Calcium, bones, teeth and long distance cycling

[Machka]

Do any of you know of any articles on calcium, bones, teeth and long distance cycling? If they are online articles, could you send a link? Thanks. :)

[Carbonfiberboy]

Here ya go. Fear this:
http://www.afpafitness.com/articles/Boneloss.htm

FWIW, I take 500mg calcium w/250 mg magnesium twice/day and one more after a 3-4 hr. ride. Prevents cramps, that's for sure. I also take Endurolytes during a ride.

[Machka]

I also take calcium supplements (although not on a regular daily basis) ... probably about half the days of any given month.

Plus I walk, run, and weightlift quite regularly.

I know most of the focus of a lack of calcium and weight-bearing exercises is osteoporosis, but what about other issues .... like the condition of our teeth.

Over the past 3-4 years (pretty much my heaviest years of randonneuring, so far) my teeth have been dying. I grind my teeth, so the dentists have blamed that, but I have begun to wonder about calcium deficiency. And if my teeth are dying because of calcium deficiency ... what sort of condition are my bones in??

Are there more articles about these sorts of things out there? What about experiences of other long distance cyclists who have been in the ultra-distance world for a while?

[LWaB]

I know a couple of friends who have quit brevet riding due to excessive bone loss (doctors suggested riding was making things worse). Chris Boardman retired as a pro partially because of excessive bone loss AFAIK. A small sample though.

[NoRacer]

Googled - Keywords = osteoporosis cycling bicycling (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=osteoporosis+cycling+bicycling&btnG=Google+Search)

[sch]

I thought it was interesting to see the referral to phosphate containing
soft drinks as contributors to bone loss. That light went off independently
for me about 6-8yrs ago and I switched to lite citrus drinks. My
consumption varies from 12 to 36oz depending on time of yr daily.

[NoRacer]

There's this link about sports drinks and dental erosion:

http://www.velonews.com/train/articles/9492.0.html

Haven't found anything about endurance cycling and dental erosion.

[Carbonfiberboy]

I was having a heck of a time with my teeth and dental bills until I stopped putting Cytomax in my Camelbak and switched to a highly concentrated maltodextrin drink with plain water after system. Bingo - no more cavities.

IMO, females should supplement calcium and magnesium at a rate of 1500/750 per day in addition to Endurolytes taken during the ride. That's every day! And and this is a big and, only use calcium citrate, no other. With some other calcium formulations, I've seen deposits in and near the joints. This seems to vary with the brand. Some do and some don't. I have no idea why. But now I stay away from calcium carbonate formulations. The deposits go away quickly with a change in supplement.

Here's a test that showed that calcium loss can be prevented by maintaining an oral calcium load:
http://www.ihop-net.org/UniPub/iHOP/pm/10417858.html?pmid=14735261

[Hermes]

I also take calcium supplements (although not on a regular daily basis) ... probably about half the days of any given month.

And if my teeth are dying because of calcium deficiency ... what sort of condition are my bones in??


Not a long distance cyclist (although I am doing a century tomorrow) but...I use Prevident flouride treatment 1.1% sodium fluoride and take 1000 mg of Calcium and 400 mg of magnesium every day. Just had a physical and my doc, who is a cyclist, told me about the Ca/Mg and the potential problems with osteoporosis and cycling. The ratio is important of 1000/400. He claims that it also assists performance...we will see about that one!

[tbdean]

Here's some articles:

http://www.beezodogsplace.com/Pages/Articles/Osteoporosis-Cycling/Osteoporosis-Cycling.html

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/287/23/3127

I take Caltrate twice a day + One-A-Day Men's once a day. I don't consider myself a long-distance cyclist, although like Hermes I'm doing a Century next weekend. But my mother has Osteoporosis so with that and cycling I have a double whammy.

[Carbonfiberboy]

Oh and duh. Get a bone density scan. Why worry needlessly?

[Machka]

Oh and duh. Get a bone density scan. Why worry needlessly?

I'm seeing my Dr in a couple weeks, and I will ask her about that.

[Machka]

I was having a heck of a time with my teeth and dental bills until I stopped putting Cytomax in my Camelbak and switched to a highly concentrated maltodextrin drink with plain water after system. Bingo - no more cavities.

About 1.5 years ago, I switched from Gatorade, Powerade, Cytomax, and all those simple sugar drinks to HEED and pure orange juice on my brevets. Before the switch I developed horrible mouth sores during my rides of 600K and more, and occasionally even on shorter rides ... not to mention that horrible fuzzy feeling all over my teeth and mouth. After the switch ..... no more mouth sores!! And no more fuzzy feeling.



IMO, females should supplement calcium and magnesium at a rate of 1500/750 per day in addition to Endurolytes taken during the ride. That's every day! And and this is a big and, only use calcium citrate, no other. With some other calcium formulations, I've seen deposits in and near the joints. This seems to vary with the brand. Some do and some don't. I have no idea why. But now I stay away from calcium carbonate formulations. The deposits go away quickly with a change in supplement.

Here's a test that showed that calcium loss can be prevented by maintaining an oral calcium load:
http://www.ihop-net.org/UniPub/iHOP/pm/10417858.html?pmid=14735261

Interesting ... calcium carbonate is the main one I use.

[Losligato]

You might consider substituting tofu for some of the meat in your diet. Tofu is made using a form of calcium and is therefore chock full of the stuff.

Meat (some argue, and I believe) is difficult to digest. Your body uses lots of acid in the upper stomach to digest it then leaches calcium from your system to bring the ph back to normal in the lower.

A little tofu might make a big difference. Amanda had a bone density test done a few months before we left home and they said she had the bones of an 18 year old at 42. Not bad.

[Carbonfiberboy]

Interesting ... calcium carbonate is the main one I use.It's OK if it doesn't bother you, no deposits, etc. Some do, some don't. I don't know why. Here's a link that seems to me to have a sensible view of the subject:
http://courses.washington.edu/bonephys/opcalcium.html

Note that when scientific sources like this refer to quantities of calcium they are referring to elemental calcium. The label on the side of the pill bottle will give the quantity of the calcium compound, not elemental calcium.

http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/calcium.asp
"The two main forms of calcium found in supplements are carbonate and citrate. Calcium carbonate is the most common because it is inexpensive and convenient. The absorption of calcium citrate is similar to calcium carbonate. For instance, a calcium carbonate supplement contains 40% calcium while a calcium citrate supplement only contains 21% calcium. However, you have to take more pills of calcium citrate to get the same amount of calcium as you would get from a calcium carbonate pill since citrate is a larger molecule than carbonate. One advantage of calcium citrate over calcium carbonate is better absorption in those individuals who have decreased stomach acid."

[ollo_ollo]

Bicycling magazine had an article on bone loss a few years ago which spurred me to talk my Dr. into a referral for a bone density scan despite his poo pooing the necessity. The scan revealed I already had osteoporosis in my hips & lower spine. I am mid 60s & had been taking calcium supplements for years. Dr. prescribed Fossamax, but I didn't care for the side effects & switched over to Strontium supplements with good results. Only downer to Strontium is its affinity for Calcium which means you need to take the two supplements at different times. (I take the Strontium at bed time & Calcium mid day) edit: I took Calcium Carbonate years ago but it has a constipating side effect so I changed to Calcium Citrate

[Bacciagalupe]

Over the past 3-4 years (pretty much my heaviest years of randonneuring, so far) my teeth have been dying. I grind my teeth, so the dentists have blamed that, but I have begun to wonder about calcium deficiency. And if my teeth are dying because of calcium deficiency ... what sort of condition are my bones in??
Your dentist should be capable of distinguishing between tooth decay and grinding down of your teeth. You should have them clearly explain to you why they are making this diagnosis, especially since I assume you are telling them how much of these fluids you are drinking.

Also, Velonews had an article on cycling and osteoperosis:

http://www.velonews.com/train/articles/5489.0.html

Keep in mind that you can't absorb more than 500mg of calcium in one meal. So taking a 2000mg daily dose of calcium won't solve the issue, in part because you won't absorb most of it, in part because there's a low risk of inducing vitamin toxicity.

You may want to look into fluoride supplements as well.

[goldfishin]

if your teeth aren't healthy from brushing with baking soda and swashing listerine, there's something wrong with them (i'm saying you should try these two things).

calcium citrate is 90% absorbable while carbonate is only 40% absorbable. make sure that you're getting plenty of the other vitamins associate with bone building (such as magnesium).

[Carbonfiberboy]

Bicycling magazine had an article on bone loss a few years ago which spurred me to talk my Dr. into a referral for a bone density scan despite his poo pooing the necessity. The scan revealed I already had osteoporosis in my hips & lower spine. I am mid 60s & had been taking calcium supplements for years. Dr. prescribed Fossamax, but I didn't care for the side effects & switched over to Strontium supplements with good results. Only downer to Strontium is its affinity for Calcium which means you need to take the two supplements at different times. (I take the Strontium at bed time & Calcium mid day) edit: I took Calcium Carbonate years ago but it has a constipating side effect so I changed to Calcium CitrateAre you male or female, if you don't mind my asking? Makes a difference. What's your cycling history? What were the side effects of Fossamax? My dottie mother takes that, but that's probably not why she's dottie.

My dentist tells all his patients that they grind their teeth. I think he's just trying to get you to cover part of the fender on his new Mercedes. ("You need a night guard.")

[Machka]

Your dentist should be capable of distinguishing between tooth decay and grinding down of your teeth. You should have them clearly explain to you why they are making this diagnosis, especially since I assume you are telling them how much of these fluids you are drinking.



I have both situations (tooth decay and grinding down) as well as some other problems. I've just been to the dentist and received a rather horrifying diagnosis.

And what fluids are you talking about?



I'm well aware of the 500 mg limit on calcium, which is why I take some in the morning, and some in the evening, and sometimes some in the middle of the day. I NEVER take a full 2000 mg all at once!!

[late]

When we were researching calcium; we also found that the cheap calcium
pills were less desirable. My wife takes a product called Bones for Life.
I think any of the better ones would be fine.

I do keep a bottle of cheap calcium tho.. She occasionally drinks a soda, and if I remember I tell her to take a cheap calcium to give the phosphorus something
to attack.

[Kimber]

Very interesting discussion. The only thing I would point out is that the first article cited, was discussing bone mass loss in Tour de France cyclists. Not knowing what other drugs or supplements they may be on makes that comparison chancy at best IMHO.

[late]

Very interesting discussion. The only thing I would point out is that the first article cited, was discussing bone mass loss in Tour de France cyclists. Not knowing what other drugs or supplements they may be on makes that comparison chancy at best IMHO.

It's not just pros. Because cycling is not a weight bearing exercise, the bones
do not get stressed; as they should be.

[Richard Cranium]

Women suffer bone loss through different mechanisms than men. There isn't much you can do about loss of bone density. Supplementation is a stop-gap, and does not fully restore bone density.

The best scenario is to build healthier bones while young, and begin appropriate stop-gap measures as an adult.

[Bacciagalupe]

I have both situations (tooth decay and grinding down) as well as some other problems. I've just been to the dentist and received a rather horrifying diagnosis.

And what fluids are you talking about?
Any fluids with carbs.

"Tooth decay occurs when your teeth are frequently exposed to foods containing carbohydrates (starches and sugars) like soda pop, candy, ice cream, milk, cakes, and even fruits, vegetables and juices." ( http://www.agd.org/consumer/topics/decay/main.asp ) I.e. it's not just sugar, it's any fluids with lots of carbs.

I really cannot imagine that anyone in this forum is qualified to give you proper medical advice -- or if they are, usually they're smart enough not to diagnose a patient they've never seen (e.g. Dr Pete). If you are already taking calcium supplements, brush your teeth frequently and are still experiencing major dental issues, you really need to pursue this with your dentist and/or sports medicine specialist.

[Machka]

Any fluids with carbs.

"Tooth decay occurs when your teeth are frequently exposed to foods containing carbohydrates (starches and sugars) like soda pop, candy, ice cream, milk, cakes, and even fruits, vegetables and juices." ( http://www.agd.org/consumer/topics/decay/main.asp ) I.e. it's not just sugar, it's any fluids with lots of carbs.

I really cannot imagine that anyone in this forum is qualified to give you proper medical advice -- or if they are, usually they're smart enough not to diagnose a patient they've never seen (e.g. Dr Pete). If you are already taking calcium supplements, brush your teeth frequently and are still experiencing major dental issues, you really need to pursue this with your dentist and/or sports medicine specialist.

Well, I guess it is a good thing I don't consume a lot of fluids with carbs then!! :)

And I'm NOT looking for medical advice, believe me, I've got enough of that!! This is more of an "awareness" thread for long distance cyclists. Long distance cyclists have a greater chance of developing osteoporosis than shorter distance cyclists or people who do other forms of exercise, so it is possible that we might also have a greater chance of having dental issues. I just wondered if anyone knew of any articles which might have been written along those lines.

[Sir Lunch-a-lot]

I don't know of an article that supports this, but I do recall my highschool gym teacher talking about running/physical activity in relation to teeth (he was also my bio teacher as well). What he had said was that often runners get dry in the mouth (through breathing through the mouth, and going significant periods of time without added fluids), and this increases the overall acidity of the mucous in your mouth. As a result, a lot of these runners tend to have dental problems in the long term because of this increased acidity. The same thing would apply to cyclists.

Long distance cyclists have a greater chance of developing osteoporosis than shorter distance cyclists or people who do other forms of exercise, so it is possible that we might also have a greater chance of having dental issues. I just wondered if anyone knew of any articles which might have been written along those lines.

I don't know if this is the sort of stuff you want, but I'll add it for those who are interested: Your bones, besides adding rigidity to your body, act as a calcium storage system. Whenever your nerves fire, they use calcium in a chemical reaction. That calcium is taken from the bones. So, if you are biking, then you will have more nervous activity than someone who is sitting around. As a result, it will strip away more calcium from your bones. That's why active people would need to take in more calcium to replenish the calcium deposites in their bones. (As a side note, this is the reason why your bones develop rings like a tree trunk as you age, because calcium is constantly being taken and added).

Just my 2 cents (CDN).

[Richard Cranium]

Here is an article that supports my previous post regarding reestablishment of bone density through supplements -- it doesn't happen..... I can add, the timing of Calcium supplementation and the adequate presence Vitamin D are more important than the source or quantity of Calcium ingested.

Anyone who wants to "play" bone builder, better be taking their calcium during exercise with Vitamin D.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/station/science/subregional_bone.html

[ollo_ollo]

"Are you male or female, if you don't mind my asking? Makes a difference. What's your cycling history? What were the side effects of Fossamax?"

66 year old male, now retired & riding approximately 3,000 miles yearly. Previous to retirement, I bike commuted to work daily & rode 4,000 to 5,000 miles yearly. I began having acid reflux problems while taking Fossamax. Doctor gave me a flyer on osteoporosis that mentions the male-female difference & also that other risk factors are smoking, carbonated drinks, small/slight build, asian descent & "tendency to long life". I am not asian but do have a small frame that shrank from 5' 7 1/2" down to 5' 6" over the years. (edit: i have no dental problems, still have all my teeth) In my teens & early twenties I ran long distance & did 20 mile a day workouts with weightlifting.