I'm fairly new to tandeming and was hoping for some advice/recomendations from the good folks here in the tandem forum.
I recently purchased a Cdale tandem. Jumbo/Large. And after a few rides I have a fit issue and some performance issues. First fit. And this is my most important concern. I'm 6'5" with pretty long legs for my height. The bike is really a bit small (but a custom was not a possibility) and the bars are too low. I'm thinking I could look for a very long stem with a steep rise as a solution. Or a new fork with a longer steerer tube. I'm thinking the fork option could potentially take some serious weight off the bike. I think it's the Reynolds tandem fork that can be ordered with a 350 mm steerer. That would work fine but I can't get it for disc brakes (the Cdale has disks). So my first question is: Would a caliper(DA or Ultegra) on front and the stock disk on back be sufficient for a 330 lb team? And, any thoughts on the fork options?
Ok, on to wheels. I've been looking around to see if there are weight limits on the Rolf tandem wheels and haven't found anything. Does anybody know if these wheels are ok for a 330 lb team?
We ride mostly fast club rides, no loads. Experienced single riders with some racing in our past.
Thanks in advance for any help.
The BikeForums Team
-adv-
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I would either follow conventional wisdom and go with a long, steep rise stem or ask your dealer to swap out your stock Cannondale OEM tandem fork for an uncut Cannondale OEM tandem fork that may give you a bit more room for some spacers. Sticking with the stock fork will preserve both your ability to use the front disc that you paid for as well as the stock steering geometry.
As for the Reynolds fork, from Reynolds FAQ's on carbon fork spacer stack height....
How many spacers can I use?
On an 1 1/8” fork you can use a maximum of 4.0 cm/1.58” of spacers.
On a 1” fork you can use a maximum of 2.5 cm/1.0” of spacers.
The Reynolds tandem fork also uses a bit more relaxed geometry than your Cannondale's stock fork. Frankly, it's so close (53mm stock vs. 55mm Reynolds) that it wouldn't be noticeable so that's not a barrier to an upgrade, but it certainly doesn't provide the silver bullet given the spacer stack height limits suggested in their FAQs.
As for the more general question about brake configuration, caliper or linear-pull brakes with a rear disc is a very common configuration for teams of your size.
Rolf lists a 380lb max weight for their Prima Vigor Tandem wheelsets. From a previous post that quoted the Rolf FAQs:
Q: Is there a maximum rider weight on Rolf Prima Wheels?
A: We list a max. rider weight recommendation for all of our wheels to serve as a general guideline. Regardless of wheel brand or spoke pattern, road conditions and riding style play a more significant role in determining the limits of a wheel. If you have concerns about what wheel is right for you, please contact your local authorized Rolf Prima dealer for a rider evaluation.
At the the bottom of their Product Index you'll find their weight limits and their single bike wheels top out at 220lbs for max rider weight, with their tandem wheels showing a max rider weight of 380lbs.
http://www.rolfprima.com/products/index.html
Hermes
Ok, on to wheels. I've been looking around to see if there are weight limits on the Rolf tandem wheels and haven't found anything. Does anybody know if these wheels are ok for a 330 lb team?
We have the Shimano Sweet Sixteen wheels and race our tandem in time trials. I consider Rolf, Bontrager and Shimano in the same class of wheel and come with similar advantages and problems. With a low spoke count wheels, you will need to pay attention to spoke tension every 300 miles or so. I check mine by the pitch (sound) of the spoke and take them to the shop to be checked by a tensiometer (sp). I have had no problems but I am very disciplined on this matter. We weigh 285.
Having said that, the wheels are very nice looking, low weight and very aero and always create a conversation when I am parked with other cyclists.:)
cornucopia72
I recently purchased a Cdale tandem. Jumbo/Large. And after a few rides I have a fit issue and some performance issues. First fit. And this is my most important concern. I'm 6'5" with pretty long legs for my height. The bike is really a bit small (but a custom was not a possibility) and the bars are too low. I'm thinking I could look for a very long stem with a steep rise as a solution. Or a new fork with a longer steerer tube.
The stem option makes the most sense. I am 6'4" and captain a small frame triple. I use the longest/steepest stem.
Fenlason
I would think even if you had to have a stem made for you.. it would make more sence, to go that route.
The stem riser idea is certainly simple and cheap. But I'm looking at that thing and hoping there is a way to tighten the bolt on top of the headset and clearance for the top cap (the thingy that sits on top of the stack/steerer tube).
I'm still intrigued by the new fork idea, partly because of the weight savings, and also because my stoker keeps telling me the bike feels sluggish and heavy (she's new to tandems too). She's a damn good cyclist. And I want to keep her. So .....
Long term, if this tandeming thing goes well. I will upgrade components on the Cdale eventually moving them to a Calfee.
I have an Alpha Q Z-Pro fork on my single Calfee. According to Alpha it has an unlimited stack height. I think I'll see what Alpha Q says about using that fork on a tandem.
Again, thanks everybody.
JayB
Would the Alpha Q X-2 carbon tandem fork with carbon steerer as supplied on some new Co-Motion tandems fit your bike?
TandemGeek
Would the Alpha Q X-2 carbon tandem fork with carbon steerer as supplied on some new Co-Motion tandems fit your bike?
It would, but it would lower the front bottom bracket height by ~1.3cm and increase the steering trail... which wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if the next tandem will be a Calfee, as Craig uses very aggressive steering geometry on par with Co-Motion's racing tandems.
A stock Cannondale tandem fork uses 53mm of rake, whereas the Alpha Q X2 uses 44mm (noting they did away with the 48mm model last year; go figure). The reduced rake is somewhat off-set by the X2's shorter fork legs: ~374mm compared to most tandem forks which use between 390mm and 400mm. The shorter legs lower the front end of the tandem which increases the effective head & seat tube angles a bit.
JayB
TandemGeek,
Hmmm, I think I've got that. So how would the Co-Mo Alpha's handling differ from Co-Mo's WoundUp fork, which I see they are still offering on some of their models?
bikeriderdave
With a low spoke count wheels, you will need to pay attention to spoke tension every 300 miles or so. I check mine by the pitch (sound) of the spoke and take them to the shop to be checked by a tensiometer (sp). I have had no problems but I am very disciplined on this matter. We weigh 285.
Not all low-spoke wheels require as much attention or maintenance as Santana prescribes for the Shimano wheels. The 145 mm over-locknut options (Rolf and Bontrager) that fit T Underhill's Cannondale seem to be much less problematic. I can't vouch personally for the Rolfs, but our Bontragers came with no warning to check tension periodically yet remain perfectly tight and true after a year of use.
TandemGeek
So how would the Co-Mo Alpha's handling differ from Co-Mo's WoundUp fork, which I see they are still offering on some of their models?
Since I haven't ridden a Co-Motion with an Alpha Q I'd be hard pressed to offer an objective comparison.
Analytically, the geometry is "close" once you factor in the X2's shorter fork legs:
Alpha Q X2 = 41mm or 44mm rake with 374mm legs: not sure which rake they're using.
Wound-Up = 45mm rake with 389mm legs.
The Wound-Up is a stiffer fork than the Alpha Q, but it's also a bit heavier, so that would also factor into how a given Co-Motion frame would handle using one or the other fork. Both of our road tandems have Alpha Q X2s but, at 280lbs, we're hardly pushing the design limits and the amount of deflection that I can detect is neglible. TandemRacer and his stoker, who previously trained and raced their Litespeed Taliani on an Alpha Q X2 for several years, replaced the X2 with a Wound-Up last season and noted the added stiffness and the more correct fork length both had a positive impact on the handling of their tandem. Their Alpha Q X2 was an older model that they replaced after it developed a stress crack at the junction of the steerer and crown.
Perhaps TandemRacer will see this and add some first hand feedback, or maybe the "oldbikeracer" (aka Kent from Co-Mo) will weigh in here with some insider info and test ride feedback and I'm sure he and others have done quite a bit of back-to-back test rides on both forks.
cornucopia72
Not all low-spoke wheels require as much attention or maintenance as Santana prescribes for the Shimano wheels. The 145 mm over-locknut options (Rolf and Bontrager) that fit T Underhill's Cannondale seem to be much less problematic. I can't vouch personally for the Rolfs, but our Bontragers came with no warning to check tension periodically yet remain perfectly tight and true after a year of use.
We have a set of Shimano sweet-16. The first 500 miles were a nightmare. We bought them from Mark at Precision Tandems and he did not warn us of shimano's recommendation about initial periodic tension check. Mark was not aware of Shimano's recs. It was a blessing in disguise!!!.
We bought a truing stand and a tension gauge. Since then I built my first 48 spoke wheel which rode pretty good and stayed true on the triple. Building wheels can be dangerous to your health... it is extremely addictive!!!
After the initial problems and once we figured that a tension of 32 on the park's gauge worked fine on the shimano's wheels, we have had absolutely zero problems with the wheels and after close to 5,000 miles, we love them. We have ridden over cattle guards at high speeds and the wheels take the abuse just fine.
JayB
Thanks. Informative as always! Alpha is all carbon whereas WoundUp is carbon with metal crown and metal inside the carbon steerer, right?
TandemGeek
Alpha is all carbon whereas WoundUp is carbon with metal crown and metal inside the carbon steerer, right?
Both the Alpha Q X2 and the original carbon/aluminum Wound-Up forks use composite steerers with an aluminum insert bonded inside the steerer tube.
Wound-Up introduced a new all carbon fork for tandems about a year ago that replaced the aluminum crown with one fabricated from carbon and also featured disc brake tabs. I believe it is called the 'Duo' or something like that. My guess is, it too would use an aluminum insert in the carbon steerer.
JayB
TandemGeek,
Interesting. I didn't know about the WoundUp all carbon tandom fork. Couldn't see it on their website - I think WoundUp is advancedcomposites.com. Do you know any tandem makers who spec the all carbon WoundUp?
TandemGeek
Couldn't see it on their website - I think WoundUp is advancedcomposites.com. Do you know any tandem makers who spec the all carbon WoundUp?
Co-Motion and Advanced Composite's Wound-Up sports division developed the all-carbon "Duo" from 2003 - 2005, and began offering it for sale in 2006. I would assume that any authorized Wound-Up dealer would be able to offer the fork so long as it remains in production: just not sure how much demand there is for something that specialized. I would think that Co-Motion would offer the fork given their investment of time in the development, and I believe that AriZona Tandems lists the Duo as an option.
T_Underhill
I emailed AlphaQ the following question. See the response below.
To: technical1@alphaqbike.com
Subject: Tandem fork Q
Can the Z-Pro fork be used in a tandem application? I have a situation with a Cannondale tandem where I need to use a tall stack. More than the 4cm recommended for the X2 tandem fork.
I use the Z-Pro on my single and it seems incredibly strong. Possibly as strong as the X2.
You can use more than 4cm on the tandem, same as Zpro. It uses the same steerer. The tandem fork is stronger than the Z-Pro.
At 330lbs, either fork is strong enough. You could use either one.
. More than the 4cm recommended for the X2 tandem fork.
Where did you come up with the 4cm stack height on the True Temper Alpha Q X2's steerer tube?
Reynolds' uses this as a spec on their 1 1/8" forks per the FAQ that I shared in responding to your first questions...
Regardless, good to see Bert is still at True Temper: nice guy. Let me pull a Rudy here an drift into some anecdotals... after folding over the aluminum drop-outs on my first Alpha Q I was steered to Bert and one of their other tech center guys to see what they could do. Turns out that the tips are easily replaced for about $25/ea. While I had them on the phone we talked about their testing protocol and how many cycles they put the forks through: Yikes!!! They test the bejeezus out of their forks (pulled from the initial run and randomly selected from production lots) and grossly exceed all industry standards for fatigue, yield strength, etc... Great product, just wish the legs were a bit longer and I'm still a bit miffed that they eliminated the 48mm rake model since that's what our travel tandem was built around.
T_Underhill
I was confused when I wrote the email to True Temper. I got the Reynolds fork stack heght recomendation mixed up with the Alpha Q.
But it does look like I can use the Z-Pro fork, with all the steerer you could ever want, on my tandem. That gives me another option at least.