I've done many 200k rides, double centuries, Ramrod, and the like but they've all been bike club supported rides, where there were rest stops with food and water and most folks spend a few minutes there. This was a little different. I was riding with the front group of experienced rando riders. The idea was to spend no more than 3 minutes in each control - just time to sign the card and then back on the bike. They ate gummi bears, bars, cookies, etc., out of their Bento boxes or handlebar bags. Didn't seem to need much water. I got left at the 50-mile control, still filling my water bottle with drink mix, refilling my camelbak, taking a leak and dropping a couple of Endurolytes. They probably put 5 minutes on me right there.
The pace had been very high - 90-95% of my LT pretty continuously. I later discovered that the main activist in this group was the National 24 Hour Challenge champion. Anyway, I rode solo for most of the next 55 miles, while the lead group put about 15 seconds a mile on me. So I probably could have stayed with them if I'd gotten out of the control in time and had stayed with them on the hard climbs, which was questionable. Then a buddy from that group waited 15 minutes at the last control for me, and we finished together, 7:58ET for a course with 5600' of climbing, which I guess is pretty good. 8th out of 120 riders. Those front guys were so good that no one passed me the whole rest of the ride. I still probably had 10 minutes on the next rider at the finish.
But mostly what I'm asking about is that as I rode, my HR dropped. By the finish I was down to 80% of LT on the flats, and 88% on the steep climbs. That was it unless I really asked. I still wasn't exactly slow: 21-23 on the flats. But I felt like I could have maintained that pace for a very long time if I hadn't been so tired already, and in fact I recovered a little. So should I have started at my finishing pace - steady state of 80% of LT, lower on the descents, and no more than 85-90% on the climbs? Do you think a pace like that will do it for me on the 400k? What pace do you use?
On these "short" rides, I'm used to staying with the leaders until I get dropped and then just making my way to the finish. And sometimes I don't get dropped. That minimizes my ET on short rides, and is good training, but obviously won't work on really long rides with superior athletes. I didn't have another 200k in me.
merlinman
03-18-07, 04:29 PM
I found when using my camelbak on long rides that it helped me get tuckered out way sooner and I slowed my pace down (and therefore HR). It is over 4lbs on your back and if you are shooting for speed on these distance events (which I do) I thnk you lose something relative to other riders (assuming all of same relative fitness and weight). So I dropped the camelbak (and the refill time) - stuck a 3rd water bottle in my back pocket - and find I can sustain the higher pace and HR over time without the fatigue. Perhaps just my own quirk. Sounds like you are doing super well regardless.
Carbonfiberboy
03-18-07, 05:12 PM
I found when using my camelbak on long rides that it helped me get tuckered out way sooner and I slowed my pace down (and therefore HR). It is over 4lbs on your back and if you are shooting for speed on these distance events (which I do) I thnk you lose something relative to other riders (assuming all of same relative fitness and weight). So I dropped the camelbak (and the refill time) - stuck a 3rd water bottle in my back pocket - and find I can sustain the higher pace and HR over time without the fatigue. Perhaps just my own quirk. Sounds like you are doing super well regardless.
I've been thinking about that, too. I'm a huge water consumer - about an ounce a mile or more. I ride a 52cm frame, so no room for a 3rd bottle cage, and I can't use a behind-the-saddle mount because of the rack pack. The bottle in the jersey pocket under the rain gear won't be easy to get at, either. I've been using the Camelbak for 10 years and I know it looks Freddy. I just put enough water in it to get to the next control with water or rest stop, so it's no more weight than bottles, and it's on my back rather than on my bike. I think the bike feels better with only one bottle on it. So I don't know.
In any case, that has nada to do with my pacing question. I don't really care about being slower in the controls, and don't think filling two water bottles will be faster than watering one Camelbak anyway, controls being about 50 miles apart. I need to learn to pace myself for these long rides. My normal strategy worked fine on this short ride (200k). Maybe it would work fine on the 400, too, because even the fast guys have to pace themselves. I just don't have the experience to know the answer to that. And don't fancy acquiring said experience the painful way. I'm no superior athlete, I'm just an ordinary old geezer who's trained.
Were you on that SIR ride, merlinman?
Goonster
03-18-07, 08:56 PM
On these "short" rides, I'm used to staying with the leaders until I get dropped and then just making my way to the finish. And sometimes I don't get dropped. That minimizes my ET on short rides, and is good training, but obviously won't work on really long rides with superior athletes. I didn't have another 200k in me.
Sure you did. You just don't know it yet.
Brevets, especially longer brevets, are 90% half mental.
I mostly use your method, but get dropped sooner. Then I look for my friends. If it means a 20-minute wait in a cafe, so be it. Unless you're really looking to bag a time, do whatever it takes to maximize your chance of a finish. Often, that means slowing down.
Carbonfiberboy
03-18-07, 09:23 PM
Brevets, especially longer brevets, are 90% half mental.I love it. That sounds like me when I haven't eaten enough and my brain is low on glucose. I understand what you're saying, though.
merlinman
03-18-07, 09:50 PM
I wasn't - my kids are in Ultimate Frisbee tournaments and Spring is usually filled up with them on weekends - I'm in "training" until the summer ride season - which means most of my long riding is weekdays. Saturday morning was prettty nice (I got a quick 2 hour ride in) so I assume the SIR 200K went well?
Carbonfiberboy
03-18-07, 10:44 PM
Yes, it went well. Early finishers only had rain for the last 10 miles. I wore shorts with leg warmers on the outside, longsleeve undershirt and summer jersey! Nice day. Good chili. Legs OK now.
We have a merlin that comes to eat the sparrows at our bird feeder. A merlin restoration project.
enure
03-18-07, 11:41 PM
The route: http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=781854
Machka
03-19-07, 12:06 AM
It's sort of "funny" ... often, when I finish a 200K, I think I'm pretty much finished ... then a week or two later, I get out there and do a 300 without too much difficulty, but at the end of it, I think I'm pretty much finished ... then a week or two later it is a repeat performance with the 400K ... and then the 600K. It is a mental game! You tell your brain that you're going to do a certain distance, it resigns itself to your insanity, and pulls off that distance. But if you were to tell it that you were only going to do 200K, and then discovered that your route was something like 250 kms ... that last 50 kms would seem like you were climbing a mountain or riding into a headwind, and they would seem like they are going on forever.
As for your pacing question, I tend to start my rides relatively briskly for the first 25 kms or so, and then I slow it down and get into a comfortable pace which I can maintain forever. I've ridden that pace on 200Ks all the way up to 1200Ks. I'm very consistant. Then, with anywhere from about 25-100 kms to go, I become a horse that senses the barn! I've been known to have negative splits on my brevets. I've also annoyed several cycling partners with that unexpected (to them) burst of energy at the end! I suppose I store up the energy for a final burst. And that's what seems to work for me.
BTW - I couldn't help but notice that you typed that there were 120 riders. Is that a typo? ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY?????? I'm all excited that there might be about 20 riders on the 200K of the Eau de Hell week at the beginning of April. 20 riders will be about 15 more than I've seen on a 200K in the past few years. I'd just about kill to ride with 120!! I'm obviously in the wrong part of the world!
papawizo
03-19-07, 05:48 AM
I was not one of those front runners but I overheard "the big guy" MT mention there were 130 riders. A veritable crowd that many seemed amazed by. I would guess the 300 will be similar numbers.
So come on down. Do the 300 on the 7th with SIR and head up to Vancouver for the rest of your big riding camp.
kartoffel
03-19-07, 07:28 AM
I found when using my camelbak on long rides that it helped me get tuckered out way sooner and I slowed my pace down (and therefore HR). It is over 4lbs on your back and if you are shooting for speed on these distance events (which I do)
Seems a little odd. Infantrymen have been humping backpacks way heavier than 4 pounds without tuckering out. If there was a better way, certainly the military would have figured it out by now.
An extreme amount of weight on your back might cause a sore butt, but four pounds?
I've been using the Camelbak for 10 years and I know it looks Freddy.
Yeah, being "cool" is way more important than drinking water :rolleyes:
hairytoes
03-19-07, 08:42 AM
If there was a better way, certainly the military would have figured it out by now.
You're being ironic, right?
Not an ex-mil guy myself, but my friend did a 20yr stint in the army. He said they changed boot designs 4 times in those 20yrs, every change was for the worse, every change was for cheaper boots.
Weight on your back is tiring, exhausting weight. You are always carrying it, even if taking a pull on the flats of your bars, even when going downhill. Keep the weight on the bike, not on your back.
Goonster
03-19-07, 10:14 AM
Infantrymen have been humping backpacks way heavier than 4 pounds without tuckering out. If there was a better way, certainly the military would have figured it out by now.
Where to start? :rolleyes:
1. Infantrymen don't ride bikes.
2. Uncle Sam needs a solution for 100,000 guys. We embrace our individuality, and get to choose our own gear.
3. When the gummint does a study on optimal load distribution for long-distance cyclists, let us know.
+1 on the "keep weight on the bike" advice. :beer:
Bruce Rosar
03-19-07, 10:22 AM
An extreme amount of weight on your back might cause a sore butt, but four pounds?
On a century ride (Hilly Hellacious Hundred (http://www.blueridgebicycleclub.org/hilly/)), I tried using a hydration pack and found that it increased the amount of weight that my arms and hands had to support. That was so uncomfortable that I dumped the water out early in the ride.
kartoffel
03-19-07, 12:20 PM
On a century ride (Hilly Hellacious Hundred (http://www.blueridgebicycleclub.org/hilly/)), I tried using a hydration pack and found that it increased the amount of weight that my arms and hands had to support. That was so uncomfortable that I dumped the water out early in the ride.
Might as well take off your jersey and your helmet while you're at it. Seriously dude, if you're having trouble holding up a couple pounds you might consider seeing a doctor.
Why is there such a stigma against hydration packs in this forum? I'll stop razzing you after this post, but seriously, to an outside observer, you all are highly irrational.
Goonster
03-19-07, 12:36 PM
to an outside observer, you all are highly irrational.
Not irrational. Just experienced.
I sometimes ride with a strong, experienced fellow who likes his Camelbak. My experience has shown that he is in the minority among randonneurs. Consider also that randonneurs, as opposed to most roadies, MTB'ers, racers, etc. have options with regard to auxiliary water storage, in the form of baggage.
In this thread we have three independent, first-hand, unbiased reports about discomfort from the weight.
Randonneurs are not that image-conscious, believe me.
What's your experience with Camelbak's beyond 200 km? Beyond 24 hrs?
merlinman
03-19-07, 12:43 PM
Actually I'm pretty rational. I "field tested" with hydration pack and without. 5 hour ride with lots of hills (we have those in Seattle area) total of about 4,500 feet of elevation gain. It makes a difference. I like the idea of hydration packs - heck I've got one - but after that much time in the saddle trying to go at fast pace I can tell you I am more fatigued and my total time is down. If I didn;t care about time I guess it wouldn't matter. For the record I am a lean, very fit cyclist (6'1" 165 lbs). True - I am 50 years old - so maybe that's the reason I notice it..... I am also lucky enough to be able to afford these really cool high performance tech fabric jerseys - so they only add a couple ounces to my weight ;-).
spokenword
03-19-07, 01:48 PM
Why is there such a stigma against hydration packs in this forum? I'll stop razzing you after this post, but seriously, to an outside observer, you all are highly irrational. for what it's worth, I've taken a hydration pack on 400 and 600k's and have been fine with it. I like having the extra reservoir of liquid, but that's a personal choice and I don't razz on people who choose not to use one, or call them irrational.
I have also found that it's only worthwhile if I have a smallish pack (like 1.5L capacity or 3 pounds) 2 liters or more do become uncomfortable, and I suspect that a large part of it is in relation to how much work your arms and shoulders have to do in compensating for road shock being transmitted from your stem and front handlebar. When I used to ride a hybrid bike, and had less weight on my forearms, my old 2 liter hydration pack was fine for a 400 mile trip, and I was also fine with packing in a rain jacket, food, keys, wallet and phone. Yet, that same pack on a touring bike with drop bars was a greater burden on a century. Trading down to a smaller hydration pack with a smaller cargo compartment just for keys, wallet and phone seemed to be a good compromise.
Carbonfiberboy
03-19-07, 03:22 PM
I hear what everyone is saying about Camelbaks. Among the front rando riders, I was the only one with a Camelbak. OTOH, I use it on every ride over 2 hours, so I'm very used to it. No discomfort on double centuries. It doesn't weigh 4 pounds. When it's full it weighs more than that, but why would I fill it? 40-50 oz. will get me to the next control, when it's almost empty and weighs essentially nothing. The good thing is that I use it. I can see that I drink a lot more often than guys with water bottles. I had to pee twice on the 200k, just right. But sometimes I do fill it. I fill it for the first 60 miles of Ramrod, for instance, so I don't have to stop before the Park entrance. I use the simple Camelbak, with no cargo attachments to tempt me.
My fueling strategy at this time is to use liquid food, a carb and protein homebrew. I know that will work for up to 400k and probably beyond, though I can see wanting a burger and fries or maybe some cold pop tarts. So food takes up one water bottle cage, leaving one one for plain water. Not enough. Don't like the jersey pocket thing. Too loose for me. I'm a tight kind of guy.
I see there are 30 oz. bottles available now. I could dial back the strength of my food concoction to just 50 miles worth, and have a second 30 oz. bottle. That would be good for 50 miles for sure. Anyone use big bottles like that?
What do you rando folks get when your mouth is tired of the usual stuff and you're near a store or fast food place?
bmike
03-19-07, 03:33 PM
I hear what everyone is saying about Camelbaks. Among the front rando riders, I was the only one with a Camelbak. OTOH, I use it on every ride over 2 hours, so I'm very used to it. No discomfort on double centuries. It doesn't weigh 4 pounds. When it's full it weighs more than that, but why would I fill it? 40-50 oz. will get me to the next control, when it's almost empty and weighs essentially nothing. The good thing is that I use it. I can see that I drink a lot more often than guys with water bottles. I had to pee twice on the 200k, just right. But sometimes I do fill it. I fill it for the first 60 miles of Ramrod, for instance, so I don't have to stop before the Park entrance. I use the simple Camelbak, with no cargo attachments to tempt me.
My fueling strategy at this time is to use liquid food, a carb and protein homebrew. I know that will work for up to 400k and probably beyond, though I can see wanting a burger and fries or maybe some cold pop tarts. So food takes up one water bottle cage, leaving one one for plain water. Not enough. Don't like the jersey pocket thing. Too loose for me. I'm a tight kind of guy.
I see there are 30 oz. bottles available now. I could dial back the strength of my food concoction to just 50 miles worth, and have a second 30 oz. bottle. That would be good for 50 miles for sure. Anyone use big bottles like that?
What do you rando folks get when your mouth is tired of the usual stuff and you're near a store or fast food place?
3rd water bottle mount helps. you can also add a behind the seat bottle system like the tri guys do. i did that last year for a brevet. worked well.
Carbonfiberboy
03-19-07, 04:21 PM
3rd water bottle mount helps. you can also add a behind the seat bottle system like the tri guys do. i did that last year for a brevet. worked well.May not work with my seat post rack-and-pack system. 52cm frame with only about 4" of exposed post. Do you or anyone know of a seat mounted cage holder that puts the bottle above the saddle?
Goonster
03-19-07, 04:32 PM
What do you rando folks get when your mouth is tired of the usual stuff and you're near a store or fast food place?
Whatever I crave, and can get.
Fritos
Mac and cheese
Turkey sandwiches
Ice cream sandwiches
Beef jerky (for staying awake, sometimes)
Pickles
Fruit pies
Preferred above all else, but rarely available: Egg McMuffins
supcom
03-19-07, 06:35 PM
Not irrational. Just experienced.
I sometimes ride with a strong, experienced fellow who likes his Camelbak. My experience has shown that he is in the minority among randonneurs. Consider also that randonneurs, as opposed to most roadies, MTB'ers, racers, etc. have options with regard to auxiliary water storage, in the form of baggage.
In this thread we have three independent, first-hand, unbiased reports about discomfort from the weight.
Randonneurs are not that image-conscious, believe me.
What's your experience with Camelbak's beyond 200 km? Beyond 24 hrs?
My experience with a CamelBak at rides of 200, 300, and 400 Km are good. Any hydration pack actually carries the water weight fairly low on your back (gravity sucks) so the effect weight above the hands is minimal. For the rider who ditched his water on a hilly ride, I suspect he was suffering from the hills in general and the psychological benefit of making the change helped him. That's not a dig - we all go through difficult times and making any change we think will help gives us a boost.
I ride a lot in Texas summer heat of 90-100 deg F. A CamelBak is a tremendous help on rides in this kind of weather. Not only can you carry a lot more water between controls, but the water stays cold. Having plenty of water encourages deep drinking since you feel less need to conserve so you don't run out. And cold water on a hot day is much better than what comes out of a water bottle 30 minutes after leaving a control on a 95 deg sunny afternoon.
Where I ride, at least half of the randos are using CamelBaks. Less so in the winter, of course, since hydration needs are less. But once it warms up, the packs go on.
Oh, my independent, unbiased, first-hand report is that I hardly even notice the CamelBak when I wear it.
Machka
03-19-07, 07:43 PM
Seems a little odd. Infantrymen have been humping backpacks way heavier than 4 pounds without tuckering out. If there was a better way, certainly the military would have figured it out by now.
An extreme amount of weight on your back might cause a sore butt, but four pounds?
Have YOU ever done a 1200 km (750 mile) randonnee with a camelbak? I have. It was a BIG, BIG, BIG mistake. I almost had to DNF because of it. It is amazing how much damage 4 lbs of weight on your shoulders can do over 90 hours on the bicycle.
At the 1000 km point of the Last Chance Randonnee, I couldn't move my left arm anymore, and it and both shoulders were screaming in pain. Rowan was riding with me and he helped me off with the camelbak (I couldn't even get it off myself) and strapped it down on the back of his bicycle. About an hour later my shoulders started to feel better, about two hours later my left arm began to become more functional again. By the time I finished the ride I was fine.
I'd LOVE to be able to wear a camelbak on a randonnee ... I've been racking my brain how to carry more water ... but I'd rather not hurt myself. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with being cool ... it has EVERYTHING to do with pain or the lack thereof.
Oh, I should add that I can wear one up to about 400 kms without much difficulty ... it is as the distances increase that the pain also increases ... and mine is a small camelbak.
mplee
03-19-07, 07:55 PM
Hi, all!
i'm new here and pretty new to randonneuring. i'll just jump in with my own thoughts re camelbacks. i've ridden with and without and my feeling these days is i prefer without. controls are close enough that i can get by with two bottles and i can pack a third if i need it. mostly what i don't like about camelbacks is the extra pull i have to take on the tube. i know it should be insignificant but it just seems like it takes that little bit of extra breath that i'd rather not have to use. not to mention that it's happened a time or two when i pulled the mouthpiece off the tube and had a gushing fountain. try fixing that while riding in a group at 20mph.
otoh, what might change my mind is carrying a camelbak on the handlebars rather than my back. has anyone tried that?
** mp **
Machka
03-19-07, 07:57 PM
My fueling strategy at this time is to use liquid food, a carb and protein homebrew. I know that will work for up to 400k and probably beyond, though I can see wanting a burger and fries or maybe some cold pop tarts. So food takes up one water bottle cage, leaving one one for plain water. Not enough. Don't like the jersey pocket thing. Too loose for me. I'm a tight kind of guy.
I see there are 30 oz. bottles available now. I could dial back the strength of my food concoction to just 50 miles worth, and have a second 30 oz. bottle. That would be good for 50 miles for sure. Anyone use big bottles like that?
What do you rando folks get when your mouth is tired of the usual stuff and you're near a store or fast food place?
I have two of the 1 litre Zefal bottles (33 oz?) which I use on my rides. One is full of my HEED, the other is full of water. I would love to be able to carry a third, smaller bottle with my Ensure or other fuel in it, but I can't figure out where to put it on my bicycle. And as I mentioned in the post above, camelbaks are out except for the shorter brevets.
As for what to eat ...... eat whatever you crave! Yes, go for whatever your body tells you it wants! You see, your body knows what it needs (especially if you are fit) and it will tell you. If you eat what you crave, you've got a much better chance of keeping it down than you would if you went for something else. There is one little disclaimer here though ... if your body tells you it wants something very unusual, or extremely spicy, you might have a little chat with your body to see if there might be something else it would go for instead. :)
I've been known to eat .... garlic bread, cinnamon buns, french toast smothered in syrup, bacon, fried eggs, scrambled eggs, toast, hash browns, hamburgers, hot dogs, pizza, pizza pops, chicken burgers, chicken croissants, chicken sandwiches, egg sandwiches, grilled cheese sandwiches with pickles, perogies, chicken soup, french fries, onion rings, pastries of all sorts, cookies of all sorts (except peanut butter of course), bags and bags of salted almonds, beef jerky, 100% pure orange juice, sunflower seeds, pasta, potatoes, rice, canned fruit, bananas, various other fruits .... and I've probably missed a whole bunch of stuff!!
Carbonfiberboy
03-19-07, 08:28 PM
I have two of the 1 litre Zefal bottles (33 oz?) which I use on my rides.I've never seen them, but found mention of them online. Good tip. From where can I order a couple of them? Anybody know? That looks like just the thing. I'll put my homebrew in one and water in the other. Only thing is that they'll get warm compared to the Camelbak, but really warm rides are uncommon around here. If I'm refilling at a convenience store, ice should be available.
The varied foodstuff comments is also what I was looking for. I guess at sustainable effort levels, what sounds good will be good. I was hoping that would be the case.
Machka
03-19-07, 08:38 PM
I've never seen them, but found mention of them online. Good tip. From where can I order a couple of them? Anybody know? That looks like just the thing. I'll put my homebrew in one and water in the other. Only thing is that they'll get warm compared to the Camelbak, but really warm rides are uncommon around here. If I'm refilling at a convenience store, ice should be available.
The varied foodstuff comments is also what I was looking for. I guess at sustainable effort levels, what sounds good will be good. I was hoping that would be the case.
Welcome to one of my two main suppliers: Nashbar! :D
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=72&subcategory=1024&brand=&sku=3491&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=Shop%20by%20Subcat%3A%20Bottles
I haven't tried it, but I see Nashbar is carrying another large bottle now:
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=72&subcategory=1024&brand=&sku=19875&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=Shop%20by%20Subcat%3A%20Bottles
(BTW - My other main supplier is MEC)
The food craving thing is apparently like being pregnant ... pregnant women use up a lot of nutrients helping their babies grow, and so they have odd cravings, but cravings of ingredients that their bodies need. It is the same sort of thing with a randonneur ... we use up a lot of nutrients keeping the bicycle moving, and so we might have some odd cravings, but cravings of ingredients that our bodies need. :)
Carbonfiberboy
03-20-07, 07:41 AM
So Machka, the bottles look good. How about bottle cages? What do you like for these heavy Zefal bottles? Since we both have small frames, it seems like a front-loading cage would be better than a top loading cage. I hate it when the rider in front of me loses their bottle on a RR track. Opinions?
supcom
03-20-07, 11:24 AM
I have two of the 1 litre Zefal bottles (33 oz?) which I use on my rides. One is full of my HEED, the other is full of water. I would love to be able to carry a third, smaller bottle with my Ensure or other fuel in it, but I can't figure out where to put it on my bicycle. And as I mentioned in the post above, camelbaks are out except for the shorter brevets.
Macka,
Perhaps you LBS could install bottle cage mounts on the bottom of your down tube, as is done on a touring bike?
Minoura sells a strap on cage mount that might work if it doesn't put the cage too low. It would be cheaper than having the frame drilled (a scary thought!). Mounora also has a handlebar cage mount and saddle cage mounts, but these would interfere with any bags you are using.
There's also the Tallac double bottle cage. http://www.nashbar.com/results.cfm?brand=5204&init=y
Machka
03-20-07, 06:13 PM
So Machka, the bottles look good. How about bottle cages? What do you like for these heavy Zefal bottles? Since we both have small frames, it seems like a front-loading cage would be better than a top loading cage. I hate it when the rider in front of me loses their bottle on a RR track. Opinions?
I've always just used "normal" cages. I have no idea what brand they are or anything ... they are just average, run-of-the-mill cages. And I've had no problem at all fitting my bottles in, getting my bottles out, or losing my bottles.
Hopefully the photo below will show them ...
And supercom, here's my bicycle ... I really question if there's room under there!
.
supcom
03-20-07, 07:45 PM
I think there may be room on the bottom of the downtube for a mount. Third mounts on touring bikes tend to be pretty low. You wouldn't be able to access the bottle while riding, but a quick stop is all it takes to suck down a bottle of ensure. The bigger problem might be keeping a small diameter bottle like that in the cage. I guess you could transfer the contents to a regular bottle.
Other than that, if you don't use a handlebar bag on brevets, you could clamp a minoura handlebar cage mount up front.
Carbonfiberboy
03-20-07, 10:24 PM
I've always just used "normal" cages. I have no idea what brand they are or anything ... they are just average, run-of-the-mill cages.That looks like an Elite Ciussi cage. Normal. But tell us about the sock on that water bottle! That's not normal, Machka.
Machka
03-20-07, 11:05 PM
That looks like an Elite Ciussi cage. Normal. But tell us about the sock on that water bottle! That's not normal, Machka.
The one with the yellow bits is an Elite Ciussi? A friend of mine gave it to me several years ago when he was "upgrading" his cages. I think the other one probably came with the bicycle.
Doesn't everyone keep their bottles in socks?? :D
I have another bottle which I bought with a wrap on it. The selling feature was that a person would soak the wrap in water before a ride, and the air flowing over the wet wrap would help to keep the water cool. It worked. And it also worked to help keep the water fluid, instead of frozen, when I do cold rides. It's a MaxChill: http://www.maxchill.com/
The one and only little problem with the Maxchill bottle is that it isn't quite as big as I would like it, and so I purchased the Zefal.
I don't know why I didn't think of it ........... but when we were preparing to do the UMCA 24-hour (and then Last Chance Randonnee) in 2005, Rowan wanted to stop in at Walgreens to pick up a pair of inexpensive, ladies cotton socks, and a small package of coated ladies hair elastics - the kind we use to put our hair into ponytails. Ladies socks and hair elastics???? And then he showed me what he had in mind.
Essentially it is the same idea as the Maxchill ... you soak the sock until it is dripping, then slide it over the bottle, then secure it in place with the hair elastic, and fold over the excess bit of the sock so it doesn't get in the way. Keeps cold water cool in summer ... and cool water un-frozen in winter. :) It's cheap and relatively effective.
milo7
03-21-07, 09:01 AM
Sammamish Valley Cycles in Redmond carries the Zephal bottles
DogBoy
03-22-07, 07:02 AM
I've always just used "normal" cages. I have no idea what brand they are or anything ... they are just average, run-of-the-mill cages. And I've had no problem at all fitting my bottles in, getting my bottles out, or losing my bottles.
Hopefully the photo below will show them ...
And supercom, here's my bicycle ... I really question if there's room under there!
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Machka, that's not very OCD. Your water bottle cages don't even MATCH! :eek:
Thanks for the idea with the sock. I'll give it a try. I'm not a big fan of warm sports drink.
maxine
03-22-07, 10:56 AM
mostly what i don't like about camelbacks is the extra pull i have to take on the tube. i know it should be insignificant but it just seems like it takes that little bit of extra breath that i'd rather not have to use.
Funny. I've been watching this thread (without comment, as I am not one of the LD titans -- I only do centuries), but one of the things I liked best about switching from bottle to Camelbak is that I find it easier to use. Especially if I'm feeling particularly tired and stupid, just the effort of reaching down, wrenching the bottle out of its cage, balancing it in my sweaty hand as I tilt the bottle up/my head back to drink (if water level is low enough), then leaning back down and shoving the bottle back into the cage . . . dunno, it just seems like so much more *work* than just putting two fingers to my shoulder and taking a few pulls on a hose. :)
The only time I ever crashed my road bike was at the tail end of a hot, hilly century, when I dropped my water bottle as I tried to put it back in the cage. Fortunately, it was a pretty low-speed event, but I still have a nice scar right above my Achilles tendon from the 7 stitches it took to close the chainring-induced gash.
But everyone is different, and if a hydration pack causes discomfort, well, that's pretty much a deal-killer. If all things were equal, I'd rather ride without one, too . . . and the helmet and glasses and gloves!!
maxine
03-22-07, 11:04 AM
I think there may be room on the bottom of the downtube for a mount. Third mounts on touring bikes tend to be pretty low.
Worth a try! My bike is smaller than M's (my bike is smaller than *everybody's* :D), and I have the third downtube cage mount. On my bike, though, I can only fit a 20 oz bottle there, and if I recall correctly, even that only works if I'm not using the front fender.
Carbonfiberboy
03-22-07, 11:10 AM
If all things were equal, I'd rather ride without one, too . . . and the helmet and glasses and gloves!!And the seat pack and the pump and the taillight and the computer and the bottle cages. After I wash my bike, I'm always amazed at how light it is stripped. What a difference! Too bad I can't ride it like that except on the rollers. :(
Machka
03-22-07, 06:26 PM
Machka, that's not very OCD. Your water bottle cages don't even MATCH! :eek:
Thanks for the idea with the sock. I'll give it a try. I'm not a big fan of warm sports drink.
I've NEVER been OCD ... don't even know what the initials stand for. I'm more BL ......... Bag Lady ..... when I ride! :lol:
Keep soaking the sock all the way through the ride whenever you can.
Machka
03-22-07, 06:27 PM
Worth a try! My bike is smaller than M's (my bike is smaller than *everybody's* :D), and I have the third downtube cage mount. On my bike, though, I can only fit a 20 oz bottle there, and if I recall correctly, even that only works if I'm not using the front fender.
What size is your bicycle?
I'm thinking it would have to be a VERY small bottle to fit under the downtube on Machak ... and I always ride with my fenders.
maxine
03-23-07, 05:41 AM
What size is your bicycle?
I'm thinking it would have to be a VERY small bottle to fit under the downtube on Machak ... and I always ride with my fenders.
48 cm. (I'm 5'1.) Somewhere I have a photo of the bike with bottles in all three cages. It's a cyclocross frame, though, so maybe it has a bit more clearance between the front tire and the downtube than Machak -- ??
Michelangelo
03-23-07, 04:15 PM
BTW - I couldn't help but notice that you typed that there were 120 riders. Is that a typo? ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY?????? I'm all excited that there might be about 20 riders on the 200K of the Eau de Hell week at the beginning of April. 20 riders will be about 15 more than I've seen on a 200K in the past few years. I'd just about kill to ride with 120!! I'm obviously in the wrong part of the world!
Come over to Versailles then. The start is tomorrow (saturday 24th): 7:00 am. We will probable be about that number or more. And the ride will be fun and scenic, in spite of some rain to come
spokenword
03-23-07, 04:56 PM
I'm thinking it would have to be a VERY small bottle to fit under the downtube on Machak ... and I always ride with my fenders.
There's a mount for a third water bottle on my Trek 520, but it's located way down, almost to the bottom bracket. It's not intended to be a position that you can grab while you're pedaling. More of a place to store a reserve bottle. After you empty the one on top of your down tube or on your seat tube, swap the empty one for the reserve bottle underneath the downtube.
I was seriously considering getting a third bottle cage before going back to the Camelbak route. As Maxine said, it's nice to have the drinking tube nearby.