Road Cycling - Does Campy cost more than Shimano

I have been looking at posts telling me that Campy is better than Shimano, which then go on to show how corresponding lines of Campy are better, for example, Campy Mirage may be better than Tiagra. When I look at the prices, though, I find that the Campy group is priced more like the next up the Shimano food chain, so Mirage seems priced like 105, and Chorus, which is supposed to be going head to head with Ultegra, is priced more like Dura-Ace. It seems so throughout the line. If Chorus is better than Ultegra, it doesn't matter to me if it is priced like Dura-Ace- I want to know how Chorus stacks up against Dura-Ace. Again- so on throughout the line. Is mirage better than 105?
Is Centaur better than Ultegra? The only point at which it it crucial is at the very top. If I were serious about spending enough money to get Dura-Ace, then a few hundred more to get a better system, assuming the Campy Record is better, would seem like a reasonable deal.

First off let's not start a Campy vs ShimaNO debate again... :)

Basicaly chorus and record are almost exectly the same, record is just slightly lighter. And contains parts made of Ti and carbon vs steel and aluminum. So Dura-Ace is most equivelent to Chorus and then record is just a slight step above.. And centaur would be equivelent to Dura-Ace... and veloce is equivelent to 105.

agreed, if you want the debate search the road forums for "campy vs shimano"

anyhow you might pay a small premium to get campy stuff since it is made in italy but generally the prices are the same regardless where you go....

http://www.gvhbikes.com/

GVH has some good prices on groupos...

Ride them both. If you like Campag more, be prepared to go into bankruptcy!;)

hahaa the price between campy and shimano is very close. Now which is better, you can't really say it is a personal preference.

Campy Record is at the top of the heap and stands alone. At least according to the folks who rate such things at both "Bicycling" and "Velonews". Costs more for all that Ti and graphite. They also state that Chorus and DuraAce are the same, as are Centaur and Ultegra, etc., on down the line. Not all Campy is made in Italy and not all Shimano is made in Japan. Both use Taiwan to produce the low end of their lines. And Campy uses a graphite fabricator in Taiwan to make their newest graphite crankset. So things are getting a bit distorted in all respects with these two companies. Wouldn't surprise me to find out the at the majority of Campy's new electronic shift group is also made in Taiwan. And the price difference between the new 10-speed DuraAce and the Record 10-speed will probably be zero. We will know shortly.

All this said, I prefer Campy. At least I can repair a part that breaks or is worn out without having to replace the entire derailleur, shifter, etc.

If you buy Campy(which is nice) never go to Europe, Italy in particular, or you will see how much of a premium you paid. For some reason there is an export tariff Italy puts on items shipped off continent. Please correct me on this if I am wrong, but I have had Italian and European customers comment on it before. Even had a kid who spent the summer in Italy training show up with a new, Full Record Colnago he paid sixteenhundred US for, SIXTEEENHUNDRED.

jiminy christmas,
might as well vacation in Italy, buy a sweet bike, and head home. Sounds like the savings would cover a big chunk of the trip.

Yep, it's true.

I ordered my Record components from an overseas distributor, and while I can't say that I could have put it on a colnago and had it all cost only 1600, I spend for my Record about what Ultegra goes for here in the states.

All I can say is shop around folks... I mean really shop around, and you can get you're stuff for cheaper than you think.

And on another note: Although the entry price for high-end Campy can seem steep, I've been racing and training hard on the same Record 10 speed grouppo for three years now, ever since I started riding. It still works fantastically. I broke the rear derailer face plate in a crash one time, but the replacement part was available for around $35 - Not bad.

And a bit of truth: The reson for that saying "Shimano wears out, Campy wears in," has to do with the fact that in their high-end groups, Campy parts are manufactured to tighter tollerences than Shimano parts, and thus don't get as sloppy and rickety with lots of use.

- Maurizio

...wow I have a lot of typoes in there.

OK, I'll chime in - why not. I've raced and ridden on Shimano MTB stuff for about 15 years, and about 8 years back I got a 105 Grouppo on a road bike. I always thought people were kind of hard on Shimano; with all the abuse MTB stuff takes, I was always impressed with Shimano - even LX stuff is good. But when I upgraded by road bike to Campy Athena (the last year it was made) a few years ago - I was blown away be the quality of Campy stuff. I just rode on it today, and it's great stuff.

Now here's a stumper - does anyone remember the name of Campy's MTB group they tried out for one year about 10 years back? I'd love to see some of those parts close up sometime.

Originally posted by Maurizio
...wow I have a lot of typoes in there.

lol!! In here too!!:lol: :lol:

Sorry, I had to! :D

Originally posted by late
might as well vacation in Italy, buy a sweet bike, and head home. Sounds like the savings would cover a big chunk of the trip.

That's what I did for my Sidi shoes. However, I didn't have to pay for the trip since it was a business trip.

Originally posted by dpvwia

Now here's a stumper - does anyone remember the name of Campy's MTB group they tried out for one year about 10 years back? I'd love to see some of those parts close up sometime.

Wasn't it Centaur? It came with the option of the "bullet" twist-shifter. I have an old MTB book which states that it was going to be the wave of the future.

Well I'm not the qualified expert here on Campy or Shimano since my road bike uses neither; but my LBS friend who is also a mechanic and shop owner says that Campy in the long run is cheaper. Why? Because Campy will last longer PLUS Campy has more small parts available to actually repair a larger part whereas with Shimano your going to have to buy a new large part-most of the time. And he proved the parts issue to me by showing the parts listings to me and the Shimano took up one side of a page while the Campy took up 2 full pages.

Don't take my word about the parts issue, just go down to your LBS and ask to see the parts manuels for both, then draw your own conclusions.

Also take a gander at this web site, please note this is just one bike shops opinion and it may be too general: http://www.bikyle.com/ Below is a repair chart taken from that web site.

Info on Campagnolo Groups ~

Mirage = base group
9 speed rear cassette, composite brake levers and brake body, zinc-chrome plated cogs, light alloy cassette body, option for double or triple chainrings, dual-pivot brakes.

Veloce = step up
Lighter, anodized alloy brake levers, alloy bottom bracket cups, lighter, nickel-chrome plated cogs, lighter dual-pivot brakes.

Centaur = next step up
Formerly called Daytona, but a name change was required because of a trademark infringement. Centaur features a lighter shift/brake lever combo, 1/4 lb lighter Record-style hubs, 9 or 10 speed options on same hubs, lighter nickel-chrome cog sets mounted on single carrier, 11 gram lighter bottom bracket with hollow spindle, orbital adjustment brake pads for easy pad alignment, included cromoly seatpost. Option for 9 or 10 speed drive train.

Chorus = next step up
Ball-bearing shifter pivots for lighter effort and increased durability, 1 ball-bearing pivot on brake calipers, slightly lighter front and rear hubs , 68 gram lighter and stiffer bottom bracket spindle, lower profile crank for tighter Q factor, floating-link action chain with Teflon finish for less friction and more durability. Includes titanium seatpost and precision ground headset. Option for 9 or 10 speed drive train. New in 2001 - option on rear brake for dual pivot or new single pivot that is 60 grams lighter.

Record = the very best
Carbon fiber brake levers that are 23 grams lighter, carbon fiber seatpost, 22 gram lighter rear derailleur with titanium pivot and carbon outer plate, 25 gram lighter brakes with titanium hardware, full ball bearing pivots on brake calipers, lubrication ports on hubs, lighter quick-release skewers, lighter hollow bottom bracket axle with carbon fiber bottom bracket inner sleeve, lighter steel and titanium cogset with optional all-titanium cogset. Option for 9 0r 10 speed drivechain. The rear brake is a single pivot design that is 60 grams lighter in addition to generating greater braking control.

Mileage Expectations ~

In our experience, you can expect roughly the following mileages on your Campagnolo group before you need to start replacing primary parts. High stress areas such as brake pads, chains, cassettes, headsets, shifter springs, and bottom brackets will need to be replaced more frequently. Items like brake calipers and cranks may need replacing less frequently. Please consider these numbers as rough guides, an experienced Campagnolo mechanic can evaluate your equipment much more accurately.

Mirage = 8,000 miles

Veloce = 18,000 miles

Daytona = 30,000 miles

Chorus = 40,000 miles

Record = 50,000 miles

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Shimano Road Groups ~

Sora = base group:

New in 2000. 8 speed rear with option of double or triple chainring, adjustable reach on brake levers, dual-pivot brakes, nickel plated steel cogs

Tiagra = next step up:

New in 2000. 9 speed rear, alloy quick release skewers, alloy large chainring, anodized hubs with labyrinth seals.

105 = next step up:

Cold forged and polished hubs with better bearings, 60 grams lighter bottom bracket spindle, forged hollow cranks, all alloy chainrings, forged alloy brake calipers with thrust bearing pivots, 30 grams lighter brake/shift levers, 30 grams lighter front derailleur and 40 grams lighter rear derailleur.

Ultegra = next step up:

Nickel plated outer links on chain, 20 grams lighter chrome plated cassette cogs, better hub bearings, 20 gram lighter front hub, 30 gram lighter bottom bracket, 20 gram lighter crank, 20 gram lighter brake/shift levers, 20 gram lighter brake calipers.

Dura-Ace = Shimano's best:

All nickel plated chain, 50 grams lighter nickel plated steel cogs and 4 titanium cogs, titanium cassette body, 35 gram lighter rear hub, 20 gram lighter front hub, better hub bearings, 50 grams lighter bottom bracket, 45 gram lighter crank, 20 gram lighter brake calipers with thrust bearing pivots, 57 gram lighter shift/brake levers with shorter throw and firmer hand action, all aluminum front derailleur, 20 gram lighter rear derailleur with fluorine coated pivot pins. Unlike the other Shimano road groups, Dura-Ace has no triple option.

Mileage Expectations ~
In our experience, you can expect roughly the following mileages on your Shimano road group before you need to start replacing primary parts. High stress areas such as brake pads, chains, cassettes, headsets, shifter springs, and bottom brackets will need to be replaced more frequently. Items like brake calipers and cranks may need replacing less frequently. Please consider these numbers as rough guides; an experienced bicycle mechanic can evaluate your equipment much more accurately.

Dura Ace = 20,000

Ultegra = 10,000

105 = 6,000

Tiagra = 3,500

Sora = 2,500

MMMM In their experience....... does'nt seem to fit with reality. Although Campy does seem to last longer IME I would'nt put it at 2.5 time on average per equivalent group.
I still have 105 hubs from 1991 running strong. Only Freehubs and axle was replaced to facilitate move to 8/9speed compatible freehub.

Shimano is excellent stuff. Brillaint value for money

Originally posted by Maurizio
Yep, it's true.

I ordered my Record components from an overseas distributor, and while I can't say that I could have put it on a colnago and had it all cost only 1600, I spend for my Record about what Ultegra goes for here in the states.

All I can say is shop around folks... I mean really shop around, and you can get you're stuff for cheaper than you think.



would you mnd giving us contact info for that distributor?

- btw- the euro has been climbing against the dollar, so these deals may end up going away.

You can check out totalcycling, the record group is $1023, chorus is $651 and centaur is $465.. only thing is you might have problems with warranty doing it this way.

without getting into the whole Shimano vs campy thing:

Shimano Campy
105 veloce
ultegra centaur
Dura Ace chorus
none record

at least thats my take on it.

Marty

Now that Dura-Ace is going to be 10 speed with the 2 piece crank/bb maybe it will be considered level with Record as far as performance (Sorry but Campy is way more beautiful)... but you know Campy is coming out with electronic shifting. Shimano won't be far behind I'm sure.

Record is on it's own out their right now, just simple because it is same as chorus basicaly just prettier and slightly lighter.

Has anyone really tried them out extensively. I have had Veloce for a few years and 105 for a few years. The superiority of the 105 is incredible over the Veloce. Simply not a contest. To equate these two is horrible. I don't really think you can equate the groups between Campy and Shimano like that. I feel 105 is better then Veloce, but Centaur/Daytona is a little step up. Ultegra is better than Centaur/Daytona, but slightly under Chorus. I think Chorus and DuraAce comparison is closer and can be compared. Of course, Record with it's carbon bits does stand by itself some.

I have used many of these groups and this is based on my experience. YMMV.

I must admit that I prefer Shimano to Campy, but not because it is superior. I feel they both make great products. I've used many of them. I just prefer the Shimano shifting, that is a personal choice.

As for Froze's mileage figures, that is some of the most ridiculous stats ever seen. That means most Shimano road groups fall apart after one or two years, which is total BS. To say that 105 lasts only 6000 miles is crazy. or that Tiagra or Sora can only make it about a year is also crazy. Just my opinion.