Training & Nutrition - How strict are you with your diet?

OKay...my diet lasted me 5 days before i veared off and ate a large dinner at 11pm.

How often do you vear off your diet and revert back to the unhealthy food?

Hi,
not very. Today we stopped mid ride and I had a snack of a pint of skim milk.....and a chocolate croissant.....and a Mocha Fria (think coffee milkshake).
Yesterday I had some candy while watching 'Bend it like Beckham'. I think there are some tricks to dieting. One is to have a good breakfast. Another is to eat lots of fruit and veggies, and when I say lots, I mean LOTS. Have some fruit, salad or at least some fiber pills before dinner.I usually do two, and occasionally do all three. If you want a late nite snack, have something protein. Try to make the snack as low in fat and carbs as possible. A piece of chicken or fish is good. But try very hard not to pig out after dinner. Most of the time you need to have an idea of what your body needs. Give that, and just that, and you'll lose weight. One other trick is that the easier an exercise is; the higher the proportion of fat that gets burned. A long easy ride is a real fat burner. If you think of this as a healthy lifestyle, the expectations will be more realistic.

One idea is to bike so much you are not home enough to snack. One way to stay out of the refrigerator. Often the case when home on days.
I really do not do too badly at home..It is when I am on midnight shift at work and the dam snack vending machine. I would make it easier on myself if I followed the pattern of having lots of vegetables and fruit on hand over depending upon the snack machine.

Originally posted by cyclezealot
One idea is to bike so much you are not home enough to snack. One way to stay out of the refrigerator. Often the case when home on days.

Wouldn't work with me because I'd just buy more food when I was out. However, I find most of my snacks to be of the healthy variety in any case. Fruit in particular (there's nothing in the world like stone fruit or grapes from Stanthorpe).

I really think people go overboard with the whole diet thing anyway. They generally end up with something they're never going to be able to stick to. If you love donuts, then you love donuts - you'll never be able to cut them out altogether, so don't bother trying. Just concentrate on being disciplined with how much you eat in terms of unhealthy things you love.

After all, there's no harm in eating greasy things in moderation.

Your posts seem to indicate a lot of problems with cravings,low energy and not being able to stick to your diet.As I recall you try to eliminate fats and keep carbs low as well.This strategy will result in a low calorie diet which works for some with a lot of weight to lose and only low/moderate activity levels.As I understand you weight train 5days /week and are starting a cardiovascular program.This is anything but a low activity level.I would suggest you experiment with adding in a few "essential" fats (ie unsaturated) and/or upping the complex carb level somewhat during high activity periods such as before weight training at high intensity.
But to answer your question I am very disciplined on my diet when I am off my bike however on long bike rides I eat things though while still healthy in moderation I would never eat otherwise.The key was I originally developed my diet for weight training and only moderate cycling but as I increased my cycling I had to adjust my diet significantly at those times.Also while I don't many people beginning a new diet/eating plan will build in a cheat day once per week to eat anything they want.

I don't "diet" - haven't done so in years and years. When I used to diet in my late teens, I usually ended up gaining weight or losing it extremely slowly.

I've eaten what I wanted to eat for about 15 years now and I'm in much better shape than I was in my late teens and early 20s.

The trick is not so much to eat a strict diet, but rather to exercise more. As I began exercising more, the weight dropped off . . . as the weight dropped off, I began craving good foods more (salads, veggies, chicken, etc. rather than junk food). In fact, now when I crave something, I know my body needs whatever it is. For example - I rarely eat red meat and haven't in years. However, the day after a brevet, I crave red meat. I suspect I'm quite depeleted in something which is in red meat so I eat it for one meal, and I'm fine after that.

The real benefit of exercising more is that you can eat more and therefore you aren't going hungry. One of the biggest things that causes people to "slip up" on their diets and eat a large meal or something is that they feel hungry most of the time while on the diet. I burn about 1800 calories a day just sitting here in front of the computer. When I get on the bicycle I burn about 500 calories per hour. Therefore when I spend an average of about 3 hours a day on the bicycle during the summer, I'm burning in total about 3300 calories. It isn't easy to eat 3300 calories a day!! I'm quite full after about 2500 calories a day, so I end up losing weight in the summers . . . and I feel comfortable doing so - I'm eating lots of food, and I'm getting outside and riding my bicycle which is something I love doing.

So you might want to consider upping the amount of exercise you do . . . then you can have those big meals once in a while and you'll be fine.

Thats right, dieting just doesn't work. You have to change yourself to the point that other things and activities interest you enough that food goes back to being normal......in importance.

With cars and TVs that's hard to do for some people.....

Also, food is so "social" and always has been. Right from the earliest records people got together to transact business, to celebrate, to mourn, to show friendship, etc. etc. and the fundemental ingredient at all these get-togethers is food. Almost every culture places a great deal of importance on food, and it's really hard to get away from that. Unfortunately that has been ingrained in us so deeply that when situations come up where we transact business, celebrate, mourn, get together as friends, etc. etc. we eat (or we want to eat). Equally unfortunate is the quality of food at many these "events" (think Christmas at Grandma's house!! :D).

All this makes it very difficult for those who want to lose weight to stick to any kind of "healthy eating habit" (I'll say that rather than "diet"). It's a lot easier to stick to a "healthy eating habit" if we think of food as simply what it is . . . fuel. I'll eat 'X' amount of calories in order to keep my body going for the next 2 hours sitting at my desk, and then I'll eat 'X' amount of calories to keep my body going while I ride my bicycle, and so on. Quite frankly, I'd be thrilled if someone would come up with a pill I could take that would provide me with 250 or 500 or 1000 calories. I'd take the pill at appropriate times in the day and be done with it - I hate the whole preparing and eating food thing. However, I also know that most people don't feel the same way, and I also know that it is very difficult for some people to simply think of food as fuel.

That said . . . there is chocolate which seems to "call" me . . . :D

My diet is based on ethics, so it makes it very easy to stay with it. Just happens that not eating animal products is extremely healthy for me as well. I don't think I could stay this strict on any diet if it were just for myself, although I really don't like putting crap into my body.

I dont eat a reg planned diet as such,Im doing well anymore just to maintain weight....having a binge meal once in awhile doesnt seem to change anything unless its something that does'nt digest quickly like a couple cheeseburgers fries etc.....that makes it hard to ride the next day.Thats something ive learned,if you exercise enough,eating unhealthy foods wont work cause they just dont digest quick enough to replenish the glycogen stores in your body and you suffer because of it.Try upping your exercise level a little at a time....you will reach a point where your cravings and urge to eat more than you need will diminish.Exercise is a wonderful appetite regulator.The other thing I dont do is snack,or eat "powerbars" or junk like that while riding....at 300cals/each they are a joke,better to eat a few bananas or apples or something and drink a bunch of water,that usually will make your tummy happy and full.Granted I am an extreme example as far as riding goes at 6hrs/day in the saddle 5+ days/wk.Fact is,get enough exercise,and getting enough food becomes more of a problem than staying away from it.....in either case a little moderation and common sense usually helps.No matter how you approach it,either thru diet or exercise or a combo of both,its still a lifestyle change,and you have to stick with it or it wont work.I chose the exercise route,its alot easier to maintain.

I've been doing Weight Watchers for about 8 months now. I have stuck to it very well, with an occassional detour. If I do fall of the wagon I usually feel pretty guilty and go back on the next day. One day generally won't make much difference. The best thing about Weight Watchers is they take in activity. So I can use my daily allotment of food on all healthy stuff. Figure out how much extra I can eat from working out and use it on nothing but junk. Like you said about donuts, if I do 30 minutes of intervals with a warm up and cool down before breakfast, I earn enough to eat a donut. I also have the rest of the day to do things that get me extra food. BTW I went from 267 and I'm now 184, with a goal of 180. I'm just below 6'4"

Congratulations on the weight loss!

i have a hard time getting enough food! lol
working takes up a large portion of my day.. today was 15 hours.. and cycling, running the rest.. with 5 hours sleep. i know not good odds but i am used to it.
i am always hungry. if i don't eat food before bedtime i wake up at 3 starving :( protein is a good snack.. have lots of veggies during the day with protein.. and mmmmmmmmm cantaloupe if i am craving sugars.(something i am trying to cut back on)
frozen grapes for a summer treat is really good for staving off cravings, also club soda(low sodium) with a shot of orange juice is yummy.

The key is to watch calories and to exercise. You can try all sorts of different carb/protien/fat ratios, but what it comes down to is eating things that are healthy AND things that you like but keeping them within a certain daily caloric intake. I was eating around 2800 calories a day. I dropped it to 2250 with biking increases and lost 9 pounds in 3 weeks and now I can eat 2500 to 2800 calories a day and still maintain my weight. I do ride about 140 miles a week to boot.

Another key to making a diet work is to allow yourself certain treats. If you deprive yourself of foods that you like completely you will eventually break and binge. You just have to fit the things you like into your calorie schedule. Try tracking your calories for a month. Once you've done that it becomes second nature and you begin to eat more consistently.

Originally posted by Chris L
moderation.

People just don't know that word in the states.

God, I wish I had Julici's problem. What that is an overactive metabolism for overactive life styles. that keeps you fit and trim as long as you do not wear out.
Where I am active and work ungodly hours, I do not have an overactive metabolism and I tend to get heavy if I do not force exercise.
I used to love to run because it allowed me to eat all I could and stay thin.. Biking fortunately takes more time, so to keep the weight under control, I have to be out for long rides of which I deeply appreciate.
But, I am within days of my shoulder surgery. That will keep me off the bike for probably two months, I am told; minus sneaking a ride on the trainer, when I am ready.
So god grant me the ability to not binge at the refrigerator during my month of being home bound.

stay strong zealot. I will pray for your speedy recovery.

Thanks crack an fail.. Not sure What I am in for. People who have had the surgery says Percadan helps you to get through first few days. I am on the bike in this condition. I will be again, soon.
Appreciate the concern and prayers.
I have a T shirt. Bike on the front and Crash on the back.
Ran into a cyclist on the Oceanside bike path yesterday. This guy is known as a real racer type. Was barreling down a hill in Oceanside a couple months ago at about 60 mph. Said his chain somehow wrapped about his rear wheel immediately freezing it up. He had a broken rib, punctured lung, broken collar bone. He was on a recumbent. So I guess mine is nothing. Two persons form work had this surgery, one from weight lifting and the other from raquetball. Playing too hard. So biking alone is not the only cause of this injury.
Lesson to me, constantly keep bike fit and don't go down hills about nearly 60 mph. Causes you to reevaluate how you ride. But this person has ridden across the US like 4 times. That kind of mileage something happens, just same as in a car.
So now to stock up on lots of fruit for the next 30 days and be ready for my September tour.. No cake please.

Ah... Oceanside. Isn't that just north of San Diego? I worked out in San Diego for a couple of summers and used to do an out and back ride up to Oceanside on my days off. Gorgeuous up there.

Yes, Crack and Fail.. Oceanside is the north end of San Diego county.. Riding on the coast in summer is great riding. Cool ocean breeze on warm summer day....

I can eat anything, but one or two day before I do a big ride i would Carbo Load, as for gaining weight my winter time weight would be 165 lbs, now I am down to 155, this will still go down to 145 lbs.

I can tend to be very strict, but I also know if I'm craving something, just have it, because the longer I crave it and the more I fight it, the more likely I am to go off the diet and binge on the food I want.... The idea is to be able to eat in moderation, which is something a lot of us don't do.

Have your cake and eat it too, but have it in moderation just every so often, and in small portions.

I've been trying to really watch what I eat since Feb 2002 (16 mo. ago) and got interested into low carbing, but progress was fairly slow until I really dived into a cyclical ketogenic diet (very low carb in week days, carb ups in weekend).
The weekend functioned more or less as the time when I allowed myself to eat what I liked.
Trouble was: too few carbs in weekdays, too many in weekend and lethargy as well as too much weight gain was a result.
Switched to a bit more carbs in weekdays but still had 1 cheat day/week.

Depending on activity level, I ingest more carbs.

I had a very bad day on Friday, as I had to come sober to the hospital to have blood drawn. Since I've started dieting seriously, I've barely ever missed breakfat (eat 6x/day). I had to go back home (it's 2x 10 km) to fetch a missing card and luckily I could go to a place in my own town to get the works done.

This time my breakfast contained a bit too much sugar and 1,5 hrs later my blood sugar level must have crashed or something, as when I was shopping for my Saturday junk food (ice cream), I grabbed 2 huge puff pastries filled with cream and smothered in chocolate..
At home I ate those in a very short time, first one was gone in moments, but at least savoured the 2nd one.

I already decided on the spot to change my cheat day from Sat to Fri, but the result was that I felt nauseous most of the day. I managed to get a 3 pm dinner in, but after another blood withdrawal at 4.30 pm, I couldn't eat until 10pm by which time I decided that I'd better increase my total cal intake to highish levels in order to get a decent carb up and ate the whole 1 L carton of ice cream

Next morning my weight had plummeted a kg, prob dehydration, but also loss of fat.. go figure.

Ivana, been on 'the tracks' ever since.

9 am breakfast: 3 eggs with ham
10.30 am WO drink: 50 g whey , 50 g honey
noon post WO: 50 g whey , 50 g honey (I alternate between honey and maltodextrin with a bit of cordial for taste)
3 pm: 1 hamburger (no bun of course), home-made veggie drink of several vegetables (celery, fennel, bell pepper, tomatoes)
6 pm: same as 3 pm (now a bit different, with chicorey and STRAWBERRIES!)
9 pm: sardines with half a zucchini, mushrooms, 3 eggs & cheese (ate half now)
1 am: half of 9 pm dinner and off to bed...

I've been a bad girl lately with veggies and am now making up for it..

Normally I also eat quark (thicker than yoghurt, smoother than cottage cheese, 7.5-11 g of protein/100 g product) to which I tend to add cream as it is a non-fat version. I also have started leaving out cheese, so this is unusual by now and quite often snack on pistachio nuts at night.
But now I had prepared a biggish evening meal with sardines and eggs so i split it in half...

Giving you insight in one of my typical low-carb days (with lots of carbs during and after workout, it is a HST training method that I've adopted).

Ivana By my count thats 7 meals not 6.And it seems like a lot of calories for a weight loss plan.Have you tried to estimate the actual calories you consume vs. expend in a typical day.I suggest you eliminate the late night meal and spread the rest out somewhat more.Also in spite of the low carbing it sounds like you have somewhat of a sweet tooth still. I know you can get away with simple carbs before and after workouts but I would still suggest you go with more complex carbs when you add them in.Oatmeal is very good for preworkout energy and I use it postworkout as well in spite of the simple carb window.In fact if I am in a fatburning mode I will often wait an hour or two after my workout to carb up to enhance postworkout fat burning.P.S. I see now you split meal 6 in half but still you probably eat as many calories as I do on a weight training day and I am trying to gain weight.

Originally posted by RWTD
Ivana By my count thats 7 meals not 6.And it seems like a lot of calories for a weight loss plan.Have you tried to estimate the actual calories you consume vs. expend in a typical day.I suggest you eliminate the late night meal and spread the rest out somewhat more.Also in spite of the low carbing it sounds like you have somewhat of a sweet tooth still. I know you can get away with simple carbs before and after workouts but I would still suggest you go with more complex carbs when you add them in.Oatmeal is very good for preworkout energy and I use it postworkout as well in spite of the simple carb window.In fact if I am in a fatburning mode I will often wait an hour or two after my workout to carb up to enhance postworkout fat burning.P.S. I see now you split meal 6 in half but still you probably eat as many calories as I do on a weight training day and I am trying to gain weight.

Yikes!

I look at that plan Ivana posted, and I also know how much she exercises, and I would totally disagree- if anything, I think she may need to add some more calories onto her plan, but do limit your eating to not having food after 8:30- 9 PM.

Ivana is lifting very heavy, plus she does a lot of riding.... I mean A LOT of riding. She can afford to add in a few more calories to get her metabolism going.

Ivana, since you've been doing this for a while, if you haven't been losing weight as much as you've thought you would, take the time to evaluate your diet. If you are losing too slowly, it could be because you aren't feeding your body enough for the amount of physical activity you do, which slows the metabolism, which means you actually won't be losing fat, since the body thinks it will need that fat to provide the energy you need to do the activities in the first place. You'll be caught in a Catch-22 diet hell until you figure out how to get out of that one.

PM me sometime and let's go over what you're doing vs. what you're eating....

Koff

If you think she's lifting heavy look at the weights she posted in the weightlifting thread.On a day she is only doing an hour or less I am assuming of weights and if she is doing alot of riding on other days I don't think loading up on protein and fat is going to help her store energy for those rides except in the form of fat.Maybe her calories are more in line with her activity than I think as I didn't actually count them it just seems high to me and she has indicated slow progress on fat loss.I do eat more calories than that if I am cycling but not on days I am weight training mostly when in a fat loss mode.
If she has been gaining muscle while losing fat all this time I would think she would have noticed by now but you make a good point on not focusing on scales I don't ever use them .It sounds to me like she is probably gaining some muscle but making slow if any progress on fat loss.Maybe that has changed recently but if it hasn't it sounds like the level of calories not the level of exercise tht is the problem.Note though I am basing this on her weight days diet.It would be interesting to see her endurance days diet as what you mention could well be the problem there if she doesn't up the calories from this level.However in the past she has commented about not losing weight in spite of the endurance because her appetite spikes and she eats an enormous amount of food.

Ik think you might have been right.. as a repercussion (?) I was not hungry at all today. I'm not really extreme low-carbing anymore, but incorporate fruits again.

Today I ate

- 300 g of cherries for breakfast
- 2 eggs, mushrooms & ham for lunch
- half a carton of quark and half a mango at 6 pm
- other half at 9 pm

and I still wasn't hungry.. I used to try and keep intake equal on most days, now i try to go by feeling.. prob this was as a result of having been nauseous most of Friday.

Ivana

I assume you had a fairly low activity day today.Fruits along with vegis are good choices for simple carbs much better than some you mentioned binging on.I think it is smart to adjust your diet to activity level which if you go by feel you will tend to do.Still when storing energy for high activity (endurance)you might consider adding in some complex carbs such as oatmeal/brown rice.By using fruits/vegis/complex carbs smartly you will be less likely to binge on refined sugars.

Still concerned about Ivana's calories- not enough to burn the fat.

Again, I emphasize if you're not eating enough calories for all the exercise you are doing, you will not be trimming your body's fat- your body needs fat for energy, and if you deprive yourself of the necessary amount of nutrients you need, you end up starving your body, so your body will hang onto the fat rather than use it for energy. That's why I said it's a catch-22. You don't eat enough calories for the exercise, the body responds by retaining the fat, the person exercises more because they don't see weight loss, the body responds by hanging onto that fat even more, since it needs it for the increased exertion, then the person restricts the diet or exercises even more, which leads the body to hold onto the fat even tighter.... etc. etc. etc.

I agree- more complex carbs are needed, more fiber wouldn't hurt either... more fruits and veggies would be nice to add to her diet also. But I do think she would need to boost her metabolism by adding more calories to her diet...

In her other thread she said she was not doing the endurance this month but only weight training three times/wk ,spinning twice and one 75 mile ride.What she appears to be trying to do is adjust her calories to her activity level which I agree with.So I agree before/during her 75 mile ride she would need to take in more calories preferably a few more complex carbs.
But really what I think she needs to do is define more specifically what her objective really is and focus on it (both training and diet)rather than try to achieve multiple objectives at once.In the past she has tried to add strength while lowcarbing to lose weight.And if she was limiting calories while doing the endurance cycling like you say that to would be a mistake because it would create too high a calorie deficit.Now if she is going for hypertrophy/muscle or strength she will need a surplus calorie diet to achieve any results but will likely add some bodyfat in the process.If on the other hand she currently wants to focus on fat loss she needs a slight to moderate deficit and less focus on size /strength.

Originally posted by Chris L


I really think people go overboard with the whole diet thing anyway. They generally end up with something they're never going to be able to stick to. If you love donuts, then you love donuts - you'll never be able to cut them out altogether, so don't bother trying. Just concentrate on being disciplined with how much you eat in terms of unhealthy things you love.

After all, there's no harm in eating greasy things in moderation.

I think similarly.
Our organism has natural mechanisms that will limit taking harmfull food through rejecting it by taste or , worse, later on after eating it...
So, it's perfectly fine to eat WHATEVER person wants, in WHICHEVER quantenties.

Person will not want to eat more when it may become harmful.

Originally posted by RWTD
In her other thread she said she was not doing the endurance this month but only weight training three times/wk ,spinning twice and one 75 mile ride.What she appears to be trying to do is adjust her calories to her activity level which I agree with.So I agree before/during her 75 mile ride she would need to take in more calories preferably a few more complex carbs.
But really what I think she needs to do is define more specifically what her objective really is and focus on it (both training and diet)rather than try to achieve multiple objectives at once.In the past she has tried to add strength while lowcarbing to lose weight.And if she was limiting calories while doing the endurance cycling like you say that to would be a mistake because it would create too high a calorie deficit.Now if she is going for hypertrophy/muscle or strength she will need a surplus calorie diet to achieve any results but will likely add some bodyfat in the process.If on the other hand she currently wants to focus on fat loss she needs a slight to moderate deficit and less focus on size /strength.

Why is it so easy to decide for other people what they should or should not eat and not for yourself ;)

I've been strictly low-carbing since early October thru Jan when I was mostly lifting weights and doing moderate cardio.
Increased carb intake dramatically for the long rides and now I'm done with them, I am going back to low-carbing again.

In the past I'd habitually forget eating enough DURING rides and as a result become too weak for sustained efforts and THEN raid the fridge a few days later.. now I try to keep eating throughout long rides, and yes, I now consider eating and drinking enough a more daunting task than doing the actual ride (OK, for 600K tiredness and soreness is important too). As a result I'm only feeling very hungry the same day and the next day.. that's a very good improvement I think.. weight loss is also insignificant during those rides, unless I'm getting dehydrated.

I just need to find the amt of carbs I do well on. I no longer adhere to ketodiets, as it is too little for the exercise I do.
But I've been told to try eating a Paleolithic diet, which involves cutting out the grains and eating less dairy foods. Cut out as much high-carb foods as possible, including starchy complex carbs. Some are OK, it seems for instance that sweet potatoes are a favourite food item among health-conscious people.

I do find it difficult to not eat dairy. I'm very fond of it and it is a good protein source. However, I have to avoid lactose.
The quark I eat for instance is OK as long as I drain the fluid.. if I don't I build up mucus in a very short period of time! Apparently the lactose is predominantly in the fluid part. So, milk is definitely out!

Fruit is OK esp. since it contains very valuable micro-nutrients. I am trying to increase my veggie-intake as well, which is at times difficult since I'm such a lazy cook. Veggie drinks apparently work well.

Yes, I did virtually nothing all day long on Sunday except for 1 relaxed 25 K ride. Oh, um I do have a new bf though ;).. might explain the 1 kg loss? Today I still don't feel hungry.. I had planned a longish ride, but I've not been sleeping well lately and decided to sleep in.

In July I will be cycle-touring for a month and then I expect to increase carb intake again.

PS: for more info on the Paleolithic diet, see e.g. http://www.paleodiet.com/

I am familiar with the paleo diet and there is nothing wrong with it unless you have a very high activity level in which case unrefined grains are the best source of replentishing glycogen stores which important for endurance.Keep in mind the maltodextrin you use is refined corn starch. With grains the key is to use them wisely to fill but not overfill yr glycogen stores or they are stored as fat.This requires you to vary your grain intake based on your activity level.I try to avoid refined sugar altogether though occasionally use it on long bike rides and keep protein and fat somewhat more constant though I will increase the protein somewhat more whenweight training and the fat more when endurance riding.And Koffee makes a good point in not going to low in calories when active.On my original comment I thought you had eaten the entire meal 6 and then half againthat amount for meal7.Too low will be problem as you found out with the endurnce rides where you lose energy to a slowing metabolism.One strategy may be to go for strength now with a decent amount of calories to support it since it sounds like you lost strength with the endurance and then focus on weight loss when touring.From your other thread it sounds you are starting to effectively lose weight now and may have lost some muscle as well.

I guess that I've indeed lost some muscle, or perhaps it's water ?
Difficult to tell. I'm already glad that I can at least measure fat%.

Dieting is incredibly difficult. Too many calories, and you gain weight (muscle/fat depending on your body type), too few calories and you lose more muscle than fat. The right amount of cals makes you stay right where you are, but a slight deficit is the only way to lose weight. This deficit can be either by diet and/or by exercise and preferably by both.

Trouble is, everyone's maintenance level is different and of course also very much depending on activity level and age. Finding out how much you should eat to lose just a little bit at the time is not easy. It would require you, to monitor your food intake every single day, which I've done for a few months, but proved to be too much of a burden.. so I go by feeling and intuition now.

Ivana

You've got the concept down exactly right and over time by trial and error you discover what and how much your body does best on in each situation.As for the glycogen I can tell by how full my muscles feel and look how topped up they are with glycogen/carbs.

Well, if it would all be just rational, things would be easy. Whenever I get off the track and eat carbs later in the day or miss breakfast (like last Friday), I get into carb cravings or sugar coma and lose control.. that's why I try to keep my carb intake as low as possible, without losing too much glycogen.
With my new training that's a bit difficult I found out when I was through my glycogen halfway the workout.. my whey-drink with fast-acting carbs saved me from bonking.

Ivana

Thats why you should avoid sugar as much as possible .It creates a vicious cycle of cravings and energy swings causing loss of control over diet and weight gain.The worst are products high in refined sugar and refined(hydrogenated)fats.With more bland complex carbs like oatmeal/brown rice you can top stores with less insulin spike .Also always combining the complex carbs with some protein and fat reduces the spikes and cravings.To me eating this way I stay in total control. This is not the case with refined sugar products or refined carb/fat products so I try to totally avoid them except sometimes during intense exrise were insulin response is somewhat blunted and I want to go fast.

just an update for you all......

ive been on my "regulated" diet for the past 3 weeks now and things are going smoothly. So far with excercise, ive lost about 6 lbs.