Foo - Should I get this car?

A friend of mine just offered me his car for only 200 dollars. He is getting rid of it because he and his wife are expecting a baby next month (this guy is in his 30's). It's a 1993 Honda accord, he says it is the most reliable car he has ever owned.

I've seen this car, I've actually been in the car once. DIdn't seem like there was anything wrong with it. My only concern is that it has 272,000 miles. He says it runs fine though, here is the description he gave me:

"It always gets 31/32 miles per gallon, 450 miles to the tank. It's a 5 speed manual. It has 4 good tires on it, I had done a front brake job about a year and a half ago, it has a new windshield in it, and for a 1993 it only has a little rust. It has power windows, power locks, power mirrors, AC - and amazingly the original radio. I've driven it for the last 7 years, and it has been the most relible car I've ever owned. The exhaust should be good for another year. The clutch has never really been an issue - it is still original!?!? That may be a problem at some point, but for $200..."

But he did a Kelly bluebook value check on it, for it's specifications, it should be $1090. In fact, here is the link:
http://www.kbb.com/KBB/UsedCars/PricingReport.aspx?ManufacturerId=18&YearId=1993&VehicleClass=UsedCar&VehicleId=My8xNy8yMDA3fDEwNTk5&PriceType=Trade-In&ModelId=122&Mileage=272000&SelectionHistory=10599%7c3056%7c03079%7c0%7c0%7c381895%7ctrue%7c381896%7ctrue%7c381901%7ctrue&Condition=Fair&QuizConditions=0

My inexperienced self says that for 200 dollars, I should snag it. If the clutch is an issue, surely it won't cost 800 dollars to replace. SO, I am still ahead in that regard, I think. Again, I have no experience buying a car, so that is why I ask. My friend is a mechanical engineer, so I know he maintained the car himself for the most part, and I do believe he knows what he is doing. It passed the last state inspection alright.

So, what do you think?

Buy it. You could easily get another 30-40k miles out of it.

I would buy it in a heart beat. Drive it until it breaks down then junk it. Then again, I just spent close to $200 on bottle cages. :rolleyes:

So my instincts were correct! Yay!
Now, what will be the first thing that will go? Just so I can prepare for a purchase of that if need be. I won't necessarily install any replacement parts 'till they go, I just want to know what I will need so I can plan accordingly. I know HOnda is a pretty reliable name, I've heard of people getting 300k miles easily.

My parents have been pushing me to learn and drive a manual for my first car, so this is certainly a good one.

Take It Now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't Sit In This Thread Any Longer...go Buy It Already!!!!!!

I'd buy it. A clutch on that sort of car shouldn't be too expensive, somewhere around $500ish, maybe less.

Chris

Take It Now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't Sit In This Thread Any Longer...go Buy It Already!!!!!!
I just called my parents, they said to wait until they get home and we can look at it. So the clutch is the first thing to go? How hard is hte clutch to install? Just need a general time frame so I can calculate labor cost

So my instincts were correct! Yay!
Now, what will be the first thing that will go? Just so I can prepare for a purchase of that if need be. I won't necessarily install any replacement parts 'till they go, I just want to know what I will need so I can plan accordingly. I know HOnda is a pretty reliable name, I've heard of people getting 300k miles easily.

My parents have been pushing me to learn and drive a manual for my first car, so this is certainly a good one.

My Buick had almost 300k miles when I sold it (81 Regal)....any car can be reliable so long as it's taken care of....and in the case of my Buick, sometimes even if it's getting the crap beat out of it.

Keep in mind money for tires, oil changes, swapping out your coolant and radiator hoses/thermostat, wiper blades, etc. Anything that is fluid or rubber tends to need periodical inspection or replacement. Also keep in mind you may need a new clutch sooner or later, since you are just learning...Hondas have extremely light clutches, so it's very easy to burn one out if your foot happens to be constnatly resting on the pedal.

Most rubber and fluids are very easy to replace yourself (with exception to tires...have a pro do it). Clutches can be easy, or difficult to replace depending on the way the car is laid out, and what it will take to get it out.

I had a 1987 Honda Accord I replaced in 2004 that was still going strong. I only replaced it because I wanted something with less rust (and that was both a station wagon and German).

That car is just getting broken in! Buy it already and forget about obsessing over the clutch.

Clutchs aren't the easiest things to replace, but since you probably don't need to rely on the car for every day trans, it'll be good experience replacing it yourself.

if the car runs and drives, can't go wrong for $200

I'd also be cautious on sinking a lot of money in, do the repairs yourself and save.

I use eBay for damn near everything, but I have never touched eBay motors. How is ebay for a source of parts? lol, I know this is going to irritate but I found a clutch on ebay, will this fit the accord if need be?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Clutch-90-91-92-93-94-95-96-97-98-99-ACCORD_W0QQitemZ290084577995QQcategoryZ33730QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

Is that what I need?

Clutchs aren't the easiest things to replace, but since you probably don't need to rely on the car for every day trans, it'll be good experience replacing it yourself.

if the car runs and drives, can't go wrong for $200

I'd also be cautious on sinking a lot of money in, do the repairs yourself and save.
I plan on doing as much as I can in regards to repairs. I know I am mechanically inclined, and my fathers got tons of tools since his hobby is diesel mechanics. He still fixes my moms gas, VW golf though. If the work is something that has to be done with the car on a the jack, suspended several feet for access underneath, I'm afraid I don't have that facility.

Hmm, what about this one?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/90-91-92-93-94-95-96-97-01-HONDA-ACCORD-CLUTCH-KIT_W0QQitemZ150010667012QQcategoryZ33730QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

Question, when they say "clutch kit", does that mean it includes everything you need for a replacement?
It appears that you can buy aftermarket stuff, different than stock. This is all new to me.

Hmm, what about this one?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/90-91-92-93-94-95-96-97-01-HONDA-ACCORD-CLUTCH-KIT_W0QQitemZ150010667012QQcategoryZ33730QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

Question, when they say "clutch kit", does that mean it includes everything you need for a replacement?
It appears that you can buy aftermarket stuff, different than stock. This is all new to me.

Why are you shopping for a clutch that doesn't need replacing? It doesn't sound like it needs replacing, it's just that it's old. The '87 I had was on its original clutch and was still going strong.

Why are you shopping for a clutch that doesn't need replacing? It doesn't sound like it needs replacing, it's just that it's old. The '87 I had was on its original clutch and was still going strong.
I am not looking to buy anything. I just want to become familiar with it all

Oh, what does he mean by "exhaust system"? Is that just the exhaust pipe corroding? Can this be repaired, perhaps with welding? Or does that have to simply be replaced all together?

"Clutch kit" typically refers to: clutch-disc, pressure-plate, throwout-bearing. Typically in these FWD cars, you have to remove the engine to R&R the clutch. Count on about $300-500 for the clutch-kit and about $1500-2000 in labour to do the job. Rear-wheel drive cars typically have more room and you can replace the clutch with leaving the engine in place. Of the Japanese cars, Hondas tend to cost the most to maintain. Toyota and Nissan costs a lot less for parts & labour. Although getting 300k+ miles out of these things aren't uncommon at all.

"Exhaust system" can mean everything starting at the exhaust-ports all the way to the muffler. So you're looking at the exhaust-headers, catalytic converter, 1 or 2 oxygen-sensors, tailpipe & muffler. Usuallly the only thing that goes wrong with an exaust is the O2-sensors go bad and needs replacing ($40-50/ea). The catalytic can fail over time and give you higher-than-allowed emissionss ($100-200 to replace). The header gaskets may leak over time ($5/ea).

the clutch "kits" come with everything usually. All it consists of is the Pressure plate, Clutch disc, bearing and Alignment tool. And it is a good idea to also get the flywheel resurfaced.

As far as the exhaust. They usually rust out and can not be fixed with welding as the metal gets in such bad shape any welder will just burn up the metal and make it fall apart.

I would buy the car but keep in mind some prices like

Clutch can be from $200-$400
Clutch install can be from $250 - $500
Exhaust can be from $150 - $500 installed

If you cant do it yourself or get stuck with some of the higher prices you could be spending over $1000. Since the car is so cheap do the maintenance yourself. As far as the exhaust if you are on a real tight budget and cant replace it there are ways around it. On one of my cars i hose clamped a cut up aluminum soda can over the holes and it was quiet again and held up for awhile.

Also dont worry about the mileage. I had a honda that i sold with 206,000 that was going strong. My friend also had a honda with 407,000 miles that ran great too.

"Clutch kit" typically refers to: clutch-disc, pressure-plate, throwout-bearing. Typically in these FWD cars, you have to remove the engine to R&R the clutch. Count on about $300-500 for the clutch-kit and about $1500-2000 in labour to do the job. Rear-wheel drive cars typically have more room and you can replace the clutch with leaving the engine in place. Of the Japanese cars, Hondas tend to cost the most to maintain. Toyota and Nissan costs a lot less for parts & labour. Although getting 300k+ miles out of these things aren't uncommon at all.

"Exhaust system" can mean everything starting at the exhaust-ports all the way to the muffler. So you're looking at the exhaust-headers, catalytic converter, 1 or 2 oxygen-sensors, tailpipe & muffler. Usuallly the only thing that goes wrong with an exaust is the O2-sensors go bad and needs replacing ($40-50/ea). The catalytic can fail over time and give you higher-than-allowed emissionss ($100-200 to replace). The header gaskets may leak over time ($5/ea).

:rolleyes: Are you serious? Im sure any company will tell you to remove the engine to replace a clutch. I have done a clutch on many different company FWD cars and not once did I have to remove the engine. Even if you did it would probably only make things easier. Labor is usually around $300-400 but can be a little more or less. Not $1500. If they try to charge you that laugh in there face and leave.

As far as Hondas costing the most to maintain what a joke. Honda cars have the biggest following out of any nissan, toyota, ect... Heres what I paid for an entire swap to put in a rolling chassis. you let me know how "expensive it is to own a honda". I got a complete B16a longblock with all sensors, S1 transmission, axles, shift linkage, engine mounts, ECU, exhaust header, full OEM gasket kit for the entire top end, 10 OEM honda oil filters, 2 quarts of tranny fluid, plus a lot more for $1000. Thats an entire swap to put in my car for $1000.

I also got a d16a6 for another car for $60. Yea thats not a typo. $60 for a longblock no transmission but a running engine.

If you get the car and it turns out it needs a clutch or anything and it might cost you a lot for everything. I would just go buy another complete engine and put that in for cheaper.

I just called my parents, they said to wait until they get home and we can look at it. So the clutch is the first thing to go? How hard is hte clutch to install? Just need a general time frame so I can calculate labor cost

I don't know how mechanically inclined you are, but, I have made numerous repairs by myself on various vehicles I've owned thanks to some help from this site: http://www.automotiveforums.com

There are also some good step by step instructions for all types of vehicles under the Vehicle Repair Guides Link here: http://www.autozone.com/repair_info.htm

Let me tell you something else too...you may get really really lucky and not have to dump a dime into this car...however...IMO, things like plugs/wires, belts/hoses, brake pads, a battery, alternator, or exhaust wear out and may need to be replaced at some point...sometimes sooner rather than later. Still, don't fret it...the money spent for that stuff is in no comparison to monthly payment for a new car. For $200, if its in good running condition, with no major mechanincal problems, and the frame in one piece this is a good deal. Even if you had to put in one major repair down the road ($300 to $600) its STILL a good deal.

Trust me...I've owned my share of $200-$1000 beater cars. :D

ALright I just asked my dad. He said that he had a clutch replaced like 6 or 7 years ago, and it cost about 300 parts and labor. That was for a 1985 Toyota Corolla. The mechanic we used said expect 200ish labor, he charges 55$/hour flat fee.

It sounds like this car will be mine this weekend

Thanks for the quick and helpful replies everybody

the clutch "kits" come with everything usually. All it consists of is the Pressure plate, Clutch disc, bearing and Alignment tool. And it is a good idea to also get the flywheel resurfaced.
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The flywheel resurfaced, can you explain this? I didn't even know there was a flywheel :lol:
Is this a steel machined flywheel that must be perfectly flat? Does resurfacing mean it needs to be faced again? I work at a machine shop, maybe I could face it at work if this is a lathe job. How much material is removed? A couple thousandths at most I would assume for a simply facing. Well I suppose the appropriate question is, how large is this flywheel? Weight isn't a big deal, but size is.

How much is insurance? Are you going to get your own policy?

How much is insurance? Are you going to get your own policy?
I am going through my parents policy. I have not looked at insurance yet, but I am preparing for 900. It might be less than that, I don't know. I understand my insurance company is fairly flexible with how you want to pay, so I may just pay for a whole years worth at once.

ALright I just asked my dad. He said that he had a clutch replaced like 6 or 7 years ago, and it cost about 300 parts and labor. That was for a 1985 Toyota Corolla. The mechanic we used said expect 200ish labor, he charges 55$/hour flat fee.

It sounds like this car will be mine this weekend

Wow, 55 bucks an hour?? does he work out of a barn? Usually mechanics charge in the $85 to $100 / hour range for labor alone, maybe thats just around here.

Find yourself a junkyard with lots of imports and you can usually get for free a lot of the small stuff you might have to buy down the road, like plugs, dist., stuff that'll nickel and dime you to death. Not saying this car isn't going to last, but with such a high mileage car, you never know.

It might be where you are. 85 dollars/hour seems pretty expensive. The only time I've ever seen a rate like that is at the VW dealer in connecticut, which was 81 or 89 dollars/hour.

Good luck with the "New to U" car! I drove a $175.00 car for 8 years and from Coast to coast! The only reason I replaced it was the car got so rusty that down in Tennessee, I had a southbound truck on US 127 blow my front fender off the truck when He passed me going in the opposite direction!:eek:

It was a 1976 Olds 98, and had over 500,000 miles on it when I retired it!

The exhaust should be good for another year.

You need whats called a straight pipe.:)

If it's got good brakes then YES! Just be prepared to sell the oscilliscope when your first repair bill comes along. I had a 1972 civic which was still going strong when I sold it at 300,000 km.

If it's got good brakes then YES! Just be prepared to sell the oscilliscope when your first repair bill comes along. I had a 1972 civic which was still going strong when I sold it at 300,000 km.

I think that since I will be able to work extra hours, I will have income to supplement. Also, I think most minor things can be done myself. O'scope not for sale!

Exhausts are fortunately pretty easy to install.

All you need is a good set of wrenches, some penetrating oil and reasonable upper body strength.

Pretty much anything behind the cat should be cake for you. The cat should be cake as well....headers, that's where it starts getting mildly annoying depending on the way the engine is layed out.

For parts, I would hit up teh autoparts store for hoses, tires, wipers, oil filters etc. Clutch should be left up to the mechanic, unless he allows you to bring a new unit in or asks you to get one (my old machanic in california did that...I got a reasonable discount for doing his footwork for him, great guy...I wish there was more mechanics like him).

Unless it's a super expensive part...I wouldn't even worry about Ebay...you are just as likely to find what you need at a self-service junkyard. Hell, that's where I got most of my performance parts back when I had any reasonably fast cars....went to the junkyard, and looked under the hood of anything with numbers or custom bodywork on it.

I just payed for it, it's mine now.

The crappy part is, I don't even have my license :lol:
I learned to drive with my parents, but never pursued it. And, I don't know how to drive a manual. So the car sits dormant for a while :(.

Hey at least you got a car for a great price.

I still remember my friend's old Escort....he paid $35 for it....all 2900lbs of rusted bodywork, falling apart inreior, and knocking engine. It was a POS....but that silly thing would not die...by the time he junked it, the odometer rolled over at least twice during the time he had it....and all he did was add oil when it got low, and fixed it when it broke down.

I think it actually broke down on him twice in the decade he owned it. Given teh car was the ugliest thing I have ever seen (one bored drunken night we spraypainteed blue and orange flames down it as a joke)....period, but it was very reliable.

manual is easy to drive. if you have any experience with motorcycles or dirtbikes, quads, ect it will be even easier. My first car was stick. At first you should just stay off of any major roads that may move to fast for a new stick driver. If you stay on the side streets youll be fine. Hardest thing will be stoppong and going from stop signs. Its easy to go and shift.

As far as the flywheel. yes they resurface it so it is perfectly smooth again and wont wear the clutch disc in any weird way. (the clutch disk "grabs" the flywheel thats connected to the engine and turns the transmission.) If the flywheel isnt resurfaced there is a chance that the clutch will wear faster or unevenly and it can cause clutch "chatter" which is when you let off the clutch pedal and the disc rubs the flywheel it sticks and slips making a loud chatter noise. As far as doing it yourself I am not 100% sure if you can/should. First ill give you the dimensions to see if it is even possible for you. My OEM clutch weighs 17 lbs and is roughly 10" diameter for the surface area that the clutch disc rubs and the whole thing is about 13" diameter. I only paid $50 to have mine resurfaced. Also dont forget that a car spins a fairly high rpm. My engine revs all the way to 8500rpms and many others go 5500+ so it must be balanced to not cause any vibrations.

Anyway congrats on the car. Any questions or anything feel free to pm me. And make sure you post pics!

Timing belt.
The clutch will let you know before it tanks.
The timing belt would be a surprise.

I have a 91 Accord with 270000 with the 5 speed. Fantastic car. Uses half quart of oil every 3000 miles. First thing you need to do is see when the timing belt was replaced last. Should be done approx every 70000 miles. If it breaks your engine is a very heavy paperweight. Check Constant velocity joint boots for leaks both near the differential and on the back of the wheel hub. Mine has the original clutch and is still clipping along. Just be gingerly with it and it will continue to give you good service no jackrabbit starts or tire smoking stuff. I have replaced the clutch in an Acura Integra (basically same car) With decent tools and a manual a jack and some jackstands its not too terrible of a job if your mechanically adept. Consider the money you'd spend in labor as your tool budget and you get to keep the tools when your done. With some care your Accord will last you for quite some time. Possibly one of the most reliable and low maintainence cars ever made.

Timing belt.
The clutch will let you know before it tanks.
The timing belt would be a surprise.

A timing belt will cost way to much money. He would have to do a timing belt, water pump and tensioner all at the same time. Parts are atleast $200 and labor is like $400. Run it till it dies. If it snaps you most likely would have gotten your $200 worth.

Some of you people are saying to much. He is not going to buy a car for $200 and then do

Exhaust for $200+
Timing belt/waterpump for $200+
clutch for $200+
cv joints
brakes

plus labor which is like a grand total of $1500+. Get the car and just go. Keep it running but i dontthink you need to go excessive on the preventative maintenance.

A timing belt will cost way to much money. He would have to do a timing belt, water pump and tensioner all at the same time. Parts are atleast $200 and labor is like $400. Run it till it dies. If it snaps you most likely would have gotten your $200 worth.

Replacing the timing belt is a relatively easy job. It's a good idea to replace the water pump while your in there but not absolutely essential unless it's leaking/noisy. Have done 4 timing belts between Acura's and Accords and never has the water pump really looked like it was near failure. Not doing essential work on an otherwise reliable car is kind of shortsighted.

Timing belt.
The clutch will let you know before it tanks.
The timing belt would be a surprise.

I replaced the timing belt on a Porsche 944, and it wasn't all that hard, especially with some very good help from danno. I imagine a Honda timing belt would be far easier.

I replaced the timing belt on a Porsche 944, and it wasn't all that hard, especially with some very good help from danno. I imagine a Honda timing belt would be far easier.Little tougher actually 944 engine runs north south accord is east west so you need to pull a motor mount. All in all about 5 6 hours with right tools.

It depends on the space in the engine compartment. On a 3.0l pontiac grand am (86) it was about a 3-4 hour job if you were able to move at a fast pace, and had good bolt/cable marking and organizing techniques.

Now, if you want nasty, it's a timing belt on a Pontiac Fiero that's had a 350 V-8 shoehorned into it. Have fun dropping the entire drivetrain to do it.

Here's an example of the mentioned Fiero...just this is a 406ci small block...freaking psycho :D....http://www.hotrodder.com/emarsh/

I replaced the timing belt on a Porsche 944, and it wasn't all that hard, especially with some very good help from danno. I imagine a Honda timing belt would be far easier.

Timings belts (or chains) can be easy or hard. On my 87 Plymouth sundance, probably about an hour of work. Timing chain on a small block chevy or ford will probably take any where between 2 and 5 hours depending on the number of accessories.

Okay, I just got a list of things replaced:

-Springs and shocks replaced 2 years ago
-Wheel bearing and tie rod replaced last year
-Front drive shafts 4 years ago
-Timing belt AND water pump replaced at same time, at 210k. So it has 62k on it since then, I believe 100k is when you should replace? Thats what the VW dealer told us at least with my parents VW's.
-Alternator and power steering pump replaced at 170k
-Front brake job 1.5 years ago
-Very recently replaced the slave cylinder on the clutch due to a slow leak

He did most of that stuff himself. He is pretty car savvy, he owns a Camaro from when he was in highschool, which he has refurbished and runs now quite well.

He said it could use a cap, rotor, plug wire, and plugs, as he did that about 40k miles ago. What are these things? He said he has been using Mobil 1 synthetic from the day he got it, and thinks that is why it lasted. I will continue to use htat, I've heard it's excellent stuff.
Anything

Okay, I just got a list of things replaced:

-Springs and shocks replaced 2 years ago
-Wheel bearing and tie rod replaced last year
-Front drive shafts 4 years ago
-Timing belt AND water pump replaced at same time, at 210k. So it has 62k on it since then, I believe 100k is when you should replace? Thats what the VW dealer told us at least with my parents VW's.
-Alternator and power steering pump replaced at 170k
-Front brake job 1.5 years ago
-Very recently replaced the slave cylinder on the clutch due to a slow leak

He did most of that stuff himself. He is pretty car savvy, he owns a Camaro from when he was in highschool, which he has refurbished and runs now quite well.

He said it could use a cap, rotor, plug wire, and plugs, as he did that about 40k miles ago. What are these things? He said he has been using Mobil 1 synthetic from the day he got it, and thinks that is why it lasted. I will continue to use htat, I've heard it's excellent stuff.
Anything


a rotor spins around underneath a cap, which is what the plug wires (4 for a 4 cyclinder) plug into, distributing the spark to each wire one at a time in a specific sequence. The plugs are at the other end of the wires and they screw into the cylinder head (basically the engine itself) and allow a spark to be created in the cylinder igniting the fuel/air mixture.

Everything together will probably run you 30-40 bucks

...

Now, if you want nasty, it's a timing belt on a Pontiac Fiero that's had a 350 V-8 shoehorned into it. Have fun dropping the entire drivetrain to do it.
...
Small block's a pushrod engine. No timing belt.

a rotor spins around underneath a cap, which is what the plug wires (4 for a 4 cyclinder) plug into, distributing the spark to each wire one at a time in a specific sequence. The plugs are at the other end of the wires and they screw into the cylinder head (basically the engine itself) and allow a spark to be created in the cylinder igniting the fuel/air mixture.

Everything together will probably run you 30-40 bucks
Oh, Cool. Is this a model specific item, or an easy to find autozone item?

Oh, Cool. Is this a model specific item, or an easy to find autozone item?
Autozone, Pep Boys, NAPA, any parts store, no worries!:D