"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Zipp 404 tubular race wheels - do they feel faster?

Some of you have them. They seem to deliver a demonstrable +1mph or so @ 27+mph speeds. Can you feel it? Yes? Not really? My pal that has them says yes you can feel it.

And puh lease, spare me the 'work on the motor you idiot' sermons. I'm too old for that ****.

I need all the help I can get. I have tapped my reserve of wheelsucking secrets. It is vast and deep but my WSR (wheel sucking reserves) are almost as depleted as Bush's approval ratings. Almost. The only thing THAT depleted is Leiphemier's hair.

And no, this may not be the final Zipp 404 tubular thread I foist upon you no matter how sick of them you may be. Enjoy them while they last.

My Cosmic Carbone SL's most certainly feel faster.

fscking fast sounds about right

And no, this may not be the final Zipp 404 tubular thread I foist upon you no matter how sick of them you may be. Enjoy them while they last.


Then promise that the next thread will be: "Patentcad: I bought my Zipp 404 wheels today!"

Meh, not especially. I notice the rail-like ride quality alot more than the percieved speed gain now that I've been on them a few times. Though the first time I was on them I thought I was faster, but then the first time I drank in middle school I thought I was drunk...in hind sight neither was that true. But then, I've only been given sets to ride for short periods of time and then given them back as opposed to dropping a grand and a half on a set, so I certainly feel skeptical of them.

And from the Poor, Frustrated Racers' Bible from the book Collegiate, passage 12, lines 9-13 "Thou shalt not buy the Zipps if thou art slow and rich, thou shalt work on thy motor and sacrifice, or else I shall rain great vegance upon thee - or at least great frustration on the part that I'll never own a pair of those cool things - you idiot."

Edit (I'm pretty sure there's a book for better off folks later on in that bible, I'm just not there yet. ;) )

I notice the ride quality and the handling in the wind more than I notice a speed difference per se. I know that they accelerate quickly, and until I find a reason not to, I will continue to use them (I figure that lots of others have already done wind tunnel testing...if they have not, then I am just a sucker for advertising...oh well, sucker or not, I will use them until I read I should not)

To what other wheels are you comparing the Zipps?

Assuming you already have decent wheels, there's no way the Zipps are worth anywhere near 1mph at 27mph. No way in hell. And I say that as someone who owns a pair of Zipp wheels. Most people put the benefit of aero wheels at between 30 and 60 seconds over the course of a 1-hour 40km Time Trial. Assuming a best case scenario of 60 seconds (meaning your current wheels suck suck suck), that's 0.4 mph.

--Steve

Part of it is conditions. Deep aero wheels in crosswinds to me feel noticeably faster, they are a handful then sometimes but they are quicker, think sailboat.

Above 30 I notice that I have to put in less effort to keep things rolling at that speed.

Assuming a best case scenario of 60 seconds (meaning your current wheels suck suck suck), that's 0.4 mph.

--Steve

I'll TAKE it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sometimes 30mph = you're still there and 29.6mph = you're gone. The amount of watts my little pathetic legs can generate will not necessarily vary. And yes I am killing myself with intervals, hill repeats, eating nothing, praying at the altar of St. Dura Ah Chee, etc.

My new 404 tubulars feel amazing i was coasting past a pack that was pedaling down a hill this weekend.

My new 404 tubulars feel amazing i was coasting past a pack that was pedaling down a hill this weekend.

Thank you. That of course is what I wanted to hear.

The truth will be revealed in all its lactic ugliness regardless. No doubt.

just buy them! no need to be rational here!

My new 404 tubulars feel amazing i was coasting past a pack that was pedaling down a hill this weekend.
so either the wheels are awesome, or you're really fat.

Or both!

Dude....seriously....JUST BUY THE ****ING WHEELS....

Oh, and while you're at it, put a deposit on the System6.

Dude....seriously....JUST BUY THE ****ING WHEELS....

Oh, and while you're at it, put a deposit on the System6.


But tormenting all of the collective BF Race Brain Trust with my hand wringing is cheaper and funner.

And no System Six for me this season. I'll wait to see what everybody has up their sleeve for the 2008 model year which is nigh anon mon petit weenies. July/August (2008 model year intro time) is but a few weeks away.

Hmm.

Well....in that case, here's what you do.....

Buy the set of 404's and send them to me for extensive testing. Let's say 3 months. If they can make me faster, they can make anyone faster. Then you will have your answer. And as an added feature, your wheels will be all nice and broken in for ya. Or perhaps just plain broken, depending on potholage.

Either way, it's a win-win situation for everyone involved.

But tormenting all of the collective BF Race Brain Trust with my hand wringing is cheaper and funner.


That's a good enough reason.
On the other hand, I thought one of patentcad's rules was that if you can't ride like a pro you can at least look like one. By that measure, you should have the wheels already.

That's a good enough reason.
On the other hand, I thought one of patentcad's rules was that if you can't ride like a pro you can at least look like one. By that measure, you should have the wheels already.

At least I wear one iPod earphone while riding on group rides and tell everybody it's my team radio.

^^^^^^^^^
ahahahhaa

Buy the damn wheels before we form a BF lynch mob and hunt you down like the indecisive bike weenie you are.

But tormenting all of the collective BF Race Brain Trust with my hand wringing is cheaper and funner.

And no System Six for me this season. I'll wait to see what everybody has up their sleeve for the 2008 model year which is nigh anon mon petit weenies. July/August (2008 model year intro time) is but a few weeks away.


I heard there is high praise from Liquigas about the Synapse SL.

Get the clinchers.

Buy the damn wheels before we form a BF lynch mob and hunt you down like the indecisive bike weenie you are.

I would prefer to be burned @ the stake like that witch Floyd Landis.

I would prefer to be burned @ the stake like that witch Floyd Landis.


That can be arranged...I'm just a hop, skip, and a jump from Salem.

Buy the wheels, would you?

That can be arranged...I'm just a hop, skip, and a jump from Salem.

Buy the wheels, would you?

I will buy them, race with them once, get shelled, and think that the answer is Lew borons for morons wheels @ 4K+. I will be back for even more hand wringing and teeth gnashing as you all threaten me with assault, burning, death, etc.

The fun never ends @ BF if Pcad has anything to say about it boys.

In the meantime if you need me I'll be the slow guy with the trick bike/wheels bleeding off the back.

Yes, you'll get shelled. But everybody will be casting long, envious glances at your wheels as they blow by you like you're standing still.

Yes, you'll get shelled. But everybody will be casting long, envious glances at your wheels as they blow by you like you're standing still.

Exactly. So I will have that going for me.

You could change your name to pariahcad...

You could change your name to pariahcad...

I am widely hated under my current moniker. Why confuse the weenie masses?

Regardless, this discussion is several levels above your Weenie Grade, and I can no longer respond to your redundant taunts.

I'm a lot of things, but I ain't not redundant.

Get the clinchers.

X2.

you'll buy the 404s thinking they'll only be used for racing but they look & perform so damn good that you won't want to take them off. i flatted 8-10 times last year on my 404 clinchers and it was nice just throwing a new tube in there & continuing my ride.

i love the look & weight savings of the tubulars but since they weren't coming off anytime soon the clinchers were the way to go.

Thank you. That of course is what I wanted to hear.

The truth will be revealed in all its lactic ugliness regardless. No doubt.


The only thing I will tell you is if you buy the Zipps do NOT use Tufo Extreme tape on them.

I have been hearing stories from both the Tufo distributor and the Zipp people that the Extreme Tape is resulting in fiber tear on Zipp wheels.

Use glue for best results.

yeah, it's a heap of a lot of money for maybe 1kph. :)

I've been going nuts lately, trying to figure out if any of these types of wheels are worth it for anything but time-trials.

According to the "Great Wheel Test", the 'aero' wheels are only 10 watts more efficient than a $200 pair of Mavic Aksiums! According to the Kreuzotter calculator, 10 watts, at or around 30mph, provides a speed increase of 0.3mph on flat roads. If an aero wheel is 20 watts more efficient than a normal wheel (32 spokeds) at the same speeds, that's about a 0.5mph increase.
http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm

There are obviously other benefits with good wheels, such as stiffness and hub quality, but I reckon it's the aerodynamics that gives the real, quantifiable speed difference.

http://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-4934445.html


...............................watts absorbed at 50kph

Zipp 808......................................18.1
Ritchey WCS Carbon....................19.3
HED Hed 3...................................19.7
Vuelta Carbon Pro WR.................20.8
Easton Tempest II Carbon...........21.6
CKT Splendor................................21.7
Mavic Cosmic Carbone SL.............21.9
Shimano WH-7801 Carbon 50......22.9
Campagnolo Bora G3....................23.0
Rose Aerospoke...........................23.0
Corima Turbospoke ......................23.1
Bntrga Race X Lite Crbn aero........23.4
Fulcrum Racing Speed...................23.7
Gipiemme Carbon 5-5...................24.1
Tune Olympic Gold 2005................24.1
Shimano WH-7801 Carbon............24.4
FRM FL-R 23 SD Aerolight..............24.6
Corima Aero..................................24.7
Lightweight Obermayer................24.8
Xentis Mark 1................................25.0
Citec 3000S Aero..........................25.5
Shimano WH-R560........................26.1
Lightweight Ventoux/Standard.....27.3
Campagnolo Eurus........................27.8
Tune Skyline 2006.........................28.1
FSA RD-600...................................28.7
Mavic Aksium Race........................30.0
Citec 3000S..................................30.6
Ambrosio X-Carbo.........................31.5
Campagnolo Hyperon...................32.1
Mavic Ksyrium ES..........................33.2

i laugh out loud each time you mention the hand wringing and teeth gnashing

i picture Mr Burns getting ready to buy a bike

i laugh out loud each time you mention the hand wringing and teeth gnashing

i picture Mr Burns getting ready to buy a bike

It's ALL about the 'getting ready' part. That's exciting. Actually acquring the schwag is like the cigarette after sex.

Wait, this might be the wrong room for that joke. Any ex-smokers here?

It's ALL about the 'getting ready' part. That's exciting. Actually acquring the schwag is like the cigarette after sex.

Wait, this might be the wrong room for that joke. Any ex-smokers here?

yes.

It's ALL about the 'getting ready' part. That's exciting. Actually acquring the schwag is like the cigarette after sex.

Wait, this might be the wrong room for that joke. Any ex-smokers here?

Yep, and I used to be very good friends with Mr Glenlivet and Mr Glenfiddich and few illicit drugs as well. But I was younger and my body was able to take the abuse...now not so much. Of course if had a set Zipp 404 tuburlars to look forward too I would have quit doing all those things even earlier...go buy the wheels you swissy, weenie, you are worse than a woman trying to decide on a pair of shoes. Next thing you are going to be asking if we think you look fat in your kit. Well you do, so get over it and buy the wheels.

It's ALL about the 'getting ready' part. That's exciting. Actually acquring the schwag is like the cigarette after sex.

Wait, this might be the wrong room for that joke. Any ex-smokers here?


Smoked for 17 years. Stopped 7/15/05.

Yep, and I used to be very good friends with Mr Glenlivet and Mr Glenfiddich and few illicit drugs as well. But I was younger and my body was able to take the abuse...now not so much. Of course if had a set Zipp 404 tuburlars to look forward too I would have quit doing all those things even earlier...go buy the wheels you swissy, weenie, you are worse than a woman trying to decide on a pair of shoes. Next thing you are going to be asking if we think you look fat in your kit. Well you do, so get over it and buy the wheels.

i still get together with those guys when the opportunity arises.

It's ALL about the 'getting ready' part. That's exciting. Actually acquring the schwag is like the cigarette after sex.

Wait, this might be the wrong room for that joke. Any ex-smokers here?

Does three packs a day count? I quit 2/21/01 and started riding to reward myself. I figured I would still spend less money than I did on cigarettes. I was wrong!

On a side note, how much faster do you think the 404's would be than the Spinergy Stealth PBO's that I have?

As usual on BF, sorry I asked.

As usual on BF, sorry I asked.

and well you should be. now go stand in the corner.

On a side note, how much faster do you think the 404's would be than the Spinergy Stealth PBO's that I have?

The only way to know is to buy the 404's and send both wheelsets to me. I will take the time and test them extensively for you.

As usual on BF, sorry I asked.

You expected?.......

The only way to know is to buy the 404's and send both wheelsets to me. I will take the time and test them extensively for you.

I might consider this if you agree to start smoking again before you commence the test program.

i still get together with those guys when the opportunity arises.

Is that when you display your dancing skills?

I might consider this if you agree to start smoking again before you commence the test program.

can i volunteer?

one of my favorite cycling moments in recent years was seeing the shocked looks on the faces of a bunch of cyclists when i pulled a cigarette out of my saddle bag after finishing my first Gran Fondo.

nothing like a smokey treat after 7 hours of riding ;)

Is that when you display your dancing skills?

no need to for alcohol to bust a move.

Is Nicotine on the UCI list of banned substances? I think if you test positive for that you should be given a 10 second time bonus.

Yep, and I used to be very good friends with Mr Glenlivet and Mr Glenfiddich

Nope - Longmorn-Glenlivet. Tasty.