But I don’t think I was wrong. Tell me what you think. I can take it. Here is the story.
During the Solvang Century Tie and I are riding on a road with climbing in a two man pace line with me in the lead. There is no wind at this point. This road offers a wide bicycle path meaning it can handle two abreast. You can see ahead for a mile or more. There are four TNT riders in a pace line on the left side of the bike path and the right side is wide open and clear ahead. Tie and I are coming upon them faster then they are going and they hold there position. I don’t recall if there was traffic. But instead of calling on your left or having to move out into traffic I take the straight path I am in which is on there right. I call out for each of the four riders “on your right” as we easily move pass them. No rider made any changes in positions or panicked. It was obvious the second TNT rider was not happy about my move on the right. Statement was made but no big deal. So what do you think? Should I have handled this in another way? Was I wrong?
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Were you wrong? No. If they didn't want to be passed on the right they should ride to the right. It probably has more to do with you passing them then which side you passed. You gave the appropriate "on your right" call. They held the line. Where's the problem?
Grumpy Pig
Statement was made but no big deal. So what do you think? Should I have handled this in another way? Was I wrong?Yes. You should have whacked him across the knee with your pump and told him to shut up.
merider1
I rarely pass on the right as it is just dangerous, period. I realize you would have gone out in traffic to pass on the left, but that is normal protocol and you are out riding on roads where riders normally pass on the left into the lane. Had the TNT riders been four abreast, then they would clearly be in the wrong, but if they were in a single file pace line, they shouldn't have to worry about riders passing on their right. You announced it, so at least you warned them, but I can tell you I've chased a rider down and chewed him up one wall and down the other for passing on my right and scaring me - although I didn't panic or show shock while he did it (but he did almost take my friend out as he ran out of shoulder and pulled in on my friend's front wheel). In that case, however, he didn't announce it at all and it wasn't a wide bike lane. Personally, I just don't understand why folks on an organized rides have to hammer through (not suggesting that you did, Mark!) and beat some personal time. I've seen all sorts of near mishaps (and some actual accidents! :eek: - last year on Cruisin the Canejo two riders sprinting up a hill trying to race two other riders crossed into the left lane and took out an older man who was just out for his normal ride, and he was hurt pretty badly), and for the life of me, I don't understand why that is necessary.
My two cents...:o
MarkAJ
Yes. You should have whacked him across the knee with your pump and told him to shut up.
Damn Grumpy! It was a she.
Indolent58
Yes. You should have whacked him across the knee with your pump and told him to shut up.
Comments like that belong in Advocacy and Safety. We are supposed to be mellow here in SoCal. :D
merider1
Were you wrong? No. If they didn't want to be passed on the right they should ride to the right. It probably has more to do with you passing them then which side you passed. You gave the appropriate "on your right" call. They held the line. Where's the problem?
I don't agree. Maybe they pulled to the left as they saw debris or rough road on the right. Never assume. Announce "on the left" and give them a chance to get over to the right.
Dubbayoo
It's been so long since I passed anyone I don't recall what I did. If they knew you were back there they should have moved right, but you should have waited until you were sure they were CHOOSING not to move right before passing.
I do require video evidence of merider chewing anybody out. :)
BigSean
But I don’t think I was wrong. Tell me what you think. I can take it. Here is the story.
During the Solvang Century Tie and I are riding on a road with climbing in a two man pace line with me in the lead. There is no wind at this point. This road offers a wide bicycle path meaning it can handle two abreast. You can see ahead for a mile or more. There are four TNT riders in a pace line on the left side of the bike path and the right side is wide open and clear ahead. Tie and I are coming upon them faster then they are going and they hold there position. I don’t recall if there was traffic. But instead of calling on your left or having to move out into traffic I take the straight path I am in which is on there right. I call out for each of the four riders “on your right” as we easily move pass them. No rider made any changes in positions or panicked. It was obvious the second TNT rider was not happy about my move on the right. Statement was made but no big deal. So what do you think? Should I have handled this in another way? Was I wrong?
I did it a few times too. They seemed to have a habit of riding far left right against the road. I usually pass on the left then move right. I say you were right to do it the way you did. I prefer passing on the left but not all riders know or follow the unwritten rules.:rolleyes:
Pedal Wench
Sorry to barge into your forum (southeasterner here) but I gotta speak up. It's the responsibility of the overtaking party to wait until it's safe to pass. By passing on their right, if an obstacle or something came up while you were side by side, you've now forced them out into traffic, for which they might not have been prepared. If you passed on their left, you would have looked behind, waited for a break in traffic and passed them safely.
jpconrad
I rarely pass on the right as it is just dangerous, period. I realize you would have gone out in traffic to pass on the left, but that is normal protocol and you are out riding on roads where riders normally pass on the left into the lane. Had the TNT riders been four abreast, then they would clearly be in the wrong, but if they were in a single file pace line, they shouldn't have to worry about riders passing on their right. You announced it, so at least you warned them, but I can tell you I've chased a rider down and chewed him up one wall and down the other for passing on my right and scaring me - although I didn't panic or show shock while he did it (but he did almost take my friend out as he ran out of shoulder and pulled in on my friend's front wheel). In that case, however, he didn't announce it at all and it wasn't a wide bike lane. Personally, I just don't understand why folks on an organized rides have to hammer through (not suggesting that you did, Mark!) and beat some personal time. I've seen all sorts of near mishaps (and some actual accidents! :eek: - last year on Cruisin the Canejo two riders sprinting up a hill trying to race two other riders crossed into the left lane and took out an older man who was just out for his normal ride, and he was hurt pretty badly), and for the life of me, I don't understand why that is necessary.
My two cents...:o
There's a protocol? :p
Mark, did they see you coming up from behind and still not yield?
merider1
Sorry to barge into your forum (southeasterner here) but I gotta speak up. It's the responsibility of the overtaking party to wait until it's safe to pass. By passing on their right, if an obstacle or something came up while you were side by side, you've now forced them out into traffic, for which they might not have been prepared. If you passed on their left, you would have looked behind, waited for a break in traffic and passed them safely.
+1 John - this is the protocol to which I refer...:p I just think it's safer to announce, wait and then pass. Most riders WILL move to the right, even if you have to announce it a couple of times. If they don't, well then tell them off after you've safely passed them if you feel the need, but why risk anyone being injured. Also, something so many riders forget it's shocking - just because YOU may be an experienced rider with superior bike handling skills, please do NOT assume others are. Is it worth it to be taken out by a less experienced rider just for your right away and extra second time lead while out pacing?
roadfix
I think calling out "on yo left" and having them veer to the right as you passed them on the left would have been ideal. But, on the other hand, since they were in a uniform paceline with enough space on their right side, having another paceline, be them single or double, with proper calling, shouldn't have been a concern for everyone involved in both parties. This sort of maneuvering happens all the time and should be expected from time to time.
MarkAJ
There's a protocol? :p
Mark, did they see you coming up from behind and still not yield?
I can not say if they saw us coming, but I can say they had a lot of time to see us or move to the right. We were not in a crowd of riders. I remember the road being very smooth at this point. Stuff like this is why I use a rear view mirror attached to my glasses. I like to know what is going on back there.
jpconrad
The protocol only works if both people as abiding it. Maybe a slow moving paceline in a large event should have better awareness of what's happening behind them, too. ;)
merider1
I do require video evidence of merider chewing anybody out. :)
I don't have one, I'm afraid, but it would be entertaining I'm sure. I actually scared a man who was at least 5 inches taller than me and double my size. I didn't curse him at all (not my style although from time to time I slip and call careless riders A holes) but I did explain to him how he could have seriuosly injured my friend, me and himself. He would have been a complete idiot (and looked like one) had he argued back, especially considering we were at a rest stop and there were tons of riders around us.
ronjon10
If there was room for you to pass on the right, there was room for them to move over to the right. They should've been there. I rode with TnT, and we were well instructed to stay as far to the right as safely possible. Believe me, I feel safer the further left I ride, and was told to move to the right several times when I was leading pacelines during tnt traning rides.
In a group ride like that, or even on a MUP, I don't really see the big deal about passing on the right if the way ahead is clear and your intentions are announced and understood.
merider1
The protocol only works if both people as abiding it. Maybe a slow moving paceline in a large event should have better awareness of what's happening behind them, too. ;)
Whether it works or not does not mean it isn't protocol. Which makes my point all the more...if others aren't abiding by protocol, why not play it safe and be on the defensive and not the offensive? Thus, passing on the left when it is safe to do so after announcing "on yo left." :D
scvroadie
I don't agree. Maybe they pulled to the left as they saw debris or rough road on the right. Never assume. Announce "on the left" and give them a chance to get over to the right.
Overall, I agree with M.E. If I am to be passed, I expect to passed on the left. When I am passed on the right it is unexpected. Not really a problem for me if it is announced, but if its not announced, then it is a surprise and a rider's reaction to it can be dangerous.
The reaction from some TnT groups is to be expected. For 12-16 weeks prior to a ride; with their clinics and training they are instructed as to the proper etiquette for riding. Like most people that learn something new, when someone does not follow the rules, they get bent out of shape. I can remember one group a couple of years ago that I passed on the left and every person chastized me that I did not say on your left. Excuse me, I had a mouthfull of Cliff Bar. :p :p
It's interesting how the different chapters of TnT are trained. In the last 6 months I have been in two centurys, Solvang & Tucson, where there are lots of different TnT chapters riding. Some of the chapters ride in pacelines, that are done they way they should be. Others, who knows. I noticed Saturday, the North Texas chapter, consistently riding 2 or 3 abreast, so that there was no way to go around them accept to check traffic behind you and pass on the left of the white line.
roadfix
I think in California, like most western states, it is permissible to pass on the right...:p :D
jpconrad
Whether it works or not does not mean it isn't protocol. Which makes my point all the more...if others aren't abiding by protocol, why not play it safe and be on the defensive and not the offensive? Thus, passing on the left when it is safe to do so after announcing "on yo left." :D
Mark, did the paceline move to the right after you passed them?
Mo'Phat
I was passed on the right by a runner today...
I was running, too.
It was still odd to be passed on the right, as I just didn't expect it at all. If I had a frame pump handy, I'd have tripped her.
;)
merider1
I think in California, like most western states, it is permissible to pass on the right...:p :D
Permissible perhaps...safe, no. You guys have ridden on the roads out here and know that debris can pop up at any moment - even on a clean road! When we road the Santa Barbara Century, if I recall, the reason Bill went down is that I did not see a "gray" wire in the road less than a foot ahead of me and jerked in the pace line, thus causing George to throw on his brakes and Bill rear-ended him! Had a car been in the lane, Bill could have been seriously hurt! :eek: You should not assume that a road is clear of debris ever, IMHO. Therefore, I'm inclined to pass safely on the left giving wide girth to the riders on the right in case one of them pulls to the left suddenly due to unforeseen debris or holes in the road.
MarkAJ
Mark, did the paceline move to the right after you passed them?
No they did not. I checked with my rear view mirror. Like I said there were no other riders at the moment so they had no reason to other than protocol.
jpconrad
I like riding to the left, half the time I ride in the traffic lanes, but when I do this I also make sure to pay attention to traffic and what's behind me. I only do this, however, if I have a mirror.
rule
I have seen some psychotically bad rally crashes that all boiled down to somebody attempting to pass another group by coming through on their right. But I agree, it really doesn't sound like they should have been there anyway. That alone tells me to watch my ass around any such paceline.
The only thing that I have had good luck with in this situation is to pull up to the pace line and call out, "Is it okay to pass on your right, or do you guys want to move over so that we can pass on your left? Your call." Then let them decide. If they are jerks about it or just can't figure out how to ride without being dangerous, eff 'em. I'll just thank them and move on by, kind of like playing through a larger, slower group in golf.
Most of the time using this approach the typical response has been an offer for us to sit in with them for a while, and found out that it was a group of riders who really didn't know any better. It's always an option to sit in and offer them a couple of suggestions on how they should be riding. I have made some nice cycling friends that way, and more times than not that has included some drop-dead gorgious cycling babes.
roadfix
"Is it okay to pass on your right, or do you guys want to move over so that we can pass on your left? Your call."
Can this be condensed down to like 3 words? :D
merider1
Hmmm...methinks it interesting that a lot of lurker loos are posting in here. I kind of dig it. Maybe we should resurrect the Lurker thread...:D By the way, boys, thanks for peeking in. We welcome it as we get tired of just each other from time to time (or I should say, they get tired of me from time to time. :p)
roadfix
Ok.....every Thursday should be "un-lurking" day......:)
merider1
Ok.....every Thursday should be "un-lurking" day......:)
I'm pulling the thread out so maybe a few can check in. :D
BikeWNC
I don't agree. Maybe they pulled to the left as they saw debris or rough road on the right. Never assume. Announce "on the left" and give them a chance to get over to the right.
I see your point here. That would be the best way to handle the situation.
Indolent58
Most of the time using this approach the typical response has been an offer for us to sit in with them for a while, and found out that it was a group of riders who really didn't know any better. It's always an option to sit in and offer them a couple of suggestions on how they should be riding. I have made some nice cycling friends that way, and more times than not that has included some drop-dead gorgious cycling babes.
This is brilliant. Downright fabulous.
Dispense with all the dry, preachy lectures. The real reason to adhere to proper cycling protocols is that it will help you get hot babes.
This is an "easy sell" compared to all that boring safety hoo-ha.
merider1
I see your point here. That would be the best way to handle the situation.
I like a man who's agreeable (and complies). ;) So, what's your name?:D
merider1
This is brilliant. Downright fabulous.
Dispense with all the dry, preachy lectures. The real reason to adhere to proper cycling protocols is that it will help you get hot babes.
This is an "easy sell" compared to all that boring safety hoo-ha.
Yeah, try it and tell us how it works for you. :rolleyes: :p ;)
1955
I was passed on the right by a runner today...
I was running, too.
It was still odd to be passed on the right, as I just didn't expect it at all. If I had a frame pump handy, I'd have tripped her.
;)
LOL
Indolent58
Yeah, try it and tell us how it works for you. :rolleyes: :p ;)
I never said it would work - just that it is an easy sell. :D
You can sell almost anything on this basis - spray on hair for example
http://www.taylorgifts.com/IMAGES/P14154B.JPG
1955
Can this be condensed down to like 3 words? :D
Heck...two words. Move over!
Extort
http://www.performancebike.com/product_images/250/37-6653-NCL-FRONT.jpg
Ding! DING! and then if that does not work simply say 'get the **** over!'
Technically the OP was wrong, but so was the paceline participants. I always preach that people should only pass on the left, because that is exactly how it should work when people are on the road, and this applies to ALL traffic. Slower traffic should stay to the right. Unfortunately, people do not know how to operate a motor vehicle in a courteous and responsible manner, so why am I not surprised that they cannot operate a bicycle?
I know that during the MS ride and the Palm Springs ride I was forced to weave all over the road because people do not understand that they need to stay right, but then again everyone thinks that they are the fastest person on the road or they think that they can police the behavior of others.
And ME, I understand your statement about how people should not try to make organized rides a hammerfest, but what if a sustained 24MPH pace is how that person likes to ride? No one should be denied the opportunity to ride in the way that most pleases them.
merider1
And ME, I understand your statement about how people should not try to make organized rides a hammerfest, but what if a sustained 24MPH pace is how that person likes to ride? No one should be denied the opportunity to ride in the way that most pleases them.
I think it's safe to say that if you want to ride that pace in Solvang on narrow country roads, then do it without 1,000+ other riders out there who are trying to enjoy their ride. Organized centuries are not races and they are not meant for people to try their personal best records in most cases (unless specified as such - I think the doubles are different and it's safe to assume that most folks are not out riding them leisurely). But Solvang, Cool Breeze, Lighthouse, Wildflower...and the list goes on...draws riders who shouldn't have to worry about those who wish to do it in sub 4 hours. If riders want to do that, either ride the roads and routes that are accessible to them year round without signing up for a popular century to do it or join a club that has strong pacelines where they can fill the need to hammer all they want.
Again...IMHO...
Indolent58
And ME, I understand your statement about how people should not try to make organized rides a hammerfest, but what if a sustained 24MPH pace is how that person likes to ride?
They should still refrain from riding that fast because doing so makes me feel weak and inadequate.
jpconrad
At Death Valley some people were cruising along at 7 miles an hour. If you're going 15, 7 is pretty hard to sit behind.
magicant
Just take along a karaoke machine and start singing. They'll move. Or stop. Or quit entirely. Whatever gets them out of the way.
voltman
Is there a list of organized centuries approved for paceline/fast riding somewhere?
scvroadie
I think it's safe to say that if you want to ride that pace in Solvang on narrow country roads, then do it without 1,000+ other riders out there who are trying to enjoy their ride. Organized centuries are not races and they are not meant for people to try their personal best records in most cases But Solvang, Cool Breeze, Lighthouse, Wildflower...and the list goes on...draws riders who shouldn't have to worry about those who wish to do it in sub 4 hours.
M.E.
I usually don't disagree with you much, but in this instance I have to. As long as a rider rides safely, it doesn't matter what their pace is. As Extort stated "slower traffic should stay to the right". I think a greater percentage of faster riders ride more safely, than slower riders. That is probably attributable to those riders having more experience (time in the saddle, mileage, etc.)
If you would have been riding Solvang Saturday, I think you would have to agree. A lot of slower riders were the ones, riding 2 or 3 abreast, talking to their friends, speed about 10-12mph, like they were out for a Sunday drive. These riders are a hinderance to all the other riders. My pace was 18-20 on the flats, slower on the hills and with the headwinds. Not a PR or race pace, but still faster than the majority of riders. From what you are saying I should slow my pace down to ride at their speed. As long as I am riding safely, NO WAY!!!!!!
When I was passed by faster riders or pacelines, the usually announced their presence. It was the rare exception that anybody faster passed on the right.
1955
I think it's safe to say that if you want to ride that pace in Solvang on narrow country roads, then do it without 1,000+ other riders out there who are trying to enjoy their ride. Organized centuries are not races and they are not meant for people to try their personal best records in most cases (unless specified as such - I think the doubles are different and it's safe to assume that most folks are not out riding them leisurely). But Solvang, Cool Breeze, Lighthouse, Wildflower...and the list goes on...draws riders who shouldn't have to worry about those who wish to do it in sub 4 hours. If riders want to do that, either ride the roads and routes that are accessible to them year round without signing up for a popular century to do it or join a club that has strong pacelines where they can fill the need to hammer all they want.
Again...IMHO...
I know this is your opinion, BUTT I would no more expect OCRoady, Pico or Extort (I use these guys as examples because they just blow me away with ease) to ride at my pace than than I would sit behind someone on there first ride doing 7mph. Just because it's an "organized ride" doesn't mean you have to go as slow as the slowest rider in the event. Somewhere there are even riders that would blow away my three examples, it's all very relative out there as far as what is "fast". I would be willing to bet that there is someone somewhere out there that even thinks I'm fast. JMHO
Grumpy Pig
Aren't some organized centuries timed?
magicant
Did you know that the world record for riding a bicycle backwards while playing the violin is 36 miles in 5 hrs. 9 min.?
Did you know that the world record for riding a bicycle backwards while playing the violin is 36 miles in 5 hrs. 9 min.?
http://www.funny-world-records.com/bicycle-start.jpgWhere's your helmet?
merider1
I know this is your opinion, BUTT I would no more expect OCRoady, Pico or Extort (I use these guys as examples because they just blow me away with ease) to ride at my pace than than I would sit behind someone on there first ride doing 7mph.
If you would have been riding Solvang Saturday, I think you would have to agree. A lot of slower riders were the ones, riding 2 or 3 abreast, talking to their friends, speed about 10-12mph, like they were out for a Sunday drive. These riders are a hinderance to all the other riders. My pace was 18-20 on the flats, slower on the hills and with the headwinds. Not a PR or race pace, but still faster than the majority of riders. From what you are saying I should slow my pace down to ride at their speed. As long as I am riding safely, NO WAY!!!!!!
I'm not implying that you have to ride the pace of these riders nor am I implying that these riders are safer riders, more skilled riders, riders who follow the rules or protocol or anything else. I'm trying to make the point that if you are in such a hurry that you cannot yell out "on your left," look out to make sure no traffic is on your left, and then pass the riders (yes, many of them are idiots, wearing earplugs to Ipods in one or both ears, riding 2-4 abreast, yaking away paying no attention to squat) in a safe manner, then perhaps you shouldn't ride organized centuries...for YOUR OWN SAFETY let alone others. :D
Extort
I'm not implying that you have to ride the pace of these riders nor am I implying that these riders are safer riders, more skilled riders, riders who follow the rules or protocol or anything else. I'm trying to make the point that if you are in such a hurry that you cannot yell out "on your left," look out to make sure no traffic is on your left, and then pass the riders (yes, many of them are idiots, wearing earplugs to Ipods in one or both ears, riding 2-4 abreast, yaking away paying no attention to squat) in a safe manner, then perhaps you shouldn't ride organized centuries...for YOUR OWN SAFETY let alone others. :D
I'll agree with that... except the yelling 'on the left' part cause I just wanna ring that bell