Fifty Plus (50+) - What’s up with these social club races?

I am cycling with a local cycling club and lately noticed that I enjoy it less and less.

The main reason is that every ride end up being a race and groups brake apart.

How do I get a group to stay together, race up the hill but regroup, pace line, help each other? This is a culture change question.

Long post but it reflects frustrations…

You sound as though you've been riding with our club. We ended last season with many folks sharing your sentiments.

This year our beginner ride offers an A & a B group. A goes out a little faster, but not more than 18 mph. B group goes out next so they don't get discouraged watching the As pull away. It's only the second week of the club rides & already we're getting good feedback.

Have you spoken to the ride leader about making an announcement prior to the ride, addressing your concerns? Another alternative is to ride with just those who want to ride as you describe -- pace line, rotating pulls, etc. Let the racers go.

Good luck -- hope you get that worked out to your liking.

How do I get a group to stay together, race up the hill but regroup, pace line, help each other? This is a culture change question.

Long post but it reflects frustrations…

Get offroad. One of the rules for experienced Offroaders is that you never ride on your own. Anything can happen so it just is not done. It does not matter how fit or unfit the members of the group are- They always regroup- At the top of a Hill- after a 5 mile flat section- or there is a crossroad or the like.

Come the hills and everyone takes their own speed. Different fitness levels, ages or how much effort you want to put in. I can assure you that after a mile slog up a muddy track at 15%- any group will be spread out. Same on the flatter bits- Some can power on for miles when the track is just technical or across the top of the hills. Now downhill- You never ride that close together. Stones being thrown at you from the bike in front- The bike at the side of you suddenly doing a Left turn into you- or even the rider falling off and blocking the track.

I do know what you mean though as I have been out with riders that seem to have their own agenda on rides. That is to be at the front Slaughtering everyone else. You never ride with them- you are just doing the same route--- And that is how I treat it. I do my own ride at my own pace and I enjoy it.

I confess, I tend to get away from my group from time to time. They're usually at least in sight when I get to the restaurant, but I could do better with regrouping more often.

Yea, I am not sure your group is alone in this idiosyncracy... I ride with a casual riding group and we too have those who run ahead (sometimes me) but there is always someone to "be a group" with, (yes sometimes I stay back with the slower ones. Guess I agree with Red Rider...voice your concern and or opinion on what you expect from the ride.

The last time I rode with a club, I got dropped like a hot rock in a hot rock dropping contest. That was almost 20 years ago. Since then, I either ride alone or with a select few friends who are comfortable riding at a sauntering pace.

We have A, B and C rides. It's a relatively small club, and everyone watches out for each other. If you join an A ride, and get dropped immediately, you should have known better, but.... I've never seen any ride leave anyone intentionally.

I feel really fortunate to ride with the club I'm in, and have been helped along on numerous occasions by others. Of course, some people always want to get to the top of the hill first, or try to blow up the peloton on a long stretch of rollers :rolleyes: . It may help that the average club members' age is 50+.

There are times when on a group ride that we all hang together with an unspoken but mutually set pace-- and what a joy to make up that rolling organism that can go for miles. Still, my experience is that unless it's a purely conversational, friend ride, most group rides seem to break up at some point, then reform. Sometimes I just can't hold the pace with strong, young riders; sometimes I myself just like to surge ahead for the joy of zip and to push myself. I ride with friends more than formally with the local club. Being friends, we wait and re-organize every so often. Some people are fitter earlier in the year, some people need to take time off and have lost their edge, some are younger, some just more gifted or just less gifted.

Nobody likes to get dropped, but then nobody seems to think less of anyone who does fall behind. And, thankful to say, nobody ever gets left alone in the group I ride with.... somebody appoints themselves as stay-behind-with-the-slowest-guy designee-- and this usually rotates during a longer ride. When riders spread out because of inherent fitness or ability differences, that's different than the competitive "I will make you suffer and then destroy you" tone of some rides I've sat in on and happily abandoned.

I'm lucky to have some pretty nice riding friends because, while I like solo rides for what they offer, I also like the rolling camaraderie of group rides, too. But I do understand where the OP is coming from...it's just hard to find a group of evenly skilled riders-- or riders with the same goals for a ride.

Plus, it sometimes only takes one testosterone drenched butthead to break up an otherwise harmonious ride.... a sort of real-time troll.

Had an experience just yesterday which points up why group ride can oft' times go astray.
I'm doing strength training rides currently, and needed to ride at AT max ystd for a couple of 15min efforts. As I come out onto the main road I use for my routes, I see several of the local club riders out for the regular Tues PM ride ahead. I'm alone, as I don't belong to this club. I'm hammering along trying to keep my HR up, and think as I approach, "This will not be pretty". Sure enough, I pass by and get probably a min or 2 ahead, when, here they come!!! They run out about the same distance ahead, then slow their pace. Here I come again, as I still have about 7-8 min left on this effort. This time, as I pass, I say my "Hello's" again, and just mention I'm pushing to train at AT. Guess what? This time,nobody feels the need to hammer to keep up and I go merrily along on my drill.
Testosterone is a very volatile fuel, prone to explode at any moment:rolleyes:

Had an experience just yesterday which points up why group ride can oft' times go astray.
I'm doing strength training rides currently, and needed to ride at AT max ystd for a couple of 15min efforts. As I come out onto the main road I use for my routes, I see several of the local club riders out for the regular Tues PM ride ahead. I'm alone, as I don't belong to this club. I'm hammering along trying to keep my HR up, and think as I approach, "This will not be pretty". Sure enough, I pass by and get probably a min or 2 ahead, when, here they come!!! They run out about the same distance ahead, then slow their pace. Here I come again, as I still have about 7-8 min left on this effort. This time, as I pass, I say my "Hello's" again, and just mention I'm pushing to train at AT. Guess what? This time,nobody feels the need to hammer to keep up and I go merrily along on my drill.
Testosterone is a very volatile fuel, prone to explode at any moment:rolleyes:

:roflmao: If you had been riding in my area I could probably put a name on one of the riders. He can't stand for anyone to pass him.....especially an older woman:rolleyes:

15 years ago I was a solid class B club rider, with no aspirations to "improve". The mindset among most of the riders in my club was that everyone should strive for improvement. To me, being a good cyclist does not necessarily mean being a fast cyclist, it can mean many things. I, for one, am not impressed with fast.
I've known some riders who were very fast but were terrible cyclists.

These days, I would love to find some serious riding companions but am reluctant to rejoin the club scene. I have thought of trying to start an informal riding group, but as an organizer I am a solid class F.

It's like that around here quite a bit. I show up for a slower rated ride now, and tell them I'll be chugging along behind them on my recliner, and not to worry if I don't keep up.

I am the OP. Thanks for all the replies; in summary, there is something about this ‘mob’ effect, all you need is one or a few to destroy a perfect ride (which can still be a great workout, structured, and a nice group effort).

My club have the A,B,C, etc. categories but people of various levels show-up to all rides and therefore the system breaks. I can not change the ‘rules’ for the official/Scheduled/Monthly rides but we do have ‘ad-hoc’ rides. So, before giving up on that club, based on some of the comments above, I will propose rides with the following guidelines and see how it goes.

------------------------------
‘A NON-RACE’ Rides
(I am open for any constructive comments regarding the following).

These rides are for experienced cyclists with developed group-riding skills.

The purpose of the following 'non-race' ride guidelines is to enhance the experience/enjoinment of those that are looking to ride as a group, pace-line, frequent regrouping, friendly support, at a published pace, without the pressure of a race.

- We ride club Tours/Q-sheets, sign-up is required and all club rules are applied
- We stay together for the first 30 minutes (warm-up) ???NOT SURE ABOUT THIS ONE
- We ride at an average 15-18mph with C to B terrains (slower at the beginning of the session)
- No stops on rides shorter than 35 miles (or as the group decided up front). On longer rides stopping every 25-30 miles
- We will ride in a pace-line, at the group pace (terrain dictated), taking turns on pulls. If there's a big enough group, we will split into slower and faster pace-lines (notify ride leader)
- Hills are on your own; but since there will be plenty of them, we regroup at the top of each
- We stop if there is a mechanical problem; no one is left alone to deal with a flat, etc.


Hopefully you'll join us. But if it's not for you, we completely understand, and look forward to seeing you on some regular club rides later in the season.

** This may become a NEW ride ‘classification’ so we expect that participants will lead such rides (the club, as with other ‘regular’ scheduled rides, will provide coordination). If you've never led, you can team up with someone that has (mentor) or can sweep.

See you on the road.
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I started riding with my club in 1989 and moved away for a few years, then came back. It took a while both times to find the right group to ride with, but I have made some very good friends there and enjoy most of the rides a great deal. Sometimes when certain fast riders come along, I know it's going to be too fast for me, but they will usually wait so they can tease me and have some comic relief.

John , maybe we are fortunate to have such a large and active club in our area ( 500 members).
Everybody will find their riding peers in such a large group . To the OP give it some time , get fit , make friends and eventually you will find your riding niche.

One of the things I like about the club I ride with is the relative lack of organization
and imposed rules.
The rides are graded 1 thru 5 (easy > hard). You pick the ride you
want and join the group. All groups on Saturday rides split and regroup throughout the ride.
The rockets go off the front, then some fall back to ride in the big bunch. Each ride has it's own dynamic
depending on how individuals feel that day etc. Reminds me of a bunch of little kids on recess. Some go tearing
around in circles, some just hang out and talk with their friends.

Sunday rides are shorter (usually slower) and usually a little more conversational with a lengthy snack stop
that seems to be getting longer as the weather gets warmer.

cnudell,
I have never ridden on a club ride. I seldom ride with anyone but my wife who keeps me on pace. Most days I ride alone.

I went through this a few years ago when planning a cross country tour: go alone or ride with others. I chose to go alone because it always turns out that one of the riders is forced to ride above his desired pace. Even when on tour when I would meet someone we would ride together for awhile, but the pace was never right for both of us. Soon one would gracefully bow out. I met six or seven single riders who had began their cross country tours with small groups of old friends. In each instance the breakup of the small groups came about because someone was too slow and someone was too fast.

I am sure that local clubs could write some complex rule about how rides will be conducted in an effort to please everyone. But I doubt it would be successful for all rides and for all riders. It is just the nature of the ride. Different levels of fittness, different goals for specific rides, and the old competitive thing.

I am in control of my pace. Not the rider in front, nor the rider in the back. I'm in control of my pace. If people wish to ride with me, they will vary their pace accordingly, if not, no hard feelings. I usually ride with 4 or 5 people I've ridden with for years. Over the course of the years, we've all been at different fitness levels. Sometimes a well oiled machine, sometimes a rusty old cog. One thing we have in common, we all know what goes around comes around. Every dog has his day. Live and let live. I've been dropped before, and hopefully I'll be dropped again, it's all fun and games (till someone loses an eye.. right?). On the few rides in past years where I've been a well oiled machine, I've dropped friends, but every one of them has dropped me at one time or another. We still drink beer together, we still go out to dinner with our families, we're still good friends, drawn together by the thread to cycling. Life's too short to worry about keeping the group together when there are people within the group who desire to cycle at a different rate of speed. Let them go, if they're friends and enjoying themselves, they'll come back again.

Simple solution. Ride by yourself. Works for me.

+1 with card. I encounter many people I know during my rides and although I will pace them for a while and chat eventually I will head off on my own again.

I think that this is due to the relatively early hours that I ride and the fact that I ride the farther out less traveled portions of the trail. This also leaves more time to go off to look at things and take pictures, examine new areas, look at houses for project ideas and generally use the bike my way.

Serotta-very well said.

I (OP) may need to refine my original post…

I am also guilty of riding fast/slow, dropping/get dropped, stopping/not stopping with the group for lunch, etc.

I guess my proposal to the club will be: to create a new category of rides, for experience riders, skilled in pace-line (18-20mph), regrouping, helping each other, etc. (see previous post for the rule list I came up with). Racing teams train like this…I am jut trying to create a similar environment for slower riders…if there will be interest…

If people choose to come to these rides, we need to work together to make this experience succeed. Again, this is a specific ride type/classification not a complain about somebody who feels strong one day and we try to slow him/her down.

On all other club rides, each rider for him/herself…

I mostly ride alone. On Club rides, seems like I am always the one to wants to putter along at a pace slower than everyone else. I ride mostly at a 14-17 mph pace, much slower on hills. Years ago, thinner and fitter, I was one of those who rocketed off the front. I would wait periodically for folks to catch up. Now others wait for me. But in all honesty, I don't really want them to wait, as as soon as we get going they are going to go off again, so i ask what the point? But sometimes I do like to ride with a group, and have some nice chatty conversation. Whats an old overweight formerly good rider to do? I am going to try and force myself to do more intervals this years, and see If I can pick up enough speed to keep up with some other folks.

These days, I would love to find some serious riding companions but am reluctant to rejoin the club scene. I have thought of trying to start an informal riding group, but as an organizer I am a solid class F.
Louis, where did you learn how to ride backwards? Kidding, and I'd ride with you if saw you going back in time through my neighborhood.

RIDE CLASSIFICATIONS:
F - DISTORTION OF TIME-SPACE CONTINUUM. AMS from 0 to -15 mph. May result in time-travel.
D - CASUAL RIDES. 5 to 15 miles, Average Moving Speed (AMS) from 8 to 10 mph, but may vary depending on terrain, traffic, and ability of riders. Frequent stops, every 5 miles. Terrain should be flat or rolling.
C - SHORT TOURING. 30 miles or less in length. AMS from 10 to 12 mph. Uphill slows down substantially. Stops planned every 5 to 10 miles.
CC - EASY TOURING. AMS between 12 and 13 mph; cruising speeds may reach 15 mph. Uphill pace slows down substantially. Stops every 10 to 15 miles.
B - TOURING. AMS between 13.1 and 15.0 mph; cruising speeds may reach 18 mph. Uphill pace slows down quite a bit. Rest stops every 10 to 15 miles.
A - FAST TOURING. AMS between 15.1 and 17.0 mph. Riders on fast touring work to keep up the pace on hills. Rest stops planned every 15 to 25 miles.
AA - FAST TRAINING. AMS between 17.1 to 19.+ mph. Pace lines approach 25 mph. Rest stops every 25 to 50 miles.

Louis, where did you learn how to ride backwards? Kidding, and I'd ride with you if saw you going back in time through my neighborhood.

RIDE CLASSIFICATIONS:
F - DISTORTION OF TIME-SPACE CONTINUUM. AMS from 0 to -15 mph. May result in time-travel.
D - CASUAL RIDES. 5 to 15 miles, Average Moving Speed (AMS) from 8 to 10 mph, but may vary depending on terrain, traffic, and ability of riders. Frequent stops, every 5 miles. Terrain should be flat or rolling.
C - SHORT TOURING. 30 miles or less in length. AMS from 10 to 12 mph. Uphill slows down substantially. Stops planned every 5 to 10 miles.
CC - EASY TOURING. AMS between 12 and 13 mph; cruising speeds may reach 15 mph. Uphill pace slows down substantially. Stops every 10 to 15 miles.
B - TOURING. AMS between 13.1 and 15.0 mph; cruising speeds may reach 18 mph. Uphill pace slows down quite a bit. Rest stops every 10 to 15 miles.
A - FAST TOURING. AMS between 15.1 and 17.0 mph. Riders on fast touring work to keep up the pace on hills. Rest stops planned every 15 to 25 miles.
AA - FAST TRAINING. AMS between 17.1 to 19.+ mph. Pace lines approach 25 mph. Rest stops every 25 to 50 miles.

:roflmao: I have some spotty memories of weird, confusing, time discrepancies. Uh...I think...:o

Going by your ride classifications chart, I would have been a class "A" rider. We did not have a class "AA", class "A" was the highest we had...that was where the amateur racers were riding.

so...this winter I trained right and can keep up/lead strong pace-line. Getting dropped is not an issue.

This weekend a group of us got together for a ride but the ride leader did not show-up (the leader provides the cue-sheets for the ride).

This was the best ride in a long time; no breakaways, no racing, just strong ride with lots of regrouping. We had only 1-2 people with the cue-sheets that knew where we are going.

So, maybe the answer is to ride without distributing cue-sheets to the whole group!