Utility Cycling - StokeMonkey

I'd been car-free for the better part of 8yrs. Then i got a car about half a year ago. It died. So I got a Stokemonkey. I just put it together this weekend & my, it's a blast.

Excellent. I live in the Stokemonkey's "home town", so I see quite a few of them around. Nice set-up you have there. :)

Never heard of a Stokemonkey until now. Just took a look at their website and it looks pretty cool. Keep us posted on how you are liking it.

I can't see the stokemonkey because I can't get past your saddle position! Not criticizing, just curious what's going on with that position.

I can't see the stokemonkey because I can't get past your saddle position! Not criticizing, just curious what's going on with that position.

I am guessing short torso;) :D with normal to long leg length.

Aaron:)

6'3" legs on a 5'8" torso..you got it aaron, although on this particular setup, the reach isn't really a big deal. I've simply become so accustomed to riding on top of the BB that setback feels all weird, like i can't really generate any power. although if any one could clue me in to the biomechanics of rear offset, i'd love to hear it.

and also the only two available seatposts in the house were the nitto forward bend, & a titec 'hell bent' seat post (1.5" rear offset). nitto won. i'll probably put a 'normal'/zero offset post on in it down the road.

& aaron.. you live in N.C?, whereabouts?

6'3" legs on a 5'8" torso..you got it aaron, although on this particular setup, the reach isn't really a big deal. I've simply become so accustomed to riding on top of the BB that setback feels all weird, like i can't really generate any power. although if any one could clue me in to the biomechanics of rear offset, i'd love to hear it.

and also the only two available seatposts in the house were the nitto forward bend, & a titec 'hell bent' seat post (1.5" rear offset). nitto won. i'll probably put a 'normal'/zero offset post on in it down the road.

& aaron.. you live in N.C?, whereabouts?

'bout an hour south of you in Sprung Leak(Spring Lake). I live in western Harnett County just above Fort Bragg. I do most of my riding over in Eastern Harnett around the Dunn area. My office is in Apex but I am not there very often. I work on the road.
About biometrics...I am no physiologist but what ever works for you :p The further back the saddle the better your climbing power, the closer to centered over the BB the better you can spin. The original seat behind the BB was a compromise. Take a look at some of the Tri guys they sit so far forward I am suprised they don't fall on the front wheel:D I am old school and like to really stretch out on a bike. Most of mine have long stays and long top tubes with long extension stems on them. I cannot stand to be scrunched up. However my current favorite two rides are a Raleigh Supreme and a Staiger, both with a bolt upright position and fairly short in the cockpit....go figure:rolleyes:

Aaron:)

Alan! Glad I could help finance this. May all your roads be lined with nubile naked women...and beer....if that's your thing.

I ultimately want to get a Stokemonkey. However, they are so expensive! Less than a car, of course, but with a car one can finance. For a SM one has to cough up the $ upfront, and then wait until they get around to producing it (I'm told that they have a waiting list as long as your arm).

[disclosure: commercial interest] the stokemonkey waiting list isn't very long at all. as for expense, yes the question is "compared to what?"

consider that when you buy something on credit (i.e., that you pay interest on) your interest payments go to help other people buy things they too can't really afford, such as cars. add up a couple few hundred million such purchases and you have the wherewithal to wage "perpetual war" to keep the bubble from bursting.

I ultimately want to get a Stokemonkey. However, they are so expensive! Less than a car, of course, but with a car one can finance. For a SM one has to cough up the $ upfront, and then wait until they get around to producing it (I'm told that they have a waiting list as long as your arm).

You can finance the Stokemonkey. Talk to your local bank or your local bike shop. If all else fails there are plenty of juicy 0% for 1 year credit card offers. If you need better financing than that then you probably shouldn't be spending the money.

Hmmm... I like this. If you can, please give us some range reports. I'd like to know what distance you are getting at max speed. And what that speed is.

The website says you can commute 25 miles, but how fast? Probably varies with every circumstance, but I'd like to hear some ballpark figures...

I ultimately want to get a Stokemonkey. However, they are so expensive! Less than a car, of course, but with a car one can finance. For a SM one has to cough up the $ upfront, and then wait until they get around to producing it (I'm told that they have a waiting list as long as your arm). The purchase price is equivalent to a down payment on a smaller new car or 3 month payment on one.:D I agree it looks like a lot up front, but once you buy it, that is all no monthly payments or interest to deal with.;) About as close to a free ride as you can get:p

Aaron:)

About as close to a free ride as you can get:p

Aaron:)
If you didn't have to charge it, or replace the battery once a year. Should get better as battery technology improves though. For example, D cells are already availalbe at 11 and 12Ah. If cleverchimp upgraded their small pack to these cells they could prettymuch drop the larger, heavier F-based pack.

If you didn't have to charge it, or replace the battery once a year. Should get better as battery technology improves though. For example, D cells are already availalbe at 11 and 12Ah. If cleverchimp upgraded their small pack to these cells they could prettymuch drop the larger, heavier F-based pack.

Where have you seen these 12Ah "D" cells? The NiMH cells that I have seen that claim higher than 10Ah are cheap Chinese batteries, and you can bet this is an exaggeration. Don't forget the cells are usually rated at C/10 which is a much lower discharge rate than they would experience in an electric vehicle. Also larger "F" cells can deliver greater charge on demand than smaller cells. Not as good as lead acid, but the lower the internal resistance the better.

Also, I run SLA batteries in my ebike and expect to get about three years out of the pack. Life expectancies like this are certainly not uncommon among Nickel based battery packs. My mother's ebike is based upon an older 36V NiCd pack and it has a manufacturer date of 2000! If someone is ignorant of how to care for the type of battery they use in the ebike, certainly it can be ruined within months, but it's really the exception to the rule to have to change out the battery every year as you claim.

Cheap chinese batteries eh? As opposed to what... a cheap taiwanese battery?

http://www.thomas-distributing.com/dbatteries.php

I am not a battery geek so I have no way of evaluating these claims. I have no reason to expect that they're any further off from their claims than the current 9Ah batteries though. My point was mainly that technology has progressed beyond what they are currently selling - which is always going to be the case if they haven't refreshed their offering in the last year.

[disclosure: commercial interest] the stokemonkey waiting list isn't very long at all. as for expense, yes the question is "compared to what?"

consider that when you buy something on credit (i.e., that you pay interest on) your interest payments go to help other people buy things they too can't really afford, such as cars. add up a couple few hundred million such purchases and you have the wherewithal to wage "perpetual war" to keep the bubble from bursting.

Tfahrner,

The SM seems like a great product; I use the same brand electric motor on my homemade ebike, but it is mounted in the front wheel hub rather than geared down to drive the crank. I apologize if I missed it on the website, but why did the SM designer choose to use a heavy hub motor to drive the crank rather than a lighter brushless motor such as the one used in the Lashout bike (BMC drive)?

I am not a battery geek so I have no way of evaluating these claims.

I'm not a battery geek either, but I do have to sort through a lot of claims; I find sourcing good batteries the single hardest part of offering my product. See http://todd.cleverchimp.com/blog/?p=123 -- I'd love to be out of the battery business. Note that unlike most electric bike products, there's no requirement to use the batteries I sell. The problem is that unless you really are a battery geek, you're unlikely to come up with suitable batteries on your own that don't either (a) suck, (b) cost way more than mine, or (c) both. Justin is one such battery geek in Canada and a source of suitable alternative batteries, btw: http://ebikes.ca/store/ . Consider that enclosures aren't included in the price and that you'll need to do your own wiring, the prices are not that far off from mine.

I apologize if I missed it on the website, but why did the SM designer choose to use a heavy hub motor to drive the crank rather than a lighter brushless motor such as the one used in the Lashout bike (BMC drive)?

Lighter motors of similar power operate at many thousands of RPMs, necessitating multi-stage reduction gearing to come down to useful speed/torque ratios. All these high-speed moving parts are noisy (often very), prone to wear, and can't be back-driven so require yet more wearing/moving parts (a clutch) to avoid being effectively one-way. Lighter motors require good airflow, cooling fins etc to avoid overheating when working hardest, which is when bicycles are moving slowest (loaded climbing), generating the least airflow.

But mainly it's noise. I can't stand noise on a bike. I designed the system to please myself first of all, to meet our family's car-free transportation needs, and quiet, reliable simplicity won out over the desire to have the lightest possible system.

Awesome bike, and what a great way to stay car-free without giving up to much in terms of distance, speed, sweatiness and carrying capacity.

Do you worry a lot about the Monkey, Xtracycle kit or the entire bike being stolen? Where do you store it at work and home, how do you secure it when outside, and do you currently have it insured? It looks like you have about $2500-$3000 worth of bike there.

TIA for humoring me :D

Do you worry a lot about the Monkey, Xtracycle kit or the entire bike being stolen? Where do you store it at work and home, how do you secure it when outside, and do you currently have it insured? It looks like you have about $2500-$3000 worth of bike there.
I've had an Xtracycle stolen, but not a stoked one, and I haven't heard of anybody else's being stolen. I think it's probably weird enough that thieves don't know quite what to make of it. I'd recommend taking the battery off the bike if you need to leave it unattended for very long; this renders the beast just kind of heavy to would-be thieves. Even if they got it with battery, the charger would be...? Sure I suppose the passing meth-head could just strip it for the wheels and whatever, but that's no different than with any nice bike.

I've had an Xtracycle stolen,
Wow. I thought I was jaded about bike theft in Portland, but I guess not as much as I believed, given my shock upon reading. :eek:

Wow, I'd not looked here for a week or so, it's neat to see the renewed interest.

Range/Speed: I've not put a computer on this bike yet (can't find the darn magnets..) However..As figured by google pedometer, my commute is 27.5mi. My ride home last nite was acheived in about 1.5hrs. this is about what i expected to be able to attain. On a full charge the battery is still going strong when i'm coming up the last road to my house, in fact i pushed it extra hard on the final sprint just to test it, & it was doing great. On last nights trip home, the battery was not fully charged & was petering out about 2mi from home. But, i'd charged the battery on monday, left it all week at the office unplugged, & then plugged it in for about 45min to an hour to top it off before making my trip home. I was kinda surprised that the battery lost that much charge just sitting all week, & the manufacturer does recommend leaving it plugged in all the time, which i will do now (it's just been hard for me to trust the smart charger). Also, i have the large battery.

The same trip took me 2hrs hours on a fixed gear, & rather spent & sweaty (it's hilly around here). While with that same trip on the stokemonkey i have enough breath to sing along to music i'm listening to, & get off the bike only slightly dewy, rather than sweaty & be able to converse freely (ie:not out of breath) as soon as i walk through the door.

Riding the 'monkey literally feels like a flying dream to me.

DeputyJones, why so interested in where i keep my $2-3K worth of bike? :)
I can fortunately keep it in my office at work & I bring it inside for now at home. Although i do take the battery out before bringing it up the front steps to make it's weight more reasonable. I agree with todd that i think the SM is a little to weird for thieves to know what to make of it. I also live & work in a rather low crime area.

I bought the 'monkey as my personal car died & this is what i wanted to replace it with. Most of the week though, I'm in company vehicles, as i work 'in the field'. (At least one of them is a prius). I would often park my car at work on a monday & it wouldn't move until friday. So far the same is kinda happening with the stokemonkey. On the flip side, i get kinda irrate about the 'monkey just sitting there, while i didn't mind my car being parked all week.

I just got the 'footsies' in for the xtracycle..first stoked trips with a passenger this weekend!

I will attest to the quietness of the SM, & i thank todd for designing it that way, the silence of a bicycle is one of the things i love, & be able to 'monkey practically noiselessly is a great thing.

Cost: Yes, i put a good bit into this bike, enough that i could've replaced the blown motor in my car, or gotten another car. But, as i mentioned, i have access to company vehicles & didn't see the reason to add another car to road, just to get me to work on monday & home on friday. I lived car-free for years ('bout 8yrs) & while it is noble, it does have disadvantages. The stokemonkey/xtracycle combo nearly obviates those disadvantages, enabling me to live a little bit closer to the world i want to live in. & more reliably than i could do it with either just a bike, or a car for that matter.

Wow, I'd not looked here for a week or so, it's neat to see the renewed interest.

Range/Speed: I've not put a computer on this bike yet (can't find the darn magnets..) However..As figured by google pedometer, my commute is 27.5mi. My ride home last nite was acheived in about 1.5hrs. this is about what i expected to be able to attain. On a full charge the battery is still going strong when i'm coming up the last road to my house, in fact i pushed it extra hard on the final sprint just to test it, & it was doing great. On last nights trip home, the battery was not fully charged & was petering out about 2mi from home. But, i'd charged the battery on monday, left it all week at the office unplugged, & then plugged it in for about 45min to an hour to top it off before making my trip home. I was kinda surprised that the battery lost that much charge just sitting all week, & the manufacturer does recommend leaving it plugged in all the time, which i will do now (it's just been hard for me to trust the smart charger). Also, i have the large battery.


Yes, NiMH has a problem with self-discharge if allowed to sit unused. As an interesting example, the cells I used to use in my wireless controller used to be NiMH, but I changed to NiCD because I would actually get more days usage out of the NiCD. The NiMH battery would self-discharge more power than I actually got out of it because I used the wireless controller so infrequently. I would follow the manufacturer's instructions. NiMH batteries do not tolerate overcharging, and they're too $$$ to be treated in a cavalier manner, IMO. The consensus among the battery gurus seems to be that NiMH should be "topped off" just like you did that day at the office if they have been allowed to self-discharge. On the positive sided NiMH gives you that consistent fresh-off-the-charger, powerful feeling on the ebike right up to the point it's charge is spent.



The same trip took me 2hrs hours on a fixed gear, & rather spent & sweaty (it's hilly around here). While with that same trip on the stokemonkey i have enough breath to sing along to music i'm listening to, & get off the bike only slightly dewy, rather than sweaty & be able to converse freely (ie:not out of breath) as soon as i walk through the door.

Riding the 'monkey literally feels like a flying dream to me.

Ain't it great! If you'll let me brag on my ebike, I could do that run in an hour, but only because my bike isn't geared for hauling heavy loads.

NiMH batteries do not tolerate overcharging, and they're too $$$ to be treated in a cavalier manner, IMO.
A smart charger takes care of this. Stokemonkey says its charger has "smart" features including a slow charge rate; that makes it sound like you don't have to worry about overcharging. That rate of 1.8A is 0.15-0.2C, which is a little higher than a trickle charge. I don't think it would be damaging unless you kept it plugged in for 24 hours or more, if it can be damaging at all.

All batteries last longer with shallow discharge cycles. Unless you have NiCD, charge them often.

A smart charger takes care of this. Stokemonkey says its charger has "smart" features including a slow charge rate; that makes it sound like you don't have to worry about overcharging. That rate of 1.8A is 0.15-0.2C, which is a little higher than a trickle charge. I don't think it would be damaging unless you kept it plugged in for 24 hours or more, if it can be damaging at all.

All batteries last longer with shallow discharge cycles. Unless you have NiCD, charge them often.

Nope. NiMH shouldn't be trickle charged except occasionally to balance the pack. This is just another characteristic that sets it apart from NiCD.


Charging nickel-metal-hydride

Nickel-metal-hydride chargers require more complex electronics than nickel-cadmium systems. To begin with, nickel-metal-hydride produces a very small voltage drop at full charge and the NDV is almost non-existent at charge rates below 0.5C and elevated temperatures. Aging and degenerating cell match diminish the already minute voltage delta further. This makes full charge detection difficult.

A nickel-metal-hydride charger must respond to a voltage drop of 8-16mV per cell. Making the charger too sensitive may terminate the fast charge halfway through the charge due to voltage fluctuations and electrical noise. Most of today's nickel-metal-hydride chargers use a combination of NDV, rate-of-temperature-increase (dT/dt), temperature sensing and timeout timers. The charger utilizes whatever comes first to terminate the fast-charge.

Nickel-metal-hydride should be rapid charged rather than slow charged. Because of poor overcharge absorption, the trickle charge must be lower than that of nickel-cadmium and is usually around 0.05C. This explains why the original nickel-cadmium charger cannot be used nickel-metal-hydride.

It is difficult, if not impossible, to slow-charge a nickel-metal-hydride. At a C?rate of 0.1-0.3C, the voltage and temperature profiles fail to exhibit defined characteristics to measure the full charge state accurately and the charger must rely on a timer. Harmful overcharge can occur if a partially or fully charged battery is charged with a fixed timer. The same occurs if the battery has aged and can only hold 50 instead of 100% charge. Overcharge could occur even though the battery feels cool to the touch.

Lower-priced chargers may not apply a fully saturated charge. Some will indicate full-charge immediately after a voltage or temperature peak is reached. These chargers are commonly sold on the merit of short charge time and moderate price

Nope. NiMH shouldn't be trickle charged except occasionally to balance the pack. This is just another characteristic that sets it apart from NiCD.
That's right, I forgot about how low the trickle charge needs to be. Still, couldn't you charge it all the time at 0.05C?

That makes me wonder how their charger is smart like they claim.

They're actually shipping a different charger than the website shows.

It's a 3a charger, that has a little fan running in it & circuitry to measure temperature & resistance & it automatically shuts off when it deems the battery 'full'. the only thing as far as leaving it plugged in is concerned (which i discovered this morning) is that it doesn't turn back on to keep the battery topped off by sensing the resistance/temperature drop. (i had left it plugged in overnight, & as expected had turned itself off, i flipped the switch on the charger off/on again & it went into another charge cycle, running for almost a half hour before i unplugged it & rolled out the door)

They're actually shipping a different charger than the website shows.

Yup, I gotta update that. The order form does indeed show the charger we're shipping though. The older 1.8A chargers are no longer available to me. The current 3A flavor, like the previous model, sense the rate of temperature change (dt/dT) as the primary charge terminator: when the heat-up starts to spike, the charger goes into a maintenance mode of unknown mechanism (to me). There are auxilliary V max and timeout circuits. An additional overcharge protection is the temperature fuse on the charge lead of the pack.

Since termination of charge depends on dt/dT, the charger can't tell whether a pack is fully charged the instant you connect the pack. If you wait for the charger to indicate that a charge is complete, then disconnect and immediately reconnect the charger, it will initiate a charge sequence again (a short one). This doesn't mean that the pack was in fact at less than a full charge (so don't do this on a regular basis). The charger won't start a charge if the initial temperature of the pack is outside a certain range, because that would likely throw off the dt/dT sensing and risk overcharge.

Tfahrner,

What I would like to see is an affordable 1C (10A-13A) charger with dt/dT cutoff and a special balancing charge mode with a very low trickle charge with a cutoff timer. The operator could preset the number of hours to trickle charge for purposes of keeping the pack in balance say once a month. Basically--like I believe you are--I am very disappointed in the battery and charger offerings for the ebikes. The battery technology exists to bring these bikes to the mainstream if someone in the battery industry would give ebike applications more than a passing glance. We've all seen how sophisticated the NiMH batteries in the hybrid are; why can't someone produce a standardized NiMH battery with integrated BMS and a truly fast charger for ebike application?

Hi Landluger, if you need to charge in an hour, consider powertool batteries. I've made my own battery pack using powertool batteries (milwaukee electric v28). I have 6 packs but only 3 chargers. It takes me a maximum of 2 hours to charge everything. If I wanted to buy 3 extra chargers, I guess I could to save time but 3 is good enough for now.

Hi Landluger, if you need to charge in an hour, consider powertool batteries. I've made my own battery pack using powertool batteries (milwaukee electric v28). I have 6 packs but only 3 chargers. It takes me a maximum of 2 hours to charge everything. If I wanted to buy 3 extra chargers, I guess I could to save time but 3 is good enough for now.

This is not the first time that I have heard of this; did you fabricate your own battery mounts? Could you post pics?

why can't someone produce a standardized NiMH battery with integrated BMS and a truly fast charger for ebike application?
If you've got the budget to ask, I'd suggest asking the EV suppliers. Especially the performance oriented guys, they're part of the EV community and develop this stuff themselves. If you're after fast charging, I don't think there's a home battery charger beefier than Manzanita Micro's (http://www.manzanitamicro.com/) PFC50. If 50 amps output isn't enough, there's even a 75 amp upgrade option, that ought to get those little D or F cells glowing in seconds. And if you ask $Nicely, you shouldn't have any trouble ordering one up programmed to work specifically with your battery chemistry's charge profile.
Spendy, though.

Hi Landluger. Follow this link:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=233

It explains how I made my pack along with pictures.

DeputyJones, why so interested in where i keep my $2-3K worth of bike? :)
I can fortunately keep it in my office at work & I bring it inside for now at home. Although i do take the battery out before bringing it up the front steps to make it's weight more reasonable. I agree with todd that i think the SM is a little to weird for thieves to know what to make of it. I also live & work in a rather low crime area.

:roflmao: No worries here bro. Your bike is safe from me :D. I am interested in insurance on bicycles though as I am considering spending some decent coin on a nice bike. I will keep my old Giant Rincon to commute/run errands on, but I want something a little faster for my weekend rides.

Thanks for posting this, BTW. Seems like a great option to go car free, and although the initial expenditure is greater than one would expect for a bike it can certainly help to be able to overcome some of the car free burdens.

P.S. My LBS has a folder with a little gas motor that gets 100 mpg. Not exactly the best option for some, but is still better than a car.

. . . My LBS has a folder with a little gas motor that gets 100 mpg. Not exactly the best option for some, but is still better than a car.

There are quite a few that frequent this forum that would strongly disagree on environmental grounds. I can't remember where I read it, but these small 2-cycle engines have terrible emissions compared to even full-sized cars. Check this out:

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/07/lawnmower_pollution.php

I'm keeping written records on my wife's compact car efficiency, and the MPG floats in the low 40's. I'm betting it is producing a very small fraction of the pollution of the ICE assisted bike at the shop. However, I still agree with you. According to my priorities, it is better than a car/truck.

Hmmm, I was not aware of that. Thanks for filling me in. I am in the market for a lawnmower (just bought a house) and the yard is small enough for an electric mower so maybe I will go that route.

The kids (4 and 5.5) have outgrown the Burley trailer, mom can't pull both trail behinds and the same time, and by next year there will be a third little one. This spread of ages, abilities, and equipment has led us to an Xtracycle. The best part is that it will recycle my beloved Trek 950 as the family workhorse for trips to the pool, shopping, etc. The only contingency is that for my wife to use it everyday, it has to have electric assist (and upgraded brakes!). Carrying two kids plus, I agree.

$400 for an Xtracycle kit is a deal, no doubt. $1350 for the Stokemonkey is a lot of money, and I need to know if it's worth it. I've considered the Chinese front hub/lead battery setups, but they weigh in at 50lbs or so to start and I know the battery won't be maintained "just so". The Stokemonkey design makes the most sense, driving the cranks vs. a hub (I like the Giant Lite, too, also $1300 if it were still sold). Any testimonials that will get me past the price?

(also posted in commuting)

The kids (4 and 5.5) have outgrown the Burley trailer, mom can't pull both trail behinds and the same time, and by next year there will be a third little one. This spread of ages, abilities, and equipment has led us to an Xtracycle. The best part is that it will recycle my beloved Trek 950 as the family workhorse for trips to the pool, shopping, etc. The only contingency is that for my wife to use it everyday, it has to have electric assist (and upgraded brakes!). Carrying two kids plus, I agree.

$400 for an Xtracycle kit is a deal, no doubt. $1350 for the Stokemonkey is a lot of money, and I need to know if it's worth it. I've considered the Chinese front hub/lead battery setups, but they weigh in at 50lbs or so to start and I know the battery won't be maintained "just so". The Stokemonkey design makes the most sense, driving the cranks vs. a hub (I like the Giant Lite, too, also $1300 if it were still sold). Any testimonials that will get me past the price?

I put an XtraCycle kit on a Giant Lite (xtracycle in the sig pic, lots of images there). I agree that the motor inline to the chain is a setup that I vastly prefer to hub motors. I get much more torque from a smaller motor, because it is gaining the advantage of using the bike's gears, than the hub motor on my Pop's Estelle (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=297657). On the Giant Lite (there are still a few on shelves in a few stores) I'm getting about 25 miles to the charge, and 18 or so when I'm heavily loaded. I can also carry 200 pounds on the setup. It's been a great cargo bike, and I've put just shy of 10k miles on it in 3 years.

My best friend got an XtraCycle and a StokeMonkey kit that I installed for him. He LOVES it! I'll try to find the picture he posted of him carrying home a couch from a garage sale on it!
He was so "stoked" about his rig, that his brother got one as well. I helped him install that one too!
Now I'm designing a bracket to attach a StokeMonkey to my Greenspeed tandem.
Everything is there, sans the proper bracket. The Stoker cranks are already in place and all I would have to do is add a second chainring for the StokeMonkey to connect to.
I'm in the same boat. I tried riding last weekend with all 4 kids. I nearly DIED trying to climb a gradual hill!
My 13 yr old stoker isn't much help in the pedaling department, in spite of his insistance otherwise! :p
So a StokeMonkey sure would be a boon to tandeming with ALL the kids!

For pictures, try his website...
lindsaydigital.com
or email him and ask for some pics. His name is Spencer. Tell him " 'Noid" sent you! :D

See my post in "Living Car Free" forum!

Dr. D - Thanks for the testimonial.

AllanG - I replied to your Morgan post a little late. We like the Giant, but can only find the step-thru frame for sale. Do you know of any 18" top-tube frames still for sale?

A google of "Giant Lite" brings up a couple of listings that seem to still have the top tube frames.
I would think the step-through frame would hold up fine with the freeloader kit. It looks to be well reinforced.
For what it's worth, I find the pedal activated system on the Giants much more comfortable and natural feeling than the throttle systems I've ridden.

My wife an I are car free with two kids. We have an xtracycle and are just waiting until our youngest (6months) is big enough to wear a helmet before we get her out of the trailer and into her bobike mini seat. Having said all that, a 50lb bike with one 30lb kid and another 16lb kid is a lot to pedal around and that's before adding groceries. We test rode the stoke monkey last year when we were in Portland visiting family and it is everything people say and more. For us, it's not a question of if, but when we get one. Todd is absolutely great and is sure to be a fantastic resource in making sure you get the setup you need. It may seem expensive, but I believe it is worth every penny. I hope this helps and you ultimately find the solution that works best or your family.

P.S. Congratulations on the newest addition.

Any testimonials that will get me past the price?
I think this is the link to Spencer's blog regarding his XtraCycle/StokeMonkey.
Check or search for June of '06 if I'm wrong. :p

http://www.lindsaydigital.com/blog/wordpress/index.php?s=stoke+monkey&submit=Search

Update:

I found 2 of the Giant's in 18" with the top tube or "diamond" frame in Minneapolis for $999 each. My wife likes the simplicity of the Giant better, and since it she's the primary pilot, that's her call.

My plan is to take a roadtrip this Saturday as they can't/won't ship it and order my Xtracycle today (about a 30 day wait, they say). All in all, gas for the car there and back is less than a box and ship (at least at my local LBS), so it's really costing me time. Guess I'll hit the libary for some books on CD.

I did find the blogs on the lindsaydigital site. Good testimonial to product satisfaction, but I found myself daydreaming about riding in such a beautiful place.

My wife an I are car free with two kids. We have an xtracycle and are just waiting until our youngest (6months) is big enough to wear a helmet before we get her out of the trailer and into her bobike mini seat. Having said all that, a 50lb bike with one 30lb kid and another 16lb kid is a lot to pedal around and that's before adding groceries. We test rode the stoke monkey last year when we were in Portland visiting family and it is everything people say and more. For us, it's not a question of if, but when we get one. Todd is absolutely great and is sure to be a fantastic resource in making sure you get the setup you need. It may seem expensive, but I believe it is worth every penny. I hope this helps and you ultimately find the solution that works best or your family.

P.S. Congratulations on the newest addition.
Thanks for the feedback. I posted in the commuting copy of this that I found the right deal on a Giant Lite, which is what my wife wants. I'd like to eventually build a Big Dummy/Stokemonkey for myself, but this Giant will be the family mule for now.

P.S.S
The third addition is an international adoption (our first adoption) that we're still working on, just waiting for immigration approval. I'll be travelling to Vietnam to get her while my wife stays home with the kids, so I'll kind of get to have the baby this time. Lots of adventure ahead!

but I found myself daydreaming about riding in such a beautiful place.
Then COME ON DOWN!! We'll show you around! :D

Because you're RIGHT, it IS a beautiful place to ride, live, BE! ;)

Congrats, the Lite is a great bike on its own as well. Swap out that hunk of foam they call a seat for something real. They really are workhorse bikes.