways of the experienced cyclists.

[DnvrFox]

I emailed my original post to the main company (it is a 3 store shop). I am curious to see if they respond.

[BSLeVan]

Maybe because it's Friday, and I'm a bit worn down from a very demanding work week... But, I'm daydreaming that several (or many) 50+ forum folks get together and form a co-op bike store chain (not disimiliar to REI) that has customer service and an interest in all manner of 2 wheeled non-motorized cycling. Think we could get it right?

[Monoborracho]

I got more serious about biking about the same time I moved to my present location. No bike shop within 60 miles. This forced me to do as much as possible myself. Still don't do bottom brackets but am about to try.

Have recently upgraded one MBT to XT/LX nine speed from seven. (yeah, yeah, I need to post some pictures) I've twice goofed the narrow 9speed chain. My boy at college went by a bike shop near university and sent me six more chain pins. I could even order another chain and try again cheaper than I can drive to the closest LBS for help. Tools are not that expensive relative to gasoline and trip time for me.

And of course, the closest LBS doesn't want to talk...they just want to sell me a new bike. So I am beginning to favor the not-so-close LBS...90 miles away. They know me there, and they don't mind working on a 1995 Schwinn.

[DnvrFox]

Maybe because it's Friday, and I'm a bit worn down from a very demanding work week... But, I'm daydreaming that several (or many) 50+ forum folks get together and form a co-op bike store chain (not disimiliar to REI) that has customer service and an interest in all manner of 2 wheeled non-motorized cycling. Think we could get it right?

There is an old saying,

"How do you make a million dollars running a bicycle shop?"

The answer being, of course,

"Start with 2 million dollars."

No thanks!:D

[Monoborracho]

There is an old saying,

"How do you make a million dollars running a bicycle shop?"

The answer being, of course,

"Start with 2 million dollars."

No thanks!:D

No Denver, that phrase was coined for the oil business, contrary to some popular opinion.

[DnvrFox]

No Denver, that phrase was coined for the oil business, contrary to some popular opinion.

Oh?

Profit Soars at Exxon Mobil (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/28/AR2005072802085.html)
Surging Oil Prices Lead to Company's Best Second Quarter

By Joe Carroll
Bloomberg News
Friday, July 29, 2005; Page D02

Exxon Mobil Corp., the world's largest publicly traded oil company, said yesterday that second-quarter profit rose 32 percent, to $7.64 billion, as Asia and North America used more crude oil and gasoline.

[will dehne]

Many have had one bad or so so experience with an LBS and feel they should all go out of business. With the internet(would we be talking here without it) sellers discounting parts they think they are getting screwed in some grand way by the LBS who is just trying to make a living.

I have very mixed experience with many LBS.
My Tandem got re-conditioned big time with new brake mechanism and new gear shift mechanism. Great job and not cheap. (over $1000.-) Ditto with road bikes.
I know of bikers who cannot adjust anything because they never learned about nuts, bolts and screws.
These people want the LBS to fine-tune their bike but cannot communicate what they want. OTOH, the LBS must pay their people by the hour even if there is nothing to do.
Next, I know bikers who know everything about their bikes and I have seen them micro-manage the LBS employees with no consideration of the cost per hour.
My experience is governed by biking on trails and park roads. Relatively little goes wrong. I can go for a year without a flat and have to learn again the fine points of that. Saddle adjustment and cable adjustment I have learned to do. Annual re-condition fee is set by the LBS and seems good enough.
I suspect that the serious bike racers are looking for service better than that and that may be the problem.
Bottom line of this post? I think it is a tough business to cover all cost of doing that business.

[Monoborracho]

Will...I agree with you about how tough it is to make an LBS go. Further to that (and Denver, this could go for the oil business also)....

.........IF IT WAS EASY, EVERYONE WOULD BE IN THAT BUSINESS....

I have never seen a business in which it was easy to make money. It's like arbitrage....the opportunity disappears as soon as enough people spot it.

[bkaapcke]

Part of the answer to this problem is learning to do your own wrenching. Most parts can be had online and there are plenty of good 'how to' books on bike repair and maintenance out there. It saves enough money to pay for the tools, and after a while, you become a good wrench. BTW, Bikes are not that complicated. bk

[John E]

Fortunately, I am in a rare win-win situation -- I do over 99% of my own work, and I have a superb LBS about a mile from home and four other very decent shops within a 6-mile radius. (This is particularly remarkable because a third of a 6-mile circle around my house would be in the Pacific Ocean.) The only dark cloud is Fred's (yes, that's really his name) ongoing musings about retiring and moving to the U.K., near his wife's birthplace, but it hasn't happened yet.

[John E]

If you guys think you have problems with local bike shops, read a few online discussion forums in which VW owners complain about their automobile dealerships' service departments. (How about regular mineral oil in a hot-running, small-sump turbocharged engine which absolutely requires synthetic?) Fortunately, the VW dealership nearest to my home is evidently one of the best, but the horror stories are out there.

[Beverly]

My LBS may be in trouble. Bike shops are closing left right and centre- but hopefully- my LBS will be the one to survive.

There are no big LBS in my area and only a few smaller ones. The owner of my LBS is about my age but I don't think there will be any problem when he retires as his son has joined him in the business. You always worry when a new wrench works on your bike but I knew Dad had confidence in him when he let the son setup the new Madone for me.

I feel I've been very fortunate in finding a good LBS and I do everything I can to support them. They were a fantastic help in my purchase of the new bike. The owner let me borrow his wife's Pilot 5.0 for a couple days then took a new bike with the same geometry of the Madone off the showroom floor and set it up for me to ride for a couple days before I settled on buying the Madone.

I come in contact with a lot of new riders on the Saturday morning ride for the local parks. When anyone asks about a bike shop I always recommend my LBS. I know from past experience they're excellent when it comes to working with new riders.

[ollo_ollo]

My town of Olympia has several good bike shops within 5 miles of my home. They have excellent service departments with a good parts supply. One of them is run by a great frame builder with an outstanding service department. They know me & treat me right. There are enough classic & vintage owners (who don't do their own work) in this area to make every visit interesting(I always check out the row of bikes waiting for service, its like visiting a bike museum sometimes).

Unfortunately, we will soon be moving to the area of Stayton/Sublimity, Oregon. The closest bike shops are in Salem, about 15-20 miles away which will be a difficult adjustment for me. No more quick rides down to the shop to pick up a part or ask a question.

[Tom Bombadil]

Most VW owners get to know their local repair shops very well.

VW has ranked in the top 3 for most repairs in each of the last 15 years.

[Louis]

I also do my own mechanical work, and the bikes of friends and family as well.

I miss hanging around a shop but the LBS near here does not radiate that kind of vibe. The shop I used to hang out at closed when the owner retired five years ago.

[DnvrFox]

Email received back:

From: Gene Hodges
To: 'treads'
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 2:13 PM
Subject: RE: I recently posted this in my bicycle news group.


To our loyal customer,

I’m very sorry for your experience recently at our Parker store, that certainly is not the kind of service I want at my stores. But to explain things unfortunately Catie has retired (who never was the owner) and her husband Hans has taken a job in his field of expertise, with an environmental consulting firm. I greatly miss what Hans brought to the store, and I am in the process of rebuilding the staff. But to assure you Treads is still under the same ownership and philosophy as it has been. I’m a little surprised at the problem with your repair as my new service manager is better than the person I had last summer. However, I will pass your email on to the store manager, Steve, and address these issues. Steve by the way has as much bicycle fit expertise as Hans, however, his style is a little different.



Thank you so much for your feed back, as it really helps me to manage what is happening in my stores. Once again sorry your experience was less than satisfactory. And thank you for the second chance.



Gene Hodges, Owner

[DnvrFox]

And I responded:

Thank you for your response.

I have posted it on the Bikeforums.net 50+ group.

I would like an opportunity to meet and discuss my "bicycling" needs with your manager at some time in the future.

In regards to the bearing repair, that actually happened just shortly after you moved into the new location. Jason had left, and there was some turnover, or so it seemed!

I never was clear about who owned the store or not. I know at one time Catie introduced me to her brother, who I thought was in ownership or management, and I had the idea that Catie was in partnership with her brothers, or that she had owned the store or something prior to it becoming Treads.

By the way, I bought my first "road" bike from Englewood Bicycle Store [now a Treads], and had a good relationship there with the owner, Robert? who I guess has now also retired.

FYI, a good friend of mine, Sally, who is a 70 years old Triathlete, and is a member of our bicycle group, also had some service/repair problems at the Treads store, as did a couple of other folks in our group, at about the time of the change to the new store.

There are a lot of folks in this area who are "baby-boomer" status or older who are looking to establish a relationship with a "personal needs" bicycle store. It is always a nice feeling when one is recognized when he/she enters a store.

[John E]

... There are a lot of folks in this area who are "baby-boomer" status or older who are looking to establish a relationship with a "personal needs" bicycle store. Bingo! THAT is the real value only a small LBS can provide.

It is always a nice feeling when one is recognized when he/she enters a store. ... or a doctor's office ...

[crtreedude]

I would really prefer that a doctor doesn't recognize me when I come into the office... I would think that would mean I am having to visit too often if you know what I mean.

[centexwoody]

There is an old saying,

"How do you make a million dollars running a bicycle shop?"

The answer being, of course,

"Start with 2 million dollars."

No thanks!:D

A variation from a former student who farmed in South Dakota, loved it but couldn't make any money from it:

"What would you do if someone gave you a million dollars?"

"I'd farm until it was all gone..."

[DnvrFox]

And another response:

Thank you for getting back to me. Yes you can meet with Steve, call him at the store (303-690-2900) and set up a time to meet. He did review your email and I have spoken to him about the situation. Knowing that the bearing problem happened just after our move does help me to understand. Jason gave his notice to me the week we moved to the new store. This really played havoc on my staff in Parker, especially with the chaos of the move. Hans stepped in as a temporary service manager until we put someone else in place, unfortunately the person we put in the service manager did not live up to my expectations for that position and so I have now replaced him with someone I think is doing even a better job than Jason did. I have confidence that Mike the new service manager will do an excellent job.



As for ownership, Treads purchased both Destination’s Cyclery (Parker) and Englewood Bicycle Co. in 2002. Scott, Catie’s brother, owned Destinations and became a minor partner in Treads, but that did not last and he no longer has any ownership but does still manage the Englewood store. Englewood was purchased from Robert, he has not been involved since the transition period ended in 2002. I have tremendous respect for both Scott and Robert as they built fine businesses before they became Treads, and I make every effort to continue the tradition of excellent customer service that all three of the stores were built on. So that is brief history of the ownership for the stores.



By the way I still have not gotten your name. And once again thanks for your patience, I am committed to building even a better staff in Parker than I had before.

Gene
----------------------------------------------------------------------

And my final response:

OK, I will meet with your manager someday when I can ride over - it is a total of about 3.5 miles, just a little jaunt!

My name is Denver Fox. I am 67 yo, and I lead weekly rides for our senior group at Parker United Methodist Church. We have about 15 riders, although most rides have about 8-10 folks on them at one time. These are easy rides - 10 - 30 miles, and most of our folks are in their 60's and 70's. We ride around Parker, Waterton Canyon, the South Platte Trail, Cherry Creek Reservoir STate Park and the like.

I ride about 4,000 miles per year on a Lemond BA, a Windsor Leeds, and Specialized HR and an old Diamond Back on the trainer in my basement. I live in Parker, near Jordan and Lincoln.

Can we get a "club discount?"

You can see me here (if you so desire!) riding a !!mtn bike!! on the RTR - a long story - next year I bought the Lemond from Robert. http://members.aol.com/dnvrfox/fambicy.htm

I also moderate an indoor bicycle trainer group (237 members) and started and am quite active on the 50+ forum of BikeForums.net. Here is our Rogue's Gallery, which I started and maintain: http://members.aol.com/bfn50gallery/

Thanks for all your responses. Makes me feel better.
================================================================

And thus it endeth!

[Artkansas]

I'm lucky to be within walking distance of two good LBSs. Even better that one is on my route to work!