Tandem Cycling - building tandem wheels

I have a set of 48 hole Velocity Dyad rims and some Phil Wood hubs. Could people here give me opinions of whether to lace these 4 or 5 cross? The total weight of myself and my stoker is ~ 300 pounds, but we'd also be riding with 20 - 40 pounds of gear from time to time.

FYI, I have plenty of spokes to make the wheels in a 4 cross pattern. If I wanted to do 5 cross, I'd have to buy another 50 or so spokes. Would there be much of a "real world" difference between the two cross patterns?


Thanks in advance!

I'm not sure you'll have room to go 5-cross... you start to have interference at the spoke bends with adjacent spokes on the same side of the flange (2-over neighbors). You may have this problem with 4-cross, though I'm not sure where the spoke circle diameter and spoke count meet up to cause this problem. It's going to be pretty crowded at the hub though.

At any rate, there's little to be gained going higher than 3-cross for wheel strength. Conversely, there's not much downside to going 4-cross.

I'm not sure you'll have room to go 5-cross... you start to have interference at the spoke bends with adjacent spokes on the same side of the flange (2-over neighbors). You may have this problem with 4-cross, though I'm not sure where the spoke circle diameter and spoke count meet up to cause this problem. It's going to be pretty crowded at the hub though.

I take it you've never built a 4x 40h or a 5x 48h wheel?

Would there be much of a "real world" difference between the two cross patterns?

No, not for the type of weight you're cited. 4x should be more than adequate.

A 48h wheel laced 5x is certainly bomb proof and is typically what you spec. for a very large tandem team (450lb+) or multi-seat tandems (triplets, quads, quints) that will be supporting adult stokers.

I take it you've never built a 4x 40h or a 5x 48h wheel?
Correct. Wouldn't it be more helpful do address my errors above than just ask another question? Seems a better way to learn.

Thanks for all of the replys -- that was quick! I'll build these up with a 4-cross pattern, since I already have the proper length spokes. Again, thanks!

Correct. Wouldn't it be more helpful do address my errors above than just ask another question? Seems a better way to learn.

I did.... you need to put your eyes and perhaps your hands on some 40h 4x and 48h 5x tandem wheels. This experience would yield the "ah hah!" that holds the answer to your concerns.

In short, the higher the spoke count, the larger the flange and the closer together the spokes become around the radius of the rim. These factors are what allow you to lace higher spoke count wheels with a greater number of crosses.

In my youth I built up my BMX wheels 48 4 cross. I know the forces are more of a one off large force with a BMX rather than a large constant force + inpact forces witha tandem but I would expect the peak force which the wheel has to with stand and fairly similar.

I did.... you need to put your eyes and perhaps your hands on some 40h 4x and 48h 5x tandem wheels. This experience would yield the "ah hah!" that holds the answer to your concerns.

In short, the higher the spoke count, the larger the flange and the closer together the spokes become around the radius of the rim. These factors are what allow you to lace higher spoke count wheels with a greater number of crosses.

Ok, that makes sense, I'm remembering those tradeoffs now. Less spokes = less crosses. More spokes = more possibilities.

Ok, that makes sense, I'm remembering those tradeoffs now. Less spokes = less crosses. More spokes = more possibilities.

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

I have a set of 48 hole Velocity Dyad rims and some Phil Wood hubs. Could people here give me opinions of whether to lace these 4 or 5 cross?

Our triple has 48 x 4 cross. It handles 500+ lbs just fine.