General Cycling Discussion - up hill,....its all in your head!!!!!!

OK, I don't know about you, I hate riding up hill. Well not any more. I have finaly realized that its realy all in your head when you ride up hill. Yeah, its more difficult, but if you have the bike in the lowest gear the bike will give the same resistance as if it were in a higher gear traveling on flat ground. People like me hate riding slow, and get real streest when ride up hill very slowly. I found that if I just pace my self, stay on the saddle, and put the bike in first gear, its realy no different than riding on flat ground in a higher gear. Only drawback is Im only going 10 mph. Thats why I hardly ever look up when riding up hill, I point my head to the ground and watch the pavment pass by. Its the same reason people tell you not to look down when your on the top of a huge building or structure. :beer:

'Up hill... all in you head'? True for me, since I live in the Netherlands (where there's no verticality worth mentioning). Here it is the wind that eats your speed. I am already looking forward to the next club excursion (Flêche Walonne) and holidays (Czech Republic)! It's time for a Once it gets steep, I will keep your post in mind.


Only drawback is Im only going 10 mph.

When posting numbers like this one, do you expect comments from the other forum members?

Well, I'm impressed: 10 mph (16 kph) is pretty fast on a climb of let's say 13,5 m (22 km) to 1,25 m (2.000 m) with an average gradient of 8%.


I point my head to the ground and watch the pavment pass by.

I wouldn't copy you, with my zig-zagging style.

I often experience the opposite effect - false flats or false downhills.
The road "looks" flat, but you find yourself working hard. Then you look back over your shoulder and find you are actually going up hill!

I find this happens most often after cresting a hill, just as you're looking forward to enjoying the whizz down the other side.

Stew

I partly agree. Big hills are often just a matter of persistance and perservereance. I find that I am usually climbing some of them at 3-4 mph. Its the slow speed that makes the difference in regards to time over the hill, and the amount of work you will have to do.

Yes, you are in a lower gear (24f x 36r on my bike) so the amount of effort is stretched over the length of the hill. On a 10-12% grade, you are still working despite the gears, and working hard. Strecth that out over 2 or more miles and you have done a ton of work, no breeze to cool you, and you cannot coast to recover your heart rate.

I used to hate hills, but after you attack some, you don't think the ride is complete without at least a 3000' gain. (Of course that is sounding small to me now that I have done more hills)

Here are a couple of hill mind tricks.

If it is a shorter hill that you can see the top of you usually kind of aim right for the top. The last few yards your mind usually tells you it is time to quit, making the last bit painful. Do this: Mentally aim for a point about 20ft past the crest of the hill. That way by the time your brain say "I can't do anymore" you have just crested the hill.

On a long nasty climb use the bungee cord technique. I use this alot in offroad hillclimbs and it really works. When the pain sets in and you feel like quitting, pick a rock or tree or a spot on the trail about 30ft in front of you. Imagine that you have three big bungee cords wrapped around your waist. Mentally throw them one at a time around the rock and "feel" them pull you up. It works.

Originally posted by Sailguy
I partly agree. Big hills are often just a matter of persistance and perservereance. I find that I am usually climbing some of them at 3-4 mph. Its the slow speed that makes the difference in regards to time over the hill, and the amount of work you will have to do.


I don't like hills much, but I'm trying to get better. One issue I have is how to tell how steep a hill is. How is that info obtained? Also, people often talk about "steep" hills, but what is considered "steep"?

On flat ground, I can ride 18 mph with a bit of effort and for short distances have gotten to 21-23 mph. The worst hills I normally ride on will slow me down to around 7 mph.

I sometimes take on a really short one (0.18 miles) that is very steep. My best time with maximum effort was just over 2 minutes! I'm not even sure I could get up it with less effort. I have to stand part of the time just to keep moving. I hate going so slow while killing myself.

Bob

Personally I love hills, the more the better. Unusually for Australia, I can actually find a few around here, too. My approach depends on the hill itself. The short steep ones I attack. The longer ones I shift down the gears as the resistance increases and ultimately spin up it. Either way, hills are what makes a ride worthwhile, they provide the best challenges and the greatest scenery.

TheRCF, as far as finding out how steep a hill is, there are a couple ways. One is to get a gradiometer (inclometer) for your bike. It looks like a curved level that attaches to the handlebars.

Or you can use my method, which is simplified by there being a lot of information online about the local hills. Some are 7%, some are 19% and some are in the middle. Climbing those, you get a good sense of what-is-what and then you can guestimate the others.

For me, steep is anything beyond 10%. A good long climb (2 or more miles) at 6-9% is challenging, but doable without feeling like the hill will win at any moment.

Beyond 10%, I begin to feel the pain of the hill, and it becomes a much more personal battle. Feeling more shortness of breath, the sense that any lapse in cadence will result in forward momentum ceasing, and wondering where the hell the top is.

The steepest hill I have done is about 1/2 mile @ 19%. I did that before I got my triple ring using a 42x30 or so gearset. I found I was dying on this one. I tacked back and forth several times to bring my heart rate down, and found a couple driveways to do circles in. I am curious to see how I will handle it with my new bike and the lower gears.

The more hills you do, the more fond of them you will be. I used to hate them with a passion, and avoid them at all costs. Now I have my sights set on some good local climbs, and I am just as interested in total feet climbed as I am in miles ridden. I will gladly sacrifice 10miles for an additional 1000' of climb.

Besides, after a climb, you usually get to descend!

I agree with Sailguy. You may hate hills at first, and then learn to love them. When I lived in Pasadena, CA that was all I did (anything flat in LA has a building on it). Now that I am in FL, I really miss those long climbs.

I definitely need to check into that gradiometer as I like to know what I am dealing with. Hills tend to look steeper than what the numbers arctually show. I remember someone online talking about climbing a 40 degree hill!!! Well, I guess they felt it was that steep, but I doubt they really thought about how steep that would really be!

I suspect that when I actually measure some of my hills, they won't be what you consider to be steep.

> The more hills you do, the more fond of them you will be. I used to hate them with a passion, and avoid them at all costs. Now I have my sights set on some good local climbs, and I am just as interested in total feet climbed as I am in miles ridden. I will gladly sacrifice 10miles for an additional 1000' of climb. <

Gotta admit that some hills don't bother me now. When I started riding 15 months ago, even the tiniest hills that took about 20-25 pedal revolutis to get over were annoying. Those I hardly notice now. Others used to slow me down to 8 mph but I can hit at 11-15 (depends on the head wind) now.

I would like to get the ones which still cut me down to 7 mph or less to be more like 10 mph though.

Bob

Originally posted by stewartp
I often experience the opposite effect - false flats or false downhills.
The road "looks" flat, but you find yourself working hard. Then you look back over your shoulder and find you are actually going up hill!

I find this happens most often after cresting a hill, just as you're looking forward to enjoying the whizz down the other side.

Stew

Yes, I hate those! Low grade hills! You think you're riding on flat ground, but you're struggeling to go past 15 mph. Those steep hills are actually the best, cuz atleast you know you're going up hill.:D

Perhaps this is a stupid question, so hit me, if necessary. But I wonder what those grade percentages actually tell us (apart from 'climbing up the pain scale'). How are calculated (with which parameters)? Could anybody enlighten me, mathematically?

Originally posted by Bruco
Perhaps this is a stupid question, so hit me, if necessary. But I wonder what those grade percentages actually tell us (apart from 'climbing up the pain scale'). How are calculated (with which parameters)? Could anybody enlighten me, mathematically?

A 10% grade is one that travels 10 metres vertically for every 100 metres it travels horizontally. I think.

Chris L would be correct for %, but for degree I think it is the same as the degrees from 0 on a protractor. In other words 90 degrees would be strait up or a 100% grade.

Am I correct on this?:confused:

:confused:

I just did some very (very) rough drawing and measuring with the 10% example.

Chris L's formula (100 m horizontal, 10 m vertical) results in a uciflyflow-type degree of ca. 6%.

Reversely, a uciflyflow grade of 10% yields ca. 17 m of vertical travelling over the same 100 m, in Chris L's terms.

Originally posted by uciflylow
Chris L would be correct for %, but for degree I think it is the same as the degrees from 0 on a protractor. In other words 90 degrees would be strait up or a 100% grade.

Am I correct on this?:confused:

Is a 100% grade not 1:1, i.e 100m up for every 100m forward, and a 45 degree angle.?

Chewa
Exactly right
Joe

Originally posted by chewa
Is a 100% grade not 1:1, i.e 100m up for every 100m forward, and a 45 degree angle.?

Thanks, Chew and Joe, for straightening this out! :thumbup:

When filing ride reports, I will use uciflylow's notation for uphills, and Chew's for downhills.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by stewartp
[B]I often experience the opposite effect - false flats or false downhills.
The road "looks" flat, but you find yourself working hard. Then you look back over your shoulder and find you are actually going up hill!

Your Reply Stewart.... Reminds me of that remarkable stretch of road near Ayr in Scotland called the Electric Brae Where it amazes one to believe the fall is in the opposite direction to its true fall.

It is an "optical illusion" but truelly unbelievable to cycle and not totally confuse the mind.

Check it out by typing Electic brae on google......

I LOVE climbing! This is where I've found that I can drop a lot of riders, in the middle of a big hill. Heck, my whole spring vacation was centered around going into the mountains to train. This is one of my favorite parts about cycling, and I actively seek the biggest climbs I can find, then I ride them.

percent grade equals rise divided by run times one hundred

I looooooooove hills. Gimme the hills baby, I can handle them. hehe

Originally posted by fubar5
I looooooooove hills. Gimme the hills baby, I can handle them. hehe


Move to upstate NY or New England!:D You can buy an old house here for $25K, seriously!:D So many hills here if you're wondering.

:) Smelly,South Carolina has mountains too,Just like here in NY.