Classic & Vintage - Vintage Bicycle Quality Guide (for the bike illiterate)

Besides getting some input for myself, I figured I'd post this so you all could copy it if you wanted and give it to your bicycle illiterate friends(aka potential bicycle scouts). It seems like a pretty good way to make it easy for someone to identify a bike as something you'd be interested in, and saves you the trouble of being stuck with a POS. If you wanted to adapt it for personal use, you'd have to factor in price somehow, but the source in question here sells bikes in the range of $1 - $50 with no exceptions, so mine is just based on that. The story goes like this:

I've got a friend who sits at the Goodwill outlet here for hours on end, buying clothing to sell on eBay. They always have a bunch of bikes there, but they usually get snatched up pretty quick, so me riding the 6 miles one-way with my trailer is a real pain considering the hit-or-miss nature of it. She's volunteered to be a bicycle scout for me and grab bikes when they bring them out, but she needs to decide which are decent, and she knows next to nothing about bikes. Here's what I've figured out so far...let me know if you think I should change anything. I'm going to show her real-life examples of everything, and she's going to bring a magnet to tell the difference between steel and aluminum.

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SCORING
-Only buy bikes that score a 4 or better.
-If the frame is damaged, only buy it if it scores a 7.
-If the bike is very old, as in pre-1950s, ignore this and buy it.
-If anything on the bike says "Campagnolo", ignore this and buy it.

CRANKS
-One Piece..................DO NOT BUY
round, steel cranks that curve into the center
-3 Piece, cottered.........0
skinny, steel cranks bolted to the axle. the bolt is perpendicular to the axle.
-3 Piece, standard........1
wider, aluminum cranks with no visible bolts. there is a dustcap that conceals the bolt.

SHIFTERS
-Thumb......................1
mountain bike-style shifters, clamped onto the handlebars.
-Stem........................1
shift levers clamped onto the stem(the piece holding the handlebars).
-Downtube...................2
shift levers attached to the diagonal tube on the frame of the bike.
-Bar-End.....................AUTOMATICALLY PURCHASE
shift levers sticking out from the ends of the handlebars.

DROPOUTS
-Press-Fit.....................DO NOT BUY
stamped dropouts which are visibly "clamped" into the tubes.
-Stamped.....................1
dropout is flat, and looks like it was made with a cookie cutter. edges are flat
-Forged......................2
dropout has 3D surface features, especially where the axle clamps on. edges are typically rounded.

RIMS
-Steel..........................0
chrome finish, often rusty
-Aluminum.....................2
dull finish, no rust

BENT FRAMES
I drew her a side-view stick diagram of a normal frameset, and then one that has been in a front-end collision(bent fork, bent top/down tubes behind headtube) and explained what to look for, including paint flaking and subsequent rust in those areas. I don't want to overload her with info and make it too hard for her to do this for me, considering it's a favor, so I limited the frame damage to this.

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So...thoughts?
I made it so I'd only get better than: steel rims, cottered cranks, stem shifters, stamped drop outs.

I think that's a pretty good guide for someone keeping watch at Goodwill, but my 1951 Raleigh Clubman with its 27" Dunlop Special Lighweight steel rims and cottered crankset wouldn't score very well. It does have a Reynolds 531 sticker, so giving her a photo of what those look like might be a good idea to catch some vintage bikes.

Neal

Good point. I was going to say: "If it looks fancy, just get it anyway", but pictures are definitely better.

Maybe you could make her a little photo album of the various details.
Picture's worth 1,000 words and all...;)

-If anything on the bike says "Campagnolo", ignore this and buy it.
+1
might want to add some frame tubing decals to the list, too. the telltale Reynolds and Columbus ones.

It does have a Reynolds 531 sticker, so giving her a photo of what those look like might be a good idea to catch some vintage bikes.

Werd. Or 7whatevertheheckitis steel. What about knocking off points for stuff like rust or fit? I was kinda bummed when I realized I got ripped off on my trek, but, stuff doesn't rust out here, so it's not bad from a practical POV.

Maybe you could make her a little photo album of the various details.
Picture's worth 1,000 words and all...;)

I have an example of everything on the list at my house, so she's going to come over and I'll go over it with her.



might want to add some frame tubing decals to the list, too. the telltale Reynolds and Columbus ones.

good idea

Actually, any bike built with decent tubing would already win based on the points thing, so that would just be adding extra stuff. I'm trying to keep it as simple as possible, since I'm being done a favor.

wood rims = BUY IT!

Neal

Thanks for the list. I've got a buddy i'm going to give it to.

Stem and downtube shifters are generally just from different eras right?
Also, I'd include something about bikes with simplex prestige, mainly all low-mid end bikes from early on in the bike boom have those derailleurs.

Axle adjusting screws on forged rear dropouts. Sure sign of at least a midrange frame & even if the screws are gone, the holes remain as in the Bianchi illustration.

I look for fenders with chrome crests:D

Aaron:)

It might not hurt to give the top-end component group brands. You say to buy all Campy, but you'd hate to miss Dura-Ace or XT (or SunTour XC-Pro, Superbe Pro, Superbe, etc.). The '1' rating on thumbshifters could be missing 'XT' or XC-Pro shifters and some of these sell for quite a bit alone.

you should get camera phones.

XC-Pro shifters and some of these sell for quite a bit alone.

Yes! I just gave up on a pair of these. They are at $51 with 12 hours to go. (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=250089570623&ssPageName=STRK:MEBI:IT&ih=015)

The crankset thing is risky - some of the nicest bikes I've got have cottered cranks.....

The idea of a brief checklist for your very gracious - but still a non-bike hobbyist - lady friend is a good idea. As you can see though by the serious-bike-guys' suggestions here it can and will very quickly become way too cumbersome for a volunteer to be bothered with. Starts to look like a House of Representatives Bill loaded with Amendments. You've already caused a floor debate over cotters and one-piece cranks.

Might be a good thing for every one of us who goes junking for bikes to make up a simple list with our own personal preferences and keep a copy or two in the car in case a good volunteer candidate comes along. Every person's list will be different. BTW, to a non-bike person a filthy and scratched 1970s bike looks the same as a 1950s bike and I wouldn't expect such a volunteer after two months to remember lugging or fillet brazing much less dropouts.

Simple and brief, not to mention some sort of thank-you gift just to keep your credit good with the volunteer.

Funny post here...........My wife was recently at a thrift store, and I had her check the bikes for me. We spent about 10 minutes on the phone while she described Magna's, Huffy's, and other assorted junk. The call ended abruptly after an argument over braze-ons on what she described as an "old 10 speed".........my bike scouting experiment ended in failure, but she got a nice dinner out of the experience ...........

Bumping for cmdr.

If Cmdr is looking for used bikes in the RVA area, he might send someone to the Goodwill auction over on Midlothian... the prob with looking for used bikes in RVA is we've got a couple of sleazy CL dealers who snap everything up, and then charge waaaayyy to much for it... their knowledge is at best suspect. I don't bother that much anymore; they see me coming and think anything I'm interested in is worth thousands... it's actually kind of sad/funny. You know, like one of those crappy paintings of a crying clown. Because I'll buy a UO8 for five bucks, but if I'm interested in it, it must be worth a lot...

If Cmdr is looking for used bikes in the RVA area, he might send someone to the Goodwill auction over on Midlothian... the prob with looking for used bikes in RVA is we've got a couple of sleazy CL dealers who snap everything up, and then charge waaaayyy to much for it... their knowledge is at best suspect. I don't bother that much anymore; they see me coming and think anything I'm interested in is worth thousands... it's actually kind of sad/funny. You know, like one of those crappy paintings of a crying clown. Because I'll buy a UO8 for five bucks, but if I'm interested in it, it must be worth a lot...

That kind of sucks, I'm sorry.
I'm actually not looking for anything right now (except 30 year old 36 hole clinchers), though I appreciate the info. My mom lives over on Southside.
I had this bumped for Badger_Biker because I thought the info was pertinent(sp?) and I couldn't find it by it's title.
You're right about the shady characters in the area. I just try and deal with the guys that I know.
(A shout-out to Evan, Chris, Luke, and Chip!)

Thanks
Rob

There's another auction at the Slavo Army on Hermitage, but the bikes aren't as good as the stuff that flows thru the Goodwill one.

Weird culture over at the Goodwill auction. Used to get a lot of pretty decent stuff over there, but I stopped going awhile back. Work got in the way. Kinda glad to have stopped.

Evan is the only guy on your list I really know (met Luke a couple times); I've traded with him more than once and he's pretty cool. Also gave a few bikes/frames to Re-Cycles when they opened.

I kept thinking about attending the Goodwill auction, but have actually reached the point where I'm quite happy with the five bikes currently in the garage. If anything, I need more time to RIDE not spend all my spare time working on bikes. I finally got around the motorcycle projects getting in the way of the bicycles by taking them one at a time to work and spending my lunch hour completing them.

I liked the concept of the guide for the bicycle scout - just don't get it bogged down into too much detail. If you've got a volunteer willing to look out for you, and you can teach her to snag you nothing worse than a 70's Raleigh Record, you're doing just fine - don't worry about the finer details. Enjoy it, and sell off the stuff that isn't quite up to your standards.

Yes! I just gave up on a pair of these. They are at $51 with 12 hours to go. (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=250089570623&ssPageName=STRK:MEBI:IT&ih=015)

What?! I've got a pair of those in black, the xc-pro version. You mean people like those? I need to dig up my parts box. I have a ton of campy BB spindles in there, that's for sure. I just put my brand new Nuovo Record brake levers (and original cables with the "C" on the end and housing) on my bike. I had it in a ziplock with talcum powder for 20 years.

Weird culture over at the Goodwill auction. Used to get a lot of pretty decent stuff over there, but I stopped going awhile back. Work got in the way. Kinda glad to have stopped.

Just read about the auction today actually...


I need more time to RIDE not spend all my spare time working on bikes.

I love to ride, but tearing down, fixing, cleaning, polishing, and building back up fill in the hours when you can't be riding. Keep 'em coming... if only I could afford it.

Let's try the formula on a 1960 Capo:

Campag. derailleurs, QR hubset, and downtube levers
steel cottered cranks
steel seatpost
diagonal Reynolds 531 (full, d.b. main triangle) sticker
stamped steel dropouts w/o adjusting screws
aluminum rims (27" on Modell Campagnolo; tubular on Sieger)
Brooks Pro or Ideale tensioned leather saddle
Ambrosio adjustable-reach handlebar stem

Rims 2, Dropouts 1, Shifters 2.

=5

How about this...does anyone have a quality bicycle that wouldn't have been bought using this formula? I know my Hercules wouldn't have passed, unless it was recognized as being pre-1950s.

How about this...does anyone have a quality bicycle that wouldn't have been bought using this formula? I know my Hercules wouldn't have passed, unless it was recognized as being pre-1950s.


I don't own one, but how about a 1960 Schwinn Varsity or Continental?

On the flip side, my lowly Peugeot UO-8 beater scores disproportionately high because of my aftermarket aluminum rims, aluminum crankset, and barcons.

I don't think my '51 Raleigh Clubman would score very high: cottered cranks, steel 27" wheels (Dunlop Lightweight), no derailleur hanger. It does have a Reynolds 531 sticker, however (the one in my avatar).

Neal

I don't own one, but how about a 1960 Schwinn Varsity or Continental?


There are plenty of Schwinns worth buying that would get passed by. Lots of vintage BMX bikes are worth good money too. I would also add:

Tandem: Automatically buy.
Recumbent: Automatically buy.

BRAKE LEVERS (on road bikes with drop bars)-
-Turky levers......................0
-Normal........................1
-Aero...................2

There's a guy in my area that pays homeless guys to hang out at the thrift stores and wait for bikes to come in. They call him when something good comes in and sit on it till he arrives. He pays them $5 per bike that he ends up buying. I should start paying them $7 using this list.

Well, I gave her the list yesterday, so we'll see what happens...I've got my hopes up. It's like having your own mercenary:D

Turkey levers=safety levers right?
Well I like mine, they're damn handy.

Agree on the turkey wings. Typically a sign of a lower end bike, but I wouldn't bother giving an extrra point for aero, unless you are trying to skew the results to more modern bikes.

Taint fair to have a volunteer at these places holding a bike for you! I may want it, but can't get it until you look it over later. First there should get it.