Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - building my first Wheel, 32 hole Deep V

So, I now have two Deep V rims, white 700c, with 32 holes. I also have I.R.O. flip flop hubs from sheldon Brown. Also, a Truing stand and spoke wrench. Now I need to buy spokes and get to building. I was going to buy nashbar ones and i need to know what size.

do these look like good spokes? http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=&subcategory=&brand=&sku=16122&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=Show%20All%20Products


also I have looked a spoke calculator and have no clue how to use it. any tips?

thanks
kirk

I'd have your LBS calculate spoke length. And while you're there, buy the spokes. They should have any size you'll need, where Nashbar only offers those few. Double butted (in the link) is nice, but straight gauge (14) is cheaper and should be plenty strong for you.

I'd have your LBS calculate spoke length. And while you're there, buy the spokes. They should have any size you'll need, where Nashbar only offers those few. Double butted (in the link) is nice, but straight gauge (14) is cheaper and should be plenty strong for you.

Harris Cyclery claims: "Straight gauge spokes $.60 each. (Not recommended, this is a poor place to cut corners--butted spokes build a more reliable wheel.)"

I don't know if I agree, but double butted spokes are definitely the way to go. Your LBS should not charge more than a $1 p/spoke. I use the spokes calculator on the DT Swiss site. It works pretty well. The web is FULL of spokes calculating help, but the best one I have ever encountered is the one on Bike-a-log, which is only availible to bike shops.

I used straight (non-swaged) spokes on one of my builds as they were the only ones conveniently available at the time; my LBS cut them for me, as nowadays it's not worth stocking dozens of different spoke lengths and have them collect dust and use up space, so they cut them to length as needed. They worked great, but I noticed that occasionally there would be a "pinging" from the rear-wheel, always when in bottom gear, and usually when cranking hard. The dishing was fine, and the derailleur was adjusted correctly and yet I couldn't get rid of this pinging from the RD touching the spokes; I rebuilt the wheel using exactly the same lacing pattern and tension, but with double-butted spokes, and the problem went away (FWIW).

- Wil

My wheels are built with 14g spokes. They work fine. No pings.

Go to the LBS, and have them figure out the length for you if you aren't sure. Get some DT's or Wheelsmith spokes, generics have no place in wheel-building.

BRASS NIPPLES!!!!

dt > wheelsmith

from what i hear from my shop peeps.

doublebutted is defintiely nice if you got the $.

Someone else should confirm this before you trust me alone, but I believe that combo uses 281mm spokes.

Also, this is the best deal youre going to find for double butted spokes: 72 sapim double butted spokes for $38 after shipping (http://cgi.ebay.com/72-New-Sapim-Race-14-15-DT-Stainless-Spokes-Nipples_W0QQitemZ320095936436QQcategoryZ36144QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

Brass nipples yes, and 14mm would be better than the usual 12mm.

do these look like good spokes?

also I have looked a spoke calculator and have no clue how to use it. any tips?


If it's not DT Swiss or Sapim, I don't give a rat's ass. Seriously - double-butted quality spokes are dead cheap and worth the expenditure in reducing the amount of re-truing grief you'll have.

Buy more spokes than you need. You'll need at least one extra, to get the nipples through the deep-section of the rim without dropping them.

Spoke calculator: sit down with a tape-measure. Measure everything twice. Then put the numbers into the calculator. Bosh.

Also: take it easy. For the first couple of times, it's a slow, iterative process. Once you're laced-up, the truing can take a while. Don't let it get you down if it feels like you're not getting anywhere. Just put everything down and come back to it the next day. It's easier to do 3x 20min truing sessions than sit there for an hour, fuming.

I'm going to go ahead and say Wheelsmith>DT Swiss. The elbows are shorter on WS, and the luster is less shiny and gawdy. WS has just the right shine.

Use Brass nipples.

Haha, I just found that the DT Swiss Spokes Calc doesn't even have any Velocity Rims in their data base. Lame.

Buy more spokes than you need. You'll need at least one extra, to get the nipples through the deep-section of the rim without dropping them.

getting the nipples through the rim can be done more easily with a kebab skewer, but yes, buy a couple extra, you shouldn't ever break one if all is built properly but better safe than sorry, to coin a phrase

I noticed that occasionally there would be a "pinging" from the rear-wheel, always when in bottom gear, and usually when cranking hard. The dishing was fine, and the derailleur was adjusted correctly and yet I couldn't get rid of this pinging from the RD touching the spokes; I rebuilt the wheel using exactly the same lacing pattern and tension, but with double-butted spokes, and the problem went away (FWIW).

- Wil

that pinging is the sound of the spokes de-torquing.
after the wheel has been laced and trued first you have to bend the spokes around each other with a lever (old crank or butter knife works), re-tru, then put the wheel horizontally on the ground and with yr hands on opposite sides of the rim press down, rotate, press down, flip wheel over, repeat and re-tru.

there is no complete data base of hub and rim dimensions, but i have found that damon rinard.com (http://www.damonrinard.com/spocalc.htm) is a fairly comprehensive and accurate source.

wheel building is rad!
good luck!

+1 on "don't buy straight gauge spokes." if you are that broke, you shouldn't be building your own wheel, but rather buying a machine-built (it is often cheaper)

Here's an article on one reason you might want to use Wheelsmith.

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/DTspokes.htm

that pinging is the sound of the spokes de-torquing.
after the wheel has been laced and trued first you have to bend the spokes around each other with a lever (old crank or butter knife works), re-tru, then put the wheel horizontally on the ground and with yr hands on opposite sides of the rim press down, rotate, press down, flip wheel over, repeat and re-tru.

there is no complete data base of hub and rim dimensions, but i have found that damon rinard.com (http://www.damonrinard.com/spocalc.htm) is a fairly comprehensive and accurate source.

wheel building is rad!
good luck!

I agree with you that often the pinging is exactly what you describe, and I concur with your solution (I find a nipple-driver to be the ideal tool), however in my case the pinging was the spokes hitting the derailleur cage, proven by tweaking the adjustment on the RD. Yes, the Damon Rinard information is very good; I have an Excel spreadsheet file which came from that site, it has lots of rim and hub data, and a great spoke-length calculator; a very useful source indeed!

- Wil

then put the wheel horizontally on the ground and with yr hands on opposite sides of the rim press down, rotate, press down, flip wheel over, repeat and re-tru.

I think jobst brandt actually says this is bad for the wheel. if the point is stress-relieving, you can easily do that by just squeezing pairs of spokes together in the same plane as the wheel. wheels dont hold up to lateral stress nearly as well as they do to radial

Yup, squeeze pairs of spokes together to stress relieve. When you're putting the last bit of tension on the spoke, overshoot by about an eighth of a turn and back off by the same amount; this will mostly remove any windup in the spoke. If you do this properly you should have little to no pinging on the first ride. Don't forget to press the spoke ends against the hub flange once you've laced up the wheel; this will help the tension to stay constant and seat the spokes better.

Man, I want to build another wheel set now.

Has anyone ever used phil wood spokes?

Also: take it easy. For the first couple of times, it's a slow, iterative process. Once you're laced-up, the truing can take a while. Don't let it get you down if it feels like you're not getting anywhere. Just put everything down and come back to it the next day. It's easier to do 3x 20min truing sessions than sit there for an hour, fuming.

I've built several sets of wheels, and this has got to be one of the best pieces of advice I've ever read on BF.

Straight 14 gauge builds a solid wheel, but double butted will hold up a little better for a big rider (they flex more). If you're looking to save some cash, go straight (lolz). Plus they look better...

my opinion, for what it's worth:
Front: Radial 15/16g w/ brass nipples
Rear: 2X 14/15g w/ brass nipples
If it were my wheelset, thats what I would build. The DeepV's are very very strong rims. Also, I like to use a little grease on the spokes, and then as I tighten up the wheel, a drop of tri-flow at the contact point of the rim/nipple.

good luck :)

Straight 14 gauge builds a solid wheel, but double butted will hold up a little better for a big rider (they flex more). If you're looking to save some cash, go straight (lolz). Plus they look better...

well-built wheels with double butted spokes do not flex more. this is wrong.

well-built wheels with double butted spokes do not flex more. this is wrong.

you sure about that?

I meant that they have more room to flex, thus can handle heavier riders and ****ty roads better. The wheel doesn't flex, just the spoke.

building a Deep V with Formula hub. I sure people have done this combination before, but I just need to double check on the spoke length to buy online. Im doing radial front and 3x rear,can he spokes be the same length? Thanks a lot

I have been using some vintage NOS Berg 14/16 db spokes for most of my recent builds since I have a crap load of them at the shop... they are of very good quality.

I usually build 36 and 40 3x or 4x wheels most of the time as my customers tend to be utilitarian riders and tourers and after having a bunch of wheels go out on some insanely long rides this year I can say I am pretty pleased at how well they all held up under some extreme use and load.

A 32 3x track wheel is going to be plenty strong if it is built up with a Velocity Deep V, a good hub, and decent spokes... and if the build is done right.

If your derailer is hitting the spokes there is something wrong with the bike... it could be a bent hangar or a bent derailer causing the problem or the rear d might just be set up wrong.

The length is fairly common.

Tips:
-Brass nipples. Alloy strip too easily.
-Grease every spoke thread before installation into a nipple, or else you won't be able to get high tension.
-Don't be afraid during tensioning when stuff gets hard to turn. Just don't turn so hard you strip a nipple.
-When getting initial tension it is better to go around the wheel doing 2 turns, then 1 more, than a half turn than doing 3.5-4 turns at once. You will not get a proper wheel that way.
-True the wheel radially (for hops) before vertical. It's a lot easier to get out a hop or flat spot initially.
-Don't sweat tiny hops or flat spots (2mm or less).

-You can get proper tension by using musical pitch. Strike the spokes at the cross and listen for a ping. For a Deep V/Forumula combo you want it to be a F# ideally. Of course you can't tension every spoke pair to a F# and call it done because all rims have some imperfections and you won't have each spoke exactly as tight or loose as another. No spoke pair should deviate more than two semitones (ideally, one semitone) up or down. So F should be the lowest and G the highest.

-To get nipples through the deep section I actually stuff a small precision flathead driver into the round opening in the top of the nipple, it just fits perfectly.

-Tension release after every major truing step!

-Get a Park horseshoe shaped spoke wrench, one of those circular combo wrenches will strip the hell out of your spokes as soon as you tension them.

pics when done

building a Deep V with Formula hub. I sure people have done this combination before, but I just need to double check on the spoke length to buy online. Im doing radial front and 3x rear,can he spokes be the same length? Thanks a lot

anyone know the length?

there are online spoke length calculators, search via google

building a Deep V with Formula hub. I sure people have done this combination before, but I just need to double check on the spoke length to buy online. Im doing radial front and 3x rear,can he spokes be the same length? Thanks a lot

Answers:


I'd have your LBS calculate spoke length. And while you're there, buy the spokes.

If you don't want to buy your spokes at the LBS, then you're going to have to learn how to use a spoke calculator (http://sheldonbrown.com/rinard/spocalc.htm) ... you're not going to learn anything if we just tell you some magic number.

As some have said, straight-gauge spokes will do the job just fine. If you want double-butted, your shop could probably order them for you. If not, then walk away with your freshly-calculated spoke lengths and order them online. www.bikepartsetc.com has great deals on nice Sapim double-butted spokes.

A radial front and 3x rear most definitely do not use the same length spokes. You should probably spend a little more time thinking about why this is the case before you build this wheel.

Deep V's w/ Formula hubs is probably the most common setup around, both of which should be in the spoke calculator above. Are you good with excel? You should be able to figure it out after a few minutes if you take your time and follow the directions.

However, I commend you for wanting to build your own wheels - and good luck.