"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Random Cat 5 observations

I'll start with the preface that everybody has to learn for themselves, and Cat 5 races are for learning, but some things crack me up:

1)there's hardly a single corner in a crit that someone doesn't yell inside (see earlier thread.)

2) Why would anyone sit in on a hill, while the pack climbs it at a moderate pace, only to attack into a headwind on the flat just after the climb. Yesterdays race it was the same pattern for 3 laps, climb the hill at a moderate pace, then attacks break lose just after the top into the wind.

3) Yelling "get out of the way" is not going to open up a line for you in a field sprint. On yesterday's up hill finish I was pinned on the far edge of the road when the guy infront ran out of gas,and there was no room to go around. Only thing to do was wait until an opening developed The guy behind me caught in the same circumstance was yelling at me to get out of the way, like he thought I had some obligation to pull off the road and yield to him.

(by the way I'm not complaining about getting boxed in, you pick your wheel and your line and you take your chances. Besides I wasn't going to win a hill top finish anyway.)



To the extent there's any theme here, announcing your presence and intentions, a la points 1 and 3 is going to shut down holes, not open them.

there's a 'hill' on the circuit where i race. it's nothing more than a bridge, and is a whopping +/- 30 meters long. nothing really, except there's almost alway a headwind right before it, and it breaks your rhythm.

ok, you get the picture.

my point: IME the attacks that count don't start before, or on the 'hill', they start on top of it.

Verbal motivation can be a powerful tool. I know a cat 1 who races lots of masters and wins often. He's very softspoken outside the peleton, but does some shouting when racing. I've heard him say after races that he didnt have any team mates in the field, so he had to use his mouth.

The thing about using your voice is you cant do it all the time or someone's going to smack you, and if used against you, recognize it and only pull or whatever if it suits you.

I'm suprised at how many people yell things like 'slowing' and 'hole' and 'gravel'

I'm suprised at how many people yell things like 'slowing' and 'hole' and 'gravel'


Most people arn't that big of jack @sses to not point out pot holes and other road hazards. It is a unwritten code. Just because you are racing doesn't mean you have to be cut throat. (although I have seem some idiots really fight it out for a $10.00 gift card primes). I have found that whatever you do in a race will usually come around to haunt you a couple races later. There is no point in making enemies with people you see every weekend for 9 weeks in a row.

Verbal motivation can be a powerful tool. I know a cat 1 who races lots of masters and wins often. He's very softspoken outside the peleton, but does some shouting when racing. I've heard him say after races that he didnt have any team mates in the field, so he had to use his mouth.

The thing about using your voice is you cant do it all the time or someone's going to smack you, and if used against you, recognize it and only pull or whatever if it suits you.

I completely agree with this, and I talk all the time, trying to get people to do what I want. However, I'd suggest that "inside" is more likely to result in the inside line closing down.

And "go" "allez" "pick it up", "you can do it", "get on that wheel," etc, is going to be a lot more likely to get the desired result than "get out of the way". Which might very well just get you slowed down even more, human nature being what it is.

i'll never forget the guy who yelled "guys hold up!!!" right before everyone winded up for the sprint. we thought maybe one of the officials was yelling something so most of us slowed and looked around. the guy got a good jump on everyone. sneaky but effective.

Verbal motivation can be a powerful tool. I know a cat 1 who races lots of masters and wins often. He's very softspoken outside the peleton, but does some shouting when racing. I've heard him say after races that he didnt have any team mates in the field, so he had to use his mouth.

The thing about using your voice is you cant do it all the time or someone's going to smack you, and if used against you, recognize it and only pull or whatever if it suits you.

sounds like me, except that i'm not that soft-spoken off of the bike, and i do more than 'some' shouting when i race. :D

by now the regular guys i race against know i really mean it when i start shouting in english (as opposed to my key-rap dutch). ;)

sounds like me, except that i'm not that soft-spoken off of the bike, and i do more than 'some' shouting when i race. :D

Why am I not surprised:)


I'm suprised at how many people yell things like 'slowing' and 'hole' and 'gravel'
Not pointing these things out can get people hurt. However, some people tend to over do it.

Why am I not surprised:)


Not pointing these things out can get people hurt. However, some people tend to over do it.

Got me. ;)

sounds like me, except that i'm not that soft-spoken off of the bike, and i do more than 'some' shouting when i race

:eek:

Say it ain't so. You have a completely different persona online. :rolleyes:

:p

Here are some of my Cat 5 observations:

1) Myth, Cat 5 races are crash fests. Granted I only did 10 cat5 races but in those I saw 3 crashes. I've now done 4 cat 4 races and 1 45+ masters race. In the 4 cat 4 races I've seen at least 20 guys hit the deck, one ended up in the hospital. In the masters race the riding was down right sketchy, once these guys got a little fatigued they could ride a straight line if their lives depended on it.

2) Cat 5's all ride $10,000.00 bikes and roll up in Porsche Cayannes. I see the bling in every cat out there, it's not just the 5's.

My personal feeling is that cat 5's are the whipping boys of amature cycling. There are crashes in every cat. There are crashes caused by someone doing something really stupid in every cat (at least according to the guys involved in said crash). There are guys with money riding uber trick bikes in every cat. The only real difference in the cats is the speed at which all this is happening.

^^+1.

Anyway, merlin, haven't you been racing long enough to cat up? That would render the entire issue moot, at least for you. Around here I definitely see that the 3/4's race a lot smarter.

^^^^^
May have done my last Cat 5 race. Was just waiting until I got in a little better shape.

Here are some of my Cat 5 observations:

1) Myth, Cat 5 races are crash fests. Granted I only did 10 cat5 races but in those I saw 3 crashes. I've now done 4 cat 4 races and 1 45+ masters race. In the 4 cat 4 races I've seen at least 20 guys hit the deck, one ended up in the hospital. In the masters race the riding was down right sketchy, once these guys got a little fatigued they could ride a straight line if their lives depended on it.

2) Cat 5's all ride $10,000.00 bikes and roll up in Porsche Cayannes. I see the bling in every cat out there, it's not just the 5's.

My personal feeling is that cat 5's are the whipping boys of amature cycling. There are crashes in every cat. There are crashes caused by someone doing something really stupid in every cat (at least according to the guys involved in said crash). There are guys with money riding uber trick bikes in every cat. The only real difference in the cats is the speed at which all this is happening.

used to be cat 4s, now they're not the lowest on the totem poll.

vis-a-vis the 3/10 crashes in the 5s, and the 4/4 crashes i the 4s: what was the differences in field sizes, and course layouts?

When I was announcing a race in Lake Placid (1990), I made a comment as I was calling the Cat 4s to the line. Something like "hold on tight, hide the children, here come the Cat 4s!"

One guy came up and yelled at me for an hour about how rude I was to say that.

It was meant to be funny. He obviously didn't see it that way. Made quite a scene about it.

I never used that line again.

When I was announcing a race in Lake Placid (1990), I made a comment as I was calling the Cat 4s to the line. Something like "hold on tight, hide the children, here come the Cat 4s!"

One guy came up and yelled at me for an hour about how rude I was to say that.

It was meant to be funny. He obviously didn't see it that way. Made quite a scene about it.

I never used that line again.

Should've punched him in the face, and went on with your day.

when people yell inside in the corner that is usually because the idiot infront of them cant hold his line through a corner, that deserves a punch in the face also.

it is okay to yell in races, especially if it gets the dumb and inexperienced ones out of the way, if someone gets mad punch them in the face.

If none of the above works for you, put your underwear on your head, you'll feel better.

When I was announcing a race in Lake Placid (1990), I made a comment as I was calling the Cat 4s to the line. Something like "hold on tight, hide the children, here come the Cat 4s!"

One guy came up and yelled at me for an hour about how rude I was to say that.

It was meant to be funny. He obviously didn't see it that way. Made quite a scene about it.

I never used that line again.

The announcer said about the same thing at the Race for Humanity in Fl. something like Look out folks, make sure your out of the way, here comes the Cat 5 sprint!!

After all that it was an uneventful sprint.

when people yell inside in the corner that is usually because the idiot infront of them cant hold his line through a corner, that deserves a punch in the face also.



that would be a legitimate reason to yell inside. These day's it's like siblings calling shotgun. Apparently some people think they get first dibs on a line because they called it.

When I was announcing a race in Lake Placid (1990), I made a comment as I was calling the Cat 4s to the line. Something like "hold on tight, hide the children, here come the Cat 4s!"

One guy came up and yelled at me for an hour about how rude I was to say that.

It was meant to be funny. He obviously didn't see it that way. Made quite a scene about it.

I never used that line again.

Even if unintended, stuff like that can come across as condescending. I recall when I was a 5 and racing the Kelly Cup/Bikejam crit in baltimore, which is a NRC event. The announcer, who does alot of big races said something in his microphone to the effect of, "jeez, half you guys have your #s pinned on wrong" then laughed like what a bunch of morons. I found it condescending then and still do now. I stuck around that day to watch the pros race, and remember seeing at least 2 with #s on upside down, but I dont remember announcer dude saying anyone had their #s pinned on wrong.

I'm glad they approved my upgrade to Cat4 this morning, that race yesterday scared me pretty good.

Should've punched him in the face, and went on with your day.

when people yell inside in the corner that is usually because the idiot infront of them cant hold his line through a corner, that deserves a punch in the face also.

it is okay to yell in races, especially if it gets the dumb and inexperienced ones out of the way, if someone gets mad punch them in the face.

If none of the above works for you, put your underwear on your head, you'll feel better.

A great post! The bassplayer has managed to tie together 4 long standing themes on the board, in a semi coherent fashion. Yelling at Riders, Eleitism, Underwear/No Underwear, and Internet Tough Guy.

used to be cat 4s, now they're not the lowest on the totem poll.

vis-a-vis the 3/10 crashes in the 5s, and the 4/4 crashes i the 4s: what was the differences in field sizes, and course layouts?

Well I think it's more because of the constant bashing the 5's get on our local racing website. I really think the 5's fields are so much more concerned about not screwing up that they pay more attention. Once you are out the feeling is now I can be the racer I've always meant to be ;) Last season the upper cats had more crashes than the 5's in RR's and Crits. The 3's were the worst offenders with crashes in nearly every sprint last season. The other factor that contributes to 5's having less finish line crashes is that there were far fewer bunch sprints. There were always the 5-10 strong guys that basically rode away in the last 2k to fight out.

Still I find pretty hypocritical to say that the 5's are a crash fest when there are crashes in every cat.

that would be a legitimate reason to yell inside. These day's it's like siblings calling shotgun. Apparently some people think they get first dibs on a line because they called it.

I've only called it when I'm dead level with someone and they are pushing me into a culvert. This happened damn near every corner in the 45 masters race, some guy would come flying from the outside to grab the apex and then nearly take out three of us. Then apologize profusely for doing it. I finally said to one constant offender if you know I'm there then don't do it. Apologizing ain't gonna cut it if in a ditch. I put my hand on guys hips who are drifting over, I grabbed a guys jersey in the 45's race who was weaving so badly that he bumped me five or six times and told him to hold his f'n line, again out came the apologies.

Here are some of my Cat 5 observations:

1) Myth, Cat 5 races are crash fests. Granted I only did 10 cat5 races but in those I saw 3 crashes. I've now done 4 cat 4 races and 1 45+ masters race. In the 4 cat 4 races I've seen at least 20 guys hit the deck, one ended up in the hospital.
2) Cat 5's all ride $10,000.00 bikes and roll up in Porsche Cayannes. I see the bling in every cat out there, it's not just the 5's.

I've done three races now as a Cat.4. No crashes in our field, but some in the 5's and one in the 1-2-3's. So, the Cat 4 field is always twice as big as the 5's, some times 3 times as big. When you average it out by number of riders, the 5's have WAY more crashes. The 3's crash as well. But it's usually not because they don't have the skills, a lot of what I've heard about is mechanical failures (flat tire, pedal unclipped, brakes froze).

Not all 5's roll up on $5000 bikes. But some do, and to me that's annoying, and stupid. I'm of the camp that you should earn your bike, within reason. You shouldn't start on the best bike available.

I've done three races now as a Cat.4. No crashes in our field, but some in the 5's and one in the 1-2-3's. So, the Cat 4 field is always twice as big as the 5's, some times 3 times as big. When you average it out by number of riders, the 5's have WAY more crashes. The 3's crash as well. But it's usually not because they don't have the skills, a lot of what I've heard about is mechanical failures (flat tire, pedal unclipped, brakes froze).

Not all 5's roll up on $5000 bikes. But some do, and to me that's annoying, and stupid. I'm of the camp that you should earn your bike, within reason. You shouldn't start on the best bike available.

Why?

Not all 5's roll up on $5000 bikes. But some do, and to me that's annoying, and stupid. I'm of the camp that you should earn your bike, within reason. You shouldn't start on the best bike available.

Annoying because they've earned more money than you? With the exception of children, whose parents gave them the bike, those people earned those bike.

Well I think it's more because of the constant bashing the 5's get on our local racing website. I really think the 5's fields are so much more concerned about not screwing up that they pay more attention. Once you are out the feeling is now I can be the racer I've always meant to be ;) Last season the upper cats had more crashes than the 5's in RR's and Crits. The 3's were the worst offenders with crashes in nearly every sprint last season. The other factor that contributes to 5's having less finish line crashes is that there were far fewer bunch sprints. There were always the 5-10 strong guys that basically rode away in the last 2k to fight out.

Still I find pretty hypocritical to say that the 5's are a crash fest when there are crashes in every cat.

I agree with this based on my experience moving up thru the ranks (from 4 to 2, no 5 at the time). 3's were the worst. A concentration of agressive riding, strength and lack of experience (or stupidity) that the other Cats missed. By cat 2 the guys who were trying to win in turn 2 of lap 3, or the guys prone to taking idiot lines into the last turn were either weeded out or smarted up.

Annoying because they've earned more money than you? With the exception of children, whose parents gave them the bike, those people earned those bike.

This all goes back to the changing demographic in amature cycling. The ave age of licensed USCF racers is now between 30-35 years of age. These guys have real jobs and are not trying to eek out a living as a bike shop mechanic.

Not all 5's roll up on $5000 bikes. But some do, and to me that's annoying, and stupid. I'm of the camp that you should earn your bike, within reason. You shouldn't start on the best bike available.
It's amateur racing. People do it for fun and excitement. The only "earning" is whatever you can afford to race on. Who cares what other people are racing on. Whats important is that they are not "that swirly" guy, not what bikes people are on.

Not all 5's roll up on $5000 bikes. But some do, and to me that's annoying, and stupid. I'm of the camp that you should earn your bike, within reason. You shouldn't start on the best bike available.

I find this remark to be, shall we say, ill-considered. Why make moral judgments about someone else who either has money or does not have it. Having money does not make you a better person or a better racer. But neither does NOT having money make you inherently more noble or godly. If someone rolls up on an $800 beater and races hard, that's great. If the same guy rolls up on some piece of trick Euro-exotica, that's great too.

So stop judging people based on whether they have money or not and judge them based on their character... It is not your place to say who has "earned" what

So stop judging people based on whether they have money or not and judge them based on their character... It is not your place to say who has "earned" what

And that, as Stone Cold Steve Austin would say, is the bottom line. Well said.

I find this remark to be, shall we say, ill-considered. Why make moral judgments about someone else who either has money or does not have it. Having money does not make you a better person or a better racer. But neither does NOT having money make you inherently more noble or godly. If someone rolls up on an $800 beater and races hard, that's great. If the same guy rolls up on some piece of trick Euro-exotica, that's great too.

So stop judging people based on whether they have money or not and judge them based on their character... It is not your place to say who has "earned" what

HA HA! I guess I found all the CAT 5's riding $5000 bikes.
I made no MORAL judgements. Quote me, go ahead. What did I say?
"I'm of the camp that you should earn your bike, within reason. You shouldn't start on the best bike available."
I found it annoying to ME. Just like some people get annoyed by people doing the speed limit in the left lane. If you want to spend $5000 on a bike, when you just started racing, go ahead. Just don't cry when your fancy carbon fiber bike gets toasted in a crit because a squirely cat 5 smashed into you.

But mainly it's because that money could be used elsewhere. The performance difference between a $2000 bike and a $5000 is minimal for a cat 5. The $3000 could be used elsewhere with much better results. Like on a coach, or personal trainer.

Frankly I knew I'd get flamed by making that comment, but it's how I see things. Sorry my opinion struck a nerve with some people.

Frankly I knew I'd get flamed by making that comment, but it's how I see things.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I'd be interested to know what cat you race in, what you ride, and how much you think you'd be able to comfortably afford to spend for a bike.

there's a 'hill' on the circuit where i race. it's nothing more than a bridge, and is a whopping +/- 30 meters long. nothing really, except there's almost alway a headwind right before it, and it breaks your rhythm.

ok, you get the picture.

my point: IME the attacks that count don't start before, or on the 'hill', they start on top of it.

Botto, what category do you race in over there in Holland? How old are you/do they have Master's there? Is it similar to amateur weekend racing here in the USA??

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I'd be interested to know what cat you race in, what you ride, and how much you think you'd be able to comfortably afford to spend for a bike.
Cat 4
Kona Zing Supreme
$1500-$2000

Yes, I understand a lot of people make a lot more money than I do. I'm not bitter. I decided to enter a profession (Architecture) that, despite the extra education, long licensing process, and heavy work load, just doesn't pay very well. I don't care if you make six figures. I don't care if you ride the same bike as Basso, Armstrong, whoever. I just think that bike racing might be a little different if we all rode the same bike.

The funny thing is, people are flaming me because I'm giving the guys on the $5000 bikes a hard time. But how many dirty looks did I get from racers/club riders when I use to show up on my old Specialized. It works both ways, and you all know it.

HA HA! I guess I found all the CAT 5's riding $5000 bikes.
I made no MORAL judgements. Quote me, go ahead. What did I say?
"I'm of the camp that you should earn your bike, within reason. You shouldn't start on the best bike available."
I found it annoying to ME. Just like some people get annoyed by people doing the speed limit in the left lane. If you want to spend $5000 on a bike, when you just started racing, go ahead. Just don't cry when your fancy carbon fiber bike gets toasted in a crit because a squirely cat 5 smashed into you.

But mainly it's because that money could be used elsewhere. The performance difference between a $2000 bike and a $5000 is minimal for a cat 5. The $3000 could be used elsewhere with much better results. Like on a coach, or personal trainer.

Frankly I knew I'd get flamed by making that comment, but it's how I see things. Sorry my opinion struck a nerve with some people.

The only part of your statement that got me was 'earn' part. The guys that make these comments in person tend to be young, college aged and living with roommates. Now you can tell us that your 39 and partner in successful law firm making 800k a year and we couldn't prove you wrong. But for the afore mentioned young rider/racer remember for someone like me who is making a very good living $5k for a bike isn't that big a deal. Neither is owning my own home or driving a nice car. Yes it's true I could live in less expensive crappy home and drive a less expensive crappy car and race a less expensive bike. But I choose not too.

I have worked very very hard over the last 18years to become good at what I do. That entailed me working doubles 6 days a week in the first few years of learning my craft at very little pay. So I guess I've earned the right to enjoy the success. What I find interesting is when the same people who think one must earn the right to have a nice bike are wearing a pro team jersey, I assume they earned one of those as well.

The bottom line is why would you care? If you drop the guy it isn't because of his bike and if he drops you it isn't because of his bike. If you race a low budget bike that is in perfect working order then all the power to you, just be happy that guys are showing up to race, on what ever they choose to race on.

people are flaming me

I think they are simply disagreeing with your stated opinion regarding what Cat5 racers should or should not do.

--Steve

I have worked very very hard over the last 18years to become good at what I do. That entailed me working doubles 6 days a week in the first few years of learning my craft at very little pay. So I guess I've earned the right to enjoy the success. What I find interesting is when the same people who think one must earn the right to have a nice bike are wearing a pro team jersey, I assume they earned one of those as well.

No, not at all. You missed before when I said a cat 5 could buy a $2000 bike and spend the rest of the money hiring a coach or personal trainer. That would be more productive. Don't you agree? And isn't racing about doing/being/performing your best? Yes, there is fun involved, but it's all about competition. What is going to make you a better competitor? Tell me. A $5000 bike, or a $2000 bike and $3000 worth of coaching, training, etc.

I have worked very very hard over the last 18years to become good at what I do. That entailed me working doubles 6 days a week in the first few years of learning my craft at very little pay. So I guess I've earned the right to enjoy the success. What I find interesting is when the same people who think one must earn the right to have a nice bike are wearing a pro team jersey, I assume they earned one of those as well.

The bottom line is why would you care? If you drop the guy it isn't because of his bike and if he drops you it isn't because of his bike. If you race a low budget bike that is in perfect working order then all the power to you, just be happy that guys are showing up to race, on what ever they choose to race on.


I'm inspired. Couldn't have said it better.

I just think that bike racing might be a little different if we all rode the same bike.

The funny thing is, people are flaming me because I'm giving the guys on the $5000 bikes a hard time. But how many dirty looks did I get from racers/club riders when I use to show up on my old Specialized. It works both ways, and you all know it.

So you're saying the bike DOES make a difference. The logical extension of that would be that if you could afford a better/faster bike you'd buy one whether you "earned" it or not, because there's some inherent advantage that you don't enjoy by riding your cheaper bike.

And no, I've never given anyone a "dirty look" about what bike they're riding. I would contend that your perception might be making these "dirty looks" out of something that's not really there. But if people truly are poo-pooing you because of your bike, then they're just as much in the wrong as you are for labeling those on nice bikes as somehow not deserving.

I am not trying to flame you. Indeed I ride an $1800 Bianchi with a couple big chunks of paint scrapped off the top tube.

If anything what's great about bike racing is that spending $5000 does not get you a faster bike -- at least by very much. So I disagree that racing would be more "equal" if people were on standardized bikes.

It is all about the engine. And that is something that money can't buy. That is the beauty of the sport.

No, not at all. You missed before when I said a cat 5 could buy a $2000 bike and spend the rest of the money hiring a coach or personal trainer. That would be more productive. Don't you agree? And isn't racing about doing/being/performing your best? Yes, there is fun involved, but it's all about competition. What is going to make you a better competitor? Tell me. A $5000 bike, or a $2000 bike and $3000 worth of coaching, training, etc.

What about social forces within team dynamic where everyone chooses to ride $5000 bikes? That is very common. The team can be a greater coach than apersonal coaching.

What is going to make you a better competitor? Tell me. A $5000 bike, or a $2000 bike and $3000 worth of coaching, training, etc.

That wasn't your argument. The argument was that it takes a certain level of cycling ability to be worthy of said $5000 bike.

But nice back-pedaling, either way.

It is all about the engine. And that is something that money can't buy. That is the beauty of the sport.

Ghostman continues to be the fountain of truth. :beer:

No, not at all. You missed before when I said a cat 5 could buy a $2000 bike and spend the rest of the money hiring a coach or personal trainer. That would be more productive. Don't you agree? And isn't racing about doing/being/performing your best? Yes, there is fun involved, but it's all about competition. What is going to make you a better competitor? Tell me. A $5000 bike, or a $2000 bike and $3000 worth of coaching, training, etc.

I agree completely. I've told people who have asked me about my carbon wheels that if I had to choose between my coach and my wheels I'd have taken the coach in a heart beat. In your original post you more judgmental about Cat 5's on high dollar bikes. Also it's important to realize that the age demographic has really moved upward in the last 10 years. Entry level racers are no longer early 20 somethings the are now mid 30 somethings. With this comes a whole different mindset and bank account. Also for some of these guys having a Madone with carbon wheels and an SRM gets them motivated to ride their bikes to begin with.

Look I agree with the whole bike thing, I race a CAAD8 because I think it's the best handling race bike out there and it's cheap. If I crash it I don't care because the frames next to nothing compared to a LOOK 595. The irony is that if I weren't racing I'd have a 595 because they are that f'n sexy.

The other interesting thing about our sport is that we all love the 'things'. The power meters the carbon wheels, the uber light framesets. This is part of the sport that I love. There is a guy who comes out and races a full carbon Cinelli with RAM bars and 07 Record. The bike is just pure sex, and he's kinda slow. But man he loves his bike and he lines up every other weekend just like the rest of us. He's enjoying himself and if you aren't at least doing that at this level then what's the f'n point.

But mainly it's because that money could be used elsewhere. The performance difference between a $2000 bike and a $5000 is minimal for a cat 5. The $3000 could be used elsewhere with much better results. Like on a coach, or personal trainer.

What about the Cat 5 who has $10000 to spend, and buys a $7000 bike and spends $3000 on a power meter and coaching?

That wasn't your argument. The argument was that it takes a certain level of cycling ability to be worthy of said $5000 bike.

But nice back-pedaling, either way.
Seriously?
No, I said "I'm of the camp that you should earn your bike, within reason. You shouldn't start on the best bike available."
That was my original statement.
Within reason.

And I said that "bike racing might be a little different if we all rode the same bike." I didn't say I'd be wining at every race because now we have the same equipment. Have you ever talked to a runner? It's all about performance and training with them. Love your bike, but when you're on that last lap and your legs are burning and your lungs can't give anymore, what's going to get you to the podium? Your bike, or your training.

That wasn't your argument. The argument was that it takes a certain level of cycling ability to be worthy of said $5000 bike.

But nice back-pedaling, either way.

ouch.