Living Car Free - gas should go up

Requiring a DRIVER'S LICENSE to operate any motor vehicle would be a big plus, face it what we have in this country is little more than a form of ID. People take a short course in driving, then go and take a fairly simple written test and bingo they are a driver. IIRC in Europe the standard is much higher, you have to prove you understand the way a car operates, as well as prove you can actually operate one correctly. To include basic knowledge of the way it operates and why, and be able to change a tire, etc. I also think retesting should be required periodically, especially if you have multiple moving violations. The last driving test I took was over 30 years ago, last written test 24 years ago....

Aaron:)

+1; a CDL for every motorist. That would put about a quarter of the vehicles in the garage permanently, and nearly all the JAMs. It doesn't take many incidents to lose one's CDL--sometimes permanently, and last time I was driving it cost hundreds of dollars just to get one.

The only problem with the price of gas going up is....

eventually the price of pie will go up too.

We can't have that. :DTo encourage people to bike, the government will convert old gas station mini-marts into subsidized pie refueling stations.

Gas for your car is only 10% of the problem.

I have long contended that the price of gas needed to be adjusted upward by taxing the crap out of it. Then use the taxes to redevelop mass transit and subsidize rail. And while they are at it, raise the cost and standards for getting a drivers license, might take some of the brain dead idiots off the roads. Also tax vehicles more reasonably on their use patterns. Heavy trucks destroy the roadways but only pay a small fraction of the costs.

Aaron:)

but that would ruin the point of a representative democracy. Since in theory congressman should represent their districts and almost EVERY district including the urban ones wouldn't support that the congressmen would be ensuring their political death. Plus governors/president would have to not veto the bill...

but that would ruin the point of a representative democracy. Since in theory congressman should represent their districts and almost EVERY district including the urban ones wouldn't support that the congressmen would be ensuring their political death. Plus governors/president would have to not veto the bill...

And we are being represented NOW?:eek: I look at what is going on DC and my state capitol and the only thing that comes to mind is WTF:mad: The US economy is in the crapper and someone (probably the Chinese) are getting ready to flush. The rich are getting richer, the poor are getting less, the middle class is getting the crap taxed out of it (and most of those taxes are hidden BTW) we a subsidizing anything and everything via special interest, lobbyists, and pork barrel spending. And it crosses all party lines. We have so many special interest groups, study groups, special commissions, investigative panels and the like that the goverment can't seem to do anything. From what I have seen is that the bulk of politicians tell you what you want to hear to get elected, then when they get to where ever it is they are going it is time to party and line their pockets. I have fallen back on my backup voting plan, unless someone has done an outstanding job, I am voting for the guy that isn't in office and has never held that office. I abhor professional politicians. Personally I think they should make the House a lottery and every tax paying citizen of legal age should have their name placed in the hat, your name gets drawn, you go and serve 4 years and never have to serve again. Put an end to the lifetime politicians. And get some free thinkers in there.

As an example of extreme short sightedness...the state capitol of NC; Raleigh has been pissing around with the light rail concept for about 7 years, this year they dissolved the commission, in part on the basis of a report from a foundation that is pro automobile, the "study" "identified" 8 key components that need to be worked on to ease congestion in the Triangle area...and not one of them involved mass transit. Yippee just what we need an additional 15,000 motorists on the already clogged roadways in the next 5-7 years, with more hundreds of millions spent on expanding roadways, increased fuel costs are the only way we are going to get people's attention and get them out of the cars and into alternative transport. It is going to happen on of two ways, by raising taxes on fuel, or waiting for the world economy to drive them up. With the taxes at least you will have something to show for it. Also FWIW NC already has the highest fuel taxes in the region and people are whining and want to repeal it....

Aaron:)

+1--what wahoonc wrote; preach it, man!

And this is a problem?:p ;)
People buy entirely too much made in China disposable plastic crap anyway, all it does it create a figment of wealth and clog the landfills. I have some furniture that belonged to my great grandparents...want to guess how much he paid for his "kitchen" table? It is a solid walnut drop leaf that was made in the Amana Colonies back in the 1800's...it cost him almost a month's wages and he was a skilled worker in a iron shop. Imagine someone paying that much for a simple table today.:eek: People today always complain about how much "stuff" costs and will go to great lengths to get the cheapest price they can on anything and everything, hence the Walmart Mentality, the loss of American Manufacturing jobs and the disposable, wasteful society we live in.
One thing that cheap energy has brought this country (and others) is a preponderance of stuff, too much stuff, so much stuff people have to rent storage lockers to keep the stuff in. I don't know what the answer is, but it isn't more stuff!

Aaron:)


Well gosh! They need to buy all that stuff, don't they? What else do you fill a three story McMansion with, when you only really use 4 of the rooms?

We could save amazing amounts of fuel if they would shift non critical freight to rail.

I live in middle of nowhere Mississippi, the only rail we have is an abandoned depot from the civil war. Many places in this country need trucks to get goods.

I have long contended that the price of gas needed to be adjusted upward by taxing the crap out of it. Aaron:)

Just move to England then.

Hands down the stupidest thing I've read all week.

Well...there is some truth to that statement. In England, isn't the current price per gallon of gas (I did the conversion) somewhere around $5 to $6? And isn't %70-%75 percent of that price going towards taxes? I believe in the U.S. roughly %20-%25 percent of the price goes towards taxes.

England, as well as most of europe? also have graduated taxes (which I believe work much like a luxury tax) on the sales of a motor vehicles that have an engine displacement of over 2000cc's? (Thats why you see those really small cars in european countries that you'll never find stateside. It was humourous to me to know that the Ford Escort was actually considered a chi-chi car in Europe.)

I'd really like to see what would happen to gas consumption in the United States if a >2000cc vehicle tax was imposed here.

I live in middle of nowhere Mississippi, the only rail we have is an abandoned depot from the civil war. Many places in this country need trucks to get goods.

Rail can be reactivated and should be!

Aaron:)

Well...there is some truth to that statement. In England, isn't the current price per gallon of gas (I did the conversion) somewhere around $5 to $6? And isn't %70-%75 percent of that price going towards taxes? I believe in the U.S. roughly %20-%25 percent of the price goes towards taxes.

England, as well as most of europe? also have graduated taxes (which I believe work much like a luxury tax) on the sales of a motor vehicles that have an engine displacement of over 2000cc's? (Thats why you see those really small cars in european countries that you'll never find stateside. It was humourous to me to know that the Ford Escort was actually considered a chi-chi car in Europe.)

I'd really like to see what would happen to gas consumption in the United States if a >2000cc vehicle tax was imposed here.
That is pretty close on the tax rates. National average tax on a gallon of gasoline is 62 cents. But we pay even more in hidden costs like subsidies to the oil companies (regardless of how much gas you use or don't as the case may be) which I am sure are not passed on to the consumer as savings in the cost of fuel. Then you have the cost of maintaining the infrastructure. There is a big stink in NC right now, the fuel tax was supposedly put in a special fund for highway construction and repair. However the legislators have been raiding the fund for years to make up for budget shortfalls in other areas and now when the need road construction money they don't have any and have to have bond issues and try and get money from somewhere else, while the roads fall into disrepair and bridges fail...ain't it fun!:p If we paid taxes anywhere close to what the Europeans do we could fund mass transit for the people that really need, fund alternative transportation initiatives like cycle paths, bicycle freeways, pedestrian bridges at dangerous road crossings, etc, etc.

Aaron:)

Rail can be reactivated and should be!

Aaron:)
True. Most of the old road beds are still there. many of them are bike trails now of course. It wouldn't be too hard to kick the bikes off and rebuild the rails. We probably wouldn't mind riding on the roads if there were a lot fewer trucks to contend with!

True. Most of the old road beds are still there. many of them are bike trails now of course. It wouldn't be too hard to kick the bikes off and rebuild the rails. We probably wouldn't mind riding on the roads if there were a lot fewer trucks to contend with!

The Rails to Trails in my town is actually in the Federal Landbank of railroad right of ways for future light rail use. However given our location I don't foresee that happening in the near future. So it runs from the center of our little town to the center of a smaller town. It is quicker to ride up the road, but the trail is great for kids and walking.

Aaron:)

The Rails to Trails in my town is actually in the Federal Landbank of railroad right of ways for future light rail use. However given our location I don't foresee that happening in the near future. So it runs from the center of our little town to the center of a smaller town. It is quicker to ride up the road, but the trail is great for kids and walking.

Aaron:)
Yeah these trails are rarely useful for utility cyclng. They're strictly recreational, not that that's a bad thing. They even call the "linear parks" in a lot of places.

I doubt higher gas prices = more cyclists. If anything, there'll be more motorcycles & scooters around.

I doubt higher gas prices = more cyclists. If anything, there'll be more motorcycles & scooters around.

The problem with motorcycles, some of them have huge engines in them, and similar really sucky gas mileage as well. You need to be into 650cc and smaller, before the engine is small enough to really make a big difference. Scooters will become more popular, engines there tend to go from 50cc to 250cc, and gas mileage can be as good as 168MPG.

Of course, who says that gas prices would stay where 168MPG would be reasonable, in the 1960's they thought $1/Gallon would never come, in fact they were so sure, that gas pumps only went up to a price of 99.9 cents, yesterday I saw $1.085 per Litre (thats $4.123/US Gallon:eek:) Higher fuel prices also hurt the economy, in that people will need to decide, can I eat out, maybe go to a movie, or buy gas for the car. Not everyone can go out and buy a smaller car, however scooters are relatively cheap, and even the moped might see a return to fame....

You might also see more, crossover riders, people who bicycle shorter distances and motorcycle longer ones.

^^ Sheepishly, I have to admit I've seen more cyclist on my morning route. (I am an uber skeptic) It used to be me and two other guys going down the major road of town. Now it's me and about 8 people. I'm happy about that.

But even a 1,000cc motor will save more gas than your average subcompact car. Only problem is that it doesn't carry as many passengers as a tiny car like the Honda Fit.

But even a 1,000cc motor will save more gas than your average subcompact car. Only problem is that it doesn't carry as many passengers as a tiny car like the Honda Fit.

I had a Suzuki Forsa at one point, it's a small car which was equipped with a 3 cylinder 1000cc engine, this was around 1987, there have been others makes and models to use this engine size. The Citroen 2CV was outfitted with several engines over its long lifespan ranging from 375cc to 602cc. The real issue is, that while such cars are popular everywhere else, in the US, everyone has a need to drive a 5000lb SUV with a 7L engine in it. Look at the cars, I purchased over the years, 1984 Hyundai Pony (1400cc), 1989 Pontiac Firefly (rebadged Suzuki Forsa - 1000cc), 1992 Chevrolet Cavalier (2200cc), 2002 Kia Sephia (1600cc). Right now I drive my late father-in-laws Chrysler Intrepid, which is going to need to retire soon, because the gas mileage on this old hunk of junk really sucks. Debating about it's replacement, probably an older, but small car..... Car free isn't practical for my other half at the moment.....

Scooters will become more popular, engines there tend to go from 50cc to 250cc, and gas mileage can be as good as 168MPG.

Other possibilities:

http://tinyurl.com/26osgg

I had a Suzuki Forsa at one point, it's a small car which was equipped with a 3 cylinder 1000cc engine, this was around 1987, there have been others makes and models to use this engine size. The Citroen 2CV was outfitted with several engines over its long lifespan ranging from 375cc to 602cc. The real issue is, that while such cars are popular everywhere else, in the US, everyone has a need to drive a 5000lb SUV with a 7L engine in it. Look at the cars, I purchased over the years, 1984 Hyundai Pony (1400cc), 1989 Pontiac Firefly (rebadged Suzuki Forsa - 1000cc), 1992 Chevrolet Cavalier (2200cc), 2002 Kia Sephia (1600cc). Right now I drive my late father-in-laws Chrysler Intrepid, which is going to need to retire soon, because the gas mileage on this old hunk of junk really sucks. Debating about it's replacement, probably an older, but small car..... Car free isn't practical for my other half at the moment.....
yeah i had a geo metro with 1000cc and 3 cylinders. good mileage, put 146,000 km on in 18 months.

yeah i had a geo metro with 1000cc and 3 cylinders. good mileage, put 146,000 km on in 18 months.

My favorite high mileage car was my 1978 Honda Civic 1200 IIRC it got 40+ at 55-60mph. It finally died in the mid 90's with over 200k miles on it. Could not get a replacement engine for it so of to the scrappers it went. Great little car no relation to the pig the Civic has become today.

Aaron:)