CLA and Creatine

[pletcgm]

Would anyone advise taking CLA and Creatine together?

I am taking the CLA and Biotin with every meal to help in losing the last 15 pounds to get to 150 a long with my commuting to work everyday and a balanced meal. I am wanting to start on Creatine also for building more muscle mass in my legs and arms.

My question is, will the CLA counter the Creatine?

Thanks.

[cbhungry]

There's great data and research on creatine but excuse my ignorance....what is CLA?

[pletcgm]

Conjugated Lenoic Acid

[RWTD]

I don't see why it would cause a problem as they are generally found in the same food sources such as meat.

[cbhungry]

RWTD is right, the conjugated linoleic acid is a form of fatty acid and the creatine is a form of amino acid so there should be no problem.

[late]

Hey Cbhungy,
do you have any opinion on creatine? I'm a middleaged guy, I bought a jar of the stuff last year. But I chickened out after using it a couple times.

[cbhungry]

Creatine has extensive and good clinical research in the sports physiology arena of medicine. It is relatively safe with the exception of those with kidney problems. Just be sure you realize most of the benefits are sustained by athletic preformances that require bursts of anarobic activity such as power lifting etc. I don't recollect trials showing much improvement in sports such as long distance running and swimming. Biking is different since it does involve endurance with bursts of speed or anerobic load (sprinting in road racing and hill climbing etc in mountain biking). In addition, the studies were more significant in the lab vs. field studies which were less impressive. Don't know safety data in pregnant women but I don't see why you need to worry. RWTD, correct me if I am wrong.


However, the most serious side effect besides diarrhea, cramping and dehydration in the medical literatures is a devastating case of rhabdomyolysis (sudden muscle breakdown causing kidney failure etc.) assoicated with a body builder. Also keep in mind, short term studies show no obvious deleterious effects but there are no long term studies.
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/405777

[RWTD]

I think there was a French government sponsored smear campaign on it using some data that creatine heated at high temperature can become cargenagenic to led people to believe that using supplemental creatine could be dangerous.What is dangerious is exposing it to high heat such as cooking meat which contains it at high heat.Like cbhungrary said all the other data on it is generally very favorable though it can aggrevate cramping at high doses without adequate water intake.I only use a small 5 gram dose prior to weight training only on days I lift and don't use it at all for cycling.Loading is not really necessary and if you use it regularly it helps to cycle on and off.It is best for anaerobic strength and tends to draw water from outside the muscle inside .

[Vitamin X]

If you are wanting to promote more muscle mass on the bike I suggest using bodybuilding's BIG 4...

Whey Protein
Creatine
Glutamine
Multi-Vit & Mineral.

Let me tell you, If your a cyclist and your not taking Creatine you are at a MASSIVE disadvantage, since its a latic acid buffer. BUT, I wouldn't take a creatine brand which promotes water retention neither. The added weight weight is very unessary and will just make you look very bloated. A creatine brand which I highly recommend is San V12. It doesn't promote water retention but just lean muscle mass.

If your wanting to gain more muscle mass I sugest taking Whey Protein along with your Creatine.

I definately believe guys like Armstrong, Millar etc have there own favourite brands of creatine which work for them. These guys in my opinion take creatine, no doubt about it.

[bac]

Conjugated Lenoic Acid


Mmmmmmmm, conjugated Lenoic Acid .... mmmmmmmm.

[Croak]

However, the most serious side effect besides diarrhea, cramping and dehydration in the medical literatures is a devastating case of rhabdomyolysis (sudden muscle breakdown causing kidney failure etc.) assoicated with a body builder. Also keep in mind, short term studies show no obvious deleterious effects but there are no long term studies.
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/405777

The GI problems associated with creatine use are believed to be either the creatine slowing in the GI tract or impurities in the creatine itself.

To alleviate them, use either Pfanstiehl or Creapure creatine, they are the two brands that test well above the competition in independant lab reports. Also, take the creatine with warm water to reduce GI lag. These two tactics have almost completely combatted the stomach cramp/gastro related problems.

Taking the creatine with a high GI carb (dextrose/maltodextrose) mix will help with absorption. Also, it has been shown r-ALA may help, it's a very good idea anyway (much better dollar for dollar than CLA).

To add, all creatine products promote water retention. That is their primarymeans of increasing performance. Leave SAN products alone. Their labels leave a little to be desired... (they sometimes 'forget' to add things, or use a little poetic license, if you know what I mean).


If you are trying to lose weight, creatine isn't really what you are looking for. Neither is CLA for that matter. Get on to r-ALA to blunt insulin. Then start thinking about acetyl-l-carnitine.

[Vitamin X]

To add, all creatine products promote water retention. That is their primary means of increasing performance. Leave SAN products alone. Their labels leave a little to be desired... (they sometimes 'forget' to add things, or use a little poetic license, if you know what I mean).



Damn Croak, Is San V12 that good???... I to can recall dissing a product on a different board because I knew it worked so well that I didn't want anyone else to use it :D . This is what you can expect from taking V12...


V12 PRODUCT HIGHLIGHTS:

1. Increased Lean Body Mass
2. Dramatic Increase In Strength & Endurance
3. Increased Protein Synthesis
4. Faster Recuperation From Exercise
5. Increased Vascularity
6. Better Nutrient Usage
7. Enhanced Endogenous Creatine Production
8. Stimulates A Positive Nitrogen Balance
9. Zero SUGAR and Carbs
10. GUARANTEED RESULTS!

http://www.affordablesupplements.co.uk/ProductDetail.asp?ProductID=557

The two creatines I highly recommend is San V12 & Creatine HSC Transport System from AST.

Creatine HSC Transport System from AST....

http://www.affordablesupplements.co.uk/ProductDetail.asp?ProductID=10

"How to Pump Over 87% More Muscle Building Creatine into Your Muscles . . . and Bio-Energetically Fuel the Phospho-Creatine Cycle for Sustained and Continual Muscle Growth Over 247% Greater Than Creatine Monohydrate"

If you don't take creatine (A decent brand that is), then more often than not you will probably get dropped even if you train real hard. When I first took the HSC Transport System from AST I went out for 5 hour ride and when I got back home I still didn't have any latic acid build-up in my legs and trust me, I was stomping the pedals pretty hard and riding an old Raliegh well over 23lbs. It felt great. There are two DON'TS. Don't buy any old brand and don't let anyone ever, ever tell you it doesn't work. After all it is a latic acid buffer...

[Vitamin X]

Would anyone advise taking CLA and Creatine together?

Thanks.

Do you know what to take together (Although Illegal)...


AST Dymetadrine Xtreme w/Ephedra (If You can find it) along with Prolab Nutrition Phosphocreatine Power creatine.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/pl/phos.html

Although Illegal, I promise you this combination will have you hitting gears on the hardest hills you thought you could never push. Since I don't ride in no competetions I take everything and anything.

[Croak]

Vitamin X,

These are the compounds listed in SAN V12:

Tricreatine Malate (Tri-Creatine Salt)
N.A.G(N-Acetyl L-Glutamine)
Betaine (Trimethylglycine)
Glycocyamine
NitroArginine(Arginine Alpha-Ketoglutarate)
Taurine

Tricreatine Malate is a salt of creatine which is meant to increase absorption. Incidentally, it is also 4 times cheaper to manufacture and contains up to 50% more creatinine than a monohydrate.

N.A.G. has been proven time and time again to be an inferior delivery system for glutamine. Glutamine peptides are far superior ie. Gplenish.

Taurine is an essentially conditional amino acid. It's benefit is minimal to nothing.

SAN has been exposed on a number of occasions for misleading labels. Most noteably on their Tight product. It stated use of r-ALA, where as it used racemic (which contains trace amounts of the r-isomer) and is 4-5 times cheaper.

A good creatine is about purity. A delivery system should be insulin on the back of some fast acting CHO and maybe some r-ALA or vandyl sulfate. You will get twice the creatine for half the price, buy a pound of dextrose and you may have some spare change for r-ALA.

[Vitamin X]

Vitamin X,

These are the compounds listed in SAN V12:

Tricreatine Malate (Tri-Creatine Salt)
N.A.G(N-Acetyl L-Glutamine)
Betaine (Trimethylglycine)
Glycocyamine
NitroArginine(Arginine Alpha-Ketoglutarate)
Taurine

Tricreatine Malate is a salt of creatine which is meant to increase absorption. Incidentally, it is also 4 times cheaper to manufacture and contains up to 50% more creatinine than a monohydrate.

Taurine is an essentially conditional amino acid. It's benefit is minimal to nothing.




I stay away from Monohydrate based creatines anyway because as Monohydrate suggests, It retains the water inside the muscle and makes you look & feel bloated. Once you come off the Monohydrate, then so do the muscle gains you have made because all the water is flushed out of the muscle. I have found that V12 takes a little longer to see gains but the muscle mass that has been built up stays even after you come off it because it doesn't seem to retain water. Plus it seems to give you a better pump after your workout than Monohydrate based creatines.

Micronized Taurine: is the 2nd most abundant amino acid found in skeletal muscle. Taurine and sulfur are considered to be factors necessary for the control of many biochemical changes that take place in the aging process. It was also found to aid in the clearing of free radical wastes. Micronized Taurine aids the movement of potassium, sodium, calcium and magnesium in and out of cells and thus helps generate nerve impulses. It has cell-volumizing effects and insulin-mimicking properties. It has also been shown to aid in cardiovascular health.

[Croak]

I stay away from Monohydrate based creatines anyway because as Monohydrate suggests, It retains the water inside the muscle and makes you look & feel bloated. Once you come off the Monohydrate, then so do the muscle gains you have made because all the water is flushed out of the muscle. I have found that V12 takes a little longer to see gains but the muscle mass that has been built up stays even after you come off it because it doesn't seem to retain water. Plus it seems to give you a better pump after your workout than Monohydrate based creatines.

Micronized Taurine: is the 2nd most abundant amino acid found in skeletal muscle. Taurine and sulfur are considered to be factors necessary for the control of many biochemical changes that take place in the aging process. It was also found to aid in the clearing of free radical wastes. Micronized Taurine aids the movement of potassium, sodium, calcium and magnesium in and out of cells and thus helps generate nerve impulses. It has cell-volumizing effects and insulin-mimicking properties. It has also been shown to aid in cardiovascular health.

Creatine will always cause cell volumization, no matter what form. The purpose of creatine is to increase your strength artificially, allowing you to generate more microtrauma or gain a competitive edge.

Taurine is still very questionable, and honestly, not worth the money. The only time taurine is valuable is when you deplete your body of it through drug use (some beta-2 agonists such as clenbuterol deplete the body of taurine). You get adequate supplies of taurine if you are eating red meat in your diet.

[Vitamin X]

Creatine will always cause cell volumization, no matter what form. The purpose of creatine is to increase your strength artificially, allowing you to generate more microtrauma or gain a competitive edge.

Taurine is still very questionable, and honestly, not worth the money. The only time taurine is valuable is when you deplete your body of it through drug use (some beta-2 agonists such as clenbuterol deplete the body of taurine). You get adequate supplies of taurine if you are eating red meat in your diet.

I will give you your props Croak, you seem to know what your talking about. Thanks for the info on the Whey Protein thread, I have taken everything you said into account and makes alot of sense, cheers...

[Croak]

I will give you your props Croak, you seem to know what your talking about. Thanks for the info on the Whey Protein thread, I have taken everything you said into account and makes alot of sense, cheers...

Cheers.

I just hate seeing everybody get ripped off by these huge corporations due to misleading advertising. I work in the industry and there are many respectable companies out there, but there are far more dishonest ones unfortunately :(

[Vitamin X]

Cheers.

I just hate seeing everybody get ripped off by these huge corporations due to misleading advertising. I work in the industry and there are many respectable companies out there, but there are far more dishonest ones unfortunately :(

You wouldn't work for Prolab would you, (One of San's biggest competetors in the supplement industry) :D .

[Croak]

You wouldn't work for Prolab would you, (One of San's biggest competetors in the supplement industry) :D .

Nah, I don't work for a supplement company. I am strength and conditioning coach with most experience in diet and nutrition. I am on my way to an MD at the moment.

Most of the large ones that have ads in magazines such as Muscle Media et al. are the dishonest ones I am talking about.

[fietser_ivana]

Heard good things about Jarrow. Anyone here with experience with their products?

Ivana, back on the forum after a long break (am more into WL now than cycling after end of DNFed PBP)

[Richard D]

Heard good things about Jarrow. Anyone here with experience with their products?

Ivana, back on the forum after a long break (am more into WL now than cycling after end of DNFed PBP)

Sorry - no experience of their products, but nice to see you back.

Richard