sbhikes
03-18-07, 08:12 PM
Maybe THIS topic should be moved to the other forum. Any other forum, actually.
View Full Version : 3/15/2007 - Please read before posting in any A&S thread!
N_C
03-18-07, 09:13 PM
Maybe THIS topic should be moved to the other forum. Any other forum, actually.
No, this topic should be closed & removed. Or at the very least un-stuck from it's sticky position in the forum so it can fall to the bottom & off the page eventually. It never should have been posted. It should have needed to be posted in the first place.
No, this topic should be closed & removed. Or at the very least un-stuck from it's sticky position in the forum so it can fall to the bottom & off the page eventually. It never should have been posted. It should have needed to be posted in the first place.
chipcom
03-18-07, 09:24 PM
I think if would be better if it offered free pie.
deputyjones
03-18-07, 09:36 PM
I think if would be better if it offered free pie.
Free pie and the ability of everyone to act like adults without the need for 3rd party moderation. I prefer pumpkin ;)
Free pie and the ability of everyone to act like adults without the need for 3rd party moderation. I prefer pumpkin ;)
Bekologist
03-18-07, 09:45 PM
The Snohomish Pie Company has a LOT of bike parking out front.
donnamb
03-18-07, 10:21 PM
I would make my family lemon meringue recipe (tart!) and share if it would help calm things down any. :)
N_C
03-18-07, 10:31 PM
I would make my family lemon meringue recipe (tart!) and share if it would help calm things down any. :)
What if I don't like meringue? It upsets my stomach.
What if I don't like meringue? It upsets my stomach.
donnamb
03-18-07, 10:54 PM
Then I would highly recommend the Snohomish Pie Company. You can get any flavor you want there. :)
bragi
03-18-07, 11:36 PM
Free pie and the ability of everyone to act like adults without the need for 3rd party moderation. I prefer pumpkin ;)
You're so misguided. If you had any sense at all, you'd know that blueberry pie is the only pie...
You're so misguided. If you had any sense at all, you'd know that blueberry pie is the only pie...
Midnight Cyril
03-19-07, 12:49 AM
March 14 was pi day. Made me want a tart with a diameter of 1 foot and a circumference of 3.14... feet. A pi pie.
Daily Commute
03-19-07, 02:23 AM
. . . A certain poster really stunts and retards the Advocacy and Safety potential of this forum.
I agree, but I bet we disagree on which poster causes the most problems. ;)
Let's see how this new subforum works. And I hope the pie was good.
March 14 was pi day. Made me want a tart with a diameter of 1 foot and a circumference of 3.14... feet. A pi pie.
If you missed pi day, you can celebrate British pi day on 22/7. Never miss an excuse for pie. Why do I ride? So I can eat as much pie as I want.
I agree, but I bet we disagree on which poster causes the most problems. ;)
Let's see how this new subforum works. And I hope the pie was good.
March 14 was pi day. Made me want a tart with a diameter of 1 foot and a circumference of 3.14... feet. A pi pie.
If you missed pi day, you can celebrate British pi day on 22/7. Never miss an excuse for pie. Why do I ride? So I can eat as much pie as I want.
Brian
03-19-07, 05:32 AM
March 14 was pi day. Made me want a tart [snip]
'Nuff said.
'Nuff said.
sbhikes
03-19-07, 08:47 AM
Is Boston Creme a pie or a cake?
I like cherry pie. Boysenberry is good, too.
I like cherry pie. Boysenberry is good, too.
rando
03-19-07, 08:50 AM
chocolate pie, pecan pie, chess pie...mmmmm!
N_C
03-19-07, 08:50 AM
Personally I prefer cheescake over pie.
Brian
03-19-07, 04:04 PM
Personally I prefer cheescake over pie.
Hmmm. I never thought of you as a contrarian.
Hmmm. I never thought of you as a contrarian.
N_C
03-19-07, 04:11 PM
Hmmm. I never thought of you as a contrarian.
I should have said unless I'm riding RAGBRAI. Then it is all the pie I can eat. That may be why the rest of the year I prefer cheescake, I eat way to much pie on RAGBRAI.
I should have said unless I'm riding RAGBRAI. Then it is all the pie I can eat. That may be why the rest of the year I prefer cheescake, I eat way to much pie on RAGBRAI.
Bikepacker67
03-21-07, 02:13 PM
My question is, why the hell are folks complaining to the mods so much?
Nothing in A&S (that I've seen) is so abusive as to warrant tattle-tailing. People disagree, sometimes vehemently. So what? I like a stirred pot; otherwise all the scum floats to the top*.
* props to Edward Abbey (http://www.abbeyweb.net/) who originally quoted:
"Society is like a stew. If you don't stir it up every once in a while then a layer of scum floats to the top."
Nothing in A&S (that I've seen) is so abusive as to warrant tattle-tailing. People disagree, sometimes vehemently. So what? I like a stirred pot; otherwise all the scum floats to the top*.
* props to Edward Abbey (http://www.abbeyweb.net/) who originally quoted:
"Society is like a stew. If you don't stir it up every once in a while then a layer of scum floats to the top."
I-Like-To-Bike
03-21-07, 02:22 PM
My question is, why the hell are folks complaining to the mods so much?
IMO because several posters believe that their sacred cows should never be subjected to criticism, let alone gored. In their scheme, all such "disrespect" is considered a personal insult worthy of whining and complaining to the mods.
IMO because several posters believe that their sacred cows should never be subjected to criticism, let alone gored. In their scheme, all such "disrespect" is considered a personal insult worthy of whining and complaining to the mods.
Bikepacker67
03-21-07, 02:33 PM
IMO because several posters believe that their sacred cows should never be subjected to criticism, let alone gored. In their scheme, all such "disrespect" is considered a personal insult worthy of whining and complaining to the mods.
So you think HH is overflowing the complaint department?
I tend to disagree. He might be dogmatic, but he doesn't seem to be thin-skinned. (as evidenced by his tenacity)
So you think HH is overflowing the complaint department?
I tend to disagree. He might be dogmatic, but he doesn't seem to be thin-skinned. (as evidenced by his tenacity)
CyLowe97
03-21-07, 02:38 PM
Reading this thread confirms so many things I had been wondering about.
Good stuff!
Good stuff!
I-Like-To-Bike
03-21-07, 03:02 PM
So you think HH is overflowing the complaint department?
I tend to disagree. He might be dogmatic, but he doesn't seem to be thin-skinned. (as evidenced by his tenacity)
A couple of his pals, particularly the new one from SF and probably the old one with the hang up about bike lane hysteria. But I could be wrong.
I tend to disagree. He might be dogmatic, but he doesn't seem to be thin-skinned. (as evidenced by his tenacity)
A couple of his pals, particularly the new one from SF and probably the old one with the hang up about bike lane hysteria. But I could be wrong.
Brian
03-21-07, 04:31 PM
IMO because several posters believe that their sacred cows should never be subjected to criticism, let alone gored. In their scheme, all such "disrespect" is considered a personal insult worthy of whining and complaining to the mods.
In all fairness, there are plenty of members that don't take sides, but don't like the way many of you interact.
In all fairness, there are plenty of members that don't take sides, but don't like the way many of you interact.
I-Like-To-Bike
03-21-07, 07:35 PM
In all fairness, there are plenty of members that don't take sides, but don't like the way many of you interact.
Oh I am sure you are right. Some of our BF friends in several sub forums are all for one big support group hugging each other with the approved conventional wisdom and nicey-nice silly talk.
Oh I am sure you are right. Some of our BF friends in several sub forums are all for one big support group hugging each other with the approved conventional wisdom and nicey-nice silly talk.
closetbiker
03-22-07, 11:55 AM
In all fairness, there are plenty of members that don't take sides, but don't like the way many of you interact.
...and keep away from the debate or the forums in general because of they way the posts go.
It's just not worth wasting too much sleep over the debate if it's not the ideas that are objected to, but the posters that are being objectionable.
A forum is only as good as it's members. For me, it's teetering on the brink on weather to spend time and effort here or not.
...and keep away from the debate or the forums in general because of they way the posts go.
It's just not worth wasting too much sleep over the debate if it's not the ideas that are objected to, but the posters that are being objectionable.
A forum is only as good as it's members. For me, it's teetering on the brink on weather to spend time and effort here or not.
drroebuck
04-10-07, 01:45 PM
I stopped coming to BF several months ago simply because of all the BS--mostly between 3 or 4 people who constantly dominate every thread with garbage that had very little to do with the original post. I came back today to see if anything was different, and this is the first post I read....
I left BF about a year ago because the mods are way too heavy-handed. This is a good example.
Isn't the beauty of the Internet in its self-governance? If I don't like what someone says, or a thread has been "hijacked," I have three options: argue back, ignore the flamer, go read something else. I much prefer that those options remain mine.
I can understand the need to deal with the most blatant *****es, etc., but to lock threads because they've veered off topic or become argumentative is condescending and fascist. Dial down the authority and maybe some people won't feel the need to rebel; the remaining jack*****es you can deal with on a case-by-case basis.
Ah well, back to RBR I go. See ya next year.
I left BF about a year ago because the mods are way too heavy-handed. This is a good example.
Isn't the beauty of the Internet in its self-governance? If I don't like what someone says, or a thread has been "hijacked," I have three options: argue back, ignore the flamer, go read something else. I much prefer that those options remain mine.
I can understand the need to deal with the most blatant *****es, etc., but to lock threads because they've veered off topic or become argumentative is condescending and fascist. Dial down the authority and maybe some people won't feel the need to rebel; the remaining jack*****es you can deal with on a case-by-case basis.
Ah well, back to RBR I go. See ya next year.
joejack951
04-10-07, 04:30 PM
drroebuck, Completely off-topic but I love the quote in your sig. I read that in a book on bicycle history and laughed at how applicable it still is today.
Brian
04-10-07, 05:13 PM
I left BF about a year ago because the mods are way too heavy-handed. This is a good example.
Isn't the beauty of the Internet in its self-governance? If I don't like what someone says, or a thread has been "hijacked," I have three options: argue back, ignore the flamer, go read something else. I much prefer that those options remain mine.
I can understand the need to deal with the most blatant *****es, etc., but to lock threads because they've veered off topic or become argumentative is condescending and fascist. Dial down the authority and maybe some people won't feel the need to rebel; the remaining jack*****es you can deal with on a case-by-case basis.
Ah well, back to RBR I go. See ya next year.
You don't get it. And what are all the $ signs for? They just make you look like a jackass.
Isn't the beauty of the Internet in its self-governance? If I don't like what someone says, or a thread has been "hijacked," I have three options: argue back, ignore the flamer, go read something else. I much prefer that those options remain mine.
I can understand the need to deal with the most blatant *****es, etc., but to lock threads because they've veered off topic or become argumentative is condescending and fascist. Dial down the authority and maybe some people won't feel the need to rebel; the remaining jack*****es you can deal with on a case-by-case basis.
Ah well, back to RBR I go. See ya next year.
You don't get it. And what are all the $ signs for? They just make you look like a jackass.
donnamb
04-10-07, 10:56 PM
I left BF about a year ago because the mods are way too heavy-handed. This is a good example.
Isn't the beauty of the Internet in its self-governance? If I don't like what someone says, or a thread has been "hijacked," I have three options: argue back, ignore the flamer, go read something else. I much prefer that those options remain mine.
I can understand the need to deal with the most blatant *****es, etc., but to lock threads because they've veered off topic or become argumentative is condescending and fascist. Dial down the authority and maybe some people won't feel the need to rebel; the remaining jack*****es you can deal with on a case-by-case basis.
Ah well, back to RBR I go. See ya next year.
You know, we've got folks like you who say we're too heavy-handed. We've also got an equal number of folks saying moderation here isn't heavy-handed enough. If neither group of people are satisfied with our moderation, I'd say we're doing something right.
I wish you the best in your pursuit of a self-governing Shangri-la. Take care. :)
Isn't the beauty of the Internet in its self-governance? If I don't like what someone says, or a thread has been "hijacked," I have three options: argue back, ignore the flamer, go read something else. I much prefer that those options remain mine.
I can understand the need to deal with the most blatant *****es, etc., but to lock threads because they've veered off topic or become argumentative is condescending and fascist. Dial down the authority and maybe some people won't feel the need to rebel; the remaining jack*****es you can deal with on a case-by-case basis.
Ah well, back to RBR I go. See ya next year.
You know, we've got folks like you who say we're too heavy-handed. We've also got an equal number of folks saying moderation here isn't heavy-handed enough. If neither group of people are satisfied with our moderation, I'd say we're doing something right.
I wish you the best in your pursuit of a self-governing Shangri-la. Take care. :)
drroebuck
04-11-07, 01:12 AM
drroebuck, Completely off-topic but I love the quote in your sig. I read that in a book on bicycle history and laughed at how applicable it still is today.
Ha! We must have read the same book. Lots of gems in that one.
You don't get it. And what are all the $ signs for? They just make you look like a jackass.
Now there's an intelligent response.
You know, we've got folks like you who say we're too heavy-handed. We've also got an equal number of folks saying moderation here isn't heavy-handed enough. If neither group of people are satisfied with our moderation, I'd say we're doing something right.
You may have a point. At the end of the day, however, if a lot of people would just grow up (that includes the provocateurs and the easily provoked) you guys would have a lot less moderating to do.
I wish you the best in your pursuit of a self-governing Shangri-la. Take care. :)
Why thank you. It does exist. I have seen it.
_
Ha! We must have read the same book. Lots of gems in that one.
You don't get it. And what are all the $ signs for? They just make you look like a jackass.
Now there's an intelligent response.
You know, we've got folks like you who say we're too heavy-handed. We've also got an equal number of folks saying moderation here isn't heavy-handed enough. If neither group of people are satisfied with our moderation, I'd say we're doing something right.
You may have a point. At the end of the day, however, if a lot of people would just grow up (that includes the provocateurs and the easily provoked) you guys would have a lot less moderating to do.
I wish you the best in your pursuit of a self-governing Shangri-la. Take care. :)
Why thank you. It does exist. I have seen it.
_
Brian
04-11-07, 05:40 AM
Now there's an intelligent response.
Thank you.
Thank you.
LittleBigMan
07-12-07, 07:51 PM
I left BF about a year ago because the mods are way too heavy-handed. This is a good example.
Isn't the beauty of the Internet in its self-governance? If I don't like what someone says, or a thread has been "hijacked," I have three options: argue back, ignore the flamer, go read something else. I much prefer that those options remain mine.
I can understand the need to deal with the most blatant *****es, etc., but to lock threads because they've veered off topic or become argumentative is condescending and fascist. Dial down the authority and maybe some people won't feel the need to rebel; the remaining jack*****es you can deal with on a case-by-case basis.
Ah well, back to RBR I go. See ya next year.
Good rant.
Hey, the internet is full of options. Nothing stopping you, really, from saying anything you want, if people want to hear it.
Isn't the beauty of the Internet in its self-governance? If I don't like what someone says, or a thread has been "hijacked," I have three options: argue back, ignore the flamer, go read something else. I much prefer that those options remain mine.
I can understand the need to deal with the most blatant *****es, etc., but to lock threads because they've veered off topic or become argumentative is condescending and fascist. Dial down the authority and maybe some people won't feel the need to rebel; the remaining jack*****es you can deal with on a case-by-case basis.
Ah well, back to RBR I go. See ya next year.
Good rant.
Hey, the internet is full of options. Nothing stopping you, really, from saying anything you want, if people want to hear it.
Brian
07-12-07, 08:59 PM
I'll take note of his complaint. Did I mention that since he left, the site has more than doubled in size? I predict that we have have tripled our membership in roughly 18 months. We should hit 79K before the end of the month, so I kind feel we're doing something right.
Blue Order
07-12-07, 09:03 PM
I've seen his shangri-la. It's ugly, vicious, mean-spirited, and abusive. Thankfully, we have moderators here.
nun
02-28-08, 11:41 AM
As VC is all about operating a bike in a vehicular manner with all the other vehicles on the road I find it a bit ironic that VC has been consigned to is own little sub-forum ghetto. Is this to keep it away from the general A&S threads so that it won't cause too much trouble?
Little Darwin
02-28-08, 11:45 AM
Because every thread on every topic was turning into a VC thread.
Some people think that a discussion can sometimes be enlightening without considering the implications as related to vehicular cycling, others don't. ;)
Some people think that a discussion can sometimes be enlightening without considering the implications as related to vehicular cycling, others don't. ;)
Bekologist
02-28-08, 11:48 AM
because VC is bicycling advocacy's ******* stepchild- and the vehemence of some of the 'vc' was ruining A&S topics so bad the moderators decided to make a little sandpit for mudslinging that includes prejudice.
Script
02-28-08, 11:51 AM
because VC is bicycling advocacy's ******* stepchild- and the vehemence of some of the 'vc' was ruining A&S topics so bad the moderators decided to make a little sandpit for mudslinging that includes prejudice.
And here I thought it was so we would all be on the same page when we started singing 'Kumbaya'
:D
And here I thought it was so we would all be on the same page when we started singing 'Kumbaya'
:D
KrisPistofferson
02-28-08, 12:26 PM
VC needed it's own bike lane. Now HH torments us in P&R about Ron Paul, Ayn Rand and Richard Dawkins all day. You should have to pay us for taking him off your hands.
Blue Order
02-28-08, 02:40 PM
Because every thread on every topic was turning into a VC thread.
Some people think that a discussion can sometimes be enlightening without considering the implications as related to vehicular cycling, others don't. ;)By way of example, somebody whom I shall refer to here as "I Drank the Kool-Aid" replied to a question about which lights would be good for use as daytime flashers with yet another "I drank the Kool-Aid" lecture on lane positioning.
It was happening to every thread:
OP: Can somebody please explain bike fit to me?
I Drank the Kool-Aid: Let me tell you about lane positioning...
OP: So which candidate would be good for cycling?
I Drank the Kool-Aid: Let me tell you about lane positioning...
OP: Can somebody recommend some good rain gear?
I Drank the Kool-Aid: Let me tell you about lane positioning...
...so a VC subforum was created.
Some people think that a discussion can sometimes be enlightening without considering the implications as related to vehicular cycling, others don't. ;)By way of example, somebody whom I shall refer to here as "I Drank the Kool-Aid" replied to a question about which lights would be good for use as daytime flashers with yet another "I drank the Kool-Aid" lecture on lane positioning.
It was happening to every thread:
OP: Can somebody please explain bike fit to me?
I Drank the Kool-Aid: Let me tell you about lane positioning...
OP: So which candidate would be good for cycling?
I Drank the Kool-Aid: Let me tell you about lane positioning...
OP: Can somebody recommend some good rain gear?
I Drank the Kool-Aid: Let me tell you about lane positioning...
...so a VC subforum was created.
derath
02-28-08, 02:43 PM
Because A&S is the place where everyone can chat and feel like they are actually doing something. the VC forum is the place where everyone can circle jerk around over and over. It is like Foo without the fun.
-D
-D
JRA
02-28-08, 03:18 PM
As VC is all about operating a bike in a vehicular manner...
You must be new here. :D
The premise is wrong. That's not what VC is all about (if only it were! if only it were!).
VC-ism is so much more (unfortunately). Back in the days when I used to think that VC was all about operating a bike in a vehicular manner, I used to think VC was a good thing. I have a very different view now.
If you want to start an argument among bicyclists, bring up John Forester and his cult-like following. Read the VC forum and you will see thread after thread degenerate into the same tired old fight over whether JF is a god or a demon. It isn't pretty.
Personally, I think the split was a wonderful thing for A&S.
You must be new here. :D
The premise is wrong. That's not what VC is all about (if only it were! if only it were!).
VC-ism is so much more (unfortunately). Back in the days when I used to think that VC was all about operating a bike in a vehicular manner, I used to think VC was a good thing. I have a very different view now.
If you want to start an argument among bicyclists, bring up John Forester and his cult-like following. Read the VC forum and you will see thread after thread degenerate into the same tired old fight over whether JF is a god or a demon. It isn't pretty.
Personally, I think the split was a wonderful thing for A&S.
Helmet Head
02-28-08, 03:42 PM
Read the VC forum and you will see thread after thread degenerate into the same tired old fight over whether JF is a god or a demon. It isn't pretty.
That's an absurd and totally unsubstantiated claim.
Whatever VC is, it's definitely not a cult of personality.
That's an absurd and totally unsubstantiated claim.
Whatever VC is, it's definitely not a cult of personality.
-=Łem in Pa=-
02-28-08, 03:46 PM
You must be new here. :D
The premise is wrong. That's not what VC is all about (if only it were! if only it were!).
VC-ism is so much more (unfortunately). Back in the days when I used to think that VC was all about operating a bike in a vehicular manner, I used to think VC was a good thing. I have a very different view now.
If you want to start an argument among bicyclists, bring up John Forester and his cult-like following. Read the VC forum and you will see thread after thread degenerate into the same tired old fight over whether JF is a god or a demon. It isn't pretty.
Personally, I think the split was a wonderful thing for A&S.
+1
I hate to see useful stuff get fouled by the 4 horseman of VC
The premise is wrong. That's not what VC is all about (if only it were! if only it were!).
VC-ism is so much more (unfortunately). Back in the days when I used to think that VC was all about operating a bike in a vehicular manner, I used to think VC was a good thing. I have a very different view now.
If you want to start an argument among bicyclists, bring up John Forester and his cult-like following. Read the VC forum and you will see thread after thread degenerate into the same tired old fight over whether JF is a god or a demon. It isn't pretty.
Personally, I think the split was a wonderful thing for A&S.
+1
I hate to see useful stuff get fouled by the 4 horseman of VC
Blue Order
02-28-08, 04:18 PM
If you want to start an argument among bicyclists, bring up John Forester and his cult-like following.That's an absurd and totally unsubstantiated claim.
Whatever VC is, it's definitely not a cult of personality.Is that there what they call "Q.E.D."?
:D
Whatever VC is, it's definitely not a cult of personality.Is that there what they call "Q.E.D."?
:D
Helmet Head
02-28-08, 04:57 PM
Is that there what they call "Q.E.D."?
:D
:p
But seriously, just because there is controversy about what the ramifications of VC are does not mean it is "much more" than being "all about operating a bike in a vehicular manner...".
In fact, it is because VC is "all about operating a bike in a vehicular manner...", and bike lanes are not, that that part of the controversy exists.
:D
:p
But seriously, just because there is controversy about what the ramifications of VC are does not mean it is "much more" than being "all about operating a bike in a vehicular manner...".
In fact, it is because VC is "all about operating a bike in a vehicular manner...", and bike lanes are not, that that part of the controversy exists.
Allister
02-28-08, 05:05 PM
I vote this thread gets moved to the VC forum.
Blue Order
02-28-08, 05:08 PM
:p:lol:
:beer:
But seriously, just because there is controversy about what the ramifications of VC are does not mean it is "much more" than being "all about operating a bike in a vehicular manner...".
In fact, it is because VC is "all about operating a bike in a vehicular manner...", and bike lanes are not, that that part of the controversy exists.I question that premise. Look at any highway in California. The left lane is almost always an HOV lane. With some exceptions for ZEV and ULEV vehicles, single-occupancy vehicles are not permitted to operate in those lanes. And yet nobody would claim that vehicles excluded from the HOV lanes are not "vehicles," or are not being operated "vehicularly."
:beer:
But seriously, just because there is controversy about what the ramifications of VC are does not mean it is "much more" than being "all about operating a bike in a vehicular manner...".
In fact, it is because VC is "all about operating a bike in a vehicular manner...", and bike lanes are not, that that part of the controversy exists.I question that premise. Look at any highway in California. The left lane is almost always an HOV lane. With some exceptions for ZEV and ULEV vehicles, single-occupancy vehicles are not permitted to operate in those lanes. And yet nobody would claim that vehicles excluded from the HOV lanes are not "vehicles," or are not being operated "vehicularly."
JRA
02-28-08, 05:23 PM
I vote this thread gets moved to the VC forum.
LOL
Seconded
LOL
Seconded
donnamb
02-28-08, 06:04 PM
I merged it with Brian's original thread on the topic. The decision stands, as does the reasons behind it.
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